Like the teachers at that school had anything to do with 911.

Very sad.

Shows zero division of church and state.

Should get at least a week off for Festivus!

Make it a month that we get too and I'm in!

I never heard of Easter Monday. Here we take off from Weds to Sunday, but never Monday. Most people take the entire week as most of their children are out of school during that time. Learn something new every day, Easter Monday :) We also call Friday, Holy Friday, not Good Friday, I never understood why it was called Good Friday in the US.

The original concept of Thanksgiving was purely religious (Puritans). Of course like many other things, the original concept has developed into something else. To me, it is a day to spend with Family.

I forget who asked--HSIN, maybe?--but yes, Thanksgiving in the US is very often a four-day weekend. Many schools give kids the Friday off.

Work-wise, though, it's different if you're in service or retail. It's called Black Friday and it's the make-or-break day for so many retail businesses that a tradition of huge sales that start insanely early has sprung up.

In effect, we go from a day of giving thanks for all we have to a day of insane and utter greed, as if what we have means nothing at all. There are people who refuse to participate in this, but not many. Even some people who complain about the commercialization of Christmas participate in the Black Friday sales to get Christmas gifts cheaper.

What this has to do with Thanksgiving? Not much, except that I guess retailers are pretty thankful when their books get out of the red and into the black (that's how it got the name Black Friday).

Hey now! If we wanna have a holiday, I am ALL about Black Friday! I support local business, I increase state revenue coffers in sales tax dollars AND I get new shoes!! Now if that aint a holiday, I dont know what is :dance2::blueheels:

Black Friday and all those crazed people? I would rather go barefoot!

OK, yes I like to go barefoot and like to look at shoes and not wear them, but seriously, it is a nightmare to me. People, noise, sudden movements....eeeekkkkkkk.

No, it isn't religious and what you say here is quite true. It is actually an affront to Native Americans. It has no religious sanctioning at all, however, it was the design of founders in the US seeking religious freedom and drenched in their religious underpinnings which were Christian.

We in the US have been sold the myth of Thanksgiving lock, stock and barrel! If it had any intention of gratitude to natives, the traditional Thanksgiving meal would be fish and corn!

I can get behind being thankful for many things in my life, but I can't celebrate this holiday as it is portrayed in the US. It is a good day of the year to talk to family about what it represents to the Native people here with some honesty. An opportunity to own history as it really happened. The least we can do, I believe. But, these are my personal feelings. And, yes, I do enjoy this day with family and friends, and hopefully in a more truthful manner.

I have similar feelings about Columbus Day. That is not a kind or honest holiday for Native Americans.

I voted for Keeping Schools neutral from Religious Holidays ..
My main Reason being that if the Public Schools allow religious Holiday observance..
The Religious parents {of any religion} will soon want Prayer involved at some point for their children..
They would be able to say "Well, why not? U allow the Holidays"..
If Christians are then granted their morning Prayer {with a rather Lame 'those that don't follow christian prayers can stay seated or work on some other project' excuse}
Which would then trigger Muslims wanting to have their kids observe their Prayers {which are 5 every day, and sometimes More if they're Orthodox, and Ramadan adds even more, never mind the Fasting part}
Followed by Jewish{high holidays + Sabbath}, Hindi, Random Pagans{Solstice, Sabbats, esbats}, Animists, Shinto, Buddhists, etc etc...

I think, if they really want the children to Observe Religious holidays in a school environment, like other Posts here..
Put them within a specific Religious Academy, can't afford it ? Homeschool them, you don't qualify? I'm sure there's a way to work it out...

I do like the thought of "General" Holiday breaks..
I don't agree with "burn-out" though..
There's plenty Boarding schools on a year-round basis with general "Breaks" to visit Family..
Some are Religious, Military, Secular etc..

People can even abuse the privilege of removing their child for whatever Religious reason, and the School that allows one, would have to allow the other...

The Amish and Old Order Mennonite have their own 'schools' and Legally, once the children reach 8th Grade, that's it, time to be Useful in their district.
So far it's worked, but that's because they stay amongst themselves willingly, and teach their Traditions in addition to sufficient Secular material to get the kids by in a constantly changing world.

