There's a great book entitled, Everything I Want to Do is Illegal. The HOAs have, in their infinite wisdom, made everything from hanging up clothes on a line to growing vegetables in your front yard a crime. This must and will change.

I appreciate you've got limited choices, Drew. I've had no car and taken two hour and half bus rides to work. I've slept on an old mattress on a floor with one sheet. I've gotten down to two cans of food in the cupboard, and I've had no place to live.

Obviously, when I was bouncing between a friend's couch and a vacant house and a friend's basement, I wasn't thinking about living off the grid or participating in a CSA. But the moment I had a rental contract and a place to stay, I was planting.

These times reinforced for me the idea of frugality and the value of "repurposing" of things. But I first learned to save and reuse from my mother who survived the Great Depression at least in part because she and the aunts she lived with were eating from their garden.

It might not be easy, however I believe we can do anything we really want to do. Instead of being forced to do it, having no choice, choose to do it and be prepared.

I spent most of my childhood, a poor girl in the ghetto, people telling me I can't do this and that. Thank Goddess I didnt believe them.

There is always a way. You have to want it bad enough. I believe you do or you wouldnt be here.

this is exactly what you should be doing. We have moved away from hands on community models and we need to return. Network, devise a small team not only for help but moral and emotional support.

As Blade said "This is where folks learn to take care of one another."

what a very beautiful thing. When was the last time someone took care of you?



and Blade- of course I save my poops! silly boy!

I could not live in a HOA environment, however the times I considered creating some type of community out here I wondered how we'd approach this without so many rules. In order for people to live together collectively you must have some kind of guide. For instant I may not favor having a bunch of old cars close to my place or a lot of noise.

But I do think they take it too far when they deny someone's right to garden food. If a community like this doesnt suit your needs then find one that does.

FYI- I have a bunch of cheap shop light fixtures and those plant and aquarium bulbs. I have been successful growing all kinds of greens, bok choy, lettuce, etc in my basement. I might try growing tomatoes with them this year and hand pollinate the flowers. (its easy btw). It all depends if I get help soon or not. I need full time live in help. In fact I'm building my micro community.

Back on topic- you can get free 5 gallon buckets which make excellent grow containers. Let us get you hooked. If you have a small amount of money for some kind of lighting, I will personally ship you the seeds. Try one small edible plant and expand from there.

Look at your overhead verses your income. Even if you have a low income are there ways you can save money and work towards sustainability?

For instance-

don't use paper towels, ziplock bags, etc. Use dish towels, containers.

Plan your trips to the store. Make a list ahead of what you need and go once a week.

Check your local farmers market and see if they offer coupons for disabled, retired, unemployed. Most do.

Check local farms and see if you can work out a labor trade program. Perhaps you can pull weeds, organize, clean, something? In exchange for fresh organic produce. Perhaps it only once a week and maybe you even have to take a bus but can you think of a better way to spend your day? You not only help the grass roots efforts but you help yourself. Don't waste their time. If you make a commitment stick to it. Contact them, offer to clean, do whatever they need in exchange of a box of produce of equal value.

Team up with a few friends to share meals or trade meals. Sit down, decide on a menu and health plan. When you cook there's always enough for a few meals. Make a budget with your team and share the expense and labor. Better yet sit down and share a meal or two per week.

Turn off lights, use supplemental heat when you can and heat the areas you are in. I stopped using central heat here at the farm and invested in infrared heater. I only turn them on when we need them and they are also in the dog areas set at 60 degrees. My electric bill has dropped a few hundred just doing this. I have a lot of power use because I work at home and my business (dog boarding) is at home.

Go to store offering bulk buys without packaging. Many of the health food stores offer this. You can also team up with a few local friends and purchase from bulkfoods.com they have lots of conventional and organic items.

Buy things on sale. Look online and see what stores carry organic things such as soups, beans, etc. things you can easily fix and also that store up to 2 years or longer. Check dates, buy extra on sale and begin your own stock pile.

Eat less- its amazing how much money we spend on food that will kill us.

If you are on disability consider moving to an area where the cost of living is a little cheaper and where you have good access to things. You have a wonderful resource here- get a few roommates also on disability, find affordable housing and share expenses.

more coming

I don't think anyone is trying to offend or deny that some people have additional challenges to consider. I believe we confront them and find solutions. We also need to be sensitive to things we don't understand.

