So, does that mean you're going to wait until you have a full beard before you stop using the women's restroom?


Dylan

1. Yes. Some doctors will require you see one before they prescribe T

2. Supposedly, you should go yearly. You don't have to have annual mammograms until you're over 40 (unless you have a family history)

3. Try Planned Parenthood. Or you can ask your endo (whomever you use for your T prescription) to recommend someone or to do it.


Dylan

I can understand your rational to the hate crime statment- To be honest the statistic was written in a pamphlet I received at a trans confrence at Rutgers New Brunswick years ago. Frankly U.S. estimates are so are so mess up its hard to believe any of it. But what your saying about gendered areas seems logical. So I withdraw my previous statment.

MTF being a higher number, that didn't come from the US. In actuality it came from the netherlands. The reason the statistic came out of the netherlands is because they are more socially accepting of transgendered individuals (more accepting not totally accepting- so there is a margin of error) The idea being, that there people are more will to say they are transitioning since there isnt such a social stigma. the last estimate I heard was 1 out of 12000 males are MTF and 1 out of 34000 females are FTM... but I did also hear that gap was closing. and these estimates were taken when I was like 8 years old.

As for the actual being easier with women... I really must live on another planet... Ive been mistaken as a guy Long before testosterone also. And yes some times a girl would point out I was in the wrong bathroom, and I would calmly explain that I was actually biologically female. Never did a girl shudder in fear when I entered the bathroom or run screaming from the room. And there was never a reason for a girl to protect herself when I entered the room. Not once has a security guard or cop ever come knocking on my stall trying to remove me. Never was I shouted at or forcibly removed. Either I just ran into the nicest females in the world or everyone else has the worst luck. Now Im not saying I would ever go back to the female bathrooms. Actually to be honset I'm most comfortable in family bathrooms, best way to go in my opinion- but I digress.

Okay I'll admit the fighting off statment was incredibly sexist. But hypotetically speaking biological females have a disadvantage to biological males- why? because biological male have more speed and strength (more muscles) for hunting dating back to our primitive cave man ansestors, while famale were equipted with extra fatty tissue and the ability to give birth. When on hormones, we in essense exchange what nature gave us for the opposite version (as best as possible since not everything changes). Based on simple deduction, I am probably strong then my equal female counterpart. Now, Im not saying I would EVER over power a girl whether I can or cant. And Im not saying there arent exceptions or that girls are powerless- Im positive that some of my girl friends would beat my ass in for even suggesting such a thing. Im saying T alone would give you the upper hand on a girl over a biological guy if trouble were to start. I never had trouble start. This is all hypotetical. and your right men are most often the perps, and MTF are most often the victims... but there are always execption...

lol. Yea I have a lot of fear. Anxiety issue up the wazoo.

but what I really think is, we are argueing over a toilet here. C'mon. a toilet. seriously. If he doesnt do it out of fear, and does it for the pink motif. Who cares. Is he hurting someone? If not then I dont see the issue. If he does it for shock value, to get a rise out of people, for attention then everyone who decided to make a big deal out of this just handed him everything he wanted... No I dont agree with doing things for attention, but I know attention seekers love it when they are the center of the debate...

I'm just saying.

Uh... you mean those the other, right? Otherwise, that means that FTMs (males) outnumber MTFs (Females).


And that really, to me, was the only issue.


But it does present problems for FTMs. One of the challenges is that I'm viewed as having privilege and then wanting to be part of women's only situations (which a bathroom/locker room fit into). (never mind what the Christian Right uses this stuff for). It, to me, smacks of abusing privilege and beyond.

I really need to work on that part. I've tried it a couple of times only end up with my leg wet. I think my biggest concern is the strength of the stream being too forceful and thus overflowing.

While I disagree with a few other things you've said, this is the largest area in which I disagree with you.

Yeah, it's a bathroom.

