oops! me too.

Apocalipstic, I didn't say only FTMs could post in this thread. I was talking about the topic, not the requirements for posting in the thread.

I thought you brought up a very valid point, about definitions. I have learned to ask what someone means when they use the word transgender, because it does mean different things to different folks.

I tried to be very clear with my original post, that I was talking about the topic and not those posting.

I am sorry that HowSoonIsNow and Apocalipstic misunderstood.

So sorry, I wondered about posting in a Trans thread anyway, so just assumed I should not have been.

Either way great thread! :)

I am glad you clarified that Liam. When I first read the post I thought that's what you meant as well. I think it's very important to have these kinds of conversations in threads. If someone has questions and they come in and ask it in a respectful manner it can really be conductive to a better understanding of one another. All should be welcome to participate.

Thanks for attempting to offer more clarification. All of this is very interesting stuff. I guess perhaps this discussion should go into another thread. ( I do not believe that all posts should be specific to the initial post starting the thread. But not all feel this way.)

I think the notion that perhaps some of your thinking could be related to some transphobic stuff is a very brave statement to make. Yet, shows you are open to thinking, exploring, learning, relearning. Thanks.

I find it interesting to see a thread that is about the courage not to transition, when in my own personal circumstance, I choose not to based on apprehension. My main worry being the impact on my career, which is a very high visibility job in the state where I live. A state, I may add, that is not exactly seen as cutting edge for gender expression/gay rights/queer rights.

Professionally, I use my female name. In the rest of my life, I go by Jake. I've lived in this skin, or sometimes this bubble, my entire life. I'm used to it. I know the landscape of my life better than anyone. I've been inconvenienced because of how I choose to live, but what is more important to me is that I made my choice for me.

And I think everyone in this community -- queer, trans, butch, femme -- is brave. In my opinion, some of the bravest people in this community are the femmes who stand alongside us, and in those lucky cases, who love us. As we are. As we choose to be. As we evolve. As we traverse the landscape of gender fluidity. They are the members of this community who have my utmost respect. And I also respect anyone who lives their life on their terms, according to their own code.

Jake

In the oneness of allness, I am, in some degree or aspect, guilty of, or infected with, or suffering from, everything that I attack." (Charles Fort)

I was on a low dose T for 7 months, then 5 months on the full dose. I found I couldn't handle some of the changes my body was going through, so I had to stop. My voice dropped some, I have had top surgery and a full hysterectomy, however I am still read as female. I have accepted that this is as far as I will go with my transition. I like my body a lot more now, even though it is imperfect in many ways. I wish I could have gone further with the T, but it's just not in the cards for me. I am at peace with it and the fact that I will always wear my queer card on my sleeve.

This is my first post here. Been reading all of your insights into the intricacies of being transgendered as well as butch, femme and every combination thereof. This thread speaks to me as I am in the process of deciding whether to transition or not. I've been in a lesbian relationship for the past 15 years and my partner is not at all happy with the idea of me transitioning and, while she says she is supportive of me being tg, she has also made it clear that she is not willing to stay with me if I decide to transition. I just turned 50, we have a beautiful life together and I have much to lose if I transition. I struggle every day with what to do. I did go on a low dose of androgel about 6 months ago to see if I felt any better..since I'm menopausal and it actually does help with energy and muscle retension among other things in menopausal women. So far, I think the benefits of taking the T have been helpful. I've lived in this skin for 50 years and, while I would really like to make changes to my body to align it more with who I feel I am inside, I just don't know if I really want to go about redefining who I am at this point and potentially lose a lot of what I've worked for most of my life. I'd appreciate hearing other people's stories on how they came to the decision to transition or not to transition.

