What about those in Australia?
They are so close to the Island of Japan - Much closer than the United States.

Thanks and I did (should have thought of that).
It is the same molecular component.
Take LOTS of Steroids (prednisone) with Iodide - That I knew, as I have had multiple nuclear testing done.

So, NO - there is no replacement. Those of us who are allergic to Iodine are allergic to the Iodide - DON'T TAKE IF YOU ARE.

Right now, there is no alternative. I am going to call a friend who knows a Chinese herbalist to find out.

Another thing that can be done though it does nothing about inhaled radiation are lead lined throat shields.

Thank you! My NBC training is 25 years out of date (when did I get so OLD?) so I appreciate this.

One thing I want to add. The Iodine isotope to be concerned about can *only* get to your thyroid through ingestion of food stuffs that are contaminated--in specific this means do NOT drink the milk of cows exposed to the radiation. So IF we have a truly worst-case scenario--and it is unclear, at the time of this writing, whether we will--one would probably want to stock up on milk products but I would *not* suggest a run on your local Fred Meyers or Safeway at this point.

A whole cascade of things would still have to go wrong before we started to see levels of radiation, wafting across the Pacific, that would give us concern. At present, that cascade has not happened--which is not to say it won't.

Medusa, I'm still trying to find some numbers that I can crunch to answer your question about whether we can predict how hot this plant is going to get. Even IF one of the cores melts down, that still doesn't mean that the absolute worst is going to happen because the floor of the containment vessel is designed to--hopefully--contain the radioactive slag.

Cheers
Aj

Actually, for the most part the radiation would be about the same. In oversimplifying things yesterday, I made one minor error which I'll now correct.

EARLY nuclear weapons were fission weapons--which split atoms into two (relatively easy) while later (H-bomb) weapons use fission which takes two smaller atoms and fuses them into one (a hydrogen bomb can be thought of as creating a very small, low-mass star in an instant). The actual radioactivity release is because a fast-fission reaction is used to compress a critical mass into a very small space, causing fusion to occur. But the bulk of the radiation is coming from the fission explosion, not the fusion explosion. (Fission is a 'dirty' process, fusion is a 'clean' process)

So for our purposes here, we can treat the radiation coming from a power plant to be the same kind of radiation coming from a bomb because the source is pretty much the same. I made this point yesterday and was correct but for the wrong reasons. :(

For the most part, unless there is a catastrophic release (and by this I mean the molten core eats through the containment vessel floor, goes into the ground and hits the water table at which point there would be an explosive release of steam which would blow a lot of dirt into the air), we will not see a lot of very hot material. The steam being released is not going to make it the distance across the Pacific to the West coast of the US without being severely diluted.

Also keep in mind that there is no radiation being released that you are not already exposed to in the course of a year. You aren't exposed to the isotopes--and this is why we should hope that there is no explosive release of steam caused by the slag hitting the water table--without a particulate material to adhere to because the isotopes are rather heavy and wouldn't travel very far from the site on their own. Everyone freaks out with the word radiation--and it's a scary word but this is important to keep in mind--

Cheers
Aj

IAEA update
 

So, I've subscribed to a couple of IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) news feeds for the duration of this event. I will post them here so there is a clearinghouse of the most recent information so as it becomes available, I'll try to stay on top of it and make sure that it gets here.

Japan Earthquake Update (15 March 2011, 14:10 UTC)

The IAEA Incident and Emergency Centre (IEC) continues to monitor the status of the nuclear power plants in Japan that were affected by the devastating earthquake and consequent tsunami.

All units at the Fukushima Daini, Onagawa, and Tokai nuclear power plants are in a safe and stable condition (i.e. cold shutdown).

The IAEA remains concerned over the status of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, where sea water injections to cool the reactors in Units 1, 2 and 3 are continuing. Attempts to return power to the entire Daiichi site are also continuing.

After explosions at both Units 1 and 3, the primary containment vessels of both Units are reported to be intact. However, the explosion that occurred at 04:25 UTC on 14 March at the Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2 may have affected the integrity of its primary containment vessel. All three explosions were due to an accumulation of hydrogen gas.

A fire at Unit 4 occurred on 14 March 23:54 UTC and lasted two hours. The IAEA is seeking clarification on the nature and consequences of the fire.