Can you tell me, do you think it's ok for cismen to use the women's room too? I mean, should any man be able to use the women's room simply because he 'likes the motif'?

When One decides they're a man...they're a man. They don't get to live with one foot on this side, and one foot on that side. It's incredibly sexist and privileged (in my opinion) to say, "I want that, but I don't want that part of that". You don't get to make women feel uncomfortable, because YOU (general...not personal) are afraid of a bathroom. You (again general, not personal) don't get to soak up the privilege of being male, then trample on women-only space. There's things that suck about being male. You don't get to take the good parts and toss out the bad parts. That's incredibly privileged...and in this case sexist.

Scaring women for your own personal benefit is privileged and sexist.

Making women feel uncomfortable for your own person benefit is privileged and sexist.

Expecting women to accommodate and cater to YOUR (general) fears, wants, needs, etc is the HILT of sexist and privileged.

Expecting women to make room for YOU and coddle YOU is...sexist and privileged

If you're a man, you're a man, and you don't get 'special' privileges/access/whatever, simply because you were born in the wrong body.

ESPECIALLY considering the men's room is actually safer (although, definitely not cleaner).

I just can't imagine allowing ANY other man special entrance into the women's room (the exception being small children, or men with disabilities who need help, and that help tends to be *women*).

Perhaps you have gotten lucky, because I know I've had security called on me a number of times. I've even had a security officer crawl under the stall door to open it and remove me (while I was in the middle of doin' mahhh business) from the restroom. I've had women freak out. I've been lead to the men's room more times than I can even count.

To be quite honest, I truly believe those who make the biggest noise about the men's room, haven't even used the men's room. Because men don't even *look* at you in the men's room.

And to use the women's room, because you just want attention is to me just a complete abuse of privilege...especially when coupled with the statistics and fear of women and rape. It's taking advantage, and it's just the HILT of sexism and an abuse of power. As if men are just allowed to go wherever they want and do whatever they want, and women are just supposed to accommodate and 'understand' and then even CODDLE and soothe the fear of men. It's gross and abusive.

If you're a man, you don't take advantage. You don't make women feel uncomfortable, so you can feel 'safer', or 'get attention', or 'be more comfortable'.

I mean, if you want attention, men will definitely give it to you. If you don't feel safe in X space, find another space. If you want to feel comforted and soothed, you don't just *take* that from women or women's space.

I just cannot imagine another man doing any of these things, or using any of these excuses without having his ass handed to him.


Dylan

P.S. All the 'yous' in this post are completely general...I get tired of saying 'One', because sometimes it comes off sounding sarcastic

The medicine spoon.

Most awesome thing ever.


Definitely Takes Practice, But It's Well Worth The Investment,
Dylan

http://www.whenyagottago.com/products/TravelMate.html

I really like this ...much easier to use because the spoon is more custom for our bodies...

i use to get the u-tube on transitional male but nick doesn't seem to be selling just that any more and also is having health issue so isn't do the stud.

I'm hoping to make my own u-tube using the above product but just need to find the medical tubing and the right glues and then the stuff to put it together.

I don't see what the difference is between this and the medicine spoon?

Not trying to be funny, but I don't understand why I would pay nine dollars when I can get the same thing at Target for free?

I mean, I don't see how this would be any easier to use either. It's still going to take a helluva lot of practice to learn to position this thing properly.


Am I Missing Something?,
Dylan...could have easily missed something

P.S. you can get latex tubing at Home Depot or Lowes. If you use that particular spoon (that you linked to), you can just put the tubing over the end...you don't need glue...and run it through your packer. Should take about 3 seconds. (you can use a dab of caulking if you're really concerned)

bathroom
 

no men don't look at each other in the bathroom unless they are cruising.

and i don't have a pack and pee, i just squat over the bowl. Lots of men sit down to pee, and if you go in the mens room and there are no stall doors, so what? just make sure you don't flop your packer on the floor, and you will be fine.

i started going to the mens room long before i started T. it was always easier. I have been chased out of many womens restrooms, but never out of any mens rooms. Men don't give a rats ass.

i know i care a whole lot less about a lot of things, and especially the bathroom. go in, do my biznitch, and roll out, (and i always wash my hands)


:badcook:

well maybe you get different types of medicine spoons in texas? Everything is bigger right? All I know is it is bevelled differently then the baby spoons i've gotten and this cups in better.

