Posting as a member...not as a moderator...

I think the fact that Hunter Green has not returned to stay involved in this particular conversation is telling. I admit that I was suspicious of her intentions which is why I opted not to take the time I know it takes to thoroughly and thoughtfully answer those types of questions.

Unlike some, I do think we owe it to each other to educate others (both in and out of this community). I know some don't like that role, but I don't mind it so much. However, if I don't feel right about where the person is coming from then I ignore the request and go on about my business. I don't think that is hypocritical nor do I think it is rude. My intuition is my rudder, and I owe it to myself to pay attention to it; it keeps me safe.

I've been around a long time, and I feel pretty good about the way I navigate these boards. I don't think I'm an expert nor do I think my way is the best way; I'm also not given to offering unsolicited advice. But if you don't mind me saying it, I recommend not giving people who rub you the wrong way ANY of your energy. If you feel the poster is trying to get a rise out of you, don't give 'em one. That really is the best revenge, in my opinion.

Now I'm not saying HG is guilty of anything here, but I am saying that something about that post didn't feel right to me so I opted to pass it on by. If I was off base.......well......I've been off before. No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned.

I want to thank all of you for your very honest answers. I would have asked them, perhaps differently; but had some of the same questions myself.

One time, when I first joined the planet, I simply stated that I did not understand self-identified lesbians dating trans individuals because it was out of my frame of reference. I was immediately flamed. It was very, very upsetting to me. I even explained that I was partnered with a butch lesbian for 19 years and all of our friends were lesbians and that I simply had never been exposed to gender concepts. All of you must understand that there have been light-year changes in gender, trans and the lesbian community in almost 20 years of time. We lived a very vanilla life which probably had a part in it too.

It was not a trans or male-identified person that flamed me but I did not want to blunder again and the experience made me afraid to ever even bring up anything about gender again or any questions I may have had. I also would never deliberately hurt anyone's feelings. It is just not me.

I can only speak for myself but I am very appreciative to have gained some knowledge and insight I did not have before. Thank you.

Peace,

Ugh how did I miss this!

I find those questions to have a motive behind them, something just isn't adding up and the fact that Hunter hasn't returned makes me wonder.

Ok guys how do yall feel when someone uses a female pronoun to describe you to someone else?

Annoyed and disrespected but it does depend on who it is. If my grandmother does it, well.. *shrug*.. she's 80+. I cannot imagine how hard it is for her to change her thought process after using the same one for the last 80 years! That said, when colleagues do it, I gently remind them. I've had a few who have forgotten, realized it and apologized profusely (one of my closest colleagues and buddies does this on occasion but he self-corrects pretty quickly and feels really bad when he does his slips).

The question that may be asked is this: is it deliberate or a mistake? If it's a mistake, let it slide a little. If it's deliberate then you need to speak to them about it.

Ditto

(10 character rule)

I am coming across this with some close friends of mine and they do correct themselves at times when I don't say anything right up front, I guess the silence tells them that I am perturbed about it.

I am not sure if its deliberate or by mistake, it is hard to tell sometimes.

I have been nice and gave them a list of terms to educate them but IDK if they even bother to listen to me or not.

How long has it been since you came out? How often do they see you? Keep in mind that you have felt this way your whole life but they were used to what you were before (as far as what they saw and what society thought you were). It make take them time.

I have been out about the last 3 years and the people I am referring to were the first to know, granted my family doesn't know a thing (which is another story in itself). I see them on a regular basis or talk to them on a regular basis as well.

Then the time has come to have a little sit down with them and explain how this is hurting you. That it is important for them to be more proactive about keeping the right pronouns and that it could even jeopardize your safety if said near the wrong "company".

Agreed!

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Hey... Can I assume you have not taken any steps toward a medical/physical transition?

And please, please know there is NO judgment in asking that question. And please know it makes no difference to me and most others *here*.

However, if there aren't physical changes for them to *see* then it's most likely a very abstract thing for them so they're really struggling.

Society in general sees who they perceive to be "female" and use she/her, and they see who they perceive to be "male" and use he/him. And that's pretty much all they see and know. It doesn't make it right or good or bad or whatever......it's just the way it is in the mind's eye of most people you will encounter.

Based on my experiences, there's a pretty fine line between those who "slip up" and those who are being shitty. Most of us want to give people the benefit of the doubt. When you don't and you call them out on it, then they can always cop to just making a mistake and then all of a sudden *you* are the jerk. It's a tough road to navigate. :(

If these people are important to you, then just keep at it and give 'em a little more time. If you feel they are deliberately disrespecting you, then I would cut 'em loose.

I am very pre op, trying to get the money for the things I need to take the step in the right direction.

I try to be patient but patience isnt one of my virtues, but hell I am looking for support ya know.

