that was SUCH a let down. pout.

Ok the supervisor should not have said anything and kept his comments to himself...but actually it comes down to locker room humor.....
or....So do you really think your medical dr, dentist, teacher, priest, therapist...etc has not sat and talked to someone aobut "their job" and told...funny stories, or other things?

Let's be honest, you dont think it is funny when i relay the story of the:

Gynecologist who walked in an examining room sat down to give a 50 yr old patient an internal exam and on the "table...where the instruments were...was a little note written....by the nurse that said...something old...something blue.......gynocologist looked up at the nurse quizzicly and she smirked he then put on his gloves lube and stuff and...turned and there was a nice big piece of BLUE toilet paper hanging from the woman's...ass"

The ER patient that came in with a...................... up his...............


The Minister who told me how he had given funeral eulogy that was so inspiring and touching that everyone at the service did not just smile at times...but by the end they had their heads buried in their hands...even tho Bob's wife did not seem to touched by it.......did I tell the minister the deceased's name was Frank?...........have I gone beyond the call of professionalism by relaying that true story?

Or the mammogram tech that when having lunch with fellow workers says..omg i had a patient today and it took 4 xrays to get the entire left boob!
And a co-worker responds hell I had one that was so flat chested..i thought she had her back to the machine! all that xray film for a nipple!

This type of discussion has been going on since the day you came out of a set of lips or a womb on your birthday.....dr's have said oh did u see that baby ...nurses have said ........... and it will continue until your body is turned to ash..if you are going to worry about it,,you may as well crawl under a rock and hide...cause in the greater scheme of things its only a body, a strap on, a cock, a bound chest, an O ring, a piercing,,,a crotch,,,,a boob....hell wrap the damn cock in aluminum foil, wear a foil bra.....have some fun and make them pat you down and smile and wink at the person.

Well maybe I am just too relaxed about the issue but I don't really care it makes no difference especially if it will stream line the wait to get through the damn screening in all airports especially La Guardia and O' Hare then I dont give a damn. If someone wants to sit and stare at shriveled cock and sagging breasts all day then so be it. With as much one way traveling and my last name I am already red flagged so I get patted down 8 out of 10 times I get on a plane, whats one more step especially if it could possibly prevent a terrorist.

Flying is a priviledge and in order for us to keep people safe sometime we all must sacrifice comfort for a moment.

X-ray my WHAT???
 

I've got one word for this all.....AMTRAK.....wait..no...two words....BOAT...
Never will I fly let alone be subjected to this horrible abuse of 'athority'.

Dean Thoreau..U r right bout the humor,after I read you post I laughd a bit and thought why the hell not.

backscatter solution !!!!
 

The Airport Solution

Here's a solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at the
airports.

Have a booth that you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will
detonate any explosive device you may have on you.

It would be a win-win for everyone, and there would be none of this crap
about racial profiling and this method would eliminate a long and expensive
trial. Justice would be swift and efficient. Case closed!

This is so simple that it's brilliant. I can see it now: you're in the
airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion.
Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system, "Attention
standby passengers we now have a seat available on flight number..."



:harley:

John T: I don't understand how a sexual assault could be made a condition of my flying.
TSA Lady: This is not considered a sexual assault.
John T: It would be if you weren't the government.

The prices we pay in this world in which we live.

When I fly, I follow the rules. No way around it. Follow rules or stay on the ground.

Someone mentioned it is optional. I say needs to be mandatory that everyone must have the scan or no one gets scanned.

Perhaps I am missing something here but what purpose does "optional" serve?

http://wewontfly.com

It is not a privilege to fly but it is a right to ensure privacy of one's self. It's interesting to see where the outcry is coming from this. The trans community has been speaking out against the back scatter scanners for a while since it violates our right to privacy (regardless of what is said as to how the info isn't kept, it has been proven otherwise) as well they have received sensitivity training in regards to trans individuals (so far, I've never been challenged).

I try to avoid the back scatter simply because of the amount of travel I do. There are airports/transportation systems elsewhere in the world (Israel, I believe) who have far more stringent rules. I just wish TSA had a "business" travelers line so I'm behind people who know the rules, get through and go on.

the frustrating thing about all of this xray machine stuff is it is not necessary.
they have dogs to do the sniffing so i dont understand why they deem this a necessary avenue. it is a ridiculous solution and to boot they want to be able to also pat our bodies down in ways that make me cringe!!!

:mohawk:

i don't have a problem with it. i hate to fly, but i do twice a year or more. Whatever it takes to be safe and to get the job done quickly works for me.

It's only optional because there was initially enough concern that the TSA acquiesced and allowed pat-downs. The pat downs are quite invasive and frankly border on assault. In addition TSA agents are hassling individuals who respectfully opt-for pat downs.

The bottom line is there is zero validity for the need for these machines. They were put into play because someone stood to make a great deal of money.

They do not detect anything in bodily cavities.

To date TSA has stopped zero terrorists at TSA checkpoints.

It's theatre, pure and simple.

