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I like Scuba, laughed and cried. Although I am not a public figure, I have much in common with Chaz. I have seen many documentaries, TV shows, read books, online stuff, but for me, this one knocked it out of the ballpark.
On another note, maybe it is time to drop my beloved identity of Butch. I never felt the entire woman identified stuff and the moniker of Butch served me very well. I do make the distinction of not being a cisgender man by using Transman. I am tempted to delete this because I am doing stream of consciousness writing. |
I had dreams all night of the part where it was said " see flat chest".
It won't happen for me in this lifetime, but one can always play the lottery. |
I thought this doc was very well done- especially in terms of all the stuff thrown his way because of celebrity status parents.
For me, the commonality of many gender related issues (and the violence we unfortunately share) that I feel I have in common with transmen and women came through. I haven't felt this way with other docs on transitioning before. I think this is because it took on so much more of the human condition and how people relate to one another. Makes me feel good even though I can't explain it all very fully. |
I liked it a lot and I thought it was done accurately and respectfully. I especially liked that Dr. Brownstein was in it, and the scene where it showed Chaz having his drains removed, well I was in that exact same office yesterday having my drains removed by Dr. Brownstein. I got a chance to see my chest with a hand-held mirror exactly like Chaz. It was kind of surreal watching someone else have the exact same experience I had just had earlier in the day. (see my posts in the FTMs and Transitioning thread for more info on my top surgery).
I could see how hard it was for Chaz and his mom to navigate this change together. She is going though her own transition around this, but I see her trying and that is great. His patience and understanding with her underscores the love between them. He was so brave to do this in public, and I hope this brings a lot more awareness and understanding to the public at large. *thumbs up* |
What I wrote on my FB page this morning
Things I liked:
It was real. They showed how life keeps going on even in the midst of trying to get your "transition checklist" checked off. I liked that some time was dedicated to transgender youth and that there are parents who get behind their kids and are proactive. I liked that so many members of Chaz's family were included, including his chosen family and support circle. I also think including the time with his ex was helpful. I can't quite articulate just what yet....but I thought it was significant. Things I didn't care for: Even though his relationship is a big part of his life, I almost felt like I was seeing stuff that was just too personal....or TMI.....some things just felt kinda "ugh" to me. I guess that's what documentaries do though. I didn't like that his mother was in a separate, special space and that his only interaction with her was at a premiere. But then again, to do it any other way may not have been realistic. It was clear they don't spend much time together; I guess that just made me feel a little sad. There he was playing games in the home of his step-mother, but there wasn't any down time like that with his own mother. An aside: I found myself pretty shocked that he had to borrow money to pay for his surgery. Cher's millions aside, I just always assumed there was money there.......maybe an inheritance from Sonny??? I don't know. I mean...it's certainly not relevant. I just took note of that and was really surprised. |
I don't have OWN and I've been trying to find it online. The OWN network just has trailers. :(
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I've seen several DOC's on transgender and transitioning. They were all good but this one was by far the best. I liked the "real life" stuff in it. Like Thinker I was shocked he had to borrow the money for the surgery also. I know he has the book out now, but I wonder what he does for a living. Jen is a student and I never heard either of them say ok I'm off to work. I'm not sure how expensive "T" is but I'm sure it isn't free.
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I like the documentary a lot my only problem with it was the "aggressive scenes because of T" I know some people get more aggressive on T but others like me mellow out. I just didn't like that it reinforced that "image" of someone on T.
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It seems like most of you do feel this documentary is one to recommend to people- am I right about this? I don't want to tell someone it is helpful and accurate based upon my take on it as a non-trans person. Also, it has an awful lot to take in- is it the best one available for people that really have very little knowledge on the subject? Would like opinions on this. Thanks. |
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I think it depends on what your goals are in seeking out a documentary on transgendered/transexual people. For example, if I was going to transition, I would probably choose the Lisa Ling trans documentary to share with my mother over this one, as I think that it gives more of a "feel" of the process and more information. But, if I wanted to "normalize" trans life I might choose this doc. I dunno, those are my thoughts this morning. I may need more coffee. :seeingstars: |
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***As a matter of fact, I remember getting a kind of wide-eyed look during his pre-surgical consult because it was sooooo rushed and vague (in my opinion, of course). I kind of think that was for the sake of the cameras/film and that Chaz had already spent some time with Dr. B. So there wasn't anything in there about *how* to start and move through those processes. And I'm not suggesting that there should have been; that wasn't the focus of this particular documentary. There are lists upon lists on the internet that a questioning person can use as resources to begin the work of creating his or her plan for transition. That's would I recommend........that and sitting down with someone who has been through it so they can answer some questions and help as the individual formulates his or her own plan. |
I had mixed feelings about the documentary. I admire Chaz because of his courage to really bring FtM out to the forefront of the conversation ( documentary, conversations with Oprah, article in NYTimes, etc). I think it has taken much courage to go through this transition in front of the world. I know Chaz has had media exposure his whole life... and that it may have been impossible to do this in private... but I still admire his embrace of it... Amazing...
