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-   -   The Westboro Baptist Church - Hate Group or? (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1245)

dixie 03-17-2011 10:27 AM

To me they are nothing more than a cult, no different than the Branch Davidians, Christian Identity Movement, Heaven's Gate, etc etc. They use all these "freedom" tactics to cover their hate group agenda. I'm waiting on the day though when they go too far and begin actually perpetrating hate crimes against the ones they choose to speak out against. (Then, if they go the route of some of the other religious cult groups, it'll probably end up with either a Waco-type situation or some type of mass suicide.) These folks are just wayyyyy too nutty. And the brainwashing of the children is just sad and pathetic. Happy that Nate and a few of the others stood against them and left. :(

Ebon 03-17-2011 10:33 AM

"Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God."

Captain Malcolm Reynolds,

betenoire 03-17-2011 11:30 AM



I still think he's a faux news smegwaffle, but I agree with him here. I'm surprised, though, that the tea baggers aren't burning him in effigy over this.

EnderD_503 03-17-2011 12:26 PM

I see them as both a Baptist Church/Christian org. and a hate group.

Edit: I'm apparently temporarily dislexic and thought the question read if we saw that as a church or as a hate group. Bleh, anyways, either way I think what they do shouldn't be permitted by law. Alone they would be somewhat neutered, but there are a heck of a lot of groups out there that are seen as somewhat more "legit" that follow a very similar pattern. Not a harmless group that is for sure.

Luv 03-17-2011 12:33 PM

Phelps son was interviewed on tv last night. He ran away from the cult when he was 18. Even he says as many of us would agree..that it is fueled by hate by his father. He also mentioned that he is related to almost everyone in that group,,intermarrying is goin on.
At pride last year in San Diego I saw some people protesting the pride parade..I asked one of the guys holding a sign if he was with Phelps.Westboro..he said "No,,that guys an asshole" lol !
It is a cult fueled by hate

Camo Eagle 03-17-2011 02:16 PM

Yes def a hate group to the fullest.
Sadly they hide behind religion & freedom of speech.

I will nev fig out how a so called Church can use the word Hate in their campaigns. That goes against everything taught in the Bible. Then they even make signs that say God hates so and so.
Excuse me, God & Jesus nev hated anyone, and I dont think they would condone it said in their names.
Perhaps they should be more worried about explaining all this on their judgement day, instead of what someone else is doing.

Unfortunately, even though its just words that some say are harmless, they do inspire nut balls to commit physical acts.

Makes Military folks sick knowing this is how "freedom of speech" is being used, but we dont get to pick and choose.

Gráinne 03-17-2011 09:11 PM

One could point to any number of atrocities carried out by any of the "big three" religions, far worse than Phelps. I know that's controversial to say, but Phelps (so far) has not killed anyone, nor exiled people, or tried to wipe out an entire group.

While I find them and their message repugnant, I disagree with a "hate speech" law. Who would decide what's hate speech and what isn't? Who would decide the penalties? We'd have a whole lot of people in prison if someone got the power to just lock them up for saying something they didn't like. I'd be scared to death much more of my speech watched by whatever political party was in power, than a tiny group carrying signs. China, for example. A beautiful country and people, but the most terrifying experience of my life.

I have every sympathy with the family of the serviceman who brought suit all the way to the Supreme Court. I too wish the Phelps would just go away. But if you silence one, you silence all.

EnderD_503 03-18-2011 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guihong (Post 303340)
One could point to any number of atrocities carried out by any of the "big three" religions, far worse than Phelps. I know that's controversial to say, but Phelps (so far) has not killed anyone, nor exiled people, or tried to wipe out an entire group.

While I find them and their message repugnant, I disagree with a "hate speech" law. Who would decide what's hate speech and what isn't? Who would decide the penalties? We'd have a whole lot of people in prison if someone got the power to just lock them up for saying something they didn't like. I'd be scared to death much more of my speech watched by whatever political party was in power, than a tiny group carrying signs. China, for example. A beautiful country and people, but the most terrifying experience of my life.

I have every sympathy with the family of the serviceman who brought suit all the way to the Supreme Court. I too wish the Phelps would just go away. But if you silence one, you silence all.

