|
Quote:
yes, well you can only try to educate so much... i don't think a word of what i was saying got through at all. and honestly, sometimes i'll participate in a situation longer than is necessary because i'm fascinated by what someone is saying/doing--and not the good fascinated, more like morbid curiosity. this was definitely one of those times. and well, i had to share--that was a real life *example* of what "high femme" means to some--and i am sadly of the thinking that he isn't the only one that thinks like that. (that's what really bothers me.) |
Quote:
I have to wonder if that isn't a case of media socialization or if that was what his mom was like. :bicycle:may have helped but you are right...some people don't want to learn. And that's probably okay. Those that want an Angelina Jolie body with a Donna Reed personality and Paula Deen in the kitchen are going to be searching a long damned time. I kind of feel sorry for the emptiness in them that will never ever get filled. And those femmes who are constantly trying to cram themselves into that picture frame... how do they do it? |
i just don't think it's real. and i'm about calling out the shit when i see it.
and i can totally understand someone with an overly developed sense of fashion (hello, i worked in womens' retail for years!) wanting another person with *also* an overly developed sense of fashion.... but you (in my world) don't get to dress like a schlub (EZ's word) and talk to me about stockings, heels and pencil skirts (not that he'd know what a pencil skirt was). that sooooo doesn't work for me. i am the type of person to point that all out (when my more subtle methods haven't worked, of course). |
Mm. Well.
I thought "high" and "low" femme were merely reflective of altered and mood states. |
I scare the Arwen? I am pretty sure my perception is not skewed about you Arwen. You are the epitome of Strong/Hot/Femme to me. You don't take shit, you speak your mind and you do it all while looking gorgeous. Jeans and a t-shirt look as alluring on you as a ball gown. You shine from the inside out.
Remember Vegas Arwen? You danced the entire night at the Ball and I sat in a chair with nobody willing to approach me, talk to me, or ask me to dance. You came over twitterpated and told me you felt like the Bell of the Ball. It was transformative for you. I told you that i felt i-n-v-i-s-i-b-l-e. You were shocked. I was not. I am used to it. I don't make effort to "perform" Femme. I really am just me all of the time. My world view doesn't measure girliness in others, but rather cerebral stimulation, kindness, empathy, and heart. All of which you carry very well. I'm not high. I'm not low. I don't see others as high or low in any kind of rating system or higherarchy (thanks ap). I may or may not be confuzzled on how I could possibly scare you. Pet my head please. |
I so want to borrow your mirror to look at myself in. I do remember dancing that night away and feeling like a Belle of the Ball. It was transformative to me (And that cute Katanaboi helped, lol).
When you and I went shopping...I felt like this ignoramus. I had no clue what Sephora was. I was so sure you would see through me and realize I was just a pretend femme. : pats your pretty head: I love you and have learned a lot from you about being myself and not worrying about what others think I should be. You are, whether you like it or not, one of my role models. :):dance1: When I think of you (no I don't touch my elf), I think of what perserverance and self-honesty look like. I think of a beautiful woman who conquers adversity on a daily basis. I think of someone I want to be more like. Quote:
|
Ha. The Sephora trip must have slipped into on of the holes in my Swiss Cheese Brain.
I think a *pretend femme* is a mythical creature. There is no blueprint to Femme. I have NEVER in my life thought "Hmmm. Is she a *real femme*?". Rather, I love the diversity that envelopes Femme. I'm not saying this to negate your experience Arwen. Rather as a reminder that we are all evolving creatures unique in our own right. The bracelet said it well. :rrose: |
The exchange between you two is lovely. Lovely in itself, lovely because it just goes to show that femme - just femme - really is enough.
High femme, low femme, sporty femme, remotecontrolhuggerfemme, it honestly doesn't matter, what matters is the 'F' word because it's that word, that essence, that unites us and that sets us apart from others. Words |
Right now I am wishing for a few close femme friends that live near me.
Thank goodness for butchfemmeplanet! ~cara |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, interestingly, I've "been told" that I'm high femme or low femme, depending on the butch. I've even argued the point, insisting I'm simply femme. That point was argued based on THEIR interpretation of me. Can you IMAGINE the brewhaha that would ensue if femmes started telling butches/transguys who they "really" are? Quote:
|
High femme has confused me. I do know a high femme in real time. I was told by a butch that I was not a high femme and that she only likes high femmes and when I asked what that was or how do you know or something like that I was told well you just know and trust me you are not one.
I have no problem with someone who identifies that way. I don't think it is in any way a hierarchy coming from the femme. At least I have not experienced it that way It seems it is some kind of ranking from the butches. And then I internalize and compare and I somehow make myself come up lacking. So I guess what I am trying to say is that I am responsible for that. Happy Hannukah and Chag Sameach to any Jewish femmes here. I love this cute emoticon here! :2driedel: Usually it is always Christmas stuff. |
I have seen Femmes self-identify as Low Femme. It's been several years and maybe they might identify differently now, but at the time, they were saying things like, "I am the opposite of a High Femme; I wear comfortable shoes, jeans, no makeup," to explain the difference.