In many ways I lost respect for Chaz though... I know depression, I know wanting to sit on a couch for a year playing video games, I know emotional pain. We all do. There were times I felt Chaz is a bit spoiled... He has a girlfriend who is working through a Master's degree and he sat on the couch for a YEAR playing video games? There is so much to be done on this planet... I don't know what Chaz does for work.. if he does work... I know he is an activist at this point as a transman... but besides that I don't see much activity ... and maybe it was just my perception.. but what an opportunity for activist work! Chaz has a beautiful home.. That KITCHEN ... omgoodness. Clearly, he has assets... perhaps it is Cher's, I don't know. Perhaps he has made a living of his own... I don't know. But there were times I was just sitting there saying to myself "Buck up Chaz... get off the couch, stop bitching, and DO something." I know this video is one way. I know speaking at rallies, is one way, I know going through the transition in such a public way is one way... but there are many of us who do ALL of this and still have full time jobs. And if he IS doing stuff... I wish it had been included in the complexity of Becoming Chaz Just was what I was thinking during the documentary.... |
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I too had similar thoughts as I took in the detail of his home, the neighborhoods, his friends and family. I like Thinker was surprised that Chaz borrowed the money for top surgery from his sponsor. The video game thing I could not relate too but sitting on a couch for one year I could. There was a period in my life a few years back that it all just fell apart for me. I am grateful that because of the career I have chosen, I was able to take the time off. I suspect that Chaz has privilege most of us here do not. His privilege, "celebrity" has provided for the opportunity to bring Trans people and issues to the consciousness of main stream. I am concerned that many will think that all Transmen think, feel and experience their gender identity in the same fashion. I wish there was greater discussion of the various shades of "Trans" under the umbrella of Transmen. I realize the documentary is about becoming Chaz, but in all of the various interviews and media blitz taking place right now, I have not heard anything about this is Chaz's experience and there are so many that have a different perspective. After all does mainstream take for granted that all cisgendered men are replicas of one another? After all is said and done, IMO, I believe his documentary will bring greater communication and build bridges that assist in making this a better world. |
forgive me if this has been posted, i found it really good- do not watch tv.
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Your not the only one: http://www.autostraddle.com/chaz-bon...-for-me-88312/ It's interesting to see what's happening on Chaz's forums. I've been surprised (or perhaps not so much) to see all of the "Cher" fans starting to show and wanting to talk to Chaz. There have been some interesting side-effects, including the link above being discussed. I've also noticed people tying Chaz' transition to what it's like to being bi, bdsm (one person said that they identified as "being bdsm" since age 5) and so on. Kind of surreal in some ways.. |
What I find and have thanks to my wife, is that his girlfriend has issues to work through as well. We didn't get to see much of what it means for her, and I think that was kind of self serving for Chaz. Often in these threads we discuss what is happening for the FtM, and totally forget that they have partners, when they do, and we skim right over what is going on for the partner.