Hate speech laws are in place in Canada and the European Union. Are you really saying that you're scared to death of what Canada and the EU might do to you but aren't particularly as concerned about the Westboro Church and other larger orgs like them? Do you not see how the tolerance of hate speech in the US just might have affected the current nature of LGBT rights in the US (same sex marriage, DADT, anti-descrimination laws etc.) compared with many other western nations that do implement hate speech laws?

Just thought I'd add some of the hate speech laws employed by some of the most liberal (and I would say some of the "most free") and tolerant nations in the world today. Source for everything below is good ol' wikipedia.

In Canada, advocating genocide or inciting hatred against any 'identifiable group' is an indictable offence under the Criminal Code of Canada with maximum prison terms of two to fourteen years. An 'identifiable group' is defined as 'any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.' It makes exceptions for cases of statements of truth, and subjects of public debate and religious doctrine. The landmark judicial decision on the constitutionality of this law was R. v. Keegstra (1990)

Denmark prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten, ridicule or hold in contempt a group due to race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation.

Finland prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or insult a national, racial, ethnic or religious group or a similar group.

France prohibits by its penal code and by its press laws public and private communication which is defamatory or insulting, or which incites discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or a group of persons on account of place of origin, ethnicity or lack thereof, nationality, race, specific religion, sex, sexual orientation, or handicap. The law prohibits declarations that justify or deny crimes against humanity, for example, the Holocaust (Gayssot Act).

In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("Sedition") is a punishable offense under Section 130 of the Strafgesetzbuch (Germany's criminal code) and can lead to up to five years imprisonment. Section 130 makes it a crime to publicly incite hatred against parts of the population or to call for violent or arbitrary measures against them or to insult, maliciously slur or defame them in a manner violating their (constitutionally protected) human dignity. Thus for instance it is illegal to publicly call certain ethnic groups "maggots" or "freeloaders". Volksverhetzung is punishable in Germany even if committed abroad and even if committed by non-German citizens, if only the incitement of hatred takes effect within German territory, e.g. the seditious sentiment was expressed in German writ or speech and made accessible in Germany (German criminal code's Principle of Ubiquity, Section 9 §1 Alt. 3 and 4 of the Strafgesetzbuch).

In Iceland, the hate speech law is not confined to inciting hatred, as one can see from Article 233 a. in the Icelandic Penal Code, but includes simply expressing such hatred publicly:

Anyone who in a ridiculing, slanderous, insulting, threatening or any other manner publicly assaults a person or a group of people on the basis of their nationality, skin colour, race, religion or sexual orientation, shall be fined or jailed for up to 2 years. (The word "assault" in this context does not refer to physical violence, only to expressions of hatred.)

In Ireland, the right to free speech is guaranteed under the Constitution (Article 40.6.1.i). However, the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act, proscribes words or behaviours which are "threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred" against "a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation."

The Dutch penal code prohibits both insulting a group (article 137c) and inciting hatred, discrimination or violence (article 137d). The definition of the offences as outlined in the penal code is as follows:

* Article 137c: He who publicly, orally, in writing or graphically, intentionally expresses himself insultingly regarding a group of people because of their race, their religion or their life philosophy, their heterosexual or homosexual orientation or their physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by imprisonment of no more than a year or a monetary penalty of the third category.[17]
* Article 137d: He who publicly, orally, in writing or graphically, incites hatred against, discrimination of or violent action against person or belongings of people because of their race, their religion or their life philosophy, their gender, their heterosexual or homosexual orientation of their physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by imprisonment of no more than a year or a monetary penalty of the third category.[18]

In January 2009, a court in Amsterdam ordered the prosecution of Geert Wilders, a Dutch Member of Parliament, for breaching articles 137c and 137d.[19] The trial is ongoing as of February 2011.

Norway prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or ridicule someone or that incite hatred, persecution or contempt for someone due to their skin colour, ethnic origin, homosexual life style or orientation or, religion or philosophy of life.

Sweden prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or express disrespect for an ethnic group or similar group regarding their race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation.

In Switzerland public discrimination or invoking to rancor against persons or a group of people because of their race, ethnicity, is getting penalized with a term of imprisonment until 3 years or a mulct. In 1934, the authorities of the Basel-Stadt canton criminalized anti-Jewish hate speech, e.g. the accusation of ritual murders, mostly in reaction against a pro-nazi antisemitic group and newspaper, the Volksbund.

