This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

:cheesy:

No wonder i adore you!!! Works even better with one of her white dress shirts and no bi-panty involvement.

Wonderful!!!!! I look forward to seeing it!!!!

I am getting way better. I know to look for shorter shirts, shorter shorts, even though they are long when she wears them. No stripes. And the best shirts i've found are polo ...those rock!!!! And are hot!!!!

Did i mention they are hot?

Looking forward to it... :)

Reconnaissance Shopping
 

I would say this is shopping for butches, but the truth is it will work for anyone.

The idea mentioned earlier of wearing someone else's clothes and then trying to replicate the feel of them is pretty good, but I think we can get it even closer.

What I have found works well (and quickly) for me is to measure it out ahead of time. Sizes on labels vary widely and the sad truth is that the more expensive the garment the more likely it is to show a 'vanity' size on the label.

I take an item that I know fits me, or whoever you are shopping for, very well and measure the heck out of it in the places that matter. I measure it as I would find it on the hanger or laid out, this is step one to figure out whether or not it is worth trying on. For more fitted items, I highly recommend going through the hassle of trying on because it is less hassle than returning it later if there is something not quite exactly the way you want it. For more casual maybe less form fitting or made of more relaxed fabrics, this may be enough. Try it yourself and find out. If you are shopping for someone else, I would say get the things that are a little less particular or plan for the possibility of a little tweak at the tailor, which may be needed anyway.

Take down these measurements:

Shirts:

Neck. Really critical if it is to be worn with a tie, otherwise up to 1 inch extra, closer is better for overall hang. Take this measurement with it buttoned all the way up. Applies to other necks as well, crew, vee, polo, etc.

Shoulder seam to seam, the more accurate this is the better the whole thing will look with the understanding that you are working with a known good fit item otherwise things like different sizes of chests and hips can change all that.

Across the bottom of the shirt where the hips will hit. This depends on if it will be worn out or tucked in. If out, it needs to be larger, if tucked you can get away with some spread at the bottom because it will be tucked in.

Sleeve, 4 different measurements here. From shoulder seam to end of cuff, this is a really fast elimination tool if you are looking hanging shirts, if there is no shoulder seam, go with the traditional center of neck to end of cuff, still quick.

For short sleeves, measure that too for a couple of reasons. If you are in a mens section usually they are made for someone generally taller most bio females so the sleeves are longer. If it is a sewn end at the sleeve, it can be hemmed shorter. If you are like me and don't really like showing off your upper arms too much you want to make sure they are long enough, you can't lengthen them. When I was heavier than I am now I also wanted to measure the width of the bottom of the sleeve so that it would not bind, especially on polos, if it is an issue look for sleeves that are not banded.

Overall length, from the base of the neck to the very bottom.

Especially important on things like polo shirts, these can be way too long in mens, it might work better to try women's (it's basically the same thing, although the color choices are different) or, for myself with knit tops I have good luck in the boys area, the overall length and sleeve length work well for my type. And a heck of a lot cheaper too!

I know these lists seem onerous from the outside, but you only have to do it once or whenever you have a size change. It really narrows things down quickly to the most likely candidates.

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Okay, onto pants:

Again, quick on the hanger or table stuff here

Inseam, if it says 32 it probably is. OR, your out thrifting or going vintage and it shrank so now it is really 29 (seriously, Levis 501's shrink 3 inches in length). Think about this when buying new too, will it shrink? What is the real inseam you want? On that note, hemming is a really inexpensive alteration ($12-$14) if you just found some really great wool trousers for $10 in a vintage shop that would be $100 new somewhere.

Rise, how far from the crotch to the waistband? You will probably have 3 different choices, dress pants and trousers, jeans, and shorts or other casual wear.

Waist, side to side. This will be affected by rise, the lower the waist, (shorter rise) on bio women that usually translates into a wider waist size.

Hip, side to side. I usually find the lower pocket attachment point and measure there. If it is too snug there the pocket will usually gap some which means that on dress pants it will show the pocket lining. Big no.

Special note on shorts, be sure to measure the inseam on these too, as with shirt sleeves, if in a mens department they are made for usually taller people. If they are fairly plain they can be hemmed, no big deal. If they are cargo shorts or have other embellishments, deal breaker. Here is a tip I discovered by accident. For cargo shorts with a shorter inseam try marine clothes. No kidding, I guess the yachting set likes their shorts about three inches shorter. They are the perfect length for me, try Marine West or OP.

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So, a couple of other things I do to minimize the pain. Have this list of measurements in your wallet or phone and keep an tape measure in the car. I also have my tailors price list with me. I took a picture of it and keep it in my phone.


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This way, when I am out if I spot a really good deal on something I need (especially thrifting) I can decide if it is still a great deal after I have paid for whatever tweak it needs to make it just right, sleeve shortening on long sleeves that are split is more than short sleeves, maybe you need a little more room at the bottom of a shirt that is going to be tucked in, add a gusset? If you have the price list handy you can see what the total cost will really be. I have damn near everything tweaked a little here or there, but still save a ton of money this way.

Also, go ahead and keep a list of what you need in your wallet or phone. When you are looking in your closet you may think ‘I could really use a dark blue button down’ but when you are in a shop with someone or just passing by it is easy to forget what is really going to fill in the gaps in the wardrobe vs what looks cool right now. I usually have a list of three or four things on hand and it helps me remember to go ahead and look for that thing, both filling the spots and not wasting money on yet another thing that doesn’t go with anything else.

