For me being stonefemme embodies so much more than what I will or will not do in bed. Those boundaries are set based on the likes and dislikes of my partner as well as my own.

Personally, I find great power in my femininity and the traditional trappings of a woman. Stonefemme is more about my general behavior, the way I carry and present myself to the world, and the relationship dynamics I seek.

being a stone butch i have usualy dated stone femme.. BC the understanding to me means stone..set in stone..non variable in certian ways of life, love,sex, housekeeping...ect...that are expressed up front. i have found (for me)stone to stone relationship seems to have a more compassion/respect for the non changable.
this is it take me or leave me.. just dont try to change me.

Hey, lilith - I've hi-lighted in your paragraph what I'm addressing in my response. I don't believe I've contradicted myself - when I said it was 'right', I was saying that it was right 'for me', not that it is THE right way for everyone. If it came across that way, I apologize for the confusion. I never intend to speak for anyone but myself. I thought it was understood, that when someone expresses an opionion, it is their 'own' sentiment/belief - that goes across the board for any postings on threads. Anyway, that's the way I read posts - as someone's personal opionion.

I love this. The way you live and describe yourself really makes me think outside the box. I like how your unique traits fit you, and you're really okay with the fact that there is no label. :)

There is indeed a label for you. It's called Stone Femme. If you are a stone sexual top and you are femme, you are a Stone Femme. Yes, this is a maddening double meaning, and it really sucks.

defining myself!
 

I hesitate to do this because I think the backlash is going to be horrendous, but:

Stone Femme is your label for her, not her own. It's dangerous to classify others based on our personal interpretations of what a label means.

I just want to tell you that there are other StoneFemme Top/Domme in this world.....if you mean that you don't allow vaginal penetration and pack. The ones that I know call themselves StoneFemme Top/Domme. They are also pretty cock identified.

If you are just talking being a Femme Domme/Top who packs, is dominant, is (or not) cock id'd, and allows vaginal penetration, oral sex, etc, well you are not alone in that respect either..

Well, I certainly hope there's no backlash for saying something so reasonable. You're right that I should have asked more questions or explained the terms better as Toughy did in the above post.

I'm too quick to talk about this because I'm so dissatisfied with the terms we use.

Love this !
 

I am stone, but not made of stone.
__________________

I am stone! and I do not like to be penetrated ever!!! But I do enjoy the hands of my femme caressing me as long as its done in a non feminine manner. I like to know that she loves me and loves how I am making her feel and her touch
speaks loudly about what she is feeling.

Touch me baby, show your daddy how he makes you feel:superman:

Oh lord, heart be still!

Thank you Sweet_Amor_Taino.

Ok, I have a generalized question: Do you think the dating pool is limited because you ID as a Stone Femme (in whatever capacity that means to you)?

Oh, yes. Without doubt, yes. My dating pool has gotten very small, indeed. What's more, I face every possible romantic encounter with trepidation because I know that I'll have to explain myself to someone who may turn out to think that there's something terribly wrong with me. If I were more traditionally femme, my stonefemme boundaries might not seem quite so surprising to an interested butch.

I've been told that my dating pool would enlarge considerably if I were into trans guys, but I'm not.

I agree wholeheartedly with your dissatisfaction and appreciate your feedback on the matter. I was just having the "self identification" discussion with a friend the other night and we were expressing our displeasure that it needs to be done at all, but then how can we represent ourselves while avoiding being classified by the labels others apply to us?

Thank you for being so honest and facing your fears about talking to your partners. I feel like people who are brave like that should be thanked more often. In my mind, discussing intimacy boundaries is often like coming out, over and over again. My bitter side is also saying that there aren't enough people who address things like comfort, boundaries, and pleasure.

If you think your dating pool is small, you should see mine. It's more of a puddle, than a pool. lol

What if no one is jumping in the pool?
 

My own personal pool is pretty big. The water feels lovely & quite warm.

My criteria pretty much is sexual attraction-do I feel those butterflies? Is my heart pounding? If yes, that is the first step. Butch? Yes! TG? OK-fine with me-yes! Daddy? OK, I am interested-tell me more about the dynamic please! Yes! Stone butch? OK, lived as a stone femme in love for a long time!