Gráinne 03-18-2011 01:32 PM

OK, well, we obviously have different opinions, and I feel like mine isn't the "right" one. Back to the light posts I go.

Rockinonahigh 03-18-2011 03:39 PM

Westboro is a cult let by hate mongers who really beleave in what they do..try to breed more hate.Most are, as I hear are inbred to stregenthen the line of bigatry and hate.They also are just plane nuts,once I watched one of them talking to a reporter..the look on her face was like she had lost touch with the real world.The bloodshot eyes,angry ways he spoke of anything that didnt agree with there way of life..I expected her to stroke out with her next breath.In this country we have freedom of speach..but when it becone devisive as well as very hurt full and done with willfull intent to cause harm in any and all ways.They should be stoped as insagators of hate speach,instagteing a riot ..not to mention going against what this country stands for...treason is added.When they protest at a soulders funiral I peraonaly strongly wish they would be put on a plane then sent to a country where they dont have the ablity to do this awful retoric of theres.Since they do there best to go against what Americe stands for,let then see what its like to deal with goverments and people who wont take a moment ot call them out then pay the penalty for hate.The walls of hell are lined with people like westboro.

Andrew, Jr. 03-18-2011 03:47 PM


I really do think it is just a matter of time before someone takes matters in their own hands. Too many of our soldiers are coming home in body bags or wounded in someway. Someone who is talking & behaving at funerals like Phelps & his cult...I think the clock is ticking if you ask me.

The_Lady_Snow 03-18-2011 04:18 PM

I hope no one decides to take matters into their own hands with these types, they are smart enough to protest in a manner that is not only constitutional but orderly. Vigilante behaviours will only fatten up their bank and will allow them to deflect by being victims. Best way to handle protest the same way and keep them out of view and rev up them bikes so they are not heard.

Andrew, Jr. 03-18-2011 04:20 PM


I agree Lady Snow, but these are such different times. The public is very off now. Common sense seems to be un-common now.

Luv 03-18-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 303804)
I hope no one decides to take matters into their own hands with these types, they are smart enough to protest in a manner that is not only constitutional but orderly. Vigilante behaviours will only fatten up their bank and will allow them to deflect by being victims. Best way to handle protest the same way and keep them out of view and rev up them bikes so they are not heard.

They have been chased off several times..there are vid's on you tube

The_Lady_Snow 03-18-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv (Post 303835)
They have been chased off several times..there are vid's on you tube

I'm fully aware they can be discouraged I've attended a few counter protests in silence Luv and it's fucking hard when you read their signs and see their kids next to them being just as vile.

Luv 03-18-2011 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 303839)
I'm fully aware they can be discouraged I've attended a few counter protests in silence Luv and it's fucking hard when you read their signs and see their kids next to them being just as vile.

well they are some of the most vile "things" I have seen in my life . Id love to shove their signs where the sun dont shine on them :rainbowAfro:

suebee 03-23-2011 04:38 PM

Westboro Baptist Church to picket Elizabeth Taylor's funeral
 
I guess we should have expected it. LINK

Jess 03-23-2011 04:57 PM

wow... just...wow

when you think they couldn't sink any lower, they seem to have found a shovel. what terribly small sad lives they must lead.

Spork 03-23-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suebee (Post 306879)
I guess we should have expected it. LINK

If they go ahead with that, I hope people remember her and her wishes, and do not fall for their bait. :vigil:

Miss Scarlett 03-23-2011 07:22 PM

I like to take out my hostility on Phelps and his stupidity here.
When I was Co-chair of our local Pride we actually discussed adding that link to our web site...:innocent:

Miss Scarlett 03-23-2011 07:57 PM

Seaford, Delaware in 2006


Luv 03-23-2011 08:41 PM

I'm not one who wish's bad on people..but in this case..I hope people come out in droves to honor Elizabeth Taylor,,but I also hope they take their signs and rip them up and hit em in the heads :hammer: with them and drive em off :bolt:. I dont know who their God is,,but it sure isnt the God of the Bible that I know !