You don't have to buy your medicine spoons???? Surprise they hand something out for free that they sell.

What your suggesting doesn't work ...for a variety reasons .... been there done that.

Hmmm, I haven't used it, so I believe you that's it's different. It just looks the same from the picture. But I'm not arguing with you. Like I said, I haven't used it...or even seen one up close.

Target's pharmacy gives out medicine spoons if you ask. I don't think it's just a Texas thing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Texas has bigger spoons HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What doesn't work? Because it worked for me. So, I don't know what you're referring to. I mean, if you're talking about the latex from Home Depot and such...it worked for me. But I don't know if that's what you're referring to.

Of course, everybody's different...six of one/half dozen...


Maybe We DO Have Bigger Spoons...For All Those Bigger Babies :),
Dylan

Is your tubing harder and clear? That's what I got at Home Depot .... it works ok but the u-tube i bought through transitional male had a softer non clear tubing. So I'm guessing medical grade tubing isn't as stiff as the tubing I bought at home depot unless i was in the wrong aisle.

What doesn't work is if I stick it just on the end either I have to stick the spoon like object through the packy .... which then makes the packy harder to pack because it's stiff or if I insert the tube everything is way too long and I would have to hold the packy outside my pants to pee. If i let the tube kink up i just run into gravity problems.

I don't know there may be different types of spoons and I can't remember what the spoons were like that I had bought but i know that this was contoured just enough that leakage just isn't the issue i've had with the medicine spoon i tried and the spoon Nick uses on the ftm u-tube. All i know is I haven't used one in ages just went to the bathroom using it and it was super simple. Always have struggled with the other devices to the point I always had to take extra underwear and clothes with me and well then i just stopped using it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this or I said it backwards
but if 1 out of 12000 are MTF and 1 out of 34000 are FTM- Then isn't there a 3:1 ratio of MTF:FTM

34000/12000 = 2.8333 rounded to 3 for the sake of the equation

so...
in a group of 34000 people there will be an estimated 3 MTF and 1 FTM.
or did I majorly fuck this up?

lol

Whoa hold on. I'm not saying men, (FTM or not) have the right to do ANYTHING they want because they are men. I simply comment on the fact there is a big issue with this particular gendered area for no ryhme or reason (of course this is my opinion).

I don't find that sexist, because I dont believe its just men. Its of no real consern of mine if a woman does her business in the male restroom or a guy relieves himself in the female bathroom. I'm not going to call security on a female in the mens room- and its not like females have NEVER used the mens room for one reason or another. But that doesn't make the news. Its not news worthy. It doesnt bother men (typically speaking). And thats just what I expect from decent humans beings- women and men. This isnt the right to vote. this isnt asking a female to wipe a guys bottom. He relieved himself in a room which sole purpose is to go to the bathroom. Unless he peed on the counter or committed a random act of violence I dont see the issue. If there was no vandalism or physical harm, then I think we are over-reacting.

By the way, saying that a woman has the right to feel safe and not a man can also be sexist. Sexism works both ways here. Forcing someone to use the mens room when it makes them uncomfortable- well its similar to FORCING a one of us (FTM who are comfortable in the mens room) to use the female bathroom- it seems it would make some of us feel incredibly uncomfortable. People have the right to feel safe- men and women alike. Thats not abusive or sexist.

