I don't know if I'm fully in the realm of Old School yet, but I know that I have OS tendencies and that I prefer those who exhibit OS behaviors.

I agree with Wicket's post below as to what that means to me.

Lovely!

why am I old school old fashioned? In MY OPINION and ONLY FOR ME maybe because I am not what I consider new school, new day of age, new ways...

I dont swear alot

I am not disrespectful to myself nor to others....

I dont hang my "tits" out my blouse...in fact they are the girls, not tits...

I like knowing AND understanding the words of songs that are sung not screamed

I cross my legs not uncross them in order to get the attention of that butch over there

smiling at a butch means hello, not wanna fuck?

dancing together means dancing not sex

dating means dating not sex

sex means making love not fucking

fucking comes when love is established and secured

well..there is more but this will start...

The night was warm with just a hint of north breeze now and then.
The dance had ended at midnight and most sailors and soldiers had found their way to hotels and bunks on this three-day liberty.

I met her at the USO canteen, with its crowd of soldiers and working girls who had volunteered their evenings and their company of doughnuts and hot coffee for as long as they would last. Each girl, with her lined hosiery and upsweep, and 2-inch hemline, which had been cut short for the wool needed ocean's away, made herself available to soldiers to boost their morale and their hopes of returning home.

The canteen had grown hot on this night with loud swing music and fast jitterbugs and thoughts of war long forgotton under lilting trumpets and hot saxes and fast drums. It was swing and a time when all of America danced to a different tune.

Midnight struck some time ago and she invited me to her apartment to shave and to bunk on her sofa. It was all on the up and up—a sailor and a single girl both fighting for the same thing, in the name of the war effort, which we thought was the right thing. She was beautiful. I didn't want to touch her for fear of losing her, and yet I wanted to touch her all through the night.

She offered me Johnny Walker Red and a light for filterless smokes and a place to rest on her sofa. I saw that there were things out of line; a door hinge needed fixing, paint had chipped on the kitchen wall, things needed patching and straightening. And I wanted to stay and take care of everything for her, but it wasn't to be.

I could have pursued her and promised her a million things that a million guys would have offered, but I liked her. I was beholden to her generosity and her care that I may or may not ever come back. That alone, meant everything.

The Johnny Walker Red loosened my memories of all that I had loved and all that I could lose in a single detonated charge somewhere in the Pacific. I asked her to dance closer to me, and to a beautiful trumpet that made me forget.

There wasn't time for explanations, or excuses or promises. What mattered in this moment was the feel of her and possibly the last time I would ever see her.

The lights dimmed, the trumpet played and we danced to the unknown on a summer night in 1942...

Flying in and out to say hello. have a good night.

:confused:Is there any other kind?:confused:

I guess I have been lucky in finding any butch I dated being ofos. I love being treated like a lady. I live in an area where the next town over is 65+ and occasionally we shop there..I always get a giggle when I hear the older woman say to her husband "Oh look at that nice young man opening her car door" and than she turns around and they turn red realizing she is in fact a she!...I respect any woman ofos or not who treats another with respect and manners AND trust me it does not go un noticed when its genuine ..and completely NOTICED when its not!:blink::

lol
Lillie

I really like a lot of the sentiment that has been expressed here by Jet and by Tiffany (Mrs. Strutt) and by Softness.

Several descriptions of what OFOS are known to be like, such as: Jet conveying that being OFOS comes from a place of sharing an affinity for romance and passion - something that's innate between the butch and a femme who share and enjoy the dynamic of their relationship dance. I like how Tiffany likened it to "feeling like a soft, many times washed, old cotton t-shirt that fits like a glove" - I like how she decribed that feeling between those who feel they are of the OFOS variety. Also, I enjoyed reading ideas that Softness presented: for example, she was saying that "dating means dating, not sex" and "smiling at a butch means hello" or even "dancing means dancing" together and not something else!

I feel that I am rather old fashioned and of an older, mature, school of thought in that I - for those of you who have met me and spoken with me in person - am pretty quiet by nature and not as 'out loud and proud' as some might think. Even in my past professional career as a practicing, licensed hairdresser (Tiffany might agree with me on this), we serve our clinetele with a gracious spirit and I guess this is what I am trying to say about me - is that there's a spirit of grace that permeates my personality and the way I carry myself. At least I have been told this by people who know me and interact with me on a daily basis.

I have another story (an example) of what I'm like in a different context/situation: My advisor (and Program Director) was gone to Israel on a special trip with colleagues in the department and I needed special assistance. So, I went to our department chairperson - I've had them for several courses - and during our hour long visit to help me resolve a conflict, he said to me that 'I was such a sweetheart of a person' because of how I was trying to make sense of my situation and be considerate of the other person, as well as myself. It felt good to hear him say that to me because sometimes that is not how people read me... if that makes any sense at all.

