Ah! Kobi has the original post. Now I don't sound quite so stupid....

Yes, I edited b/c I felt like I was throwing too much info. out there when I really didn't want to get into a discussion about it. I felt that I was already being intrusive by writing in the lesbian zone, so I was seeking a way to give Kobi a short answer without having discussion follow. I did not want to say anything that would derail from any direction you all might have wanted to take this thread.

Three for the price of one. That sounds like quite the deal, indeed.

Reclaiming it? I don't feel like I ever lost it.

For the sake of clarity, and in the the spirit of reclaiming lesbian heritage and grammatical correctness - neoPolitical Correctness be damned (I never signed on for that, anyway):


female/woman (noun) = sex/biology
male/man (noun) = sex/biology

lesbian (noun) = a woman of same sex, sexual orientation

feminine/masculine (adj.) = gender

femme (noun) = female lesbian
butch (noun) = female lesbian who expresses female "masculinity"

transgender (verb) = moving along a gender continuum.

transgender person (noun) = a person of either sex, who may be lesbian, gay or straight.

Using adjectives as nouns is not good grammar, nor is it good politics. It just muddies the water. Non-lesbians, who lay claim to lesbian descriptors, are the ones obliged to clarify through expanded labeling.

Damn. You're good. :)

I'd object (mildly) to your adj/noun edict on a number of grounds--most notably, that you blur the distinction while making it--but I think this is nicely laid out.

Question: Sex = gender? They were distinguished above, I believe, at one point, but (without doing any research) I think they do equate.

Well, I am not an English Major or writer nor do I know much about grammatics or being politically correct for that matter, but I don't agree with a couple of the items. So, maybe I will say this is how they are for me.

An adjective modifies a noun or a pronoun by describing, identifying, or quantifying words. An adjective usually precedes the noun or the pronoun which it modifies.

A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea.

In that light, both Butch and Lesbian are adjectives for me as they describe parts of me, not all of me....Butch Lesbian Woman

Hey! Is that a new acronym? BLW? Cool beans:)

I am not trying to derail the thread but...

Transgender is an adjective, not a verb. People aren't transgendering.

Also, people aren't transgendered even though it is used all the time. i have even caught my self using it early on and still catch myself using transgendered at times. It can be insulting to many people within the transgender community.

It may seem like semantics but it is important.

I entered this discussion this morning as a moderator because we had a community member ask us to keep an eye on the conversation for fear things might get a little heated. I say that because I want to be clear that I do not identify as a lesbian. Even when that was the community I felt was a "best fit" for me, I was not able to embrace that particular identity. I tried, but I knew it was not an authentic reflection of who I was as a person.

So in coming here to catch up on things this morning, I read the post quoted above and am curious, Chazz, if you pasted this information from somewhere else or if this is how you see things?

Like a few others have stated, some of the information is in conflict with my own definitions. For example, the first two entries... I see male and female as biological sex assignments, but I see woman and man as gender identities.

It seems important to acknowledge that most of us here will have our own little spin on how all these terms and the grammar of it all......as well as the politics.......play out and, hopefully, we won't let those differences be a barrier in reclaiming lesbian pride (as the title suggests).

Thinker (entered as a moderator but posting as a member) :)

Good Morning Kobi, I'm sorry you are feeling some frustration this morning regarding how you are not being seen.. How can we help you not feel this way? What is it you have envisioned for this thread? Are you seeking women with lesbian being their only identifier? How can we help you not feel so alone?

You aren't there's lots of lesbians here I'm sure soon this thread will be full of women embracing their pride right along with you! :)

Lesbian is a weird word. I don't mean the semantics of it, and how we're trying to define or understand it. I mean orthographically. You just don't see the letter l, s, b together in a word much. I remember how, right before and after I came out, my eyes would dart to words like Lebanese and Lisbon in the news or wherever. It's a stand-out letter sequence for me.

When I first started claiming my identity, I said I was gay. I was a gay woman. (I was not, however, a gay, which I think is derogatory, but is becoming more neutral in the plural, e.g., "Gays today want....")

There are still one-off situations where I balk at saying lesbian. Like, to an elderly person. Or too-loudly in a cafe. I don't know whether I don't want to ruin someone's lunch or what, and while I think I should analyze that fear in myself I don't much feel like it right now.

Well, those are my thoughts, and nothing more, about being and calling myself a lesbian. Thanks for a forum where I can explore it.