yes...there is an understanding in such relationships...you can't put your finger on it...but you know when it's there and when it isn't-------it's impossible to explain if you've never felt it--perhaps it's not possible now but isn't it strange that the more we seems to focus all our attention on electronics and social media...the meaner and more cruel it becomes? What is the answer? I just don't understand. :(--i'm rambling a bit but perhaps a few get my meaning---

Yes, I understand. It does seem we were all more like family even 5 years ago. I guess some still are.

Yeah the meaner stuff - I mean look where it is getting us in politics!

I do think it is a huge red flag if you are dating from online and someone would want to meet in complete secret. If you are being discreet and your online community is none the wiser, that is fine. But I always have made sure when I am meeting someone that they give at least one person they personally know my contact information. If someone doesn't want that, it would be a huge red flag to me.

I've been doing online dating for years and years now. It's easier for me as a shy guy when it comes to approaching women, to meet potential dates online. Also, having identified as Butch for all of those years and now Trans, it really narrows down your dating pool right? I'd rather come here and get to know someone via forums, chat, skype and then meet in person knowing that this person on the other side of my screen, gets who I am and appreciates me for being me. Yes, there are people who lie about who they are but that eventually comes out doesn't it? I've been lucky enough to not have gotten involved with anyone who has lied about something significant thankfully.

Yes, you can get to know someone online for a time and feel they are the best person in the world and then meet in person and it doesn't go so well but doesn't that happen when you meet face to face as well? You have a couple of dates, go out for months and then figure out that the other person is not for you. It happens in any time of dating medium. I also don't portray myself as something I am not and never will. I want someone to like me for me and not for some made up BS that I think they want to hear. Who does that benefit?

I tried to date locally and I get either married women who are looking for someone to experiment with or people who just don't get the butch femme dynamic or get me for that matter. i just don't have the energy at this point to try to explain who I am. Do you know how hard it is to explain to someone who doesn't get it why I want you to call me he or why when talking about sex I always use male terminology in relation to myself?

Anyway, long distance is hard, but if two people are willing to put in the work, it can be well worth it. I'm also flexible in my job and can live anywhere in the US so I keep that in mind when I'm starting a new online/long distance relationship. I know it doesn't work for everyone but there are many of us who it does work for so we keep on keeping on.

I must be entirely out of the loop:praying:but you remember that horrible incident some years hence? I totally agree a woman should be wise and make sure her whereabouts are known and that she take every precaution

To this point, I agree!

I certainly wouldn't rule out dating a person who battles depression or PTSD, or has other less serious mental health challenges, but I'm DONE with dating dangerously disordered people! Unfortunately I seem to have had a blind spot for people with Borderline Personality Disorder. Both of the women I dated who I had initially met online seem to be grievously afflicted with that disorder. I won't be falling for that one again. There were a few cues I should have heeded in both cases.

The first red flag for the first one should have been when she spent far too many pixels beating her breast while declaiming her honor. That's usually a sign that a person is deficient in that category. She turned out to be a dirt-bag liar, of course. She also changed gears instantly from charming to monstrous the last two dates when we saw each other face to face, which seems to be one of the signature moves of a person with BPD. There were other signs, but we didn't have enough in-person encounters for me to experience the full weight of her mental illness. Thank the Goddess.

In the second case I definitely should have noticed that the butch in question was, according to her, always the completely innocent victim of everyone with whom she had ever been in conflict. That's usually the sign of a person unwilling to take responsibility for themselves. I should have noticed that. She also cried. A LOT. Which left me in a difficult position. I was deeply uncomfortable with her far too frequent tears, but as a feminist I would NEVER have questioned tears shed by a masculine person. That won't happen again. And she, too, changed from pleasant to dangerous in a heartbeat. I experienced her violence once and I fled. I cut off all contact just as I had with the previous BPD butch, but I spooked myself. How could I have been so blind?

Since BPD isn't that easy to spot even in person, and since I seem to find those losers without trying, I'm no longer putting myself at risk with online encounters.

After coming out of a LDR & it was a pretty long LDR Usa to Australia, I like to believe I have learnt a lot about dating online & face to face & I try to keep my mind open to the possibilities of it again, however I do question things a lot more then I ever have before if I am consider the entire LDR thing again...