Atom I think you are exactly where you need to be. Your parents are your family and need you. There are things you can learn to help your family. Stop looking at the "can't do's" and focus on what you "can do". It won't hurt to learn and be prepared to protect you and your family. You don't need a lot of money to do this.

For those of us who have not prepared at all and are reasonably healthy if/when SHTF, and really do not know anyone close by, please, at least have a bike, some munchies, a bag of your important things like meds, water, etc., and a hand gun with at least 200 rounds of ammo so you can have a chance to bug out to another town for supplies. Also, I'd like to personally thank Sachita again for offering up her land to our community. Farmland here in the midwest, has risen to nearly $6000 an acre.

I'd like us to take a few minutes to look around us. There are people all around us who need help. This is so important. I'm big on paying forward. As I said in the OWS thread, those of us that can, SHOULD.

The people needing help, may not know how to ask for help. They do not have white handkerchiefs tied to their front door. They are suffering in silence. Something as little as a ride to the grocery store (this is the first of the month, and food stamps get recharged) can be huge to a person who is feeling defeated and doesn't have a car. If you can afford $1.50, buy them a cup a coffee at the grocery store and shop with them. It will make them feel human. Too often we take time spent with people, for granted. This simple thing could very well make some ones day. That same person, I save my coupons for. I also recycle my newspaper to them. Yes, I can read it on line....but I keep the newspaper delivery person working (and I can afford the newspaper @ the $1.00 a week special I got it for) it pays for itself in the coupons. It then goes to my neighbor, who is a vietnam vet and is on a portable 02 tank. It helps him pass his day.(reading the paper, doing the crossword puzzle and the sudoku) He hand rolls the news papers into small logs and passes them on to a buddy :confused:...

This is a time when we have to pull together as a community, as neighbors. We have to reach out. Singles moms...do you realize how much you could help if you could buy some notebooks for the kids? Something we make a habit of doing, when we go to these professional outreach programs and they are giving away promotional pencils and pens (sometimes tablets) we put them in a designated spot, and we give them to a mom with a couple of kids every little bit helps.
How sad is it to be a kid and not have a pencil...or not have paper...(heartbreaking). This is something we always do. We buy pet food every time we grocery shop (treats too) what ever is on sale. We donate it to food drives. Familys hard on their luck, have pets...and it's extremely heartbreaking when your life is falling apart, to have to give up your pet because you can't buy it food. A $3.00/ 6 pak of canned food or bagged food isn't going to break us....and it's nice to give a big bagful of pet food to a food drive.

I took 14 computer paper boxes of books I had no use for (i mean really, NO USE FOR) to half priced books.....and they gave me $72.00 for them. I went to TARGET, asked to see the pet dept manager (that isn't what they called him, but that worked) told him I was spending all my money on cat food for animal friends .....they had a request out for food. (I had the article in my pocket) He gave me two bags that
were sliced open and I bought 7, eighteen pound bags of meow mix that was on sale, and target gave them to me tax free because it was for a non profit and I was donating......see why I love TARGET!!!

Again, we have to always (if we can) pay forward. all around us people need help. It's not hard to help. It's not hard to be nice. It's very rewarding. These are desperate times for some people! (don't forget about our little animals too)

a bag of munchies and 200 rounds of ammo? lol thats funny. You can shoot your food or yourself if you get too hungry? lol

I have a few bins packed with stuff but you can pack a back-pack in the event you need to leave quickly. If you live in the city no doubt you'll have to leave.

But lets get back on topic as far as how you'll survive is the government stopped sending out money and large corporations closed down forced us into a mega recession. How can you live cheap, safe and sustain in the worse of times. Being prepared is important and I also think while you figure out a plan how to grow or get food and water, perhaps start stock piling what you can. Remember when the price of rice jumped really high? This could happen with everything. Especially the more big companies control our food sources. having enough food and water to survive should be on everyone's list. Even if you take an extra 5.00 a week, start now buying a few extra can's or a bag of rice and store it.

I do have a backpack of freeze dried food, blankets, wind up flashlights and wind up radio with cell phone charger.

If you live in urban areas where you are solely dependent on public works such as sewage, water, etc. you should definitely have a back up plan. Know how you would leave if you needed to. Know what your next move might be. I know its hard but it's important to be prepared. Not just for disasters but devastating economic times. Have a food supply of some degree to at least hold you over until you figure something out. Learn some skills - how to start a fire (or buy something that will help you start a fire in wet and wind), how to create shelter, get safe water.