While grown-ups are "Debating" prayer or not...Evolution v.s. Creationism, the kids are the ones getting the crappy end of the stick, they'll be leaving elementary more confused than some Adults.

btw, I don't celebrate "Thanksgiving" per se, I'm not fond of constantly remembering the Slaughter and stealing of Native lands...
I'd sooner celebrate when Columbus "discovered" Puerto Rico with the help of Spain...riiiight



:candle::praying:

The Easter Monday thing really makes me wonder whether or not this is a new thing. I sincerely can't remember having Easter Monday off back in highschool, middle school or elementary school (I graduated from highschool about 6 years ago with the whole double cohort fiasco, so hopefully my memory is not that bad, haha). I live in Toronto (went to school in the east-end), so not sure if that makes a difference. I was actually talking to my mother about this the other day oddly enough, and she mentioned she couldn't remember having school off on Easter Monday either (she grew up in Eastern Ontario).

I should have clarified, but I meant officially in schools. Teachers and professors I've had never refered to it as the Christmas holidays back in high school or in university, but as "the holidays" or "winter holidays," both while living in Toronto as well as out on the East Coast. It could differ region to region, though, like you suggest. With students I notice it can go either way, Christmas holidays or winter holidays/vacation, though even then I see it used less and less.

About the American Thanksgiving thing...it could be I'm just totally ignorant about American Thanksgiving. From what I've read, what American friends have told me (those friends are mainly from Indiana and Minnesota if that tells anyone anything) and just general media I was always under the impression that the Pilgrim origins of American Thanksgiving (which Canada does not share) is still an integral part of the way children celebrate the holiday in public schools in the US, and generally in the background of the American celebration. I could be entirely wrong, so feel free to correct me if I am since I've never actually lived in the US myself.

That's odd; I always remember Easter Monday off and I just checked both our local school boards' calendars and, yep, they still have it off.

I just checked the Public Board website (although both are publicly funded, we have one RC and one Public), and the Winter Break is still listed as Christmas Break (!). I had no idea.

That is so weird. Especially the Easter Monday thing. I for the life of me can't remember ever having a four day weekend over Easter, and thought it was just something they started doing a few years ago or something. I'm going to do some digging around, or else this is going to drive me absolutely insane. Maybe I can find some old calendars from univerisity lying around, too, to vouch for my sanity on the Easter Monday thing.

I'm getting hits on both Christmas Break and Winter Break on different TDSB links, oddly enough. For example here: schools.tdsb.on.ca/jarvisci/misc/calendar_SeptDec08.rtf they call it Winter Break, while others call it Christmas Break. I'm having a sneaking suspicion that this may differ from school to school.

On a side note I saw some calendars refering to what we used to call March Break as "Mid-Winter Break," is that a recent change? Sounds so odd.

It was specifically religious in origin. The first actual official Thanksgiving of the United States of America was declared by the Continental Congress in 1777 as a response to winning the Revolutionary War, and the proclamation begins, "FOR AS MUCH as it is the indispensable Duty of all Men to adore the superintending Providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with Gratitude their Obligation to him for Benefits received..." It goes on in that manner for a couple paragraphs as it sets out the recommendation that all the people in the country should "consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor..." There's no mention of feasting, only of prayer.

What we are supposed to be celebrating with Thanksgiving (winning a war) has gotten muddled up with the Pilgrims' harvest feasts--for the Pilgrims, "Thanksgiving" celebrations didn't involve meals, but prayer and fasting; it was the harvest feast that involved a big meal--and has morphed over the past couple hundred years into a children's mythology taught in schools, the media, and churches. The actual sentiments behind George Washington's and the Continental Congress' Thanksgiving proclamations--prayerful gratitude for this country's independence--are now celebrated on the Fourth of July, but the religious trappings have fallen away from that day.

Here is a quote from the proclamation Lincoln made in 1863; we have as a nation celebrated Thanksgiving every year since. "They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens."