I just want us all to be aware it isn't all about us, there are other people in our lives that matter just as much as our finding our way in this world. |
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Thank you both. Yes, "the audience" is what I was thinking about, even though I think this doc has some real merit. I did think about some people in my life/family that I have tried to "educate" about the full range of gender- and realized this one would be too much for them (TMI). They would represent a "general audience." Also, LOL... I do want a "stamp of approval" from transpeople if I am going to recommend something to friends, family about the subject. It's hard- I do a lot of eye-rolling myself with comments from people outside of our community. |
After watching the documentary, and then all the late night shows he was on, I am a bit puzzled over his finances. Rosie and I talked about it and thought maybe his home was paid for by the residuals he rec'd from his inheritance from his father (IF he got anything at all or if it went to his stepmother). He is driving a pretty decent SUV, has a nice yard, pool, hot tub, and the clothes. Then says he had to borrow money for his top surgery. Did he have to borrow money for his hrt and his psych. therapy as well? Yes, he lives in the public eye, and had to go thru his transition publically. However, what is his job? What is his g/f job since graduating from her master's program? How does he pay for his trips to go to The Spirit Conference? I also wonder if his docs were doing the services "pro-bono" because of his celebrity status and knowing about the documentary they were going to be involved in it. The same for his attorney being present for the top surgery. That bill must have been nothing short of huge. |
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I watched Chazz on Piers Morgan last night the show was pretty good,unfourtunatly I didnt see the doc cause I dont get own.I was surprised as anyone about that he had to borrow $$ for top surgery,my son watched most of the show with me and the things he ask me were long time in comeing between us.One thing he ask was did I feel the same way about my cheaticels as Chazz..I said ..yes.Then he as why I havent persued top surgery?I told him that money was one thing..another was how he would deal with the changes,how people he knew would feel ect.Then I was ask how much dose this top urgery cost..I really have forgotten as I just see no chanch of me doing that at my age as well as health issues..I told him sevberal thousand at least...Besides no one dose that surgery hear even tho I have herd someone dose, im not really shure.All this made both of us do some thin king wich is good.
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I enjoyed the documentary. I actually thought as a partner that many of the issues we deal with were shown and explored through Jen. I found their relationship very hard to watch. Their was a lot of tension and grief that I could feel. When she said she has to get know him over and over as things change and progress I could really relate to that. You do never know what is in store! A physical change, a different way of relating. Some could be just normal changes couples go through but there is usually a question or thought 'is this transition related'.
What I really would have liked to have seen is more about how they arrived at the idea that they are now a straight couple. I don't think all couples get to that place. I am not there yet. My concern is that the general public will look at Chaz and think that this is how it is for every transman. I do though very much appreciate his coming forward and sharing his story. Oprah is big time mainstream. I am hoping this will contribute towards transpeople being recognized and accepted for who they are. |
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Someone earlier was taken back that the interview with Cher were seperate, yet I could relate to that. If my mom was being interviewed it would be far more comfortable for both of us for it be seperate. I saw the emphasis to be more on the emotional and relational aspects of transition then the nity grity struggles and process of transition. |
I think that those of us who were shocked that he borrowed money for his surgery and that he had such a nice place and those who've questioned, including myself how he makes his living, I don't think we were being nosey. For me personally I am curious as to how anyone pays for the surgery. I don't know how I will ever pay for it. I know some folks use credit cards some probably save for it or borrow for it.
For me I'd have to save a small fortune to have the surgery because I'd have to have enough money to pay my bills while I was out of work and who really knows how long that would be, since it is likely different for each person depending on the job they hold. I think we all realize he could be living off of something his Dad might have left him, but if he is I think he wouldn't have borrowed the money to have it done. Maybe I will ask the finance question in the trans zone. |
I just watched Chazz and Jenny on Piers Morgan. Glad to have seen all of the coverage to date. I saw them treated respectfully and openly by Piers, and am glad he did the interview. In this show, I saw a maturation of the two of them and Chazz knowing part of this was the leveling out his T level.
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This came in an email from SheWired/The Advocate
http://www.shewired.com/g-spot/chaz-...ition%E2%80%99 Also the latest issue of People Magazine (the one with Shania Twain on the cover) has a pretty good article about Chaz and his book. |
I really loved this. Chaz is a very courageous man for being so open about his transition and pill addiction. Awesome person, but the girlfriend is super annoying!!!
Duchess |
I just bought Chaz's book Transition. Was expensive... but want to see what else Chaz has going on! Will comment as I get to it...!
