Okay heres some questions I would like to throw out there and hear some feed back.

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?
Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?
If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before, or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

stone butches...
Has being stone been greeted with the wide eye " your Kiddings" like I described in a previous post in this thread?

Do you tell people you are stone, I mean in the general community, not Butch-femme? is it something personal you only share with your partner?...
Honestly I dont just put that out there. It isnt a common knowlege thing among my Friends, except here, online. I only cross that bridge if I come to it I guess.

I know in my group of lesbian / gay friends although there is the stereotypical look of butch-femme dynamics in a few of the couples I know , But none as "obviously Defined as my own. In fact many use the word "butch" almost negatively.

as in " see that girl over there, God she's so Butch..eewwww.".....yeah well, as in yuck.


But most of those girls, I am 15yrs their senior...... , I dont know. " they call me old school"........
Maybe .. Im just old ..lol

but anyways.. thats probably enough to get a convo going I hope. thanks all!

Much Peace, Stoney

I'm in Orange

Very interesting thread...enjoying it very much...







:blueheels:

I had two count to ten before I responded to this, It made me so Fucking mad.
How dare you make such a statement.

Let me tell you this, from the horses mouth shall I ?

I am Butch . I am Masculine. I am GenderQueer.

I am not Transitioning, as yet...but maybe one day might get to that place.

I only get off on your ' up and down motion'....

...circular , would not do it for me one bit.....in fact , it would kill it because ya know what ? It would make me feel feminized.

I'll tell you why shall I ? Because when you are rubbing my clit, actualy you are wanking my cock, get it ?

My lovers DO !!

This does not make me a 'delicate butch with regards to my masulinity.' It makes me ME !

Who the hell are you to put out there what does and doesnt feminize a masculine person ? and then mock them ?

Damn , you made me mad.

Thank you so much for tour reply Blade, We have much in common.

bravo.................

Stoney asked, I answered...
 

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?

Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?


A situation doesn't change one's identity. Neither does one's partner. That person does. Or doesn't.

If you date someone of another religion, does that make you an automatic convert?

True story: I met and fell in like with a lovely Transguy. We got along rather well until it was made quite clear to me that, in order to be with him, I would have to be straight.

Um, no.

So, many discussions, fights, and tears later I left the relationship. Both of us were disappointed in the other and that's a sad state to be in simply because he needed a straight girl and I needed a queer guy. Two dissimilar objects trying to fit into the same square. A square that neither of us fit.

My identity is hard won. I have fought everyone...lovers, ex husbands, strangers and myself...for this identity. If anyone wants it, they are going to have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Stoney's questions: If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?

Cath: Not as far as I'm concerned, and I'll tell you why. For me personally and according to the other Stonefemmes who have shared with me, this identity is our own. It's not granted to us by the Stone Butch, nor is it contagious--they cannot somehow magically turn us into Stonefemmes.

This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks.

Stoney: Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?

Cath: I think nothing external, including a partner, can change an internal identity. I will say that it might appear that way to onlookers, if the Femme is exploring her own identity and experiments with the Stonefemme label to see if it fits her, but to me that is still an internal identity exploration. I can tell you that I changed very drastically over the course of a couple years, and while the things Stone Butches and Transmen were saying served as a catalyst for the changes, it was still my own internal process. Actually, other Femmes of all kinds were a bigger influence in my identity exploration.

Stoney: If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

Cath: I prefer to date Stone Butches and Transmen, but I'm not limited to them. I've fallen in love with many a Butch who was neither. Gryph is neither.

Stoney: I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before,

Cath: I admit that I was concerned! It hadn't gone so well in the past, falling in love with non-Stone Butches, and I wondered if I would be able to deal with it. What made me willing to try was that Gryph and I were completely compatible in the rest of our lives (well. Except for his infamous "butchelor pad" non-cleaning tendencies, that is), and I trusted him to be respectful of my boundaries as a Stonefemme. He is respectful of them, he does understand, and we've never had a problem.