Again no mention of feasting, only of prayer.

I personally believe there is no way to say that Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday, given the government proclamations that established it.

For anyone who is interested, a very basic intro to the history of Thanksgiving in the US is here, in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)

It's become part of the myth over the past couple hundred years that the Pilgrims celebrated Thanksgiving the way it's celebrated today--minus the football, of course! but with lacrosse and weaponry exhibitions--and yes, schoolchildren are inculcated with the "Pilgrims and Indians" story. It is true that in 1621 there was a harvest festival which was shared between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Native Americans, and that "fowl" (possibly wild turkey) was featured on the menu. It is also true that in 1622 there was a slaughter of Native Americans before the next harvest festival. It was a terrible repayment of the gift of land, food, and help which had been so freely given.

Popular culture in the US downplays this travesty and repeats the sweetly sentimental "Pilgrims and Indians Thanksgiving" myth incessantly, much to the dismay of anyone who cares about Native American peoples.

I found an amazingly beautiful reclamation of Thanksgiving by a Native American. http://www.alternet.org/story/4391/

For me, the holiday is about the gifts of Native foods--turkey, corn, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, green beans, wild rice, pumpkins, pecans, sugar cane, etc; I celebrate the bounty of this continent and the awesome gift of Native American agriculture to the world. My Thanksgiving is to those who walked these lands before me, those who guided the crops into the foods I love, those whose spirits still sing beneath my feet. My gratitude is to them.

Black friday...NOOOOOOO not me,id rather walk thrue hot coals barefoot than be caught in any retail store on that day...talk about crazies out there in masses..yikes!!

Isn't it one of those travel day additions? As a kid, we did not have that Monday off. But, I am kinda old and I remember it being added to the Easter Break (wasn't called Spring Break) when my son was elementary school (still called Easter Break or vacation), which was during the 70's. This was in Northern Califonia. Have no idea if this is true for other folks.

Kids are still getting the Indians and Pilgrims feasting together version of Thanksgiving taught in school....at least in our schools. It's one of those shams that gets taught as history often, and drvies me nuts.

I'm not comfortable with either the Indian/Pilgrim feast or the religious version of the holiday...so in our house we decided to look at the name Thanksgiving, and do just that. We invite friends, we have a beautiful meal, and we go around the table and talk a bit about what each of us are grateful for that year.

For us, it's a day to spend reflecting on the things and people we are grateful for...pure and simple. That just works much better for me. :rrose:

I think in our area the "Easter Monday" got added to allow a set 4 day weekend, as it used to be a full Mon- Fri ( plus weekend) off for Easter or Spring break. Missed days during the year due to snow changed it so as not to have to add more days on to the end of the year. I recall some years where we had no spring break at all, as we had missed so many snow days. I think it just became an easier solution than not having any break. I think parents agreed to it as they rather enjoyed the 4 day weekends that came with Labor Day and Memorial Day(s).

What still surprises me , in addition to the fact we still even have religious holidays, is that in a great deal of the rural South, we still have approved days off for kids during the first week of hunting season ( specifically deer) and for harvest time ( in re: tobacco). This always tended to be mostly a "boy" holiday ( hunting) as in some schools, half the male population was gone during that week. ( Just an observation...LOL )

I think seasonal breaks are good for students/ teachers and parents not unlike vacation time annually. It still boggles me that the USA places such little value on "vacation" and family time. Most other countries require several weeks of vacation per year and wouldn't you know, they seem to have less social issues than us.

Breaks.. yes.. Religious holidays, I think should be respected and if students have specific holy days in which they cannot attend school, then it should be permitted but not mandated for students who do not share the same religious practices.

Easter.. I prefer eggs and bunnies to crucifixes.. jus sayin..

I must admit I do enjoy the chocolate and candy crosses...they crack me UP! and I like to roast peeps for smores. Muahahahaha.

Yes, hunting season. At the last place I worked I had several employees give me a copy of the hunting schedule to let me work around it for their work. It is totally accepted...first day of Deer season with submachine gun? Day off. Kids take off from school too. They have a youth hunting days here on TN too. Just great.