Anyone else read it yet? |
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~Theo~ :bouquet: |
Corkey, I wasn't being any different than anyone else thinking about Chaz's finances. He was the one who brought it up. I also have no idea of the relationship Chaz and his attorney have. No clue. I have not bought his book on tape, nor have I read the People magazine article, and so on. I apologize if I offended or insulted anyone. |
I hope to buy it at some point, looks great to Me :-)
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I am leaving this thread, now. |
yeah me too,
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I dunno, I kinda see where Andrew is going with his curiosity (and mine, too, btw) about how Chaz managed to pay for everything, his celebrity status and family name aside. In fact, I'll own up to having those same questions in my mind as well.
I think that, as transmen, we DO wonder about finances, because that detail is exactly what keeps many transPEOPLE from being able to go through the transition process. Employment is the other valid question. A LOT of guys who transition lose jobs, family, etc.. This turns life, as we knew it before, on its very ear, so yes, we do wonder about that. Finances ARE an issue, and when you put something like this in the public eye, I think it's reasonable to then be honestly curious as to how Chaz financed his transition. I think a little more could have (and maybe should have) been revealed about Chaz's circumstances, since this is a very big part of the transition process for everyone else. I paid entirely out of pocket for Every. Single. Thing. in my transition, at first. It wasn't until I got going a bit that I was able to get the VA to cover my T and the lab followup. I paid entirely out of pocket for my top surgery. Thank goodness I already had years of tenured employment with the Federal Gov't under my belt and protections as a Disabled Veteran, or I might have found myself out of a job the moment I mentioned "transition" to my employer. These ARE valid questions. Insurance doesn't cover medical transition, for the most part, and many, many transpeople don't even have money for traditional medical insurance anyway, so I think that the curiosity surrounding Chaz's finances IS justified. Maybe he was just saving those details for his book?? MY opinion is that, if he's going to be putting a "face" on transfolks and offering up his own experience to the public eye, then he should perhaps be a bit more forthcoming with the financial details of his transition. :winky: My .02 ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
I come from a different generation I guess where questioning anyones finances is just not done. He's an author, he works with youth, those are both fine professions. How much he makes and from where, none of my business.
As for folks leaving the thread, stay and participate. |
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Chaz chose to go public with this process, however, and I certainly applaud his personal strength and inner resolve. It also takes money and the money part of it is so huge for so many. The struggle to become who we are is very difficult, but the money end of it is equally as daunting and sometimes presents an insurmountable obstacle for so many, many people. That's why I think it's so important to be just as transparent with that part of it. Chaz did say that he had to borrow the money for his top surgery, and that's enough information for me, at least. I did, however, notice his nice home, furnishings, clothes, etc., and wonder how he supported himself, moneywise. His girlfriend is a student, as it was said, but I didn't see why Chaz didn't bring up what he'd been doing for a living (income), prior to his transition process. I was wondering if he had to deal with the employment issues that transition involves, because that's a big deal, too, especially in these days and times when transpeople commonly have fewer protections against discrimination in the workplace than GLB's do, in a lot of places. Outing yourself to an employer is a big thing in the process of transition. This is why I still have questions about Chaz's transition and I'm wondering if the book he's just published will contain any more details of his transition. I guess I'll have to read the book. :winky: I, too, wish others would stay and participate in the discussion. :) ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
I think there are class issues which can raise some of these questions ... and to me they can be valid questions depending how they are framed. I don't think there was judgment in the questions posed at all... but that is me....
Perhaps what the dialogue that is happening here is reflecting is a desire to know more... that the documentary asked so many questions that were left unanswered... or perhaps, depending on the viewers perspective there were a lot of unanswered issues... I know it must have been hard for Chaz to fit this all into a 90 minute (did I get the time wrong?) docu... and it is refreshing (for me anyway) to start his book and have come key phrases already made: "My books were heartfelt attempts to give something back" (page 2) "I can remember going to Washington, DC while my father was still alive.... I remember thinking at that moment how cool it would be to run for office one day... to serve my country... But then it occurred to me that I have to be called a "congresswoman"- and that one word just stopped me short" (page 3) I will post more... but what I can say is... Run Chaz... I bet you could do some great things... You have courage that not many politicians exhibit these days...I just got back from a Victory Fund strategizing session. Now there is an organization that you could get involved in (if you already aren't). (BTW, I am only on page 18) |
I can see both sides as well, being curious about where he got the money from for his top surgery but unless he chooses to divulge that information it doesnt matter to Me where he got it from ............ it just makes Me happy to know he was able to get it done :-)
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