Maverick, I do understand, at least a bit, the struggle that you are going thru. I chose to transition, but I also have friends that chose not to transition for reasons similar to yours. Maybe part of the reason that I chose to transition is that I had little left, in my life, to hold me into living in the male role, I don't know for sure.
We each have to find the balance of what works for us, and sometimes, the balance changes later on down the road. Nor is there anything wrong with that.
For me, things came to the point where it was either transition or cease living. I couldn't deal with things any longer, it seemed like. Since I started transition, I'm a lot happier overall, but it doesn't always work out that way. I've been lucky, in a lot of ways.
One thing that might help you sort things out is to talk to a therapist that is experienced in dealing with transgendered people and transitioning. They can help you find the insights that you need to be able to make decisions that are right for you.
There are no absolutely right or wrong answers in this, only the answer that works for you. Sometime those answers change, over time.

Thanks Nadeest and Corkey for you insights. I agree with both of you about counseling. I was seeing a gender therapist for a while on my own but it wasn't a good fit for me so I will be finding a new one soon. I think my partner would benefit from visiting with them also, though she is extremely reluctant to even talk about the subject with me let alone a stranger. There's a lot of anger there for her. I won't bore you with the details of all that. Let's just say that 15 years creates a lot of water under the bridge. Anyway, I'm in the process of trying to figure out what partial transition would look like for me. I feel predominantly male inside yet I don't feel like either a "man" or a "woman" and can't really see myself transitioning to the point of living as a man. This could all change at some point but that's where I am sitting right now. I'm intrigued by butch/femme relationships as my partner and I somewhat have that now, though it's unspoken and unplanned...meaning, I'm not sure either of us have thought a great deal about how we would categorize ourselves or our relationship. As I've gotten older and care less about societal pressures to conform I have evolved into more of a butch person. At this point I really want to change my first name to a gender neutral first and middle name that I can live with and I'm contemplating some form of chest surgery. These two changes would definitely put me more into a gender neutral place (i.e. confusing to other people lol) in the world and it will be interesting to see how that will feel to me.

Honestly, Maverick, I can see where your partner might have a great deal of anger about this matter. She chose to be with you, perceiving you to be one person, and now, you are showing her another part of yourself that she, and possibly even you, may not have been aware of, until now.
Often, in our transition, and enjoying our newfound freedom to express ourselves more fully and honestly, then we have before, we forget about the other people in our lives, and how this affects them. They often have had certain expectations of us, that are now completely destroyed. They may not have been aware of this part of ourselves, as well.
Feelings of betrayal can come into play, as well. 'How dare we have concealed this part of ourselves from them?' That can come into play, whether or not we have known of this part of ourselves consciously, or had concealed it deep within ourself, to the point where we didn't consciously know about it.
Do remember too, that she has a right to process this information at her own pace, and decide how to handle it. We get to do that, why shouldn't the other people in our lives?

Maverick, I think it is great that you are open to and accepting of the fact that a person transitioning can create loss for their partner and that this is a transition for them, also.

In my practice with trans people, I often request the partner come into a session, even if the person says their partner is "fine with it". Although the partner is not my identified client, this change effects the couple (in good and bad ways), which effects my client. It is also just simply useful for the partner of a trans person who is uncomfortable with the transition to see that the therapist of the trans person is empathetic towards their experience. It makes sense that the struggling partner of a trans person would fear that the trans person's therapist would judge them negatively for not being super positive about the person's transition. It is also helpful for the client to see that it is normal that their partner may be struggling with this change.

Maverick, if you don't have any names of therapists who work with trans people, consider using www.wpath.org to find a therapist.

Here is another place to find a therapist specilizing in work with FTMs: http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/Therapists.html

Here is another place you can find a trans therapist, but I believe that most of the therapists here specialize working with MTFs (Nadeest, do you happen to know if this is accurate or not?):

http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your input here. You're all right about the counseling and me needing to be patient with my partner. Like I said in a previous post, I was seeing a gender therapist for about 4 months last summer and I stopped seeing her because of exactly the reasons you all mentioned. She made ME feel like she wasn't empathetic to my partner's struggles and I felt like she was pushing me in directions to transition before I was ready to go there. Obviously, it was a bad fit for me. I will be finding a new therapist very soon who is more willing to listen to me and isn't so rigid in their beliefs. I think from everyone's posts that is the place to start at this point. Thanks again.
Mav

Badass thread!