Stoney: or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

Cath: I've had a hard time shaking off the guilt because I wasn't "performing" the way some of my past lovers expected me to, but miss it? No. It's not my thing. I don't know any Stonefemmes who say they miss it, either... most of my friends over the years have said they, like me, are relieved to be able to concentrate on having sex that feels natural to us in relationships that work for us with partners we adore. I've heard that so consistently that I think maybe they feel that relief at finding the right kind of relationship in the same huge way I do.

Thank you for the questions!

wow, nice post thank you Gemme, for an honest direct answer.

I enjoy your posts.

Stoney.

Bit!

thank you so much for all your answers. I honestly have been wondering about these things for years, what you said , I have heard my partner say," it takes the pressure off, it allows her to be comfortable, because we are so compatible in that way". I was hoping my questions came off genuine because they were. I never really understoond stone femme either, till recently , I am embarrassed to admit I was wrong for a long time on that,

It has helped me to see it and understand it , we are really so much alike arent we ?

Thank you so much Bit , Love all your posts too!


Peace Stoney

I love Bit's line about stone not being a contagious disease. Ha! I am who I am. My partners are who they are.

As for telling my friends that I'm a stonefemme, its kinda personal. Except, that is, for this website. Online communities are a funny thing. Only a very few of my close friends know this fundamental thing about me, but I wrote it loud and clear for anyone to see on my profile. Hmmm. One of the reasons I endured the incredibly irritating heteronormative posturing on the other site was that it was the only place I could interact with anyone who was like me. One of the reasons I stay active in this online community is because I find my ID so utterly isolating.

While most people have some idea what it means to be a stone butch, even my friends in the sex-positive kink community have NO IDEA what it means to be a stonefemme. When I tell them their eyes open wide in disbelief. I can't blame them. I had no idea what it meant until a few years ago. To be honest, if I were not a stonefemme I would very likely have trouble getting my head around the idea. There's still a part of me that says, "stonefemme? WTF?". I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy.

My late gf was nearly stone. She let me know in every way that we had the best sex she had in her life. That helped. A lot. My partner previous to her was not stone. She wanted me to reciprocate and neither of us knew why I just couldn't do what we both expected me to want to do in bed. She felt rejected, and I felt like a failure whenever it came up. Unfortunately she died suddenly in an accident in '03. Even though it's irrational, I still feel guilty that she died without getting what she wanted from me. We communicated a lot after she passed. I feel like she knows that I really did the best I could, and that I was only guilty of ignorance, but I soooo wish that she were alive to have that conversation with me.

I'm a BDSM masochist and a sexual bottom. Both my late partner and my late gf were big, bad- ass butch tops. That top/bottom dynamic can foster a stone sexual relationship even with couples who don't ID as stone. You know- aggressor/receiver, pitcher/catcher, dominant/submissive. That's how my late partner and I managed to have sizzling, screaming, mind-blowing sex even though we had unresolved issues around reciprocity. We both chalked it up to our sexual D/s dynamic.

It's all knotted up with guilt and mortality for me, but right now I'm just not secure enough in my stone ID to risk a romance with a butch who is not stone. I might be able to do it later in my life, but not now. I think those who can do it must have awesome communication skills. Maybe I'll get there one day.

cheryl, thank you so much,

great perspective, great post,

Im learning alot .

Peace Stoney

I wanted to piggyback on this idea.....

I am not sexually stone, except when I am.

When I am in Top kink space, I am about as sexually stone as you could possibly be. I am totally cock-identified and my clit is not a cock ever. I don't have a clit or breasts.

Outside of Top kink space, it is about the energy between the femme in my (her) bed and me. It's very fluid (from stone to all access) and very satisfying.

I also want to point out there are Femmes who are sexually stone.......meaning they don't want penetration or breasts played with or clit sucked. They get their pleasure from fucking/making love to the butch in their bed.

I also think everyone has sexual boundaries that must be respected. Sexual boundaries is not a phenomenon of Stone id.