I agree that more emphasis in our country should be placed on leisure time. With sports and clubs and homework and all the things kids are expected to get done, they need time to rest and recharge!

I voted add more...not because I think we should be observing religious holidays in public institutions, but purely as a pragmatic thing.

I simply can't see our culture eliminating those days off from school over Christmas and Easter. We can call it whatever we like, but I don't see it changing anytime soon. We still take summer off in the public schools...even though virtually none of our children are needed for agricultural help. Kids do need breaks...and those times are traditional.

Since I think it's unlikely that we'll have kids going to school over Christmas and Easter any time soon, then I think it's better that we add in the major holidays of other faiths and recognize them all instead of marginalizing.

I guess what I'm striving for is equality. If they aren't going to all be out, then let's have them all be in. For many, those days off aren't going to be religious holidays, but maybe we can use that as a learning experience as my son's school does...and hopefully that will eventually increase our understanding of each other.

And, just a disclaimer, we don't adhere to any particular faith in our family...so they're all just days off to us. I am not concerned with my son being out of school for any religious holiday of any faith. :rrose:

I hear you on this but how do you decide what to give off? For example at my child's school in September this year there are 8 days off. These are the Orthodox observances of the Jewish High Holidays. Sometimes there are even more, up to 11 one year! These days rotate through September and October every year. How can a school plan for that? And that is just the Jewish holidays! Also in order to properly keep Jewish dietary laws things need to be kosher. Do we want public schools to be kosher? No of course not!

My child goes to a religious school because that is my choice. I do not expect that my religion would be accomodated in school. Christian holidays are not only institutionalized in schools, they are institutionalized at work and in the financial markets. That is just how it is. I don't mind that. I like to have the same days off as my child.

I'd like holidays to not be called religious ones in public school and for no other religious holidays to be added.

Very interesting topic.

We have a long history in public schools of separation of church and state. We have a conflicting arrangement of freedom to practice religion. How do we honor both?

Atlast mentioned more religious education/awareness. As a teacher, I am very uncomfortable with this idea, outside of a cultural context. It can easily blur the line between creating well-informed students, and teachers taking the opportunity to promote one religion over another. It would require a background in religions that teachers simply don't have. The expectation that teachers delve into something as personal as religion is a bit much.

For me, it boils down to what does our society expect from public schools. Ideally, education, right? If our purpose is to education, we should create an atmosphere where race, class and religion are neutralized so the focus is on education. However, each of those components affects not only the student and how the student learns, but the teacher and how the teacher teaches. It becomes a question of honoring each child as an individual where they can learn in a safe environment. Then the focus becomes not on what we do, but how we do it. If we can create an accepting classroom for children where they feel valued for who they are, and if we promote this atmosphere school-wide, then we have made more in-roads for that child than any school holiday (religious or otherwise) will ever be able to do.

All religious holidays should be taken out. And replaced with "half-term" breaks. If someone is a specific religion they can talk to the school about taking their child out of class for a few days to attend their holy days.

I voted "I don't care" and I really don't care about holidays although I celebrate the ones where gifts or chocolate is involved.

My experience with public schools has been that they have certain times off a year - they don't refer to them currently by the Christian name, everything is a "holiday" but not defined. Kids who celebrate other religions are allowed to take off from school without a penalty.

Even if I wanted to pull my kids out of school for a random vacation for a week during the school year I can and they'll still pass.

One thing I think that I would like to see happen is a year round school year. I know as a home owner I pay school taxes, and that they would go up. I would rather pay more for my kids to go to school year round then I would to have to send them to camp for the summer. I was lucky that when my oldest was young enough for camp (and I was a poor single mother going to college & working as a waitress) that I found one sponsored by the little town that we lived in that cost $15 a week!!!!!! I was so lucky. I didn't have the money to send her to camp otherwise. That camp of course no longer exists.