If you are able you begin to make a plan to live some place safer, maybe towards the country where you can at least garden, fish, forage for food. Imagine living like you did back in the old days when they didnt have electric, running water and walmart. I'm not saying you must live this way now but if you are able to live rural now would be the time to start planning to do so.

this is for you Blade

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...31264691_n.jpg

Crude Awakening
 

There's a gentleman in my community who has made it his mission to tell anyone he meets about Peak Oil. If you aren't aware of the term, the theory and the period we are in and about to enter, familiarize yourself please.

There is a movement called "Transition Towns" that is based on the idea that the easy, cheap oil has largely been found and the idea of transporting things from great distances at a hefty environmental cost (if not yet an economic one) is unsustainable.

Here are a couple videos and links on Peak Oil and the Transition Towns movement:

Peak oil = yes.
Plus, the internal combustion engine was a bad idea when it was developed almost 200 years ago. I hope the stirling engine gets a more thorough investigation, it is an intriguing technology.

Here's a tip for your survival kit, from a builder:
Start stockpiling nails - all sizes, especially big galvanized ones. They are metal, which will always have value, they are great for structural applications. Nails can be hit with anything heavier than the nail. Screws are much less valuable, they break, the heads strip, they rust. Without power, you'd hurt your wrist and elbow driving them, that is if you have a screwdriver.
Just sayin'.

I agree with you 100%. People would have privacy in separate sleeping dwellings and maybe communal meeting and eating areas. And work could could possibly be each according to his/her ability. Each according to need. Socialist/Kibbutz ideology. I've lived it before and it works really well if thats the lifestyle one is comfortable with.

Hitting the nail on the head
 

And if for no other reason than for the pleasure of stepping on boards with nails. Ha!!!

Actually, I'm about to head to the gym and then head back to a pile of curbside boards that I started scavenging yesterday. Many are 2 x 4s with nails in them but still entirely usable.

That was the plan for my farm. You share the work and the wealth and draw upon people's strengths. Intentional communities are happening, and I think we may see more and more of them.

Seriously, if you can ever pull this together, or need help doing it, please let me know. It is something I have seriously been thinking about for many many years.

You've really made me smile tonight. Thank you, and I certainly will. :-)

you can start here! seriously. I have everything in place except dwellings. Greenhouse, barn, pastures, lots of fruit and nut trees, hens, coops, what else?

I have a huge chunk of land. You guys are more then welcome to put tiny houses or rv's here. Much of the land is already cleared and I have a large creek.

The great part about southern virginia is its not too awful cold or hot. There are long seasons for growing and with a greenhouse you can extend that even longer. I am one hour to the Blue Ridge Mountians

I like this one but would have wood siding put on. I like the windows.

http://www.capitolsheds.com/sunroom1...rcoal-pch.html


I have a shed from this company:

http://www.leonardusa.com/browse.cfm/2,8.html

The sheds are made like houses and you can get any size, any style, with or without porch, lofts, etc. Obviously it effects the price. I would be more inclined to buy a simple shell and add the features as I go. For instance to install an upgraded window they may charge 3 times more then you waiting and installing new windows later. A deck is nice but you can probably get someone to build it later, cheaper or do it yourself.

I have another 10 X 26 (I think) out there that I paid 7000.00 for. I converted it into a dog kennel, however its huge and could easily be a cabin.

Most shed companies so rent to own so in 5-6 years you own it. If you have a business this really works out because storage sheds are deductible. My new building is only 10 X 15 but I pay 176.00 a month. It has two small lofts I use to store feed but they could have been made larger and especially with a deeper pitched roof.

I'm going to guess that adding walls, electric, floor, plumbing (not septic and well) could be about 4-7K. It depends how fancy you want to get. It could be as low as 2K with a simple set of walls and a compact kitchen
http://www.compactappliance.com/CK30..._Kitchen_Units

The compact kitchens can get pretty fancy and expensive. they've become popular with the smaller living movement.


As for well, septic and electric it would be better if a few people got together and got a permit to handle one well and one septic. I have a 20 X 30 barn I might convert into a community center. I would need to put in floor, walls, plumbing, fix electric & would like to put internet, showers, potties, cooking area, etc.

I wish I could go there now, Sachita!
Its great that you are making this opportunity available.
Thanks. Even if we can't go, it is valuable to keep our imaginations open to possibilities like this.

I've always offered it, however as you know it's a scary leap for people to go rural this way. A lot of people dream about it, talk about it and want to but they don't for some reason. I know quite a few people who bought land with lots of dreams to do a community, offer classes, etc. Once into it they realize its tough to depend on other people.