I don’t really care for shopping and this helps take the sting out by getting me real tangible results when I do go. Now that it is written out, it looks like a lot of trouble to go to, it isn’t, it is actually easier. If you are shopping for someone else you will have a much better chance of getting something that will fit right and be really appreciated by the person you are doing it for.

So, fill in the blanks. Tell me your tips and tricks. I’ve probably forgotten a few things and will come back when I remember.

I agree. But, I think that it is less about a person being "butch" and more of a body type. Bio females tend to have various body shapes. Some have curves, while some don't. Men typically don't, but not all butches are shaped like men (minimal hips). I would suggest that when one shops in the men's department for bio females, that their body shape is taken into account, as not just any style will work for every female.

Thanks Kelt, for taking the time to write that out. It's really great when people wear clothes that fit well.

Great thread
 

This company will custom tailor a suit, shirt, slacks, to your specifications.

They also have a fabric sample kit that you can order. Similar to Brooks Brothers quality but without the similar price tag.

Indochino

Leather anyone?
 

This bike jacket is purely fun. On a Harley or off:


Rumble leather

Yes, nothing bothers more than when the shoulder seams do not sit on the top of the shoulder and instead lands past the top of the shoulder moving down the arm. For some reason people never pay attention to this. My clothing pet peeve and something I watch for when buying clothes.

As Gemme said, I am pretty good at holding up a garment to see whether it will "hang right" (as I tend to describe it for some reason). I can fortunately buy off the rack pretty damn easily and don't have to get anything tailored.

"Hanging right" relates to how the neck of the shirt looks, as it can tell me how the entire shirt will look on my frame. If the neck appears to look ok (not too large on both casual and ress shirts), I will typically try the shirt on, just to make sure that it fits across my chest in the way that I deem flattering (i.e. it is not tight against my chest/my chest is not very visible).

Calvin Klein is where I tend to go for all my dress/work clothes. The shirts fit good for my neck, shoulder seam, and arm length. There is a Calvin Klein outlet near the beach where we frequent in the summer, so I just shop there. I also still have about 7 dress shirts that are 8 years old that still looks great from Express. They are perfect in arm length, also.

In terms of dress pants, I can buy right off the rack as well, due to having a more typical male shape. Of course, some styles of dress pants fit better than others, however.

When it comes to casual clothes, I buy various brands. Jeans, I have no problem as long as I get the right style. For cargo shorts, it seems as though they are now making them longer. However, I have found at some places (Old Navy, specifically), you have a choice of longer or shorter cargo shorts. I get the shorter because the longer are too long (and look dumb)since I am only 5'8". I can see how it would be even harder for shorter females who wear men's shorts. I tend to choose short length based on where it falls against my leg...there is a certain range that I believe is most attractive and anything below that just looks dumb/unattractive on me.

No doubt a tuck here and there by a tailor could improve the fit of my clothes, but honestly, that is too much hassle for me for everyday wear. For casual clothing I wouldn't even consider it...I would just pass on the item!

One more thing...dressing rooms...fortunately for the places I buy both my dress and casual clothes (outlets), they have gender neutral dressing rooms. If I was in a regular department store, I would probably find myself bringing a lot more stuff home to try!

Nice discussion! Thanks for the information Kelt.

Shoes
 

and these...

Johnston & Murphy Cap Lace Up

and these

Cole Haan - Air Kilgore Bit

and I need these


Cole Haan Air Giovanni Penny

Hey Belle!

I buy clothes for my Butch!

Jack is mostly able to wear clothing right off the rack with the occasional cuff hem and such for length. She wears men's clothes exclusively.

I will say that fit is not exclusive to gender. People of every gender have to be mindful of body shape. I've seen people of all genders wear things that may not be as suited to their body shape, especially if they are pear-shaped, have a very long torso, very short legs, etc.

Jack is long and lean, but I don't consider (and neither does she) her shape to be "typically male". She's a woman and her body is just long and lean. :)

We've had very good luck with certain brands fitting her body shape better than others. One of the coolest things is that we found that the "George" brand from Wal-Mart actually makes a nice suit pant that fits her almost perfectly. Other brands that we've found that fit her well are Calvin Klein and Hugo Boss. I think these brands have a lot of options with very slim cuts and these seem to suit her shape very well!

WEE!

and then there are boots...
 

Love

Mezlan Bravo

Need these


Harley Davidson Ranger

I hate to shop, so I am lucky that Belle does.
My body type is not easy to shop for, no matter what department.

I love fashion! I even go over to Manhattan during Fashion Week to "outfit watch" with my September Vogue, so this thread is fun.

I work in construction, so during the week my clothes are covered in caulk, glue, paint, schmutz and dreck of various types. Also, I play sports, where loose-fitting clothes with big numbers on the back are required. So when I go out on weekends, I like to wear nice things that fit and look good.

Sometimes when I see other butches at clubs, I get sad/confused. From what they are wearing, I wonder if they are trying to give the impression "Hey, I don't care!" or if they are trying to "dress up" like a manual laborer. I have a problem with both those scenarios: I think it is important to "care". Also, I resent when my livelihood is fetishized/sexualized in that way.

i've wanted for a long time to have my own line of butch clothing. and have the coolest t shirts, like, "i love the slope of a curve". you know, reba mcentire has her own clothes. rob kardashian has his own sock line. socks! there's something else that doesn't always fit me right.