I am one of these people. I have shared pieces of my story through different posts on this site. Basically, I have literally wanted to be male since I was two. My realization of being gay was significantly overshadowed by gender dysphoria. I didn't feel like a gay woman because I felt like a straight man.

I told everyone that I would "get a sex change as soon as possible." I saw a therapist when I was 19 who gave me a letter to start male hormones. I didn't go through with it.

Why? Well, I was raised in a rural environment. There was a strict gender binary. I strongly identified with leading men in movies, felt deeply disconnected from everything feminine, and thought about having a cock during my first sexual fantasy at twelve. I knew I sure as hell wasn't female, so I figured I had to be male.

I moved to DC when I was 19 and met a few gender variant folks who led successful lives. I also realized that top surgery would be costly and bottom surgery would be impossible. I didn't want to be a man without a dick. I didn't want to have to tell all my partners that I was born female. I hated the idea that I might have to wait years before I could be legally recognized for who I was.

I felt this option was not feasible and decided to embrace being transgendered but not transsexual and genderqueer. If I could fuck like a man and express my masculinity in my physical appearance without transitioning, maybe that was enough.

I got involved with various queer communities after that, trying to find my niche. I was eager to meet people who would accept me. When I wanted to transition, I had no interest in immersing myself in queer culture because I wanted to put the idea that I was born female behind me and get on with my life as a man.

I bind. I pack. I work out to build muscle and keep my body fat low - excess body fat increases estrogen production. I buy clothes that fit me properly. I get masculine haircuts. I am a little taller than the average female (between 5'7" and 5'8"), have a deep voice, broad shoulders, and very masculine mannerisms. I am read as male 75% of the time. I do not go out of my way to "pass" - I simply want to be comfortable with myself. Feigning extra masculinity to be more passable to society would be putting on a facade for me.

I call myself a guy/man/dude. Being called "Ma'am" rubs me the wrong way, but I can tolerate it. I feel like I was born into the wrong body, but I've grown to accept it. I have realized I am fine with what I have, even though society says I should transition. I personally see no point if I must be exposed for what I was born with every time I remove my underwear.

I legally changed my first and middle name to Alex Hunter, which is both gender neutral and masculine. People sometimes disregard the "F" on my driver's license because of the name.

The link to lauras-playground is probably a good one, and they do have a list of therapists there. How accurate that it is now, I have no idea. However, lauras-playground does/did have lots of ftms in their community, so I wouldn't be too certain that those therapists are mainly for mtfs. Also, here is another useful site, and list of therapists. It also have some VERY useful articles linked to it, on the webpages, and I do think that those articles often come in very useful, indeed, regardless of what gender transperson wrote them. Here is the link: http://http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html

Alex, if it works for you, that is all that counts. To my mind, there ain't no right or wrong way to do things, in this area; what counts is what works best for you.

Hey, Nadeest. Thanks for clarifying about Laura's playgroun.

Your link to Dr. Becky's site doesn't work. This one should : http://www.drbecky.com/birthcert.html

Yes, I think it is really important that a therapist stay conscious as to where their client is in moving towards medical transition. Additionally, I think that it is important that therapists at least make comment on the fact that some folks do not medically transition and that this does not make them any less than the gender they already are. Moreover, I think that we should present the idea that the gender binary is not the only way to look at things and that some believe there is more than two genders. I have met a number of folks who felt like they had to transition b/c they knew they were not their birth sex, so they MUST be the opposite sex. They appreciated the idea of thinking outside the box.

Anyway, I am preaching to the choir on this site, but Maverick's post got me thinking about what concerns me about some gender therapists (the gender binary concept). I will say I believe this way of thinking is less common than in the past in the gender therapist community.

I have been reading this thread and not quite able to break 'the ice' and jump in. but these words where like a sharp stick to my soul. There are so many things, which a trans person feels, ...that only another trans person can really understand.

I also grew up in the country, and the gender binary in drilled into who I am. Yet, there is a third gender in our culture too, the emasculated male. So in my 'being' if I can't make sperm -- I might as well be female.