The IAEA continues to seek details about the status of all workers, reactors and spent fuel at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

An evacuation of the population from the 20-kilometre zone around Fukushima Daiichi is in effect. The Japanese have advised that people within a 30-km radius shall take shelter indoors. Iodine tablets have been distributed to evacuation centres but no decision has yet been taken on their administration.

A 30-kilometre no-fly zone has been established around the Daiichi plant. Normal civil aviation beyond this zone remains uninterrupted. The Japan Coast Guard established evacuation warnings within 10 kilometres of Fukushima Daiichi and 3 kilometres of Fukushima Daini.

The IAEA and several other UN organizations held a meeting at 11:00 UTC today to discuss recent developments and coordinate activities related to consequences of the earthquake and tsunami. The meeting was called under the framework of the Joint Radiation Emergency Management Plan of the International Organizations, and this group expects to work closely together in the days ahead.

You know, AJ, I was thinking about what you said about the people who are working at these plants while others evacuate. They really are heroes.

I read an article on Sunday that talked about how the "control room" for the first reactor had reached 200 degrees. I wasn't clear on what they mean by 'control room', if it is a room with lots of computers and people punching buttons (although I can't imagine a computer being functional at that heat) or if it's a different type of control room that is more mechanical.

Either way, it made me wonder about what conditions these people must be working in and how exhausted they must be. Definitely thinking of these folks today as they work diligently and possibly expose themselves to intense radiation in order to try to help all of us.

I checked Health Canada but they didn't have any statement. And neither does BC Health:

http://www.gov.bc.ca/health/

:|:|:|



http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...japan.nuclear/

I have a question: would the potassium iodide be helpful for dogs and cats?

I found this:

http://www.mbah.state.ms.us/emergenc...ms/ki_vets.htm


Also called my vet and she said that as long as the pups don't have an iodine allergy or sensitivity, they should be fine dosed as a child (and added that she was going to need to research this further because she doesn't have anything "official" on this but that she had received a couple of calls about it since Sunday).


edited to add: child dosages would be based on the animal's weight and she is guestimating that 20mg would be plenty for a cat and that it would go up from there but she wants to confer with another vet before telling me anything "on the record".

Anyone have a vet they can ask too? Im curious what the consensus is?

Japan Earthquake Update (15 March 2011, 20:35 UTC)
The Japanese government today requested assistance from the IAEA in the areas of environmental monitoring and the effects of radiation on human health, asking for IAEA teams of experts to be sent to Japan to assist local experts. Preparations for these missions are currently under way.

The missions will draw on IAEA resources and may also possibly involve Response and Assistance Network (RANET) and Member States' capabilities.

This development follows the IAEA's offer to Japan of its "Good Offices" - i.e. making available the Agency's direct support and coordination of international assistance.

RANET is a network of resources made available by IAEA Member States that can be offered in the event of a radiation incident or emergency. Coordination of RANET is done by the IAEA within the framework of the Convention on Assistance in the Case of a Nuclear Accident or Radiological Emergency.

The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html

Andrew:

I will do my best to explain to the limit of my own understanding.

IF the worst of all possible scenarios were to happen and one or more reactors experienced a catastrophic meltdown of the entire pile and IF it then melted through the primary containment vessel AND the outer containment vessel and IF it then melted into the earth and had enough energy to keep melting material until it reached the water table THEN there could be an explosive release of steam and what would then be highly radioactive dirt into the environment. But notice that there are a lot of conditionals before it gets there. A lot of things would have to go wrong for things to get that bad.

However, that is vanishingly unlikely while still having a probability that is larger than 0 (where 0 means that there's no chance of it happening and 1 means that it is certain to happen).

As I understand it, right now NONE of the reactors are undergoing active fission. This is good. That means that all they have to do is keep pumping water into the cores, keeping them submerged, until such time as the decay heat reaches a manageable level. Think about the inside of the core like you would either fireworks (the kind you buy from the Boy Scouts) or a hot pan. When I was a kid and we would do fireworks on the 4th of July, my job was to fill up a bucket or washtub with water. My dad would light the fireworks, they'd burn, we'd dunk them in water and the next day pour the water out and then dispose of the fireworks. So the reactor is the firework, the sea water represents the bucket of water. Even after the fuel rods are pulled from the core (meaning they are no longer undergoing fission) there is residual heat--this is called the decay heat. That's why the cores have to be covered by water until the rods and the core cool down.