I am not talking about all those other values that are so important-I am strictly talking about the initial attraction that tells one: yes, I would love to go out with you!

The pool shrinks a great deal when you are older. Not my choice, it is just a
reality. I am not limiting it by my identity as a femme.

I am dipping my toe in the pool, but I have not jumped and no one has pulled me in the pool (or pushed me in either...).

Regardless of how big or small our dating pool is, don't we at least need to
take that chance? As long as my own personal boundaries are respected, since age is now a factor in my dating pool; I personally need to be open to all
possibilities (which I may not have considered in my 20's).

Cannonball coming! Splash!

I agree, the size of the pool is getting smaller with age. This saddens me!

My response to ALL of the questions posted above...
 

First, I am brand new to the site. I am so glad to have found this thread! I just read through the entire thing, and thought I would post all my thoughts on different aspects that came up at once. I apologize in advance for the length (and the possible TMI!).

1) What does "stone femme" mean in general?

I think we really need to deconstruct this term. For me, "stone" refers to a type of sexual expression - sex with very clear boundaries around touch. "Butch" and "femme" add more clarity to the stone part - do my boundaries revolve around what is done to me or what I do to others? However, "butch" and "femme" also refer to someone's particular flavor of gender presentation, and perhaps even the flavor of gender presentation they are attracted to.

And there's the disconnect, the ambiguity of the term. "Stone" is well understood. It's the loaded "butch" or "femme" used to modify it that's a problem, because those words have so many layered meanings. Maybe we should come up with another way to modify the word "stone" to refer solely to boundaries, and let "butch" and "femme" refer strictly to gender ID? That might make things easier for stone femmes who don't want to be penetrated. And would also create a safe place for butches who are cool with receiving penetration but not necessarily penetrating their partner (with all this variety I'm sure there are some of those too.) Something to think about...

2) What does "stone femme" mean to me?

Sexually I'm stone femme because I'm strictly a "catcher" when it comes to sex. I have a high sex drive and I am VERY responsive, but actively going beyond cuddling and petting is just not me. Mouth-to-mouth kissing is often a struggle, much less any sort of penetration on my partner. I tried for years to force myself to "reciprocate" and felt awful afterwards, like I had allowed myself to be violated. This led to all kinds of feelings of guilt, inadequacy, judgment from my partners, worries over being frigid, a reluctance to get involved in any relationship at all...

It was only when someone pointed out that I was a stone femme - and reassured me that being a stone femme was totally ok - that I was able to actually accept and enjoy my sexuality. Now I revel in the idea that my responsiveness works for my partner, that I can care for them in ways that compliment without mimicking the ways they care for me. It frees me to explore my sexuality, cuddle/pet/massage my partner, and do all the sharing I love to do in relationships without fear, guilt, or doubt.

My also being a femme gender-wise just makes the term all-around more comfortable for me.

2) Are you stone femme because you date stone butches, or is it something innate? Does it change according to your partner?

My being stone femme has absolutely nothing to do with my partners and everything to do with me. I have my boundaries regardless of who I'm with. However, I exclusively go for masculine gender presentations regardless of the physical plumbing - butches, stone butches, trans, even a few bioguys. Since I'm stone relationships tend to work better if my partner of whatever ID is stone too, and stone butches and transmen seem to be the majority of the "masculine" and "stone" crowd.

3) Is the dating pool limited because I ID as a stone femme?

Oh, yes. I prefer to save the emotional energy of a relationship for those who can work with my methods of sexual expression - and everyone else seems to do the same. However, when I do date someone who is cool with my being stone there is this mutually created non-judgmental space that is incredibly comfortable and freeing. Even if it doesn't work out romantically I've never not gained a friendship out of it.

And that is PLENTY of babble on the topic. Thanks for posting something so interesting!

Well, when I want to share what something means to me, I start by typing it out. After some editing and font adjusting, I submit it.

*grin*

It is hard to let go of our inner critc, isn't it? Just know that your audience is rooting for you, not against you, and most if not all know at least some of what you are going through and have gone through.