I hold no regrets meeting my ex online, but it was a difficult journey & it was a full commitment required to making the process a successful one, considering the distance we were both very cautious & we took it very slowly, we were consistently on skype IE: the only time we were not connected was when we were at work or out shopping etc etc.....We even had date nights via video & watched movies together via video etc, shared our lives with our real life friends etc.... (Yes it was all a little crazy) lol

We did this online dating for 8 months prior to meeting & in that time I mentally got to know her quite well, including all the ups & downs of her personalities etc & it's pretty hard to hide the disguise of your flaws when you are consistently connected via video & voice 24 hours a day 7 days a week just as you would be in real life...

Naturally the physical side was the only thing I found that was missing from the equation for that 8 months.... At least that's my experience of it all...

Even though after 6 years living together & huge sacrifices were made from both sides of the scale it never worked out, but it was not something we took lightly......

I wouldn't have changed the experience & it has not left a sour taste in my mouth to not considering finding love that way again...

With that said, I find it's just as easy to date in real life & go through the same roller coaster of emotions & the getting to know each others perks & quirks dance be it good or bad..... I think it just all comes down to balances & what we are willing to accept or not accept in our lives, we all have our own personal desires that are our "Comfort Zones" ....


The only upside of dating face to face is the physical contact least that's my personal experience of it all...

I feel there is just too much stigma given to the words Online/Real life, local/LD.... Dating I think is just how one views it... Some consider it just online dating whilst others see it as something much deeper & much more personal to them...

Why can't we just name it.... Getting to know someone? The word dating seems to box it into this little square of perception that dating is only possible if it's done in real time or if they live within x amount of miles from me.... I don't feel that to be true... You often can't control who you fall for... Love is just love...

For me it was much more personal then just an online date thing... I was spending the same amount of my real time quality time getting to know my potential partner then as I would in my real life...

If you want something to work it's like anything... Effort needs to be made & you need to know what it is you're both reaching for & you're both on the same page otherwise it will never work...

There are a lot of users on-line who want to move in with you right after they meet you, want you to put them on your phone plan, want you to buy things with your credit....on-line daters need to be aware that not everyone has good motives.

Luckily I never came across one myself, but I have heard of others who weren't as fortunate.

I have to say for myself I have been pretty lucky with my relationships that started online. I had only one that was a disaster. She moved in with me while I was living in Seattle. After two weeks I was done then it got really interesting. She attacked me while I was in the bath tub. I was calling 911 and she started scratching me trying to get my phone away. The Seattle police were going to arrest her but I just wanted her gone. I went and took money out for her to drive back home the next day. I had to have two of my friends sit down the road while she packed up in case she decided not to leave. That left me reeling for a while. That was the first time I had to deal with crazy.

You learn through each online relationship, what you will and will not except. I feel how it's defined is between the two people involved. I think people that cat fish others gives it a nagative undertone.

Thank you to all the people that have opened up on here about their experiences and lessons learned.

A few years ago... *cough* ... this gal and I came up with a feeling and a corresponding phrase that described how we felt for one another. It was quite a bit more than like ... but not quite love... we decided we were In Lust with one another. Yup... definitely ... In Lust!

:p

Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with that at all! :)

I don't see online dating as a substitute for actually being physically in someone's real time life. There is a point where that becomes necessary but getting to know someone in a forum isn't a big bad boogey man and as relevant as any other kind of meeting (to me). It's worked for me fine but if it doesn't work for you, that is also fine. This is a place to share ideas and experience but it stops where you want it to. I think this works for everybody-

What is the dictionary definition of date or dating? I guess I use #7, #14, according to Dictionary.com
 

There are as many definitions of date or dating as almost the number of days in a month:

noun
1.
a particular month, day, and year at which some event happened or will happen:
July 4, 1776 was the date of the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

2.
the day of the month:
Is today's date the 7th or the 8th?

3. an inscription on a writing, coin, etc., that shows the time, or time and place, of writing, casting, delivery, etc.:
a letter bearing the date January 16.

4.
the time or period to which any event or thing belongs; period in general:
at a late date.