The fires (and as I was writing this another fire broke out) are actually happening in a storage area for spent fuel rods. The problem is that the area around this pool is now too hot (radioactively, not thermally) for workers to approach to put water in to fill the pools to keep the spent fuel rods (which are in cases) from becoming uncovered. This is where I wish we had more sophisticated robotics.


Cheers
Aj

i read they were considering using heliocopters to drop water into the pool.

I'd read that but now I'm hearing they are rethinking that.

Cheers
Aj

Yes, I have to say that I was quite intrigued with the robotic capabilities used to deal with the Gulf deep water oil spill. Amazing, but a very different set of variable.

From NPR:

Fukushima, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl: Putting It All In Perspective
by NPR Staff

The situation at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi facility is prompting many comparisons to the two prior crises that have become cultural touchstones for what can go wrong at a nuclear power plant: Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

See how the disasters compare.

Three Mile Island
Date: March 28, 1979
Place: Near Harrisburg, Pa.

Problem -A failure involving the water pumps allowed pressure to build up inside the reactor core; in response, a relief valve automatically opened. But it failed to close again — and cooling water escaped the reactor. Meanwhile, operators at the plant didn't get the signal that the valve was still open.

What Happened To The Core -The nuclear fuel rods inside the reactor experienced a partial meltdown — meaning some of them overheated and melted. However, the radioactive material never escaped the containment vessel.

Exposure-Experts say the resulting radiation exposure was never enough to cause a detectable health effect in the general population.


Chernobyl
Date: April 26, 1986
Place: About 80 miles north of Kiev, Ukraine

Problem - Operators were performing a test to see how the reactor would fare in case of electrical failure, when a design flaw in the reactor caused a dramatic power surge.

What Happened To The Core - The core hadn’t been shut down prior to the test. The power surge triggered events that sent the nuclear reaction out of control — causing two explosions. The reactor was not surrounded by a containment structure, so the explosions and the subsequent fire sent a giant plume of radioactive material into the atmosphere and was spread out by the winds.

Exposure -At least 5 percent of the radioactive reactor core was released into the atmosphere. Two Chernobyl plant workers died on the night of the accident, and 28 more people died within a few weeks from radiation poisoning. Long term, several thousand more people were put at risk for cancer.


Fukushima Daiichi
Date: March 11
Place: Fukushima prefecture, about 150 miles north of Tokyo on Japan's northeastern coast

Problem - Emergency cooling systems at the plant started to fail after a massive quake and tsunami knocked out electricity at the facility. Workers have experienced numerous problems maintaining water levels in the three reactors that were in operation when the quake struck. Water is needed to keep the nuclear fuel rods inside the core from overheating. Officials suspect rods have melted in multiple reactors.

What Happened To The Core - So far, four of the six nuclear reactors are in trouble. In Unit Nos. 1 and 3, explosions occurred from a buildup of hydrogen gas. These were not nuclear blasts. Experts suspect the nuclear rods inside these two reactors have started to melt but have not breached the containment vessel, which is designed to keep radioactive material from escaping.

Unit No. 2 poses a bigger threat: An explosion may have caused a breach in the containment vessel, which may allow radioactive steam or water to escape

Unit No. 4, which had been closed down for maintenance before the quake hit, caught on fire. The fire occurred near a pond where spent fuel rods were left to cool off. Officials believe the fire caused a radiation leak near the pool. The challenge is keeping the rods — which are still hot — covered in water so that they don’t overheat and release more radioactive material.

Exposure - Not yet known.

Source: USNRC, World Nuclear Association

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134568...in-perspective

There's just been a report that the last 50 workers have been released :|

Which means that nobody is manning the reactors. :|

Which means they've given up :|

I hope like hell that is just a bad translation. They are clarifying now.

Oh shit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...joa_story.html

I know very little about reactors,ive read some post but im a simple minded person who just deals with life as it comes.I just hope that when all this is over ...whenever its over,we all learn a lesson on how to protect ourselves and the world we live on from these things when they happen.My heart goes out to all off the people of Japan as well as many others who will be effected by these circumstances.Who ever our highr power may be,may he or she look upon us with benevolent eyes.