But I'm forging forward regardless. I've accomplished a lot and I have the feeling the right people will surface. I'm working on extra living space now.

lol- also I think I'm holding out for the "right" people. (wink) Maybe a nice collection of 4-6 somewhat kinky folks or at least kink friendly folks. You never know what I'll be doing outside and I wouldn't want to offend anyone. lol

Given this week's news about the biggest jump ever in greenhouse emissions, you may see folks sooner than later.

What's your water source/s? And what's your elevation?

I am 500 ft, however I also have a location scouted that is several 1000.

They seriously need to address the emissions problem worldwide. Do you have a link to the news?

I have a large creek that flows along the whole back side and a stopped up spring. It has rock steps that must be 100 plus years old where someone probably use to fetch water. It has dribbled and created a bog. It just needs to be cleaned out, dug some. I have a well but I'd like to get a hand pump.

Stuff like this freaks me out

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/qu...lose-call.html

I mean come on... do we really think the government is going to tell us that it could hit? They wouldn't even if they could predict its general location. If it was to hit it would spawn huge trouble.

What I like about living tiny and simple is being somewhat nomadic. (I Know Stacy loves that!) so that you are able to move where you need and set up homestead. You could actually buy utility trailers and convert or used RV's but the biggest problem will be storage and taking things with you. I might be a large horse trailer.

Biggest jump ever seen in global warming gases
 

I put this in the breaking news thread as well. I knew inherently that the "worst case scenarios" were grossly underestimated.


http://news.yahoo.com/biggest-jump-e...183955211.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — The global output of heat-trapping carbon dioxide jumped by the biggest amount on record, the U.S. Department of Energy calculated, a sign of how feeble the world's efforts are at slowing man-made global warming.

The new figures for 2010 mean that levels of greenhouse gases are higher than the worst case scenario outlined by climate experts just four years ago.

"The more we talk about the need to control emissions, the more they are growing," said John Reilly, co-director of MIT's Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change.

The world pumped about 564 million more tons (512 million metric tons) of carbon into the air in 2010 than it did in 2009. That's an increase of 6 percent. That amount of extra pollution eclipses the individual emissions of all but three countries — China, the United States and India, the world's top producers of greenhouse gases.

It is a "monster" increase that is unheard of, said Gregg Marland, a professor of geology at Appalachian State University, who has helped calculate Department of Energy figures in the past.

Extra pollution in China and the U.S. account for more than half the increase in emissions last year, Marland said.

"It's a big jump," said Tom Boden, director of the Energy Department's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center at Oak Ridge National Lab. "From an emissions standpoint, the global financial crisis seems to be over."

Boden said that in 2010 people were traveling, and manufacturing was back up worldwide, spurring the use of fossil fuels, the chief contributor of man-made climate change.

India and China are huge users of coal. Burning coal is the biggest carbon source worldwide and emissions from that jumped nearly 8 percent in 2010.

"The good news is that these economies are growing rapidly so everyone ought to be for that, right?" Reilly said Thursday. "Broader economic improvements in poor countries has been bringing living improvements to people. Doing it with increasing reliance on coal is imperiling the world."

In 2007, when the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued its last large report on global warming, it used different scenarios for carbon dioxide pollution and said the rate of warming would be based on the rate of pollution. Boden said the latest figures put global emissions higher than the worst case projections from the climate panel. Those forecast global temperatures rising between 4 and 11 degrees Fahrenheit by the end of the century with the best estimate at 7.5 degrees.

Even though global warming skeptics have attacked the climate change panel as being too alarmist, scientists have generally found their predictions too conservative, Reilly said. He said his university worked on emissions scenarios, their likelihood, and what would happen. The IPCC's worst case scenario was only about in the middle of what MIT calculated are likely scenarios.

Chris Field of Stanford University, head of one of the IPCC's working groups, said the panel's emissions scenarios are intended to be more accurate in the long term and are less so in earlier years. He said the question now among scientists is whether the future is the panel's worst case scenario "or something more extreme."

"Really dismaying," Granger Morgan, head of the engineering and public policy department at Carnegie Mellon University, said of the new figures. "We are building up a horrible legacy for our children and grandchildren."

But Reilly and University of Victoria climate scientist Andrew Weaver found something good in recent emissions figures. The developed countries that ratified the 1997 Kyoto Protocol greenhouse gas limiting treaty have reduced their emissions overall since then and have achieved their goals of cutting emissions to about 8 percent below 1990 levels. The U.S. did not ratify the agreement.