5.
the time during which anything lasts; duration:
The pity is that childhood has so short a date.

6.
an appointment for a particular time:
They have a date with their accountant at ten o'clock.

7.
a social appointment or engagement arranged beforehand with another person, especially when a romantic relationship exists or may develop:
to go out on a Saturday night date.

verb (used without object), dated, dating.

11.
to have or bear a date:
The letter dates from 1873.

12.
to belong to a particular period; have its origin:
That dress dates from the 19th century. The architecture dates as far back as 1830.

13.
to reckon from some point in time:
The custom dates from the days when women wore longer skirts.

14.
to go out socially on dates:
She dated a lot during high school.
verb (used with object), dated, dating.

15.
to mark or furnish with a date:
Please date the check as of today.

16.
to ascertain or fix the period or point in time of; assign a period or point in time to:
The archaeologist dated the ruins as belonging to the early Minoan period.

17.
to show the age of; show to be old-fashioned.

18.
to make a date with; go out on dates with:
He's been dating his best friend's sister.

Idioms
19.
to date, up to the present time; until now:
This is his best book to date.

20.
up to date, in agreement with or inclusive of the latest information; modern:
Bring us up to date on the news.

I think the hardest part is being able to spend a lot of time in person before making a long term commitment. It is logistically not easy - unless online where you live locally or not too far apart.

I think the truth of the person comes out regardless in real time, or face to face on skype. I think we always know from the beginning. I believe we see signs and we chose to ignore or pay attention. Reputation in real life and online has some validity but the source is always important to note. I know from myself from experience i have never listened to others opinions of people I always gave people a chance, even if they were right at the end.

In my case the pool is large mostly to the fact that i live in a very open mostly pansexual town, and i present very masculine.
You are right about it being smaller due to femme invisibility, I totally see that. I think many factors play here, especially visibility and community Thank you for that comment.

I think we probably all have different definitions of those terms, for me all online dating is long distance dating. If you cant get in your car and drive at to have a real time date with someone both terms would apply here.

For me, finding someone online is fine. But I want a local relationship. They are difficult enough. I did long distance twice, once with someone I had already lived with who had to move and once with someone I knew as a friend who moved. Our phone contact took a new turn, and we tried a LDR. I hated it. All the waiting along with the potential for more communication issues -- it just wasn't for me.

Hell, we're all busy, and relationships take so much time and energy. If you can't see and touch your person once a week at least, I don't see the point.

I do agree that red flags are often ignored but I don't agree that you always know from the beginning. That is why you get to know someone in the first place. That isn't just due to someone being potentially a bad apple or dishonest either. It's just getting to know them in all different situations. You need to be able to get along and communicate well - both when things are going well and when there is a misunderstanding or problem. And I also agree it is best to get to know someone on your own because you may have an entirely different way of viewing a person and getting along with them than another person does.

I have had many surprises - mostly good and some bad - from getting to know someone better in person. Some could definitely be from not paying attention to red flags but some things you just don't know until it happens. And I don't feel anyone has ever been fundamentally dishonest with me or tried to hide some bad part of herself. And I have done the same. I am always Me. There are definitely some things that I would have never, ever anticipated.

Logistics has also played a role because I tend to always be interested in someone who lives far away! I don't do that on purpose. I always have specific reasons why I am interested in someone. It just has made it difficult to have lots of time visiting in person before making a move due to money, time, distance, etc. So I have made moves based on limited amount of time spent in person, which isn't the greatest thing. It has however involved tons and tons of extensive communication and interaction, just not a lot in person. But I haven't moved out of some kind of desperation that I couldn't be alone or had to have instant marriage. It just was the next step and lots of visits were kind of not real practical at the time. It wasn't ideal. But I took the chance because I do have flexibility due to my work and situation, and real, enduring love and and sharing my life with the woman I love is worth it to me. If I had been able to spend more time in person before making a move would things have turned out differently in past relationships? I don't honestly know, but it is something I wish I could have done and if I can't... maybe it is something I need to pay attention to. It is something I have thought about a lot.

