or, perhaps you enjoy the "punishment"?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wil}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I've never found you to be anything other than supportive.

I've experienced that. Interestingly enough, the times in the past when I have felt judged have been when other Femmes have tried to take away my rights to speak to and about female-identified Butches. The mechanism has usually been that I say something inclusive of all Butches, OR I say something about one group of Butches without painstakingly referencing all the other groups of Butches--and then I am arbitrarily branded as erasing and devaluing female identified Butches.

The effect of this has been to make me APPEAR to be enforcing male-centric standards on our community, because people have loudly tarred me with that brush. The truth is that in a weird and twisted kind of way, the people who have insisted that I am holding up male-centric standards have actually done it themselves by bringing it up in the first place and plastering it all over me when I wanted nothing to do with it and was deliberately, carefully avoiding it.

I suppose the problem is that some people cannot see past the "scarcity model" of thinking, and believe whole-heartedly that there is only one kind of recognition and it's limited; therefore, they seem to believe that if a person is recognizing male-identified Butches they are automatically erasing female-identified Butches, and vice versa. (I believe this is the root of the division in the Butch community even now.)

I say there is enough attention and recognition to go around. Both male and female identified Butches are valuable members of our community and deserve recognition--just as Transmen are valued and deserve recognition.

But what has happened is that in actual practice, no one hears me. From being a strong, deeply thoughtful, analytical, articulate, and valued ally of all three groups, I have been reduced to a caricature of unthinking prejudice--and so I am silenced.

not surprisingly, people tend to balk at change. especially change that challenges or cuts into their perception of "how things work". i do believe that anger is fear channeled outwardly.

no one wants to give up power...especially those who have long (and perhaps not so wisely) wielded it. rather than see the benefit to all that can be had by spreading the power (and responsibility) along a broad line, they grow fearful that their little stash of power will be diminished, thereby diminishing themselves and their perceived position in the world.

i honestly believe that if the male/masculine people on this planet took a step back and looked at where their power lies, and who supports them through things....they'd understand that the feminine should be exalted for the strong beings and forces they are. rather than give credit where credit is due, it's hidden or usurped with the growth in power going to the usurper.

i'm not sure i'm making sense.

This sounds to me like a Native American belief. It's one of many beautiful Native beliefs that have been forgotten. Or should I really say, silenced.
I agree with you, little man.

E,
Thank you for igniting thought and discussion here. I read this post on different site and I'm not surprised at the lack of response 'there'. In fact, the example of you creating an opportunity for literally the same voices to share their thoughts on this topic highlights the undertow of aggression some spaces have created.

So yes, I have an opinion on this topic, and yes, I choose to share it 'here'.

I've changed over the past 10 or so years I've identified as Femme. I used to believe it was all about my power and in hindsight my power looked more like King Kong stomping on legitimate thoughts, opinions and questions of those that may have differed from mine. My power was to 'squash' not only the opinion, but to take a deeper stance and make a stronger impact on the person to ensure they didn't continue to hold opinions that aligned with the ones they shared. How dare they think for themselves? The nerve.

How have I changed? I no longer feel I need to exude power to get my point across or, in many cases, feel I need to share any thought at all. To me, this is not me 'rolling over' to a masculine opinion. I'm no longer in it to have a winner or a loser. Instead, I choose to focus on my strength.

For me, my Femme strength is about focusing on how to get to what I truly want and believe in without hurting people or countering opinions along the way. I feel I am at my best when I can keep my head high and walk through the proverbial shit storm of words. And while I love and appreciate discussion, I ---wait for it---feel there are some who don't deserve to hear my words. These are preditory individuals (male, female, etc.) who will never get who I am or what I stand for.

Regarding the pink font: Fucking hate it. I hate the constant juvenile look and immature nature of the content. To me, the perception is just too ridiculous to take the person seriously, regardless of the situation; Regardless how 'deep' the person is.

I'm sure the previous paragraph contradicts what I just shared but I think you brainiacs can handle it.

Peace,
TPT

I am always very glad to get the opportunity to learn more about femmes, how they think and feel about being a femme, and how they think and feel about us masculine gents. Reading this thread has been educational to me, and I very much appreciate all you ladies have shared. Thank you! :cheesy:

Ahhhh..the planet thrives
 

Echo, echo echo....listening in..Learning in the midst of life.:chocolate::eatinghersheybar:

Dear femme...
 

Clothes swap.

Oakland.

Realization.

Dressed up, we are beautiful.

But in bra and panties, thrown in a room together? AND...not a butch in sight?

We're fucking awesome.

Yes.

Cath, whom I adore, I've selected pieces from a few of your posts that speak to the same thing. Namely, how you see yourself deferring to butches and transmasculine others always. How you appear more concerned with their comfort than your own. How your need to do this has left you feeling silenced and misunderstood.

When reading these posts, what kept occurring to me was your need to speak of the masculine other in this thread, which is a Call to Femme, to You.

It is about You. It is about what is beautiful and powerful and autonomous in You.

I have seen the ways that we have disallowed ourselves.

Here, I want to see us naming and seeing ourselves. And one another.

Don't misunderstand, I also want to talk about the ways that we are met with masculine-centrism and how we have handled it, as much as how we might choose to handle it in the future, but if I see that you are focusing over-much on the masculine, I'm just going to remind you -gently- of You.

Because, you know, it's You who just fucking rocks my socks.

It's You whom I have admired most.

It's You who have been my unofficial mentors.

It's You I think of as my friends.

:heartbeat:

Regarding my earlier mention of the Dread Pink Font.

I was owning that as a likely example of one of the ways I have bought and swallowed the misogyny. The frivolity reads, well, frivolous. (Watch me do it again here for free, folks!)

I suppose that on the other side of that, you won't find me enjoying anything overly stereotyped as male/masculine (read: neanderthal). All that belching business has me clicking out of a thread instantly.

Now, as Bit pointed out, some of our best femmes may be the pinkly fonted, virtually tea party hostesses. I am not judging them. I am just not reading them. What SuperFemme asked was 'how are we participating?.'

This was one of the ways I could name off-hand. I am not getting to know these femmes. By choice.

I thought it was a great question.

How else are we party to the masculine-centrism?

i dont think i'm guilty of defining the way male/masculine identified persons do the business of their lives, whether i agree with how they do it or not. could be wrong tho'.

if ANY person wants to do the "world domination" attitude thing i dont feel any need to participate in their delusions of grandeur. i'd rather snicker to myself from the sidelines or slap them down in my own special ways.

do we judge one another in harshly? oh hell yes.

my "at home politics" and my "world politics" are so different as to be two distinct realities. i'm not at all confused about them and neither is any Lover who wants more than a passing chance with me.

if i choose to use pink fonts, to wear maribu and lace, to fuck myself with a hello kitty vibrator or any other so-called "girly" behavior and someone thinks i'm less intelligent or that i'm doing such things "for" someone else they can suck my dick (she said delicately).

i'm swamped with paraphernalia that extols whatever measurable intelligence i've managed to exhibit as well as my professional success over the long term. i'm a damn smart bitch and i'm also damn submissive in intimate situations. i'm also a fairly decent human being. the fact that i like to be held down and fucked like an expensive whore or that i live and breathe my Lover's desires when we find we have mutual free time and opportunity has nothing to do with my intelligence or my ability to take care of my car and home maintenance or to de-worm the cat without help from a Guy.

i choose the girly things FOR me, no one else. whenever i've decided to be without Lovers i didnt stop with the girly stuff. it's MY stuff. it's ME. it's not an act for someone else.

my lesbian friends used to ream me for being myself all the time. we're not friends anymore. if my femme friends begin to do the same i'll happily do without them as well. i love my friends but without them, i'm just fine.

in case it needs to be said, i'm not getting my temper on or anything. i just wanted to answer this (very valid) question from well within my own space.