Absolutely. If there were any truth to the nonsense that there's a correlation between one's stance on drugs and one's parental status, then there wouldn't be any junkie parents in the world.

I work for a clinic that treats people who have become addicted to prescription drugs.

We also treat Heroin and cocaine addictions also.

I can not tell the desperation apart, when these people first come into treatment. Without reading the charts, all I see are the miserable symptoms of withdrawl.


Knowing this, would I make it legal? Hell yeah. Making it illegal really only punishes the families, and makes the cycles of addiction worse, due to the compound effect of secretive shame, the harrassment of law enforcement- and the financial drain that at this point benfits NOT A DAMN person worth having it. Use the money from taxes and what-not for education and then treatment if/when addiction happens.

I dont see a difference, outside of cultural acceptance, of a prescribed pill vs a street drug. They are all hard drugs. The road to recovery is brutal for all of them. Less likely for Heroin? Perhaps. But I do believe a large portion of that is due to the very nature of what it takes to AQUIRE those drugs, and that has to do with it being illegal, and not regulated.

So, just in case you were wondering, YES I do believe we need to change the way prescription drugs are regulated in this country. The current system has some doctors scared to medicate patients when they have pain, have other doctors just writing carte blanc scripts that get sold on the black market. Our system is NOT working. And then there are the countless who are no longer even seeking medical advice, and aquiring meds somehow on their own without medical training at all. These things scare me. Our system does not work.
I dont see this changing though. Currently the system is benifiting pharmaceutical companies, and they pay the politicians.

If you want something changed, you dont protest, you shell out cash. If this is jaded, I am willing to look at another view. For today, this is my opinion.

So, please help me here. Regulated, prescribed drugs are being abused, so we need all drugs no matter of the consequence of taking them to be legal? This will help you in your daily encounters with addicts how?

I am seriously amazed and confused by this position within our community. A community laden with addiction.

I appreciate your position. Thanks for clarifying.

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

I pm'd you the quote and post number.

You are completely missing my point. My point being that being a parent or not being a parent has NO correlation to my (or anybodies) political or moral ideas. HOW someone becomes a parent doesn't change this.

Change what? Change the fact that not having children is irrelevant to my thoughts/feelings on the subject? Again, you are missing my point and not making any sense.

Now I shall go walk to the grocery store. Toodles, bfp-people.

Addiction is a DISEASE.

Alcohol is legal. Oxycontin is legal. Where I live, medicinal marijuana is legal.

Regulate the disease, take away the criminal element of most substances and let doctors treat addiction patients in offices, in a medical setting where the disease can be addressed.

It would help me in my daily encounters with addicts because I would not worry about somebody robbing my home, stealing my car, etc. etc., in order to procure illegal substances. Instead, a medical professional can help the addict and treat the disease.

Imagine the taking back of neighborhoods? The removal of the allure of quick cash selling crack/heroin/meth on the street corner for fast big cash? We'd get our youth back, and our future may not look so bleak.j

I don't think it is completely crazy to think about.

Yes, absolutely someone can be raped without drugs being involved. It is an act of violence as well as opportunity. Unfortunately, the "opportunity" aspect increases dramatically under the influence of drugs. Yes, indeed a topic for another discussion.

Yes, agreed it should be a deterrent, just like vomiting with heroin would make normal folks go "ewwwwwwwww". However, in the throes of addiction folks will do insane things to get that "high". Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier? Why not focus the energy into healthier options? Like equal human rights? Something that creates CORE issues within folks who turn to drugs out of debased self esteem? Like REAL healthcare.. something that sends chronic pain patients to street drugs for relief?

Go to the REAL shit instead of the bogus trappings is all i am thinking.

I agree with your points and truly do appreciate the discourse.

I do get your point and agree that "choosing" to not have children is not an immoral act. It is a choice. I chose the same. My point was for addicts, sometimes those options aren't there. They are victims to their disease. Period.

Drug addicts are humans too. Legalizing drugs just might give them a chance at equality.

BTW, its lack of heroin that makes one vomit. Same with vicodin or any other opiate based pain reliever. Chronic pain patients are treated like criminals at the local pharmacy every day...

