I think for Cynthia Nixon it's her choice how she defines herself her experience and am annoyed by the anger she's received in response.

I realized it was not a choice for me a long time ago, though I enjoyed men in bed just fine. My heart was the issue, not my loins. Lucky for me, it turned out where my heart lead, my sex happily followed.

I think the waters are muddied by our lack of equality. I think many of us believe - and many straight people are only able to accept us if they believe - that we are born this way. Then being gay seems to have a stronger foothold against the people who would like to call our love abominable, unnatural and the like.

But there are flaws to convincing the world that we are here by nature and not by choice. Flaws like the fact it is seen as a defect. How many gay babies would be aborted if they figured out a way to tell we would be gay? Any subtle or not-so-subtle eugenics movement would weed us out if they could find the markers.

Maybe for some it's a choice and for some it's not. It's annoying to me she's been backlashed for stating what's true for her.

My personal belief is that being gay is not a choice for me. Before I was 10 I was attracted to girls, not boys. I took a circuitous route to coming out due to fear of admitting to myself what I really was and having the courage to say outloud that I was a lesbian.

Do I also agree with Kinsey and his identification of a continuum of 100% straight on one side of the scale and 100% homosexual on the other end of the scale-with many folks in between? Yes, of course.

As I read her comments, she specifically states that being gay, for her, is a choice. I can't prove or disprove that for her, as that is how she sees herself.

Does it concern me that the religious right and those that hate us, will seize on that comment as "proof" that we choose to be gay and could be straight if we only wanted to be?

Yes, that is my sole concern with her comments.

(Judge not, lest ye be judged-sorry my Lutheran upbringing just sprang to mind).

Vlasta, has a right to her opinion and has a right to feel the way she does about Bisexuals, albeit not a popular opinion today. Just 25 years ago it was a very popular feeling. Instead of blasting and attacking anyone who has a difference of opinion, it helps to be patient and maybe help them to better understand another positive side to something that they may not be aware of or have experienced first hand. People have a tendency to judge a person or a situation by their own experiences. If you have had a positive experience, SHARE IT!

It's amazing how much we see this all the time over the last decade in online discussions. When someone has a difference of opinion, instead of looking at it as a time to attack it could be used as a time to educate. If you don't want to educate in a patient manner then back away once you've said you disagree with them. Building bridges and widening roads. We don't get there by saying you have to walk down this narrow path with me and think and act and be just like me, right now in this moment, and you are not allowed to grow at your own pace, and if you can't keep up then GET OFF the road. I hate that way of thinking more than I hate a rusty dusty opinion. A rusty dusty opinion can be changed faster than a controlling person.

The Gay Community grew from being Anti-Bisexual, because some of us stopped, listened, accepted, and educated others that not all Bisexuals are out to hurt, or harm, or use you. And not all Bisexuals are confused. These are all old out-dated sterotype ideas based on a Gay or Lesbian's (or anyone elses) unpleasant past experiences. It created a fear of Bisexuals. I believe that the interenet also helped to educate many quickly that Bisexuals come in many different flavors just like the rest of us. My theory anyway is 70% of the population is Bisexual. LoL.

Another interesting fact...

Just a couple of months ago, driving down the road here in Texas, I was passing through radio stations when I paused long enough to hear a local Pastor/Minister say: "All Lesbians have been sexually abused"! I thought, Oh NO he didn't just say that... but, the truth is even that outdated thought process is still rapant in the Christian Community. The Pastor then went on to say he knew this because he was told by a Pastor of one of the largest Churches with the largest followings in America (I would like to know who this Pastor is!!!!). He also said, that this well-known Pastor said, EVERY Lesbian he has Counseled with has ALWAYS been sexually abused. NO WONDER THEY THINK IT"S A CHOICE!!!!! That explains why some of my Christian relatives in the past asked me if this was true for me, for GOD's sake!!! He was probably their Minister!! LoL.That damned Pastor!!! Anyway the point of this Pastor's message was for his listeners to have compassion on Lesbians and stop the hate and start helping them come back to Jesus.

So there is still lots of work to do, North, South, East and West, but it won't be worked out with hate and impatience against lack of education.

Hmm.
 

25 years ago homosexual = pedophile, no one was "attacking" Vlasta, her opinion is incorrect about bisexuals. We can post our thoughts and if our thoughts are incorrect they be challenged. Her words were heavy, had this been said about say butches I'm pretty sure you'd challenge her opinion as well.

This makes sense though, because it's entirely possible that every lesbian who has sought his counsel has indeed been sexually abused. A lesbian who has not been sexually abused, in contrast, probably wouldn't be seeking help. He is twisting the meaning behind the behavior to fit his schema or his intention, but his experience is likely accurate.

Please, just fucking please no.

I couldn't imagine that such a large church would not have encountered other types of Lesbians other than abused Lesbians. But maybe that is the case, or maybe he is furthering his agenda on who Lesbians are. A prime example of someone making general blanket judgements about others without additional exploration.

...........LoL!