In 1990, developed countries produced about 60 percent of the world's greenhouse gases, now it's probably less than 50 percent, Reilly said.

"We really need to get the developing world because if we don't, the problem is going to be running away from us," Weaver said. "And the problem is pretty close from running away from us."

Sounds great!

What zone are you in? The permaculture people I studied with believe that the zone we are in will change, maybe even 2 zones in the next 10 years. Good to consider when planting trees.

I'm interested in water management with earthworks, but I'm not sure the little stirling engine tractor I will build will be able to bulldoze much...

I'm in zone 7.

I have lots of fruit and nut trees. Some have been here hundreds of years. I have cherry, apple, pear, plum, fig, goji berry, walnut, pecan, chestnut and I also have grapes and berries. Even if the zone changed I be ok.

The zones have already changed, and we're adding on weeks to the growing season.

This animation details my area's migration from 5 to 6:

http://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

Here's another good source -

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=9243405

Hardiness Zone Map Changed
 

From -
http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-new...-your-backyard

23 March 2009
USDA revises its plant hardiness map, bringing climate change down to earth for millions of households across the country.

By Jennifer Weeks
for the Daily Climate

As winter retreats northward across the nation, gardeners are cleaning tools and turning attention to spring planting. But climate change is adding a new wrinkle, and now a standard reference – the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Plant Hardiness Zone Map – is about to make very clear how much rising temperatures have shifted planting zones northward.
Hopefully the new map will clear up a lot of confusion about what’s happening to the climate.

- Charlie Nardozzi, National Gardening Association.

The guide, last updated in 1990, shows where various species can be expected to thrive. A revision is expected sometime this year, and while the agency hasn’t released details, horticulturalists and experts who have helped with the revision expect the new map to extend plants’ northern ranges and paint a sharp picture of the continent’s gradual warming over the past few decades. The new version will have a wide audience: the National Gardening Association estimates 82 million U.S. households do some form of gardening, a number expected to increase as more Americans plant vegetable gardens to cut food costs.

USDAmap-450“Anyone involved with gardening, especially with perennials, uses the map to pick the right plants for their location,” says NGA horticulturist Charlie Nardozzi. “Shifting hardiness zones are a very tangible result of climate change, and people will see that change happening where they live over a short period of time.”

Familiar to anyone who has paged through a nursery catalogue, the USDA hardiness map divides North America into 11 latitudinal zones, each representing a 10ºF range of “average annual minimum temperature” - the coldest lows that can be expected in that area. Zones 2 through 10 are each subdivided into two sections - “a” and “b” - that represent 5ºF ranges. Zone 11 (southern Mexico and much of Hawaii) is tropical, with winter lows above 40ºF.

Reclassifying a gardener’s yard into a warmer area opens new options for planting flowers and shrubs that would probably not have survived local winters in the 1970s or 1980s. And the visual impact of a map, with inevitable comparisons to the 1990 version, is likely to make even non-gardeners ask what it means to live in zone 7 instead of 6.

By injecting climate change into one of America’s favorite pastimes, the revised USDA map could become an important public education tool. “Hopefully the new map will clear up a lot of confusion about what’s happening to the climate,” said Nardozzi.

* * *

USDA climate zones are based on measurements from the Commerce Department’s National Climatic Data Center, plus national sources in Canada and Mexico. Every ten years the data center calculates new U.S. “climate normals,” or 30-year average values, for meteorological elements such as temperature, precipitation, and heating and cooling degree days for thousands of U.S. weather stations.

group-500Station locations change and methods evolve, so the climate data center warns that comparing normals between different 30-year periods may lead to “erroneous conclusions” about climate change. Nonetheless, the center released an image in 2003 showing the difference between average minimum winter temperatures throughout the United States for 1961-1990 and 1971-2000. In nearly every part of the continental United States winter lows were warmer during the second period, rising as much as 2.5ºF in parts of the Rockies, the northern Great Plains, and central and southern California.

USDA is not describing what the new map will show, but outside experts say that the trend is for zones to shift northward. “Some places have definitely warmed, although others haven’t changed at all,” says Tony Avent, owner of North Carolina-based Plant Delights Nursery and an advisor for the revision.

They also describe the new map as much more sophisticated than the 1990 version, which was based on a data set covering only 13 years (1974 through 1986 for the U.S.). The revised map draws on 30 years of data and uses a complex algorithm to factor in other variables that affect local temperatures, such as altitude and the presence of water bodies.