This year, my youngest daughters camp cost me over $1200 for five weeks. (She does the fair thing with 4-H during the other weeks) so my expense was actually lower then what lots of other people have to shell out. I only had to pay for her, what on earth do people do that have more then one kid? Or that can't afford between $160 - $250 a week?? Normally that is paid up front. Even $300 is more then some people can afford to spend to replace a car, much less send their kids to camp. I'm lucky today to be able to afford it. I honestly have no idea what some other families do.

Yet, they have to go to work. The kids have to go somewhere. Preferably a safe somewhere and not home alone. There are daycare subsidies here for people who work that can't afford daycare expenses, but nothing like that for camp. The daycare's are generally full. Year round schooling wouldn't hurt kids at all and would help out parents, especially the working poor.

Just because that is one model doesn't mean that is how it has to be done right? But even that model has benefits over the current system.

Sure it is the parents responsibility. Too bad all parents aren't all so equally responsible. There are plenty of single parents who are stuck, not by choice, trying to raise families on a very limited income. There are even two parent families that face hardships every day in this country and are worried about keeping the lights on. Not because they are irresponsible, but because they can't find work or they can and it's min wage.

I would personally, as a parent prefer to figure out shorter periods of time then such a large chunk. As someone who spent most of their life as a member of the working poor, I think that year round schooling - which other countries have done with some success - is a viable option to help parents that don't have the resources and it benefits the child educationally too.

Here is another article on it: http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/459031

I suspect that kids learn more without such large breaks or forget less depending on how you look at it. The structure remains intact without significant adjustments/disruptions for kids. Shorter periods of time where camp would be needed or alternative childcare arrangements saves money. Kids aren't going to learn less this way....and our kids need to be learning more, especially math and science.

I voted "I Don't Care" because none of the other options were close to what I think.

I think each school district should set their calendar based on the members of the community they are providing for. They have the data, and I don't think it would be that difficult to build the schedule around the needs of that particular community. If you know that 75% of your students are muslim, it would make sense to schedule that day off since all of those students would be missing the lessons taught on that day.

It was never an issue in my hometown because there was very little diversity. In my senior class in high school (class of '83) there were two jewish students out of 180 students. I know this because we were in the same home room and they would talk about when they would be out for high holidays, etc. I know that the school didn't count the days they took off for high holidays as absences. It wouldn't have been practical to have school on Christmas when about 99% of the student body would be home celebrating.

It's late and I'm way over tired so I shouldn't even be posting. I don't have any kids, but I do work with children, so school schedules do affect my work schedule.

Too bad we can't just get rid of all this pesky religion silliness, that would solve the issue.

Let's keep something that looks kinda like Christmas, though. I really love the tree and the pretty ornaments and lights on houses and the excuse to bake lots of cookies, and all the prezzies :) and the Grinch and stuff. Plus, "Peace on earth and good will" is pretty a good message.

Bratboy was in a school system several years ago that had a "year-round" schedule. For us, in great part due to his autism, it was a huge pain in the ass.

Routine and structure were so very important at that time, it seemed that just as he got settled in, BAM! Time for a two-week break. It would literally take the majority of the next grading period to get him settled back in then BAM! again.

It.wore.us.all.out.

It also increased my child care costs. I was already paying for before/after care and then I had a couple weeks every 6 weeks or so of fulltime care to pay. The summer break, while less in length, still necessitated camp or something. I didn't see it as a positive at all.

I realize this is just one not so great experience with a "year round" schedule and that other folks may not share the same views.

I have difficulty with adding to teachers' burdens. I think they are already overworked, underpaid and appreciated. I think the year round schedule just adds unnecessary issues because I think most children have difficulty in the re-adjustment after school breaks.

I have to disagree. In a private school, polling a family's religious beliefs and catering to the majority is plausible. In the public school district I teach in, we do not know the religion of our students(unless the student or parent tells us.)

Furthermore, it is public education, not majority education. It is an easy answer to say, majority rules, but does that teach diversity or acceptance? A break schedule that removes ANY religious acknowledgement separates public schools from favoring one religion over another. Public schools should give students days off without penalty for religious observances.