A healthy (by healthy, I mean no immediate psychological or spiritual issues in this case) person won't have a reason to seek counsel, so his representative sample is already biased. He's basing his supposition on the lesbians in his church who seek help, not the ones who simply attend his services. It's akin to making an assumption about the people who seek any kind of counseling and ignoring the people who simply walk past the door. They are both a part of the larger population and not mutually exclusive.

2012 Homosexual still = pedophile for some.

I lived in Atlanta during that time, and Gays were very very popular there and also in other major cities. Granted not so popular in other areas, most often not in smaller cities and towns as often still the case today.

I do understand that Vlasta's words would be very heavy to you or anyone who is Bisexual or anyone else for other reasons. Maybe to you Lady Snow no one was attacking Vlasta, but there were statements that I read, that felt to me as an attack. And I wont go and nit pick them out. And yes, I would be right here and willing to educate and debate if it were about Butches, MtFs, FtMs, or for anyone else that I felt an understanding of the subject. I am all for healthy debates. That is were we grow.

I have a bigger issue with the comments that I've seen here than the comments that Cynthia Nixon made.

The misinformation, prejudice and outright hatred towards bisexuals has been downright disgusting.

The fact is that there are a huge number of gays and lesbians who consider themselves gay by "choice".
The other fact is that whether or not we were born this way, it hasn't actually been proven yet.

There are exactly two options here - choice or genetics. Expressing this level of hatred towards anyone who chooses to stand behind the (currently) less popular option is unbelievable disturbing.

It took me 4 seconds to find this quote from Cynthia Nixon:
"In terms of sexual orientation I don't really feel I've changed... I'd been with men all my life, and I'd never fallen in love with a woman. But when I did, it didn't seem so strange. I'm just a woman in love with another woman."

If I had to compare the two statements and pass a judgement I would say that she is someone who has enjoyed the freedom to simply be who she is and never had to give it too much thought at all.

We all knew that 'gay by choice' usually means bi or homoflexible.

But it's her choice to use the word bisexual as she is very correct that it is thought badly of.

There are very few gay people who are here by choice HOWEVER, why should this matter? Why are we better, more acceptable, more correct by being 'born this way'? By having the choice taken out of our hands, by making the best of a bad situation? Why?

Why shouldn't a boy or girl who has a choice, be able to choose? 'The implication being that noone would choose to be gay, unless they are sick, demented or just dishonest with themselves.

I'm glad Cynthia said what she did. Good on her for starting the discussion.

The Heading Reads...
 

OMG.. this picture almost made me want to cry! Have you seen this yet? I don't know if I can make it show up here, because I'm behind the times like that sometimes, Lol.

A Christian group shows up to a Chicago Gay Pride parade holding apologetic signs including "I'm sorry for how the church treated you".


http://imgur.com/bVD9p


If it doesn't work here it is... http://imgur.com/bVD9p

It would be interesting to start conversations with straight people about when they choose to be straight.

I've heard it said that we are all either homosexual with heterosexual tendencies or heterosexual with homosexual tendencies. I was friends with a woman a long time ago who defined herself as straight yet she was living with and deeply in love with, another woman. She explained to me that she identified as a straight woman who happened to fall in love with a gay woman and that if something were to ever happen to her partner, she would not in fact pursue or date other women rather she would go back to her hetero lifestyle of dating men exclusively. I have been in love twice in my life. Once with a woman and once with a man. Do I consider myself bisexual? No, I do not. Do I think I have a choice in who I love? I absolutely do not. I am a walking breathing witness to that. I don't know if being gay is a choice that we consciously make or not, I'm inclined to think it isn't strictly personally speaking, but I do know that who we love is not a choice. I think sometimes sexuality is fluid and we continually grow and evolve in this business of being human, and in that I applaud anyone and everyone who knowingly explores every facet of their heart, soul, and sexuality.

This is not a difference of opinion, to me. Saying you don't like a particular radio station is a difference of opinion. Stating that bisexuals are a threat to queer society (I'm paraphrasing as I understood Vlasta's comment) is going to elicit a strong response. As it should. If this kind of comment was leveled by a right wing minister, would we write it off as a harmless difference of opinion?

Sometimes it feels like we are a bunch of crabs in boiling water trying to climb out of the pot. When one group starts to climb out, they get pulled back down. These types of comments about bisexual people pull all of us down.

Scientific inquiry has certainly pointed to the genetic, biological bases of all sexuality- and actually points to an awful lot of support for it being quite fluid. Personally, I am not going to judge anyone's belief system about their sexuality- nor their sexuality along the scale of uman sexuality.

I do, wish, however, that we all did a lot more reseach on what has been uncovered about sexuality in recent years.

Perhaps we should all be concerned with how to conduct ourselves now that we are here, rather than how we got here. At the end of the day we are still gay and still oppressed by some sections of society so its up to us to make the difference because the religious right surely wont.

I didnt know "gay by choice" usually means bi or homoflexible. I never heard homoflexible either. What does it mean? Is there a heteroflexible?