(humor) ...and if I have to be a 'girl' I might as well be a hot one! LOL, thus I am B.I.D. = Butch In Drag, (laugh to keep from crying) :vigil: missing parts - not fun!

anyway... :jester:

I will say that the gender therapist that I went to is listed on all of the websites but I would NOT recommend her. She's definitely still working with old information and has not kept up on all of the various directions people are going in these days. Very much into the gender binary and not at all understanding of why someone might not want to transition if they are truly transgender.

I am sorry to hear that, Maverick. If you are still in contact with her, you might consider letting her know that there is a new version of the Standards of Care that was recently released. If she looks that up and reads it, I think that it is likely that she will learn a lot. For starters, it is a much longer document then before, and has a lot of information inside of it. This might be the impetus that will get her to start thinking, and gathering more information, so she can better help her clients.

Good point. This may be another reason as to why you (Maverick), might want to see if there is a therapist in your area that is a member of WPATH. Those therapists adhere to the SOC and are up to date.

On the other trans sites (forums for trans people) that I am aware of, therapists names are listed for two reasons. Either a member of the site puts their name on the list (which is a good), or the therapist comes onto the site saying they want to list their name. Unfortunately, there is no way to "check" the therapists out as having additional training in trans issues. Anybody can put their name on the list.

However, I would feel confident that the therapists at WPATH have more of an investment in learning and being up to date with training. It costs $200 per year for a therapist/physician to be a member and then an additional $25 to have your name listed. It makes sense to me that people wouldn't put that money out unless they were commited to getting what they need to stay ahead of the curve in the field.

With that said, of course just like any other speciality there are going to be therapists whose style/personality just doesn't fit you. Plus, having a lot of knowledge doesn't mean you are necessarily good at this work. If you have choices, check out more than one therapist. YOU are the consumer.

I hope things work out for you. If there is not a therapist in your area, some gender therapists will do skype, especially for the rural areas.

I am so pleased to have come across this thread.

My partner and I have discussed this in length. Although I identify as male, I am pre-op and pre-T. Top surgery is an option for me, however given my medical condition I am unable to have it done as an outpatient which means I will require hospitalization, which quadruples the cost. Therefore it is something I am working on but regrettably require a bit more time.

However, something that has made me stop and reconsider everything is the fact that I was told there was no possibility of me going on T. I researched information on the net and spoke at great lengths with my specialist who handles my health disorder and came up empty handed. Everything pointed to no. But about two weeks ago I reached out to the director of the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health in CA and presented my case. To my surprise, she consulted with her specialists and I was given the answer I had hoped for: it is possible for me to go on HRT.

I am trying not to jump and run with this, given the fact that I do want to research all their studies and discuss it with my own doctor and so on. If there is the slightest risk, I will prefer not to proceed. Which ultimately leaves me, in what I call, the grey zone.

I have a baby face - one that hasn't changed in years. I look very young and more of a boy than a man. Upon completion of my top surgery I will still feel as though I have not fully transitioned. I feel that I will forever be a 'boy' and never truly a man to the outside world. And let's face it, although it is most important that we feel comfortable in our bodies and identification - we do not live in a bubble. I am not blind to the fact that I do have to face the outside world every day, and therefore their view does ultimately effect me. Whether it be my safety or my comfort. I can handle the stares and whispers... but it is different when I'm out with my bonus children and they have to see it.

Being in this grey zone has been incredibly difficult for me. Things such as public restrooms - most of those who identify as butch or trans can relate to that. It isn't easy and I often wish that I could simply just go on T. My therapist has already granted me approval. She did so last year and in March I had made my appointment with the surgeon and endocrinologist. But when everything was brought to a halt, I felt like a huge blow had been dealt to the center of my chest.

Being different is not easy, by any means. Whether you are butch, trans, male identified or female identified. We live in a society that is not open to alternatives due to their conformity in binaries. And yeah we can boast about the comfort we have found within ourselves, which is part of our journey. But society's views can and often do cause some discomfort at some times.

So thank you, for having this thread available.

I wish you the very best on your journey.