:stillheart:

Thank you for bringing up chest versus breast/s. That is a very important line drawn in probably nearly all Stone relationships, I would say.

I've read the paragraph regarding Stone Femmes a couple of times and it just doesn't sit right with me. I know what you're saying, so it must be my own scope reading it askew.

Just to throw it out there, and possibly to confuse others more, Stone Femmes are usually but not always bottoms. As Cheryl has said earlier, there's a lot of confusion between stonefemme and Stone Femmes and those of us who are, in the initial design of things, stonefemmes but like the look of Stone Femme better add to the confusion. That would be me. I'm not Stone in that I don't like and/or want penetration or certain touch. I partner with those who do identify with those boundaries. Seeing stonefemme in lower case and squished together makes the grammar snob in me all :twitch: and that just can't happen, so I capitalize it and spread it out.

Softness has had a wonderful metamorphosis since I've first known her and I love where she is now. I would have also said that she was a Stone Femme or Stone Femme Top, but it certainly does help to add Top or Domme or both, if it feels appropriate.

In the end, it doesn't matter what label others put on you. I think the forced labelization of this world is what has made a lot of folks reject labels as a whole. They see restrictions in themselves and their loved ones. I, being anal retentive 'n chit, see order and a classification system that tells what group this person is in and this one. Order makes me happy, so maybe I should go with the label of Queer Stone Anal Femme Girl. Imagine the dialogue THAT would create. :)

If you want to call yourself a FemDomme or Stone Femme Top or a pretty, pretty Tulip with thorns, that's your right, and those who care about you and respect you will do their best to remember that.

This is true.

This just goes to show what a difference adding "I think you might be" or "From my experience, you are" onto a sentence can make.

I do, but that's not necessarily a bad thing sometimes. It means there's less to wade through. If I were single, I could pop my preferences into an online filter and click and then have a handful of folks to look at and think about rather than pages and pages of potential partners. It's less time consuming!

Another thing to keep in mind is that it only takes one (unless you are poly!), so it doesn't matter how big the pool or pond or puddle is if that person is in it.

Good for you! I will say, however, that not all Stone Femmes (or stonefemmes) are traditional. Some of us are OFOS, but some of us are rather modern and have shaped our identities to fit our preferences and not the other way around.

I love this thread!
 

Not only am I learning about the diversity amongst our femme community but am learning more about myself and my own needs/desires and core self!

Hugs to all if you:)

Hate spell-check on my phone! To all of you not "if you"!

Gemme, I have the biggest crush on your brain right now. I'm in awe of your ability to soothe ruffled feathers, find commonality with everyone, and eloquently state your points in a manner that is respectful to everyone involved.

I wanna be Gemme when I grow up!! :)

Gemme I think if you look in a different post I talked about StoneFemme's who are Tops.........forgive me for forgetting my appropriate upper and lower case designations......laughin...

I think we are in agreement. stone femme bottom, Stone Femme Top. I'm very familiar with the Top version....yummy when that itch needs scratched...:toypony: I find the bottom version to be really yummy also.

(if I am making no sense or have misread you...........I just got in from camping for a week at Big Sur. I am still hearing the Big Sur river and the ocean waves.....)

Awww, thank you! This is very sweet of you to say!

But forget about the being Gemme when you grow up....the world wouldn't be able to handle two of us in existence!

:giggle:

No worries, Toughy. I *knew* what you were saying but I *read* it differently. So, yes, I agree that we're basically saying the same thing. I just had a clarification itch that needed to be scratched.

*grin*

Congrats on your trip! I would love to get away from things for a week.

Yes, complete. I felt so much freedom and relief and joy the day I was able to stop thinking of myself as a "bad lesbian" and start knowing myself as a stone femme.

i have had all kinds of sexual relationships with women. i am currently a bottom/sub and am sexually available to my Dominants. My limits are few.