I bet she'll be in shortly. :)


From what I understand, the radiation has become too high for the workers to continue (based on the most recent preliminary reports). I keep thinking that these poor people probably haven't slept in days. I noticed that there was already a story referring to them as the "Fukushima 50"

Actually it appears that they were off-site for 45 minutes. There was a spike in radiation, they do not know why it spiked. I'm trying to get the latest update from the IAEA but right now, their traffic is so high that I can't get the page to load!

I will update as I get more information.

Cheers
Aj

Here's the latest from the IAEA.

Japan Earthquake Update (16 March 2011, 03:55 UTC)
Japanese authorities have informed the IAEA that a fire in the reactor building of unit 4 of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant was visually observed at 20:45 UTC of 15 March. As of 21:15 UTC of the same day, the fire could no longer be observed.

Fire of 14 March

As previously reported, at 23:54 UTC of 14 March a fire had occurred at unit 4. The fire lasted around two hours and was confirmed to be extinguished at 02:00 UTC of 15 March.

Water level in unit 5

Japanese authorities have also informed the IAEA that at 12:00 UTC of 15 March the water level in unit 5 had decreased to 201 cm above the top of the fuel. This was a 40 cm decrease since 07:00 UTC of 15 March. Officials at the plant were planning to use an operational diesel generator in unit 6 to supply water to unit 5.

The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.


Japan Earthquake Update (15 March 2011, 22:30 UTC)
Japanese authorities have informed the IAEA that the evacuation of the population from the 20-kilometre zone around Fukushima Daiichi has been successfully completed.

The Japanese authorities have also advised that people within a 30-km radius to take cover indoors. Iodine tablets have been distributed to evacuation centres but no decision has yet been taken on their administration.

The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.

A new quake hit Japan about 15 minutes ago. Enough to make buildings sway in Tokyo. From the BBC: "The Japan Meteorological Agency said a change in sea levels was possible, the AFP reports."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...pt=T1&iref=BN1

Continuing problems raise fears of greater radiation threat By the CNN Wire Staff
March 16, 2011 12:34 a.m. EDT

Still, many conflicting reports. Verification is difficult and it appears the Japanese government is quite angry with the utility company that runs this plant in terms of not reporting the full story with on-going problems and to the Japanese government. So much is going on there all at one time.

The 50 remaining workers have been evacuated from the plant due to radiation levels (gamma level). It sounds like this is a temporary measure.

I heard one talking head say that pregnant women and young children should be out of the area, as they are most vulnerable to radiation, I hope that already happened, before the talking head said it. In the late 80's early 90's I worked at a preschool that had several families that had "survived" Chernobyl, the long lasting effects, the future health issues, and in fact deaths makes one question the term "survival". I just keep praying.

[QUOTE=Mtn;302259]I heard one talking head say that pregnant women and young children should be out of the area, as they are most vulnerable to radiation, I hope that already happened, before the talking head said it. In the late 80's early 90's I worked at a preschool that had several families that had "survived" Chernobyl, the long lasting effects, the future health issues, and in fact deaths makes one question the term "survival". I just keep praying.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your statement about quality of life in terms of survival from radiation exposure. Something to consider with future building of nuclear power plants worldwide. Frankly, I fear the present and future lack of R&D funds in the US (both public and private- Wall St investors don't like the risk in nuclear power). What is learned by this situation can't be corrected unless research is supported further.

There are so many variables involved in designing and building, then effectively running these plants. Yet, the magnitude of the natural disasters hitting those plants and how they rendered even the battery back up for cooling the cores inoperable demonstrates vulnerability even with the best and the brightest working in this field. And politics do get in the mix that I think blocks the real experts in these fields to build the best and safest plants possible.

Sitting with an elderly Japanese neighbor this past few days and hearing about what radiation posining does to people has been quite sobering. Her initial responses to what her home country is going through, as well as the loss of family still living there was one thing- the shift in her emotional response while hearing of the radiation threat is something else.

The new photos of the damage to the plants in Japan make me want the 50 workers that left for a short time to not be there at all.

Here is a link to a Mayo site about radiation posining and symptoms.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/rad...CTION=symptoms

ATL;They'll be back. The Japanese are very honorable and proud. They would die for family and friends. Their behavior through all this is exemplary. I have not heard of any major looting, etc. We should learn this from them if this happens to us.