It cannot guarantee yours, or anyone else's, safety. And to think that it does is just silly. I'm glad it makes you feel better to walk through them, but please don't fool yourself that it's solving anything.

We are allowing defense and security contractors to lobby the government to put million dollar machines in place in lieu of doing that actual hard work of fixing the issues which make us targets for terrorists. In lieu of doing the challenging, yet more beneficial work, of analyzing potential threats.

It should make you cringe. The reason it's been done, aside from the fact that it made someone a lot of money is theatre. Making people feel like the government was doing something. The more important factors, such as changing the way airline crews are trained to deal with hijackers, reinforcing cockpit doors and requiring additional baggage screening weren't things that the public could see as actions. These continued infringements on our privacy, our movement and our persons are actions the public can see and say "well, it's for our own good." But it's not. It just costs us money. In taxes, in time that we have to pay a babysitter, in time when we could be working, in time in general. It just costs.

See above. Please follow the money. Who really stands to gain by this?


______

I'm sorry folks, In the first ten days of this month I had three horrific flying experiences and I've heard of dozens more from people I know and trust.

I am, by and large, a respectful, courteous flyer. But I've reached my limits. I'll continue to treat others with respect when I fly, but I will not submit to the humiliating and invasive scanners. I did it once, because I wanted to know what I was dealing with. It was, in a word, demoralizing.

To walk between two monolithic structures and be told to stand perfectly still, raise your hands above your head and wait made me feel as those I was waiting to be arrested, or worse, executed.

When I exited the machine I was told to wait and the agent radioed that there was a "female anomaly" and they were trying to determine if I would need a pat down. After five minutes I was allowed to go without a pat down.

I've since opted out and been subjected to very aggressive pat-downs. When you realize that you've been intimate with individuals who haven't touched you in places a government agent is now touching you it's too much.

Think about that for a minute before you say "doesn't bother me". How will it bother you when it's your lover or your mother or your child?

We go through this because over system of government allows lobbyists to head up federal agencies. LINK

Perhaps if your government wants to make you "safe" from "terrorists" it should instead explore what, exactly, it does that pisses people off so much. And then fucking stop doing that.

http://consumerist.com/2010/09/pregn...body-scan.html

That's bullshit. And the many of the comments on the article are so sexist. I only had to reach the first page of comments to see a bunch of jackasses going on about how her pregnancy hormones were obviously making her unreasonable.

Gross.

Please allow me this indulgence ...
 

This puts things into incredibly sharp focus for me.

Let's go back to the 9/11 tragedy for a moment.

How about the people in the plane that went down in the Pennsylvania field?
They did not go down instantly. Due to events that were transpiring on their plane, they had a pretty good idea they would not make it. Try and put yourself in their position for just a minute. (although that is impossible to even imagine what a horrible feeling) Those poor souls had to endure absolute fucking terror for a long time as their situation became progressively worse on their airplane.

Pretend those people had been given these two choices that day before they boarded the plane.

Keep this in mind. This is a little exercise in the absolute. There can be no what ifs, no questions, no altering of the choices, no saying this could never happen, no saying this type of guarantee could never be provided. Remember this is a hypothetical scenario, it is only pretend.
Their only two selections are listed below:
1.
Go through what we have to undergo today in order to travel by plane. If they willingly agree to this, they are guaranteed personal safety.
2.
Board the plane exactly as they did that day - take their chances because they are highly indignant and sick of being intimidated by terrorism.

Wonder what their choice would be.
Wonder what your choice would be.
I know what mine would be.

I'll see your guilt and raise you manipulation.

note back to Gemme
 

Gemme,
Thanks for your comments on my post. There is a great deal more than just one fly in the ointment in my little discussion. But remember, the entire thing was based on "let's pretend." I agree, there is no way the guarantee could EVER be provided in a bazillion years.

Better options would be great. Also, I read the article about the pregnant woman. It made me very, very angry. So sexist as someone already pointed out.

Today I have freedom to chose if I travel by plane, drive or stay home. I respect anyone's ideas and choices about their own lives. We are all different. We have different agendas and different life experiences in our past. I was in the army guard as a weekend warrior type in my 20s. If I had been full time military and had made a career of it, I am positive I would feel differently about this situation than what I feel now. My mindset would have incorporated "militant mindset."

(From this point on, my comments are to the general open forum and not directed at Gemme in any way.)

I don't buy into "SHOULD'VEs" from anyone. When I agree with someone, it is the result of what I see as best for me and not because I allowed someone to should've all over me. :)

Really? Guarantee? Bwahhahaha. Sure thing, pal.

And? My memory is pretty awesome about this stuff because it impacted me. Think back, please... to the training that air crews had... which was absolute cooperation with hijackers.

I have zero doubt those people suffered unbearable torment ONCE THEY REALIZED they were not going to land safely anywhere. But that realization likely did not come until the very last moments of their lives. Whereas the people of Flight 93, which went down in Pennsylvania, figured it out and tried to over take the hijackers.