Wow, Bit, what a sigh of relief when I read your post!! You are describing my experience to a T. Thank you for posting this. You have reaffirmed any hint of vestigial doubt I may still have had regarding this issue. I couldn't have said it any better - very well expressed.


[QUOTE=Bit;122860]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=teal]
*snip*
This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks.

I answered this question sometime back in another forum. It generated some miscommunication. I will try not to offend others . Here goes.

'Stone' for me is who I seek for a sexual partner ('stone' butches or TGs). It's not a gender for me, but it also defines what sexual acts I do and do not find sexual stimulating. I don't enjoy performing oral sex. I don't like feeling or manipulating my partner's chest/breast. Using 'stone', helps cut through, explaining what I expect or need sexually and that I respect my partner's needs, wants, and desires.

I do, however, loved to be licked, suckled, and penetrated (fingers, dildo and cock).

I am also a 'bottom femme' but that's another thread!

So am I under standing that a stone femme may be

both a top----not wishing touch similar to a stone butch

and also a bottom who is a receiver of touch, but is more comfortable in ''not '' reciprocating the same touch for whatever reason that makes up their preferential dynamic?

Is this right?


thanks for all the responses, this has been great. Very interesting .

Much peace all,

Stoney

Yes, for better or worse, that's correct. And pretty darned confusing. There are femme women who have the same sexual boundaries typical of a stone butch. They may or may not strap, but they are the 'pitcher'. Those women are stone femmes. I believe Bit once suggested that in order to differentiate we could use 'stone femme' for a femme sexual top who does not want to be penetrated, and 'stonefemme' for a femme sexual bottom who claims the ID we've been dissecting in the above thread.

Yeah, OK, I can do that. Unfortunately the terms are barely distinguishable in print and utterly indistinguishable when spoken. What is more, the word 'stone' simply does not fit the openness and receptivity embodied by a stonefemme. 'Stone' is a wonderful descriptor for any person who does not get penetrated. 'Stone' evokes impenetrability. Which is why it always made me uncomfortable as part of the term that describes me.

Another reason I don't like the term is that using it for both a stone femme sexual top as well as a stonefemme sexual bottom will eventually erase the identity of those who are in the minority, (stone femme sexual tops). If logic prevailed, which it probably won't, 'stone' would be solely the provenance of the impenetrable.

I haven't thought of anything nearly clever enough to replace this term. I wish someone else would. I would adopt it in a heartbeat as long as it doesn't imply 'fragile flower'.

I hear ya, Cheryl, I really hear ya... but so far, "stonefemme" is all we've got. I know it doesn't evoke softness, receptivity, or flexibility in the least, which is utterly ironic since those are terms that seem to apply to so many of us--and that seem to also describe what so many Stone Butches find attractive in us!

I would say "girl" because that fits such a huge number of stonefemmes, but then we would be leaving out all the stonefemmes who don't identify at all as girls--and it would confuse matters horribly with all the girls who are not stonefemmes!

I honestly don't know how to find a word that would fit us all without leaving anyone out and without causing more confusion than it solves.

You're right. 'Girl' has never been my ID, and I know far too many femmes who do ID as girls and who are not stonefemmes.

Where are all the clever coiners of terms?

Yep Stoney,

For me... you got it nailed! ;)

Stone Butch
 

Stone for me means I like to pleasure and I get pleasure from it. I only recently found a stone femme that I was compatible with. It made me realize that there was some hope and I didn't have to become a celibate priest after all.

i've struggled with my "stone femme" side for years, and still have personal issues with calling myself that. i, for whatever silly reasons, am much more comfortable calling myself a pillow princess....go figure. That term has never been a positive thing for me.... it seems to embody laziness....boy do i got issues. :huhlaugh:

Anyway, i have always been much more comfortable paired with people who are stone. my last gf was not, at all. i told her the first night we hooked up that i was a pillow princess, and after explaining what that meant, she stated she was fine with that. i tried to tell her she wouldn't be for very long, and of course she was adamant that it wouldn't be a problem. Needless to say, it eventually was. i should have known better, lesson soooo learned!