I would much prefer not to do LDR because it is hard enough without the extra factors, but it can be worth if you find the right person. However, when it doesn't work out it does take a huge emotional toll. So I definitely don't blame those who prefer to only date locally, but I understand those who are giving LDR a shot as well.

We humans are such curious creatures! We're so alike and yet so different.

Preface... none of the peeps or situation I'm about to reference on here on BFP! Story time... :p

I met a gal (West Coast) and we hit it off quite well from the start! But... also from the start... I noticed some inconsistencies in some of the things she said. You know ... someone tells you that it's X ... but you're seeing/hearing a lotta Y and a lil bit of Z. lol ;) Anyway... so this was within the first couple of weeks and I've no problem being direct. Gently direct, I hope. So, I asked her straight up ... "Are you involved" and/or "Are you living with someone?" I added that either way was fine with me since we're just chatting and that I was more than happy to continue talking with her. Her response was an equally straight up "No, I'm not." So, chatting turned to flirting and yadda yadda... this went on for about three months... I then discovered that she had been lying from day one and was in fact living with her fiancé! Oy!

In speaking with a friend afterwards I told her that I was surprised by how much I wasn't bummed! I was bummed at losing someone that I enjoyed chatting and flirting with but I wasn't nearly disappointed as I could have been had I took this stranger at her word ... and ignored the red flags. I felt way worse for her fiancé! :(

New story...

I have a friend who's last three girl friends came from meeting online. The first she met online in 2015. She shared with me her conversations with the first two and ... dang... flags... flags... flags!! Despite my efforts and ... coaching* ... for lack of a better word ... she decided to start a relationship each and even moved to be with them. Long story short... first and second where just awful! The second was abusive. She was heart broken over both. Curiously, she didn't say much to me about the third one... so... my fingers are crossed and so far... from what I hear... so good! :)

Point being... we're all so very much alike... we all want love... or maybe just some attention... and yet so different in what we're willing to do... what we're willing to endure ... to get that attention. There's no right or wrong here or judgment on my part. Just some observations from my first half of 2017.

*"Coaching" ... cuz she's brand new... just came out in her late 30's after having been married to a guy for 15+ years. She doesn't know the lay of the lesbian landscape. :p

your comment and a few others made me think of Baskins and robbins.....31 flavors....lot of flavors.....some i dont like and others do.Like different looks in "on line-long distant dating".......and more than a few flavors i may like...even love lol.....but in the end its still dating.....errr...ice cream...

dating ......31 flavors.... lol


PS yes they both have vanilla!!!!! lol

Heh, love the ice cream metaphor firegal! *lol*

I hear Bulldog and Martina and I resonate with similar sentiment in that ..... A) Like both Bulldog and Martina, I've been a member of this community for a very long time. Our history, things we've talked about in either personal or political ways, are really good ways to understand the way we think about most any subject up for discussion among members of the community. Whether it was online here at the Planet or at the years long community that seems no longer what it once was (Dash), people who've been regularly participating in forum discussions are able to see our own unique pattern of thinking, our preferences, whatever..... even if someone isn't a regularly participating member, there is always the proverbial trail of bread crumbs which are unique to ourselves or anyone who has posted on forum boards.

And... B) unless you're a trained professional therapist in the mental health field, I think it's really WISE to not dispense with personal assessment of behavioral issues. I would feel VERY uncomfortable if any therapist or mental health professional crossed that ethical and moral line of conduct. So...to share ideas you have about certain RED flags in behavioral issues is one thing, but it's a slippery slope to reference anyone in shady ways or use the un-named target when talking about serious things that can be deal breakers for many people.

C) I don't have any "dog in this fight" as far as whether knowing if dating locally or meeting someone here and it turns out well or not. I've made several posts about this very thing over the past few years, which anyone can look up on their own. What matters to me is whether another person and myself feel attraction for one another....and other privately held ideas between the two of us, which I don't feel is necessary to discuss openly on the forum boards. BUT...it is important that proximity of nearness be in place for anything to develop and it's also important to me that transparency between each other is of vital importance.

In my mind, these are the building blocks to a solid foundation. What happens next is not up for debate or discussion. Solid foundations are vital to building any relationship, whether it's platonic or romantic, in my mind. :rrose:

I wanted to use a broad term like psychology here because I was interested in the broad perspective of people's philosophy and behaviour towards the concept of dating. Conduct which is governed by ethics, morals and values is certainly part of the general psychology/philosophy to the approach of dating. Thank you for your input.