“All we could really do earlier was draw a straight line between data points, but now we’re trying to input a lot of other information,” says USDA spokeswoman Kim Kaplan. “We’ll pick up more heat islands and cold zones, and the edges of zones will be defined more clearly.”
We always try to test the limits. All gardeners are in zone denial.

- Michael Dosmann, Harvard University’s Arnold Arboretum

The new map is being developed by Oregon State University’s PRISM Group, a team of modelers that also produces climate maps for other state and federal agencies. Unlike past versions, the 2009 map will be GIS-compatible, storing and linking layers of information in a digital version that can be read with widely available GIS (geographic information system) viewing programs. It will have a resolution of 800 square meters, so users will be able to zoom in on their home towns or zip codes and see where they lie within zones.

USDA commissioned the revision after a flap in 2003, when the American Horticultural Society released a draft update based on 16 years of temperature data. USDA had funded the project but rejected the update, which was configured differently and showed significant warming over the 1990 version, with many parts of the nation shifted into warmer climate zones. (The Arbor Day Foundation displays a modified version of the rejected map on its web site, along with an animation that shows the foundation’s estimate of warming since 1990.)

Some observers suggested that the Bush administration pulled the map because it showed the nation warming, but Kaplan calls that idea an urban myth. “There was no memo from the White House,” she says. “The draft was rejected because it wasn’t web-friendly and wasn’t layered in a standard GIS format. The data were never reviewed – formatting and technology issues got it bounced.”

Both the 1990 map and the aborted 2003 version are unreliable because they use too little data to show lasting trends, Avent contends. “The first time they got a cold data set and the second time they got a warm data set,” he says.

Avent points to Chicago, which lies on zone 5b on the 1990 map but shifted into zone 6 on the 2003 draft. “In 2004 Chicago had a -21º winter, “Avent said. “If Chicago gardeners had planted zone 6 plants, they would all have failed. When plants die customers give up gardening, and that’s the nursery business’s worst nightmare.”

Michael Dosmann, curator of living collections at Harvard University’s Arnold Arboretum in Boston and an advisor on the USDA revision, expects that the new map will be much more credible than either the AHS version or the current 1990 map. “I think we can have a lot of faith in it. The data set is very robust, and the modelers have done an amazing job,” says Dosmann. (Arnold Arboretum horticulturists produced early climate zone maps from the 1930s through the 1960s.) Like Avent, he predicts that the new map will show “some zone creep, but not the extremes in the Arbor Day map.”

* * *

Although it’s significant when hardiness zones shift, gardening experts emphasize that they are guidelines, not blueprints. “The map minimizes people’s odds of planting things that are likely to fail,” says Avent. For example, calla lilies are hardy in zones 8 to 10, so there’s not much point in planting them in Minneapolis, which lies in zone 4a..

harvest-350But there’s no guarantee that a plant rated hardy for zone 4 will actually thrive in Minnesota backyards. Every garden contains microclimates that influence what can grow there. Fragile plants may thrive in sunny protected corners, even if exposed areas of the same yard are ten degrees (i.e., a full climate zone) colder.

“To help plants succeed, you have to understand how they grow and site them carefully,” says Dosmann. “Plants can’t read the map, and they don’t always respect our zones.” Dosmann and his colleagues study the Arnold Arboretum’s microclimates intensively and try to work with them – for example, by planting less-hardy plants on warm south-facing slopes.

Once gardeners know what’s possible in their own flower beds, they can start to push the envelope. Boston lies in zone 6, but the Arboretum constantly tests species that are adapted to warmer areas, such as some hardy types of camellias. It does so not in response to climate change but as part of its mission to keep adding new plants to its collection.

“We always try to test the limits,” says Dosmann. “All gardeners are in zone denial.”

500' is good; 1000' is better.

Do you know if you have springs? And did you say you have Bobcat or any digger?

I wish I could say that I'm surprised, but I'm totally not. *sigh*

yes I have springs but no heavy equipment other then my vibrator. lol kidding

I can rent equipment

Good one! I love it. That made me laugh...

You might want to create swale plumes, sillways and ponds beyond what you have. Anything to slow down the flow of water and retain it for harvesting:





I worked a deal with the company that created a two-acre horse fence for my farm in Maryland. They really cut the price of the fence in exchange for me letting them keep their equipment on my land over a season. Someone might work a similar deal with you in exchange for digging out some ponds and swales.