Most people that opt for narcotics like crystal meth ,heroin,crack, and cocaine are gonna most likely continue on that road. Choosing to enslave one's self to an addiction goes much deeper than the drugs available on the street or the drugs that are legal. I don't think recreational experiences will satisfy that need. I think we would see only a small percentage of addicts be able to sustain themselves with pot or other less addictive drugs alone.
Experimental use of narcotics will probably remain the same.

Sorry to disagree with your logic, although I can see it. I don't see where making becoming addicted easier will make getting treatment any better. They don't give federal money now for addicts. Why would that change? There was a short period in the 80's where "treatment" was the trendy thing to do and insurance companies actually paid for it. Those days are way over and it is now "optional". Imagine that. It's optional to get treatment, as it is optional to become an addict. So says Blue Cross.

I try to see the point in legalizing highly addictive chemicals, but sorry, I just don't.

agreed.

making it *legal* isn't going to make me want to use meth/crack/whatever.

this also would de-criminalize the addict.

also, anything can make an addict fixate--have you seen those people that have 'loving relationships' with inanimate objects like the eiffel tower?

(i say addict/fixate and i do think that addiction and your 'drug of choice' takes the place of a REAL relationship, when an addict is in an active-addiction stage)

Sure. And thanks. I DO see a correlation between drug abuse and core issues such as self esteem/ poverty/ childhood abuse.. the list goes on. How many addicts do you know grew up with a complete sense of self? That "something" wasn't wrong with them in their sense of self worth? ALL of the core issues stem from feeling less than and seeking an easy way to "escape" that dark place.

Whether it being gay/ poor/ of color/ differently abled.. such a huge part of our country grows up feeling "othered" as it were that they seek solace in drugs/ alcohol/ sex. As adults we see it as "choice", but as a child who starts using early on, it is just surviving.

Make marijuana legal, sure. It has it's place. As for the rest, keep it illegal and force our legislators to step up and do the right thing for our people. Make discrimination in all forms illegal. Make education the priority for our youth and stop wasting funds on bullshit like sports., or 6 billion for NASA when we have such high unemployment. Tax corporations who send our jobs overseas and use slave labor in other countries while our people are without jobs. Bust up labor unions , which had their purpose in the beginnings but now just price common labor too high for companies to pay, while all of the rights that were needed back in the day are part of equal employment opportunity. We have no need for the high cost of unions today., Half of the folks are unemployed part of the year anyway cause they are on strike. Make immigration easier for folks truly just trying to make a new start.

We have so many common sense things that can be done to make America safe and profitable again and we are weighlayed daily by our "elected" officials. I don't think we are as "under-informed" as folks like to say, moreover we are over-stimulated by floods of half truths coming at us from every direction. More folks need to settle down and look around them and see what really is "real".

What is real is that we need to do away with the two party system as neither are any longer what they say they are. We need to do away with the electoral college ( cause no one is unable to vote anymore which was it's purpose) and the public vote can truly count again. We need to demand resumes from our candidates and see what the hell they have really done and not vote by popularity. If we truly want to be a country run by the people/ for the people, then the people need to get off our ass and hold our representatives responsible to carry out our wishes.

My opinions only and sorry to blurt them out here, I just see so many circular conversations regarding similar ( though worded differently) situations that it makes my skin crawl.

It's okay. We can totally agree to disagree. I don't think decriminalization will make becoming an addict any easier.

When I walk down the alcohol aisle in my supermarket? I always people watch who is buying booze. Because anyone buying it could be an alcoholic, but not everyone buying it is an alcoholic. They're walking by the same racks of booze after all.

I was almost killed by a drunk driver, but because it was a hit & run case when we got to court he was sentence to the maximum allowed for hit & run. Four years. I pleaded with the court to send him to a rehabilitation facility or to at least order AA when he paroled. The law didn't allow for that. I don't think prison time is going to help this young man at ALL but rather send out an angrier more volatile person. Who most likely will drink and drive again. How is that justice for either one of us or for potential victims?

As for the Blue Cross? Often times when you have cancer they deem chemo "not medically necessary" so yeah. They are the devil because they are allowed to be.