First I am sorry for taking a long time to respond, I had no idea that this thread would have so much interest. I wanted to give people a chance to comment..

What I meant by "ugly" i think from experience that there is a misconception about an individual that is open to dating people online with the understanding that this is a tool to learn about a person. It is not necessarily a tool to find a wife/partner but it can certainly lead to that. I am not speaking here of a person that is cheating or dating several people the same time and lying about it. I speak here about being completely honest with needs, wants, and capacity. Knowing and preparing oneself for having to possibly date several people at different times to find that special person. To me its the "normal" part of dating. Of course this results in hurt feeling and disappointment, but its not an intentional thing. It is simply the result of two people finding out that they are not for each other.

I'm a tad confused.

If two people are on a "date" or are dating... shouldn't the safe presumption that each is ... in the long run... or at some point... looking for a wife/partner?

Yes, going dates is to learn more about a person but the inherent meaning behind going on a date is that the goal of the parties is to see if they can be ... more than friends. If either individual is not spending time with the other with that goal in mind... can we be more than friends... then that person has an obligation to be make it very clear... this is not a date.

Absolutely not for me. I think its impossible to constantly have capacity for something that is long term. In my opinion, dating is a great way to discover yourself and to grow as a person. I do not believe that in a lifetime that we should always dive into the idea of a marriage. How does one truly understand their need without experiencing life in that way?

I think its great for others that are on a constant search for that one and to be in a position where they can always have capacity for the possibility.

For me it does not work that way. There are stages in life where I feel people have no business diving into a long term relationship.. When do we grow as humans, when do we find out what our truth is.

No right or wrong answer here... but that is my feeling on the matter.

Nope... i want to date, not settle.down...

Oh yeah... I get that date/dating has different meanings/motives for different people. BUT... it's important to realize that there is a generally understood/accepted meaning/motive to date/dating ... even if it doesn't apply to us.

A quick Google of the definition ...

1. establish or ascertain the date of (an object or event).
2. indicate or expose as being old-fashioned.
3. go out with (someone in whom one is romantically or sexually interested).

Or WIKI...

"Dating is a stage of romantic or sexual relationships in humans whereby two or more people meet socially, possibly as friends or with the aim of each assessing the other's suitability as a prospective partner in a more committed intimate relationship or marriage. It can be a form of courtship that consists of social activities done by the couple."

So... as long as one verbalizes to the other party ... in advance... that their particular definition does not follow/align with the generally accepted definition of date/dating... I say go for it! To do otherwise will very likely lead to a misunderstanding and hurt feelings.

I hear what you're saying & agree to some extent...

It's all really our own perceptions I believe...

To me when I go on a date with someone, it has no stigma attached to it, IE... I am not dating them to marry them or uhaul myself into their home, I am not dating them to be their partner at the end of that date, I date to get to know the person I am feeling attraction towards etc & to see where things lead...

But I guess the hope would be there for this to be something more if we hit it off very well for it to be long term partners/marriage.... Otherwise I would just consider it a friendship.....

I have never considered dating a friend as a means to get to know them or myself....My friendships have been pretty much developed known from the start it would be nothing more then a friendship...

Sure! :)

I was responding to knight and dee's response to my previous post. I believe they had the impression that I believed ... or was saying... that the sole or primary purpose of dating was to find a life partner. That's not what was saying. That's not my belief. So, I was clarifying that I understand that the sole/primary purpose of dating is NOT to find a life partner. However... and even so... lol .... I do believe that going on a date does have an inherent ... or historical... meaning for most people. Therefore it's incumbent upon those who see dating differently to articulate to those they are dating exactly what dating means to them. N'est–ce pas? ;)

This is why I asked this question elsewhere ... why does "getting to know someone" require going on a date?

Have I better clarified my clarification?? :p

Oh... and... I have no idea who the "poly folk" are on BFP. I wasn't even aware poly relationships had entered the discussion.

Same with me Dee, I'm looking to date not to settle down by any means...