I'm just saying we are arguing that where a person relieves him/her self has become a gender issue because we (as in society) made it an issue. We seperated these rooms- and thats all they are really. They are just rooms with toilets and sinks- its purpose to go to the bathroom and wash our hands. Most of us have ones we our apartment and houses, and we share it with opposite genders just fine. We seperated them and said who can and who can't go in them. Why? Probably out of fear, I don't honestly know, I never did the research. Like I said previsouly, I'm the one all for family bathroom. There is no gender to them, and they save space, time, energy, and money.

Your totally right about the ones making the most noise about the mens room never used it. I am sorry to hear about your bathroom experience. I suppose I have been very lucky. I'm only devils advocate because not too long ago I was freaked about going into the mens room, and I had no indication that I shouldn't be either. Thankfully I have a really great set of friends and an ex girlfriend who helped me. I'm no longer like that, but I can understand it. Frankly, hes not here to defend himself, so none of us know why he was in there or how hes feeling.

And again I'm saying that if he REALLY did this for attention, then he got exactly what he wanted. Because guys like us are sitting around a computer after the fact talking/ debating about it.

http://www.mangoproducts.net/PackAndPee.htm

Its a combo of prosthetics and the medicine spoon. It's my favorite, but it does cost moeny. Like Dylan said why pay if u can get something cheaper and jsut as reliable at Target. I just like the feeling of 'wiping it out' at a urinal.

No, I found latex tubing at...it was probably Lowes. It came off the roll, right next to the clear tubing you're talking about (brought some of both home, so I know exactly what you're talking about).

Yeah, I had to mess with the length too.

I have to say, while I have some of Target's free spoons, I've found the ones that I actually paid for ($1.78 from probably WalMart), work just a tad better. I don't know what it is, but yeah, they do work just a little better. It took me about a month or a month and half to really get the medicine spoon (either the free ones or the other ones) down pat.

The latex tubing is VERY hard to get around a regular medicine spoon. One trick is to take an eye dropper and melt it around the base of a cut medicine spoon (so it makes a funnel...so it looks like the link you posted), and then just put that in the latex and drag the latex thru the packer (someone on youtube has a video of this, but youtube jams up my computer <sad face>, so I can't link to it).

I'll be honest, I don't pack everyday, because it's just too damned hot here (I just carry the spoon). Last thing I need is another heat rash somewhere uncomfortable (I've got a binder that gives me all the heat rash I'll ever need). Working outside in this heat makes everything uncomfortable enough. But I have what I'm talking about (wish I could explain it better), and it works as well (because basically it's the same thing) as what that guy sells on transitionalmale. I couldn't figure out that guy's sizing. I don't know those measurements down there. Seemed too much guesstimating...especially when I have all the materials and can custom make whatever I need.

I cut the medicine spoon down to desired length, melted the medicine dropper (that came in the same package as the $1.78 medicine spoon) to the end (so it looks like what you linked to only shorter) with a cigarette lighter. Let it cool (I actually used ice water to cool it off, cuz I'm impatient). Stick medicine dropper into latex. Fish latex through. Voila! The end of the dropper sits in the packer about 1/2 inch or less (can't really remember exactly, but it's definitely not more than 1/2 inch)...but it's not uncomfortable, and it doesn't look weird or anything.

The worst thing I've run into is a decent packer harness. But a lot of that has to do with the heat here. I don't like to pack, because it's just too freakin' hot, and I don't want a bunch of extra crap in mahhh drawers creating more heat.

But thanks for clarifying. I totally know what you're talking about now. I had that issue too, and solved it by melting the dropper onto the end of the spoon, so I could make the total length exactly what I wanted.


Dylan

I did purchase from them but they have the worst business practise I've ever seen. I actually had to file a complaint with the BBB before they responded to me --- over 6 months after I had paid and repeated emails to them. I discourage anyone who wants a PackAndPee from buying from Mango.

No.. it's the part where you said:

"males are MTF and 1 out of 34000 females are FTM..."

MTFs are women.

FTMs are men.