However, one of the other kinds of sexual relationships i have had frequently over the years is as a stone sexual Top. i like to fuck girls. If i meet someone and they are not a Top and we have sexual chemistry that we want to act on, i fuck them. They do not fuck me. These are usually femmes. i am not attracted very often to butch bottoms. Or if i am, they are switches and not bottoming to me.

i like fucking girls A LOT. Every once in a while one will BEG to fuck me, and i will do it. It's fine. It's not like i am squicked. It can even be fun. But it's not what i am in it for with them.

i like these relationships a lot. They feed me. i have in a number of cases never even gotten naked in this kind of relationship. i really like these girls. i like the dynamic.

i am clearly NOT a stone femme Top, but i do have those boundaries in certain kinds of connections. They feel right. And the girls like it.

When I think of a stone femme, I think of the individual you are portraying here. The assured confident woman that knows for sure and certain that she does not want to have any part with feminizing her stone butch partner. Ok allow me to kind of explain where my mind is going with this... As I mentioned in the stone butch thread, I had partners months and years later in our relationship ask for the unaskable... To me, and speaking strictly for myself, it makes me a bit uneasy and standoffish to hear a femme say that she is "open to anything." It kind of feels like there is room for options, but for me I am certain that there is absolutely, positively no options. I guess it's that trust thing and my past experiences that have me feeling like this. I just want to know that the femme I partner with is 100% certain. There is someone for everyone and just because I am strict with how I expect things to be does not mean that there are not different levels to the stone butch continuum. I am just saying that I am all the way to the far right on that continuum... like... back against the wall, no more space for further options, far right. I hope this does not offend anyone and how they perceive themselves to be... This is my own personal feeling about the stone butch that I am. And thank you for this thread and all your words on the topic... I am thoroughly enjoying it!! :) :koolaid:

The Dragonista in Me: A Queering of my identity in terms of what Stone, Alpha, and Femme mean to me.
 

I made a post about 2 years ago on another forum board, subjectively, about my idea of who I think I am. At the time, I only owned a part of my identity: Being Stone and Femme (two separate identities, the way I see it for me). It’s only been lately that I have been willing to publicly own my Alpha side. I am a Stone Alpha Femme: Three complete identities on their own yet meld oh so beautifully inside the crucible of me.

I have edited my previous post for clarity so that I can marry another aspect of my identity, my Alpha side. My offering is a revision of ‘my thesis;’ a description of my own personal evolution.

I begin my revision by invoking what Alpha looks like on me (it’s my favorite dress but I only let my Alpha side out on special occasion) through filters of two separate lenses: Stone and Femme, both of which are tempered and seasoned by the Alpha in me.

I first came into my Queer Femme identity fairly late in life. In the beginning, back when I first knew that I was not of a heterosexual orientation, the only term I knew about that seemed to describe me was "Lesbian." That term didn't really work much for me over the years because as I grew in my identity, I knew that something was not entirely right for me. I am the female of the species. I own other gendered constructs as well, but I was about 43 when I came into my brand of Femme. What being Femme translates into for me is a very Queer process and feeling. I was about 47 when spending a considerable amount of time reading forums discussions labeled Stone Femme, which helped me to explore what being Stone might mean to me and by the time I was 49, I came to see that I have more of a Stone side than I cared to admit to and I'm not saying that my feeling that I am Stone, in my own ways, is a bad thing. It's a good thing for me because of my long journey in finding out exactly what works for me as a Queer identifying Femme.

Owning Stone identity on the Femme spectrum is connected to what I prefer sexually. My preference is that I am the one who receives sexually initiated contact. I cannot experience acts of sexuality if it is expected that I would be the person to initiate in the way that a queer identifying Stone counterpart would. I am a willing Stone Femme bottom: This is how I fully submit within a sensual/sexual experience. The way my sexual counterpart penetrates me (intellectually, emotionally, viscerally, et al) gives me the greatest pleasure and causes me to have the most fulfilling encounter possible. I have a very deep need to be "filled" in ways that only a Stone identifying partner could give to me. It sends me into total orbit, allowing myself to experience sex this way, the only way I can fully experience our exchange of energy. However, as much as I can be a Stone Femme bottom, my sexual repertoire is a kaleidescope refracting prismatically all the possiblities of sexual pleasure yet discovered or well known.