For me (a Femme perspective), OFOS orientation is connected to -

timing issues: I wait to be invited to dance

romantic notions: a melding of fidelity and trust

relationship ideals: a passionate regard for the traditional

to me, it's an intricate dance of communication skills between two people who share similar values and beliefs and it's not too easy, this dance that we do. That said, it would seem that what I have been able to itemize above might seem to be what most people strive to attain in ordinary ways, but there's something special that occurs between those of us who identify with what OFOS means to those of us who feel we exude these qualities. It seems so hard to decribe in written text - it seems elusive, yet I know and recognise the signs by which we give to one another and how it feels as we live it in our daily lives. Like Jet was saying in an earlier post - being OFOS "is uncomplicated, unpretentious and worn like distressed leather."

To me, that feels so right and describes how I feel about what OFOS is about.
It's late, so if my post seems to not make too much sense, just know that I'm headed to dreamland soon... My pillows are finally calling me!

Good night and sweet dreams to all of you!

On Gilda Radner: Beautiful late night inspiration ~ Thank you, Jet!
 

Jet???

You were here!!!! AND, you posted about Gilda Radner!

Is she amazing or what???

I remember staying up late watching Saturday Night Live and she was my favorite actress-performer!!!! Oh my stars, she was sOoOoOOOoo funny!

She was also an inspiration to me and her husband, Gene Wilder, was such a wonderful husband to her -- even during the greatest battle she ever faced -- and he was so good to her! He is a Saint, in my books!!!! Do you feel that way about Gene Wilder too???

That video you left here is very special - You know at the end of the video where there's a quote left by Gilda???

Life is about not knowing, having to change, taking the moment and making the best of it, without knowing what's going to happen next. Delicious ambiguity.

It's the "ambiguity" piece that has become so important to me, during this past year of studies: One of my favorite professors (in our department), taught me so much this past year on that very thing - ambiguity - and being willing to accept ambiguity because it is an opportunity to explore and discover moments that are shrouded in ambiguity and to not be afraid of the unknown. And to me, this is the priceless part about being in the moment and not knowing what comes next or what change we might need to accept or even use our imagination to creatively find new ways to experience what life offers as we taste ambiguity in our lives! Truly, Gilda's humor and how she faced her fears and battles in life is a shining example and inspiration to us all! This is such a gift to remember Gilda tonight - this helps me sooo much!!!!

Thanks so much Jet for thinking to post about Gilda Radner tonight!

:moonstars:

Have a beautiful day today, everyone!
 

I thought I'd leave a video here this morning before I head out for the day!

I don't know about any of you, but I loved the (TV series) The Dick Van Dyke Show years ago! I always thought of it as a sit-com of an OFOS young couple and their friends and family life!

*enjoy*



:blueheels:

In my sleeping this afternoon, I was dreamily contemplating all the qualities and characteristics about me that identify me as an Old Fashioned Old Skool Femme....

I favor songs that are soulful, sweet and charming - this seems to reflect my type of temperment. Also, I tend to prefer pet nicknames (for me) like: Darling, Sweetheart, Your Majesty (playfully, of course), and Sugar... among other creative references and my circle of friends tends to be rather small (I only have so much energy)! But, that's about as far as I got this afternoon, while I was thinking about things that are typical of me...

I kind of slept the day away tending to my own needs, so I guess I'll be up all night *silly me* !!!

I don't identify with being 'old fashioned' at all.

I am old school. Integrity, manners, charm, do the right thing, protect only when asked, loyalty, compassion, etc.

I love it when a femme comes to me and asks for a dance. Femmes should be strong, powerful, in control, knows what she wants and will work/ask for it.

I love getting flowers. I love giving flowers.

I want to see her out in her glory.....tits showing, slit up the side of her leg skirt, shoes that make me wet (I'm a shoe whore, what can I say), looking/acting like sex walking....ok.....mmmm.......I lost my train of thought....oh yeah.....that is an OS femme in my book...one who owns her body and her sexuality and is not afraid to show the world....and fuck em if they don't like it.

I am always puzzled by the linking of 'old fashioned' with 'old school'. They are two different things in my mind. They are not linked together for me. IF they were, then I would be kicking a butch's ass who looked at my date, making butches ask me (not her) if they can dance with her...and a whole lot of other old fashioned ways of treating women.

I came out in what most folks think of as OFOS times...early 70's.....there is a whole bunch of that old school stuff that I hate and most of it is centered in the old fashioned way in which women were treated.

So for me........I am truly old school. But I truly dislike and am not old fashioned.

Why am I old school
 

I respect my elders
I prefer a woman's soul over looks
I like to be a gentleman to a lady that allows me to
I love old school music 50's 60's 70's
I have to connect with someone on a deep level before I make love to them
I got my ass whipped as a kid. lol
I try to be considerate, if I'm not I don't realize it
I prefer women with old souls
I don't like BS from anyone
I try to learn my lessons from the Universe so I don't have to keep going through the same shit
I see life as life, some things can be changed some cannot either way it goes I enjoy myself and try not to wallow too long
I don't let silly shit affect me
I get over things pretty quickly

I'm sure there is a more but this is a start

OB

Resurrecting this thread.

I don't know how I missed this thread before! In fact, is there another one like it with zero responses? I thought I saw that.