Thinking out loud and trying to sort it out in my head....I find questions swirling around up there like..... Is sexual orientation determined by who we choose to fuck at a certain time in our lives or is it something more? What does it mean to Cynthia to call herself gay by choice rather than a lesbian by choice? Is there a difference? If Cynthia and her girlfriend break up, will she simply unchoose to be gay? Or would she be choosing to be ungay Is there such a thing as episodic gayness? If I, god help me, ever decide to have a relationship with a man, does that mean I am no longer a lesbian? Does that make me a hetero?

Is gay by choice different from gay by preference i.e. those who are equally attracted to both sexes but prefer one over the other? Are people in prison who have only one sex to choose from considered gay by circumstance?

How does all this impact gay or questioning kids today? How does it affect any kid who is becoming sexual and experiementing. It confuses the crap out of me and I have been at this for a while now.

This is not about Vlasta -- at all.

But i don't think that we should let comments like that stand. It's no different, IMO, from a racist or sexist remark.

It doesn't belong here. We can feel however we feel, but we don't get to say it everywhere.

People can publish their own site or blog or whatever or go to one that hates bisexuals. But that's not us.

Yes, there is now Heteroflexible. All good questions, Kobi.

Blush, I disagree. For someone to say, "Bi's are harming the Gay Community". ...or "Transgendered people are harming the Gay Community". ...or "Gays are destroying the sanctity of Marriage". ...or "Being Gay is a choice". To me all of those are opinions and opinions can change either by personal experience or a change in perspective by some other mind or heart bending situation. Peoples minds over the decades keep changing, stretching and expanding, in turn creating more acceptance for all of us. And I don't look at any of the statements above as harmless. They can be damaging. And through the carnage, understanding can come. It sucks that mental and emotional battlegrounds exist. Too bad everyone couldn't be born with a knowning of all. Instead we are faced with an existence of educating each other on our differences if we choose to.

If we kicked everyone out that said something that offended us whether it be racist, sexist, ageist, classist, anti-semitic, homophobic, anti-feminist, anti-gay, anti-american, anti-you-name-it-anything, how would we learn from each other and grow as a community? If someone says something and their point of view is challenged and they continue to knowingly go on and hurt others with their words than I can see where that type of a person may get themselves to a point of no return. But until then, I believe give that person a chance to learn. If it's a valid opinion I want to hear it. I would like people to feel safe to voice that opinion even if it isn't a popular opinion. Some of us have the patience to teach.

Who said anything about kicking people out?

I hear you. I think we just define it differently. It should always be a choice, not an obligation to educate.

has anyone seen this article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/op...t.html?_r=2&hp

i've been thinking about responding to this thread for awhile but don't feel like i'm in a place yet where i can articulate what i really want to say. but i just saw this on facebook and thought it was really interesting.

Well, i agree that it will be a good day when we don't need the argument -- that we are born this way -- anymore. It will mean we have less need to defend ourselves.

It's hard for me to deny that it's biological though. My first erotic dream was about a woman. My romantic connections with men were ALL emotionally flat. i have been in relationships with bisexual women, and i just don't notice men the way they do. i don't react. That is really the only difference between us. But it is real. I can't imagine feeling what they do. It seems strange to me. Not strange yucky. Just something i can't relate to.

This has nothing to do with my ability to connect with men as friends. But it is pronounced. Undeniable. From the beginning.

Yes. It's people who have labels, but don't feel the need to restrict themselves because of those labels.

Thinkin
 

As a Latina Queer Woman I get sick and fucking tired of having to educate peoples ignorant statements... It gets old.. It's not that hard to think before you speak and check your isms at the door.

Is it wrong for someone to express their thoughts without being afraid?
We all have our own opinions and share our personal thoughts.
It doesn't mean we want to get into a pissing contest with anyone else.
Some of us are good at debates and can explain what we mean, others can't.
I personally don't like pissing contests.
We will always agree to disagree or disagree to agree.

I have an ex that once told me, it's not about being with man or woman that defines who she is, it's who she falls in love with. That day, I opened my eyes and actually heard and understood what she was saying. She put no labels on herself because you can't tell the heart who it can or can not love.

For myself, I don't know if I was born this way. I grew up in a society in an era when you were told that marrying a man and having a family is what was expected of women. My dad was a cop, I was not defiant back then because I knew it would only lead to an ass whooping. I can honestly say, I grew up a tomboy, but at 17 was married and by 19 divorced. I was on a 2 year journey trying to figure out why I didn't like sex or being touched by men. A straight friend of mine sat me down with a bottle of wine one night and we talked for hours. She opened me up to a world I never knew existed because I was really sheltered from it as a kid. Honestly, as a kid, I never knew gay existed. Another friend used to call me a baby bitch in the making and I had to have her tell me what she meant. This is part of my journey, this is my story, this is my truth. I wouldn't change the me I became on my journey for anyone. So, was I born this way or was it a choice?

Exactly. My new worldview this week really is "back it up or back it off".

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who drops a hateful bomb and then refuses to engage beyond their one-liner is trolling.