Without getting too personal, i have learned that i can be a bit more able to enjoy...giving...if it is within a Ds context. If i am told to do something, i will do it because i know it pleases them. But left to my own devices, it just isn't something i've ever been focused on. Like some others have mentioned, i too went through a stage of wondering if i was a "bad" lesbian because of my preferences.

i am gonna have to really devote some time to think about all this and process it in my head....

Thanks for the thread and all the great comments, y'all!
:byebye:

THANK TOU for this post.. I do not ID as stone, although I thought that maybe I was for a while. I do have sexual bounderies, however.. Sometimes I get very frustrated in bed, if I am not strapped. My cock is part of my sexual identity..

I have certain ways I want to be touched, there are also some things that I just don't like to do *to* a partner, because to *me*, it puts me into "lesbian" head space.. I still have memories of being a lesbian, I had a 4 year lesbian relationship.. It is a bad mindfuck for me, because then I feel femininized. I have had partners that don't get it, just as I've had partners that totally get it and enjoy the energy there.

It all comes down to mutual respecting of personal head space and bounderies for me. If a sexual partner asks me not to do something, I don't do it. It doesn't make them any less of a femme, butch, tranguy, cisguy, transwoman, or what ever they ID as.. The point is to connect with my partner and to have a good time.

There are somethings I really *need* to do with a partner I am in a relationship with.. One of those is strapping on one of my cocks and makeing love or fucking with it. If it's a hook up, it's diffrent for me.. The point there is to get off. In a relationship, the point is to share in the experience and maybe eventually, we get to get off too :)

I hope that my contribution helps add to the convo here.. As I said, I am not stone, but I *get* where being stone comes from and what it's about.

Thank you to all that have posted, I have been enjoying the read :)

-Tony

bump
 

Some really wonderful sharing of people's personal definitions of Stone.

Thank you to all who have participated (or will!).

Sister, I couldn't have said it better. Except that I didn't think of it as being 'lazy', but 'abnormal', or selfish. I lived with those feelings most of my gay life, until I found the gay/lesbian (for lack of a better word) sites. I joyously discovered that I was not selfish. I just enjoyed sex in a different way from others, and there was nothing 'abnormal' about that. In these online communities I found acceptance and understanding, and as you said, celebration in being stone.

After many years of being single, I have found love at last. My guy is just as stone as I am, and we rejoice and celebrate that aspect of our relationship - being stone. Cinderella has finally found the right 'fit'. :blueheels::stillheart:

shaped rock fragment: a piece of rock that has been shaped for a particular purpose
at first i thought stone was meant as hard core.. stone fox=very sexy, stone cold=little or no feelings,stone butch=very masculin,stone femme=very girly.
in time i realized i was stone not only verly masculine butch but had certian sexual needs that i was insistant about. the few times that i allowed myself to be "handled" "touched" on the female parts of my body i felt shame and embarassment, i just did not "id" with those parts of my body. those were parts that i had wished sence a very young age that i didnt have. it felt like she was focusing on an ugly birthmark picking on the very worst of me the part of me that i tried very hard to hide. a part i didnt want to bring into a relationship. but i was born this way so why do i not enjoy being touched?. thats not it at all i do enjoy being touched everywhere except "down there" and i do like my butch "strap" being touched as if i was born like this. not fantisy but real for me as should be for my partner also.
it comes down to for me: respect me for who i am even if it is only in our eyes. i will do the same for you. who are you and who am i?
do we have the mutual respect that will complement each others needs?

I don't profess to speak with any kind of authority on this topic, but what I have gleaned is that "stone" is a continuum, almost like gender or sexual preference itself. I see all the way from no reciprocal touch at all, to touch allowed in certain places, to being a top (or bottom), but not necessarily stone. I fall in the latter group-not opposed to being touched at all, believe me, but I get 90% of my pleasure from touching, not being touched.