California hopefully passes that measure and then the rest of the country will be sure to follow... not only will that measure help all people access marijuana if they want to without legal retribution but it will also help California out with its huge deficit and take the money away from the cartels and the criminals....

also Atlast...i know a lot of people that do not like smoking it so they use the vaporizer method, clean and smoke free with all the benefits of the THC...might be something that could help you with your pain....

and on the subject of rape victims---here is something that can acutally help victims of rape and ptsd if it were legal....MDMA and Psyilociban--magic mushrooms and LSD

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100423/...N5Y2hlZGVsaWN0

Psychedelic research organization: http://www.maps.org

For the sake of disclosure.........

I have done damn near every street drug in every way you can think of and probably some you can't......laughin.... starting back in 1970 when I was 18 yrs old. So I have a bit of experience around this. I gave all that shit up 20-25 years ago. I'm just a pot smoker now and I have a medical marijuana card (I have RA). You could not pay me enough money to do white powder every again. Mother Nature's hallucinogens (mushrooms, peyote).....well I might do them again....although I am taking way to many pharmaceuticals and I worry about interactions.

I say legalize every drug on the street........all of them and make needles available for free at every drugstore (this would help out diabetics cuz they use the same needles junkies use). Legalize, tax, control the manufacture and distribution of said drugs. Treat them like alcohol and tobacco with age restrictions. It's really a no-brainer in my mind. Europe has models that work well for this.

Legalize prostitution also, but that is another thread.

There are other abstinence based recovery programs. AA is not the only game in town. LifeRing is one of them and it doesn't require powerlessness or giving up control to some higher power/god. It is against the law for a court to mandate AA as the treatment program. Courts can mandate treatment, but they can't say it has to be AA/12 Step based.

No one knows why one becomes an addict. It is not a character defect. People who have perfectly normal self esteem can be addicted to any substance. It does not run in families despite what folks say....there is no data to back that up. I personally don't subscribe to the 'disease' model. That was thought up so the health insurance companies and treatment programs could make big time bucks treating the disease. Addiction is a change in brain chemistry.....particularly in the dopamine (the pleasure chemical) pathways.

Oxycontin is a brand name for oxycodone....so is Percocet, Percodan, etc. Oxycontin is a time released version and was approved in the mid 90's. Percocet/Percodan have been around since the mid 70's. It is similar to morphine and is used for chronic pain. The FDA controls drugs and to my knowledge no state has said these drugs cannot be sold in their state..........I'm not sure they can and it would be incredibly stupid if they did.

ok done I think...........but back to the original question and as I have said many times over many years........legalize them all......you can't control what is illegal.

I now have the munchies....:D

Good to know that the courts can't demand a person goes to AA specifically. I get (believe me, I do!) that AA has done a world of good for some people - but the whole god thing kinda squicks me out. I always felt like they were just encouraging people to replace one crutch with another, you know?

Just to let ya know... I never once used heredity as a premise for addiction , although some science does say it plays a role.

While I do see professional sports as bull shit, that is just my opinion and I also played sports in school and found great commraderie in the kinship of completing a common goal.

I don't know how you define Human Rights vs Equal rights, nor do you know how I do as we have not directly addressed this, so I do not understand how you can so readily disagree.

I am sorry you have a headache. Feel better.

Hah! Lightweight. ;) I will see your sugar induced headache and raise you a caffeine-withdrawl headache -and- upset stomache. (I get a headache and throw up if I don't get enough coffee - speaking of which...I need to go make another pot.)

I wonder why the secretary at the AA meetings signs court cards at the end of meeting then?

I go with a *friend* (wink wink nudge nudge) to open meetings and listen. I have noticed that the God quotient squicks many people out. The program HAS helped oodles of people, so whatever works.

The secretary signs it so the court knows they are going to meetings. LifeRing conveners sign those documents also. So do the facilitators of other recovery meetings.

You would be surprized at the data on all recovery programs. More folks get clean and sober without a program than with a program.....and no they are not what AA calls 'dry drunks'.........

this is a derail I think............

headaches are contagious...........I have one now......my cure is:

hot black tea and a big fat joint...........and no stomach upset......

:riding2: