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You can say that it's the same - having the piece of paper and not having the piece of paper - but you won't know how different it is until you actually get to have the piece of paper. I used to say it was the same. It's not. And I have the piece of paper to prove it.
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there wasn't an option that fully represented my situation but i chose "alternate joining" (i wasn't certain if you meant an alternate legal joining, like a domestic partnership or common law situation, or a non-legally-binding commitment).
i have two partners. i am married-but-not-legally to both, which means for us that we've taken vows and committed to each other. i've exchanged rings with my butch (this week!) and been collared by my other partner (and given him a ring, several years ago), who i'm in a d/s relationship with. i have a queer spousal relationship with both partners in addition to our butch/femme and dominant/submissive dynamics. i haven't had an elaborate ceremony with either, though i would like to. rick and i are planning an actual collaring ceremony at some point in the future. chris and i have gone back and forth on whether we'd like to have some sort of wedding ceremony once we are all living together. in both cases, at this point, the ceremonies themselves are just formalities for us. as far as legal realities, chris and i cannot get legally married because we don't live in a state with same-sex marriage and he isn't far enough into his transition to change his gender on his id (and greyson's post listed well all the reasons why even if he could the whole situation is just fucked up and hypocritical). rick and i could get legally married. i won't marry one of my partners legally and not the other because i am committed to both and i'm frankly just really fed up and angry with the fact that marriage for queer/trans and poly couples and families is really not an option. the whole anti-poly and anti-queer/trans marriage culture is really upsetting to me. on a practical level, there would be some benefits to legal marriage - sharing health insurance (which i don't have but could get if i were married to one or both of them), tax benefits, veterans and social security benefits (both my partners are veterans and one is close to retirement) and potentially disability benefits if i ever end up getting them, work benefits, and medical benefits if one of us is sick or dying. there would also be some drawbacks - chris and i have a lot of student loan debt, rick has credit card debt, we all maintain mostly separate finances and like it that way. IF everything else was equal - the finances weren't a huge barrier, polyamorous and queer marriages were legal everywhere, etc. - i'd marry them both legally tomorrow if i could. but even if queer marriage becomes legal in kansas in my lifetime, i seriously doubt polygamy will. rick, who has been married before, is not really interested in getting legally married again; chris is definitely interested in getting legally married but happy to keep things the way they are now because of the lack of equality for queer and polyamorous relationships. that said - i'm happy with the way things are now. where i am from most people don't get married because there is a horribly high rate of domestic violence (along with virtually everyone living under the poverty line and a lot of substance abuse) so i didn't grow up in a culture where legal marriage was normal. it's much easier to leave an abusive relationship and get your kids out of it if you're not legally married. i never saw a happily married couple til i met my friends anna and dawn, who are lesbian and have been married 13 years (non-legally because they live in a state where it's illegal). when i was little my mom made me promise i would never get married, or at least wait til i was 40 and had a career and my own life and then i could if i really really really really felt i had to. so i've always felt pressured NOT to marry which is the opposite of a lot of my friends (especially other muslims i know and folks around my age - mid-twenties). |
another issue for us is religious - i'm a muslim who goes to a ucc church and i'm married to a secular jew and a buddhist. they would be willing to have religious marriage ceremonies with me, and i'm good friends with an imam who does same-sex nikahs (muslim marriage ceremonies) in the u.s. and canada (he is one of only a handful of imams in the world who will do this - i witnessed him perform a nikah for a lesbian couple and it was a very powerful experience). but he does not approve of polyandry. likewise, the church i attend is pretty accepting and my pastor knows me pretty well but i seriously doubt he'd be willing to perform a ceremony for me, knowing that i am poly - the ucc is queer-friendly and doesn't exclude poly folks in the congregation but they are very monogamy-centered officially (though a friend of mine who is a poly ucc minister and i are trying to get together to find out more about the church hierarchy where ceremonies are concerned). so if we were to do a ceremony i would probably have a pagan or buddhist friend perform a ceremony i design myself, and it would be in the community but outside of my places of worship.
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There are many ways to make sure you and your spouse are protected even down to the ownership of mutual belongings. You can have papers drawn up that if you ever split, everything is divided equally. Just about everything can be done legally...just takes a lot more time and effort and money. IMO...that piece of paper only meant most of that stuff mentioned above was already done for me. Without that piece of paper it was on me to make sure everything was done that could be done legally. It's neater and tightier with the paper...that was the only diff for me. A note of the heart: A piece of paper did not "make" me more married in my soul, it was the commitment. With that said....i strongly STILL believe we all have the right to be married. It is way easier legally. BUT, IMO that is the only difference. |
When the right femme comes along. But no sooner!
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If I met the right girl. Then maybe.
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Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to add the part about my me place. *For me* it was very different. Much more different than I ever thought it would be and I had no idea how different it would be until I had the piece of paper in my hand.
*For me* it's not about health insurance or inheritance or any of those things you mentioned. Yes, all of those can be handled in some other way. But there is no other way to be legally married other than to be legally married. I didn't think it would matter to me. I didn't think I would feel different. But it did. *To me*. Quote:
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Great thread btw. |
My experiences have been dismal.
These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now. Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ... Perhaps. After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup. Not very romantic, I know. :blink: |
My husband and I got engaged after only 3 months together, so clearly marriage is for me :D
I can only hope that if we ever separate, that I'll remember how happy I was the day we said our vows. |
I am home on the iPad which won't let me quote so I'll try to make sense when I mention someone else's post.
I am not a fan of "Marriage" in particular, although for "me" I have never felt that sense of deep commitment, even in the Domestic Partnership that my Kasey and I had, without legal binding marriage. Novelafemme said that her partner needed to have the legal ceremony...I also needed that to make my union feel as valid as any other. I am a firm believer that marriage should be civil joinings and Church marriage (two separate entities) as in some other countries. Those that want a legal equal partnership could just be joined for that purpose, and those that wanted to take it a step further could do so...does that make sense? |
It still boggles my mind to know in my lifetime, homosexuality has grown from illegal/criminal/mental illness to legal gay marriage. I remember how thrilled I was when the company I worked for instituted same sex benefits. I remember how dismayed I was when gay marriage became legal in this state and same sex benefits required putting a ring on it. I am a traditionalist. Marriage and committment ceremonies/civil unions are not the same to me. I can be committed yet have no desire to marry. I suspect the person who actually brings me to the point of entertaining marriage would be one heck of a person. :) |
[QUOTE=Sassy;523742]
After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup. ^^^^ THIS! |
I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized! Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal". Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another! MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo |
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I no longer have the attachment to the fantasy associated with weddings and all the entrapments that come with it. I think, for me, the fantasy was part of the initial attraction to marriage. In the end, though, it's nothing more than dedication and hard work dressed up in tulle and silk. I can do dedication and hard work without the fancy bits just fine. |
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i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.
Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that. |
Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.
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