Up until those attacks that was the standard operating procedures of hijackers. Take control of a plane (via intimidation of the crew and passengers) and demand the plane be flown to an alternate location and make demands. Keep passengers and crew until such time your demands are met.

There is no way in hell that works any more. Just won't. Today, if a passenger were to try to overtake the flight they would be taken down by other passengers.

The choice isn't about indignation. The choice is about paranoia and reality. When the tactics that the government employs makes sense, I will gladly submit to enhanced security measures.

In the meantime I'll happily move through airports in countries which have suffered innumerable terrorist attacks with security measures that are not meaningless.

Security theater or real security. That's the choice we should have. And I know my choice.

Latest news: 100 images leaked.

Obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request after it was discovered that agents in Florida had, perhaps illegally, saved the images.

I don't for one minute beleive that some assbites will do this- because they are assbites. They should be prosecuted for this is in fact, they broke the law. There are always idiots like this that will take advantage of a situation.

back to Corky
 

Corky, I totally respect whatever stance you take. It is yours, serves you and belongs to you. I do not feel any need to have opinions similar to yours. You elected to make a career in the military, correct? From my very, very limited experience in the military, I noticed there were certain things that my mind was forced into embracing and accepting. It was your choice to sign up and it is no secret the military platform is designed to decrease individual luxuries. I can very easily see why your opinions on this topic in here are what they are.

As I mentioned, had I been career military, my comments in this particular thread would not be the same as what I have presented. I am sure of that.

response to AtLastHome's post
 

Yep ... you are correct. There will always be jerks waiting for an opportunity to take advantage of anything and everything.

To Corkey
 

Corkey, my apologies. You wrote this in previous post:

"I don't easily give up my freedoms, seeing how I fought for them, and neither should you. If we do so then the terrorists have indeed won."

I did that assume thing after I read the part where you said "seeing how I fought for them"

By the way, weatherboi informed me in a little note that I spelled your name incorrectly not once, but twice. Thanks weatherboi! :)

Waldo ...
 

Hey Waldo -

Your opening comment, which is:

"Really? Guarantee? Bwahhahaha. Sure thing, pal."

leads me to believe you did not understand it was a hypothetical, totally unrealistic situation I made up ... as in "pretend like."

A lot of the rest of what you said was a good history refresher. Much of it I agreed with.

Waldo, my pal - everyone was impacted. Our whole fucking nation was tramatized.

You don't mind me calling you pal, do you? I see you used that endearing term towards me. ;) LOL!

This has been interesting discussion. I am out of here. Past my bedtime.

Um... but it's not. It's a real situation which did, in fact, happen. And the scanners and the pat-downs are also real. You are not asking a hypothetical question at all. What you are asking is a moot question. It's really not my fault you don't understand the concept.

It's a moot question because even if the people on that plane submitted to the scans and the pat-downs it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Heck, they could have submitted to cavity searches and it wouldn't have changed one thing. It wasn't explosives or guns and even knives. The hijackers had box-cutters. Which, at the time, were perfectly acceptable to fly with. Box-cutters.

But you're right. Everyone was impacted and my own impact is no greater than that of anyone else. But then again, that was my point, you see?

And no, I don't mind you calling me "pal". I do mind you doing it in a way which comes across, here in writing, like some sort of posturing, but that's only because I find that sort of behavior to be annoying and childish.

Waldo ...
 

......

Ok
:)

I most likely will not stop flying over this, but I find the situation traumatizing. There are many, many people who (like me) have experienced sexual trauma, and the situation feels really violative. There are a lot of people who don't have a problem with it - which is swell for you. But I totally understand that guy when he says that basically he doesn't want to have to endure sexual assault to fly. That is what it feels like to me to have to choose between a naked pic and being thoroughly groped - and if you freak out and want to leave, you could face an 11k fine.

I have some PTSD symptoms, but not nearly as bad as others I've known. Just *thinking* about this situation is pretty triggering to me, but I think I could force myself to go through with it if there were no other choice. (And when I say, "it," I mean the patdown most likely because that will be a woman and I will be able to see her face - and because my "pat-down" can't be "leaked" - all of which are slightly better though still potentially very traumatizing depending on how it goes. I've had no problems with the old-style back-of-hands patdowns, but the fingers and palms patdowns sound pretty frightening to me.

The pictures that were leaked are both comforting and upsetting. Comforting because they are far more obscuring than the backscatter naked pics on the first page of this thread. Upsetting because of the lies TSA has told about how they aren't saved or sent anywhere.

I don't think this situation is alright at all. I think if I were a mom, I would be even less alright with my child facing these choices.

I would prefer to take the chance on a one-in-gazillion terrorist attack than be violated by our government every time I fly.

Andrea

And because you can't make up stuff this good, the NYT writes about the TSA being concerned at the growing support for National Opt Out Day.

The author of the piece writes: "Do the imagers, for example, detect sanitary napkins? Yes. Does that then necessitate a pat-down? The T.S.A. couldn’t say. Screeners, the T.S.A. has said, are expected to exercise some discretion."

Feministing has a great write up about that little gem.