Having said that, it seems to change with whomever I'm with, where my mind is going, and even the time of the month. Different energies, I guess. I might want activity A on Monday, and activity B (totally opposite mind place) on Saturday. Sexuality is a slippery beast.

Maybe, to me, the important thing isn't defining once and for all what "stone" is, since there are as many different definitions as women on this site. It's absolutely not about "well, I'm doing it "right", and you are all "wrong". It's about finding partners who are compatible with our wishes, and theirs, and then communicating and respecting the hell out of each other.

For me, it's not even remotely about top or bottom, D/s, giving vs receiving... I am an active, passionate, giving sexual partner who could never in a million years be called submissive.

I'm not a lesbian. I'm not interested in interacting with female parts. Or being with a partner who wants or needs that. So... any motivation for giving in that way is non-existent for me. Does this make me a lazy lover or a pillow princess? If I'm in bed with a woman it would.

But give me a guy who truly owns his strap-on and knows how to use it and watch out!

Also, when and if I DO touch him there, I'm stroking cock, not clit. And there's no doubt in either of our minds.

Speaking for myself, and FOR ME only, I am a lesbian. I'm a stonefemme lesbian. Like Nightshade I can't/don't interact with female parts, but I interact enthusiastically with butch women when given half a chance.

I'm a woman who partners with and has erotic energy with females who are butch. That fits perfectly within my definition of lesbian.

Remember, only do what is comfortable for you. There is nothing wrong with being Stone in any relationship, if that is who you are. Being true to yourself will result in you finding the right partner match.

Thank you very much
 

I am a stone butch and lesbian and my butch cock is a female body part.

Thank you. I learn so damned much here! I've never heard it described that way before.

And as always, my absolute statements are proven incomplete and language in general is proven sorely inadequate.

People are stunningly complex and I for one am very grateful.

My first female long term partner was stone. I've seen many stone butches, casually and seriously.

I've never ID'd as a stonefemme (though I have had long periods of being stone - boundried about where people can touch me - myself). I've never felt there was something missing unless there *was* something missing in our relationship, not sex. If it was with the right person, if my wife suddenly decided she was stone, then I would not have much of problem with it. I'm pretty damn flexible. I enjoy giving anal sex, a lot, but I know some people can't. I don't feel like a part of me has been lopped off if I can't. Just the way some things go. And I'm well versed, so I'm not fussed.

My ID does not depend on my partner. full stop.

I know isn't addressed to me, but, too bad!

I know there are plenty of places in the states and in canada it's acceptable to state your ID as stone butch. in the generder queer scene in london.... em... no. Butch is fine when mentioned in passing, no one gives a fuck, so woulod find it slightly odd for someone to do it adamantly/proudly. Sort of like shouting "I'm here, I'm queer" in a club where everyone has been out for 900 billion years and has the right to get married. State one is stone? not. that's sort of like telling your dinner guests how you like to masturbate. No one really wants to know your preferences in the sack. or how many toilet squares it takes to wipe your ass, while having a beer with you. It's kinda considered TMI. it's kinda a conversation you have with someone you intend to have sex with and close friends if you talk about sex with your close friends, not your casual mates.

the community clubs I hang in understands butch-femme, butch-butch, femme-femme, trans-butch, trans-femme, trans-wotever, bi, and all variations of generqueer. No one blabs about it too much, it's kind of a given. Though the term pillow princess/prince gets bandied about a bit, but not in a nasty way. and many people are more than happy to put their hand up and own that term.

I actually came to these sites to FIND my ID because I believed there was one. I found there was none and yet I am stone. I am stone not for the reasons that some may think...for me it has everything to do with what OTHERS think of my sexuality and not at all based on what my sexuality is in reality. I am NOT like you. I am me. He is He. Together we are. Who understands what I have come to understand doesn't mean a damn thing. I get it.

Stone is one way to quickly describe for me a dynamic that can also be described for me as D/g. Do we fuck that way? Sometimes. Do we love that way? Always. Will most people ever understand it? NO. Do I care? Not anymore.