Ms. Tabitha 03-24-2011 01:35 PM

Westboro wants to picket Elizabeth Taylors Funeral
 
Anti-gay church plans to picket Taylor's funeral

Westboro Baptist Church threatened, but didn't protest at Ledger's burial

Much as it threatened to do at the funerals of Heath Ledger and Natasha Richardson, the small Kansas church — which has notoriously picketed the funerals of fallen U.S. soldiers as part of a crusade against homosexuality — is directing its rhetoric at Hollywood in threatening to protest at Elizabeth Taylor's funeral.
"No RIP Elizabeth Taylor who spent her life in adultery and enabling proud f-gs. They cuss her in hell today.

'Westboro will picket funeral!" tweeted Margie Phelps, daughter of Westboro Baptist Church pastor Fred Phelps.
Though if the past is any guide...
They may be all (hate) talk. Despite threats, the group were apparently no-shows at Richardson's funeral, and Ledger's funeral in Australia was a private ceremony.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 8-1 earlier this month that the Westboro congregation was protected by the First Amendment — if not standards of human decency — when it protested at the funeral of a Marine who had died in Iraq, with some people wielding signs that read "God Hates F-gs" and "America Is Doomed."

The soldier's father sued the congregation for sizable damages and won, but the appeals process ultimately led to the high court.
"Fred Phelps and his vitriolic anti-gay followers are simply trying to exploit their so-called 'faith' by spreading messages of hate at a time when Americans are grieving the loss of an extraordinary woman, actress and advocate," GLAAD president Jarrett Barrios tells E! News.

"Overwhelmingly, communities of faith are beginning to embrace lesbian, gay bisexual and transgender congregants and sending messages that promote equality for all. GLAAD is urging media to share Elizabeth Taylor's legacy with stories of hope and acceptance, and which highlight her life's work to create a world in which everyone is respected and valued for who they are."
Taylor, who died Wednesday at 79 after being in ill health for some time, was a tireless advocate for AIDS awareness and research and is revered by the gay community for her support and philanthropy.
"It's impossible to underestimate Elizabeth Taylor's impact on the fight against AIDS from the very beginning," said Craig E. Thompson, executive director of AIDS Project Los Angeles. "We're simply devastated by her loss."
"Today, we've lost one of the boldest advocates our community has seen," he added, "but her tremendous impact lives with us." Like us on Facebook

The two-time Oscar winner cofounded the American Foundation of AIDS Research, or amFAR, which also paid its respects to its late "Founding International Chairman" Wednesday.
"Dame Elizabeth's compassion, radiance, and generosity of spirit will be greatly missed by us all," the organization said in a statement. "She leaves a monumental legacy that has improved and extended millions of lives and will enrich countless more for generations to come."
But while there will surely be a memorial in Hollywood to commemorate the iconic star, the issue of where she'll be laid to rest isn't exactly set in stone. In recent years, Taylor had said that she wanted to be buried next to two-time husband Richard Burton in Wales.
Wherever the grand dame can rest in peace, we're all for it.

By Natalie Finn

Luv 03-24-2011 07:21 PM

Westboro wont get the chance to picket..Elizabeth has been buried already..


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110324/...l6dGF5bG9yYnVy

Andrew, Jr. 03-25-2011 05:15 PM


On the 6pm local news the WBC has applied to protest at a soldier being buried in Westminster, MD. Now, if the State of MD gives them the permit, God help us all. I am not sure of what will happen.

Nat 08-07-2012 08:12 PM



Bravo to Nate Phelps for speaking up against Westboro and his dad.

blush 08-07-2012 08:44 PM

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2012/08...y-funerals.php

About Obama's signing the law that restricts picketing military funerals

Sheridan 11-01-2013 05:56 AM

Westboro Baptist Church
 
Westboro Baptist Church is a religious hate group, using religious passages to try and prove their hatred towards others is justified. They hate everyone I think , but they do hate the LGBTQ community just a little more in that special way only they can, nasty signs and screaming hate words to random people passing by. :jester:

macele 11-01-2013 07:00 AM

i wouldn't want to engage with any of these people. they have a deep dark hatred inside of them. engaging only leads to anger. that's what they want. refuse them acknowledgement.

it's not about being baptist. or methodist. pentecostal. and so on. it's hate. a hateful heart.


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