I totally understand, J. I hope you know that. And I hope you know we support you here!!

I was just trying to figure out why this might be so damn challenging for your pals. Like I said, it doesn't excuse it or make it better; but sometimes it helps to think about it at a different level......like what goes on with *most* people with regard to this topic and not just those in our immediate circle.

Like Linus said, a sit-down-heart-to-heart is definitely in order.

Thank you guys for the understanding I am glad to have these threads on the forum.

I am in total agreeance a good heart to heart is in order.

I don't think transpeople are too sensitive when it comes to what people use as gender markers. I think bringing it down to oversensitivity opens us up to that being broadened to: "Well, that's not really transphobic, you're just too sensitive."

I think that the situation you described is one that doesn't occur frequently even if it might on a rare occasion, and so I don't think can constitute an oversensitivity, but the result of a reality. When we hear people are using the incorrect marker (even if, on a very slim chance, we've misheard), it's for a reason. Society does it consistently, and so I could see how even mishearing people can occur because of that consistency (you've come to expect it through experience, which can result on mishearing on a rare occasion).

I've had the "transitioning" discussion with my mom but she has difficulties acknowledging my masculinity. I can sense how uncomfortable she is when people call me sir. I've decided to give her a pass, even when women are hitting on me and she outs me and runs them off. *shaking head*

I have a straight woman that appears to be attracted to me. She does not know I'm trans. She came to my work the other day and asked for Kris the man. Luckily most of my co-workers are understanding and they use male pronouns. I think I'm going to have to talk with all of them. Even the ones that I fear will be ugly about it.

Anyway, I fear that it will scare her quite a bit when and if she discovers that I'm trans. Regardless, I've decided to ask her out as friends. I'm really a little nervous about it because 1.This is uncharted territory for me. 2. I don't pass all the time (I don't want to have that conversation upfront) I think it's important for her to get to know me as a person and a friend before I bust out initiate details about myself.

How have you guys dealt with this?

My best friend is the same way. He gives people dirty looks if they use the wrong pronoun but I explained to him that it doesn't bother me anymore because I have no illusions that I am still in a female body and I know it's not easy for some people. Hell I've even used the wrong pronoun with friends of mine. If someone is trying then I appreciate that but if someone slips then I won't get mad over it.

Kannon, I have been living as a straight man for over 35 years. Other than this sight, there are less than a handful of people that know I am trans. There are plenty of women whom I dated that don't know. The "reveal" is a delicate situation. For me personally, I don't want people knowing. My family has been supportive of me since my teens, but I don't feel the need for people I won't be involved with long term to know. Because of the type of lifestyle I lead this is just safer for me, in my opinion. Ultimately, only you can make those decisions for yourself within your own comfort zones and mindsets.

Thanks Cocky. It really is up to each individual to decide for themselves. I guess I'll play it by ear and wait for the right moment to reveal that part of myself.

I agree with Cocky, you have to do what you think is right and comfortable to you.

I am upfront about being trans, I believe in honesty and if women run off, well as my friends say often, it's their loss.

Hey, J. Mason. I am just thinking out loud here....but, I am wondering if it would be different for you if you were taking hormones and were read as male?

Isn't it kind of a different situation from those who are taking hormones? They are read as male and have to tell someone that they were assigned female at birth. You are seen as female and have to tell someone that inside you are male. The women that each of you are coming out to are coming from opposite places.

Make sense? No disrespect meant, I am just thinking outloud here and wondering your thoughts on this.

I am read as male to most people, to some I am not. It would prolly be a different situation but I can only speak for myself, when I do get everything done (surgeries and hormones, etc) I will still be open and honest about who I am, no holds barred.

The ladies that I have told about myself knew me when I ID'ed as butch, have been pretty accepting about it, maybe it is because they have taken it upon themselves to educate themselves about transmen and the things it encompasses.

Again I can only speak for myself.

Got it. Thanks for your thoughts.

I believe in honesty as well. I'm not sure what you mean by being upfront. Do you tell women the day you meet them?

For me, I will not share personal information with someone until I've developed a certain level of trust. I've met some women that proved to be very untrustworthy. I've learned to take my time and watch people's behavior rather than listen to their words. After a period of time I really get to know what that person is made of. I don't listen to what other people say about them. I base my opinions on my own observations and experiences with them.

I will share this aspect of myself after I've developed a bond with someone.

I've always wondered about that! (the guys 'revealing' themselves bit)

My husband met all his women online where they were able to discuss his gender before meeting, so has no idea how other guys do it.

Not long before my current relationship began, a friend of mine had a similar experience with an MTF who wasn't honest prior to them falling into bed. At the time I was shocked, wondering why anyone would deceive another human being in such a way. Now I can kinda understand how hard it would be to say the words, 'I like you but..'