However, other aspects of my personal makeup take on and exhibit other Stone qualities (boundaries, for example). To a certain degree, I am hyper-private about myself: Lots of people might say that they feel that they experience issues of privacy in all sorts of ways. But when I use the term private, I am saying that I enforce what the term private (or privacy) can mean in hyper-like ways. Like when it comes to disclosing aspects of my life or what preferences I have, as it pertains to particular sexual acts or acts of sensuality (in face-to-face encounters or in text). I trend toward dressing my expression with creative disclosureso that my ideas, or what I have to say, makes its appearance in subversive ways. I have to be in a certain frame of mind and have an established bond of trust in order to be able to even talk about things that are entirely very personal or might be connected to issues of past abuse.

My experiential views of abuse does inform my definition of Alpha. As well, my parents and family life on a rural dairy farm groomed my Alpha traits in peculiar ways. Similar to scientific study on alpha members of a dog pack, my place and role in my family sibling arrangement (second eldest, eldest female) took on the scope of alpha status because my parents innately recognized me as being their ‘brightest star’: Their ‘atom’ worth nurturing in their cosmic, organic, molecular arrangement (the constellation of us as siblings). Whether I wanted to comply or not, I was charged with the care of my siblings and entrusted with complicated decision making processes that only grown adults might take on willingly. It was, and still is, an “it is what it is” kind of thing. I took care of things; made sure our work got done, and delegated tasks and managed timelines so steep in learning skills that I swear my brain has suffered every step of the way since time first began for me! But every aspect of family life (the good, bad or downright ugly) prepared me for raising my sons and managing whatever life brings to me (past, present and future). It seems to me that any kind of suffering I endure drives the Alpha in me.

I’ve been in the online butch-femme community for almost nine years now and it’s taken me a lifetime (it would seem) to bloom: Presently, the dressing room fragrance of my evolutionary process smells like the essence of Stone Alpha Femme (Dragons Blood- my essential oil perfume fits me so perfectly).

First....
Thank you all for sharing on this topic. It is a blessing to be allowed to explore understanding through your experiences and thoughts.

Next...
I choose to quote stone4play because it speaks to my fear/concern... How does one explore their changing notions of themselves and sexual expression without hurting, pushing, disrespecting others in the process? I deeply do not want to hurt others in my deepening and awakening. I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk.

Further more... My understanding of boundaries, what I desire, really desire, in an intimate relationship are emerging as I learn the words for what I feel. As my pain illuminates what I want to be by being in contrast to how I am being. I feel like I can breath a bit knowing "stonefemme" is something I can define and refine. I am thrilled to know that being the receiver is pleasure for another. I strongly desire to be, not just submissive, a person that creates a place for one to be and receive them and have my enjoyment be their pleasure, a shared pleasure.

:moonstars:

Rereading my entry seems to give the impression that all I am after is an experienced stonefemme. Perhaps that is where I was in the moment of that entry but I have since come to realize that even I, as a stone butch, had to explore and experiment in order to know exactly what I was seeking and who I was. I liken it now unto an individual seeking a job... one cannot get a job if they do not have the experience, but they cannot get the experience if they do not have a job. I see now that yes, it is something that needs to be worked out (together) in order for both people to realize that they are stone compatible. Keeping an open mind, allows for an open heart, which in turn leaves the door open for all things possible... Thanks for your post Jenna :)

" I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk."

Well said as is your response in toto and other responses here. Self determination is necessarily linked to the freedom to do so without the worry of offense of pushback. It's gratifying to see folks feel free enough and supported enough to ruminate on and forge ahead with their identities. I think you speak to that and the environment it must be nurtured in as well. Your final sentence is exquisite. Thank you for the post.

SoNotHer you are very kind in your openness and complement. I will try to honor the environment here that nurtures us all.

This exploration, naming of what I want, who I am is very daunting. I haven't felt this nervous since the women's retreat where we stood naked in front of each other. And that was very exposing....

I am amazed by our (humans) capacity for growth. That when one is graced with an opportunity to see something a different way it becomes art. There is an art to our conversation about who we are and an art to how we choose to interact with each other.

I needed to read what you said, Stone4play, oh such a short time ago. It gives light to our connectedness in our explorations and need to not only be open but clear.