I've never known a different term for High Femme, but since it's a description of a "glamor girl" type Femme, I usually just say glamor girl. It has been presented as a hierarchy for a long time and that's a major reason I have had trouble with the idea of being "Femme enough." When I was still fairly new in the community at the Dash site, there were multiple serious threads which proclaimed that one had to be a glamor girl in order to be successful at being Femme. That was before those of us who say "Femme is what we are, not what we wear" outnumbered those who said "Femme is what we wear and what we do." I think our community has evolved a LOT over the past seven years, and our gender discussions have brought us all much farther along than we might ordinarily notice, without a conversation like this to jog our memories. There was a time that talking about the hierarchy between High and Low Femmes would merely have gotten a "yes, that's the way it should be" answer. I'm glad it doesn't happen like that anymore; I'm glad we're questioning the stereotypes. I'm sorry that julieisafemme, blush, and apretty have run into such clueless Butches! Sheesh. Well... I suppose I have too, but on the other side of things, Butches who were unhappy that I chose to wear makeup or that I had long hair.... as if those choices were about BUTCHES? Hello, MY face, MY hair, MY gender expression, MY choice. |
It's true, I've been told that I'm not a femme by someone (happened to be FtM) from the match site. I think the reason was that I expressed to him that I appreciate all women, not just butch women. Even though butch women are my preference for romantic or sexual partners.
But, whatever. It bugged me because I thought he was a jerk to offer his opinion. I was amazed (naively) that someone who had defied stereotypes, as he had, would be so quick to label and judge me. It didn't affect how I felt about myself, though. I can have low self-esteem without any help from anyone! :hanging: |
Quote:
Lynn, I feell ya... I had this butch once, tell me I was more butch than he, that my lack of skirts and lack of giggles made me as such.. My favorite I often get is, a good femme keeps quiet and is not so blunt.. I snap, I wanna grab that person by the throat and choke them... Right now I wanna scoop someone's eyes out with a lemon baller because the equate femme to *straight looking* OY VEY:overreaction: |
I was once told by a Butch that they found the reading of my poetry at an event for another site "distasteful" because of my usage of the words "fuck" and "pussy". They found it "unladylike".
After I got through laughing, I asked the person what they thought of the act that was currently on stage, which happened to be a Butch doing a drag routine. The Butch on stage happened to be grinding their crotch on a person sitting in a chair at the time. After the person said they "didnt see a problem with what the Butch was doing on stage because it was just 'the nature of a Butch'", I retorted something to the effect of "well pardon the fuck out of my unladylike self but I gotta piss" Sure, I could have responded better but sometimes the misogyny in our community is overwhelming. |
Quote:
Honestly? Not for me. High femme, to me, is ultra-sophisticated. She is the NYC kind of woman who is always put together. Girly is different. Girly, again for me, is a bit...a bit Donna Reed, maybe? Poor Donna Reed...all she ever did was play a part. Quote:
Heck honey, I know I'm amazing on my good days. But there are many days still when I fight that battle. And I think, smile, I think it's okay to patronize me in that way. Hee. But seriously, I think sometimes I DO have a victim/poor-me that whines and wants to know that I'm liked. I've been doing some work on that voice of myself. It's not an authentic voice for me. I don't want to be rescued and when I put that energy out there, that's what happens. :toothache: So thank you. |
Quote:
On the flip side of the high femme, I've also heard a lot of shit from femmes and trans/butches about high femmes. That they are stupid, "too much work," ALWAYS submissive, ALWAYS stone, and on and on... |
I've been told my entire life to "act like a lady." When I was younger and playing rugby, an older male told me getting hurt was what I got for trying to play a man's sport. I was too shocked to retort by saying that I didn't get hurt playing rugby but that it was actually an injury from playing volleyball at the company picnic. *eyeroll* I've heard this mysoginistic stuff from my dad, from men trying to pick me up, from butches and even people in the leather community. I've heard it so much that, like Arwen, I have to fight that internal processing so hard ever day. It has been a struggle to figure out who I am and find my own voice. What I want is to be seen, heard, understood and accepted as a person not a gender or gender stereotype. I agree with Bit that our community has evolved a lot over the past several years. I am curious to see what it will look like in another 7 years.
~cara |
Quote:
Whatever. I am who I feel inside. At times I feel fiercely femme, other times, I don't. I am just me exploring and playing out the many facets of who I am. I have been called unladylike but I have also been called high femme. I have had so many "labels" throughout my life - truthfully, I don't care how others perceive me anymore. All I concern myself with is being true to who I am and living each day in the world I define - not how others define it for me. And for the record - I have never heard of "low femme" as a descriptor. |
Can you tell we are hitting one of my last nerves.... LOL
I have always had issues with the "high" femme tag. I have always identified as femme. I wear make up almost all the time, don't own a pair of jeans (and I don't think have since high school almost 40 years ago) and wear heels 90% of the time. TO assume I am uncomfortable in them makes me so tired. I have been hearing to "Why don't you wear tennis shoes and slacks and be comfortable?" for 30 years. I am comfortable in heels and flats. I am comfortable in skirts and dresses. Slacks bind me and I hate them. To use this as a way to describe a certain type of femme is just silly.
I never assume a femme who is more comfortable in slacks and jeans is less femme. Cheezus. At least when I came out in the 60's and 70's there was not this on-going linear discussion of femme based on how you looked. I was raised by two stylish women: my mother and grandmother who did not leave the house with out powder on the nose and a hand bag that matched their shoes. What the hell does that have to with my femme gender? I had a gay man say to me the other day, "I have not quiet figured you out. You are so femme on the outside and....so ummm butch on the inside." My reply was "No, honey, that is called being a in control of my self and in my world I am femme inside and out. It is growing up the oldest of nine children with a mentally ill mother and having to take (and I mean take) control." I am, mostly, an in control femme. Inside and out. It doesn't make me a high or low or medium femme it makes me competent and a wee bit bossy. Hahahaha! |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:59 AM. |
ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018