Regardless, I wish I weren't reading this on my phone while at work! I want to go through and savor the entire thread! Sigh.

I hope it stays active, and I'll try to do my part.

Nightshade

Actually, if old fashioned = asexual, victorian, patriarchal oppression then I'm right there with you! But I think perhaps that was mostly a socially acceptable facade. The 'passing' front that everyone presented but most didn't live.

Not having lived through it though, it's complete speculation on my part. I can only imagine though that that embodiment of OF as 'prudishness' had to have been more prevalent in heterosexual lives than in the Butch/femme community where waiting for marriage and having sex to procreate simply wasn't a part of the equation.

And while us femmes have always gotten positive (if unwanted) feedback about our desirability, I cling strongly to the ideal that my foremothers carried within their very core the knowledge that it was up to them to show the butches of the world that they too were sexual forces to be reckoned with. That they were wanted. Needed. Craved. Utterly desired beyond all reason. It was in intricate part of the dance.

I refuse to believe that respect and/or sexual hunger was lacking for either party 'back in the day.'

Many relate OFOS as being about the 1950’s B-F communities, who were faced with hostility from a very conservative mainstream society, lending itself to a time of much violence – while others draw on the periods prior to that when Butch identity concerned itself with courtesy, chivalry and strength without violence. One context is about oppression, while the other is about codes of behaviour.

We can take almost anything out of context, assigning a meaning that helps to legitimise our argument, but what I think matters is intent.

Do I stay cold so that she doesn’t when I offer her my coat, open and hold the door for her, stand when she does, light her cigarette, curtail my language and expect others to do the same when they are around her, compliment, carry what’s heavy… because I think she isn’t capable, believe that she is so fragile that her sensibilities would never recover from a personal affront, because I believe I am superior? Or do I do it to acknowledge her importance, to place myself second in her presence- Is my intention to try to make her way a little more comfortable in the world or is it to oppress?

For good or for bad, in mainstream society a Butch is rarely inconspicuous, and a Femme is noticed but rarely seen. As a Butch I will honour her, and do what I can to remove the cloak of invisibility, to allow her to be seen as the woman who is deserving of respect and admiration, to be seen as a Femme.

My observations of the world are that the B-F community is becoming one of the last bastions where chivalry still remains. For me, I am happy to be considered old fashioned if the alternative is, as I see around me, a solo dance with everyone on the floor vying for the spotlight.

Old school femme here, dropping in to say hello. It's late - I'll be back soon to chat with you fabulous OS folks.
Sweet Thoughts,
Ana

As with all of your posts, Converse, your point of view is refreshing and spot on. I believe you articulate what many others wish they could. Well written.

sj-fsu

i was at my Dominants' house recently, and They were getting read to go out. It was a dress up occasion. When it was time to leave, Sir held the door for Ma'am. As She stepped through, She said, "How do i look?" Sir replied, "Lovely." It was just a moment, one like a dozen others that week, i am sure, but it caught my eye. It was beautiful.

i like our dynamic best when it is unstudied, when it is less performative, though that can be fun. But that moment when we recognize and appreciate one another -- it's so good.

Good evening. Thought I'd stop by and see what is going on.

OSB

Hello everyone....stopping in to listen and learn :)

Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

I can't speak for how others view Old School, but I will speak as to how I view my own behavior as Old School values pertain to me.

I bolded the part I have issues with your post. Because I open a door, I don't believe it perpetuates the view that women are weak. I do this for another Butches as well as my father or anyone that I respect and honor. I will graciously accept an open door from anyone whether they be Butch or Femme. I am sure there are those that would balk at this.....Maybe I am a progressive Butch.

The things I do as an Old Schooler are purely based on how I respect and honor those around me. I would hope that it is the same for others. All of my values and how I move in this world, I would hope, would never be interpreted for another being weak, silly or any less of a person.

OS Butch, I wasn't in any way meaning to imply that you or anyone who opens doors, etc., thinks a femme is weak. In fact, I was agreeing with you.

I said,

"The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang."

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I think we see eye to eye, if I understand you correctly.

I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I suppose it was my blinders were on too tight.

Over the years I have been ridiculed for being Old School. Old School is sometimes so misunderstood and in fact I don't believe it is Old Fashioned at all, it is the way it should be the way people treat people.

It always amazes when when I am on a subway or bus and there is an elderly, pregnant woman or a handicapped person standing, that people would let them stand rather than give up their seat. I can just feel the stares when I do give up my seat. But that probably is more because I am a Butch, not because of the courteous action.

I agree--I do the same thing. The stares are probably because you were considerate enough to think of it, and they weren't.

Lynn, After misunderstanding, I reread your post. I red lettered a portion.

Why? What is it about Old School that would keep folks from participating?

I really don't think I am any different than any other Butch, though it has been pointed out to me that there is a lack of general manners.

With manners on my mind, I would like to know, what manners seem to be lacking in the Butches from the Femmes' point of view. What are the top 3 things a Femme wants to see when going out on a first date?