You are welcome!


Yeah pretty much I tell em upfront so I do not have to deal with any issues that may arise from not telling them sooner. I have heard many horror stories from some transguys about how the ladies react if they are not told sooner.

I guess it depends if you continue to maintain ties with the lgbtq community/if that's where you're looking for relationships/sex or not, or how you view your own status as a trans person. Personally, I don't see it as something that one would go out of their way to hide from someone unless you might be putting your safety at risk, as it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I can understand if someone is strictly living stealth as some choose to and is looking for relationships with straight women rather than queer women. That would make it more difficult, imo, since often straight women don't have the same experiences and are pretty tied to certain rigid worldviews. I guess it all depends on the person you're interested in.

It really depends on a lot of different factors.

For my personal situation, I'm not going out of my way to hide and I'm not going out of my way to reveal it. I'm being me. I don't think I need to tell strangers that I'm trans just like I don't feel compelled to tell them that I'm of Scottish decent or any thing else that's not relevant to the moment. The "moment" being the early stages of a relationship. I choose to introduce acquaintances to my sense of humor and my laid back nature. I reveal more as I develop trust and feel more comfortable around them.

So I was recently in a situation at work, that I felt was some what relevant to the current topic at hand about revealing yourself to another person. Now I am in no way pursuing anything with this woman at my work, just to put that out there, so it makes it slightly different.

I had noticed a few times that this woman had made a reference to the men's room and my having the right parts to go in there (she wanted me to go in there for one reason or another), and it finally occurred to me, was she just referring to me in the way she felt I wanted, or did she really not know? So yesterday I worked up the courage to ask her, and well, I can be pretty direct at times, so I simply asked..."You do know that I am not a biological male right?" She looked very shocked to say the least, her and I had been working right next to each other for at least 3 months, and she had no idea that I was not born with male parts. She apologized of course, I let her know that was not necessary, and explained my situation to her. Sure, it was awkward, but for me personally, I feel it needed to be done. I didn't want her to get the wrong idea, especially since I do not use the men's room at work for a multitude of reasons and I did not want her to be uncomfortable if we ran into each other in the restroom.

So, while it does make me uncomfortable to have to out myself to people, I think there is also times where it might be necessary to do so. I don't think its deceiving to not tell someone right up front, or dishonest. I think depending upon the situation, especially if there is going to be any sort of intimacy involved though, that it is only right I tell the person before it gets to the point of us being intimate. That is just how I feel though, and what I feel is right for me. It of course could be very different for someone else and they may not feel it necessary at all to tell someone, and that is their choice as well.

Ok guys need opinions, should I start a thread of images of transguys, like the images of women thread on here? Who would yall want to see pics of and in any particular stages of transitioning?

Any suggestion and such are welcome.

I agree with you as well, I just wanted to get some more opinions on the matter.

I guess I'm putting this in the framework of dating members of the queer community. If I'm dating a femme, she's probably going to know quickly that I'm trans, not because I've announced it through a loud speaker or tattooed it on my forehead, but because queer dating usually comes with the assumption that the other person is also somehow queer. Especially if we met in a queer environment, which is most likely. That's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about it depending on whether you're living stealth or not. I would understand if a guy is living stealth and dating non-queer women why the subject wouldn't come up. But in a queer atmosphere where someone isn't stealth, then "queer" is still going to be an unspoken factor unlike in the hetero world where the assumption is that you're straight.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

kannon mentioned that the woman was straight. Wasn't that kind of the point of the question?? He was talking non-queer context. right? :confused:

please help a butch chick understand!
 

I have a question that I hope is not impolite but Im not sure. OK so firstly here are my assumptions. Please, please please correct me if I'm wrong!
1. Trans guys are born female but feel male/masculine inside and therefore change the outside to match their 'inner man'. 2. This can be achieved with or without surgery and/or with or without T. 3. This is a big assumption - when you identify as a trans male you are either a straight man or a gay man. Now to my question which I hope will make sense ..... Can body dysphoria be different to sexual/gender identity? I have been watching youtube and have been following some of the trans guys, and one guy's latest update (he has been on T and had top surgery) stated that he identifies as trans but also female and femme. I just can't seem to get my head around it and thought you guys might be able to help. If you want the link let me know and I'll PM it for you if that will help. Thanks guys.

I would like the link. Please and thank you! :)

Well the kid seems to have a very strong sense of self and that's awesome. I don't identify as femme or female so I can't wrap my mind around that either but maybe Jude is a case where body dysphoria can be different to sexual/gender. Anorexia is about body image and it crosses sexual and gender lines as well. Jude feels very human to me and appears to see a lot of things as constructs (I agree with Jude). Thanks for sharing the video.