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Snowy thank you. Some of these issues I've been talking about online for 10 years. I do get frustrated at times when it seems we've made little ground or had a long discussion in a thread and lots of people don't seem to understand what the hell we are even talking about.
Time for me to go chill and do my work. |
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My point was this: If somebody IS a male id'd butch, has asked to be called hy/he and now has the name Trenton instead of Tiffany? It IS emasculating (or whatever word you think fits here. if there is a better word, please tell me) for somebody to attack their chosen gender and use their given name as a way to be hurtful. Not because of the use of feminine pronouns Bulldog, but because of the complete and total disregard for that individual as a human being. Please help me understand why me stating this made you feel like you'd talk yourself blue in the face for nothing? Because you know me better than that. I hope. |
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emasculate: weaken somebody or something: to deprive somebody or something of effectiveness, spirit, or force
eta: it can also mean to castrate, which is not the intent with which I used it. |
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I agree the person using it probably is attempting to emasculate... but in that not only insulting male ID but female ID by using their pronoun as if it is an "emasculator". And to agree that's what it does... is to agree it's a feminizing pronoun. In a nutshell... saying "she" emasculates someone is saying butches who use it by choice are not masculine. Which is just another form of masculinity=male. Peace, Metro |
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So for example, If I expressed my desire to be refered to with the male pronounn he, and someone insisted on using the female pronoun she, I would think of them as rude and disrespectful , but I would not feel emasculated. And vice versa. If I prefer the female pronoun she but someone insisted on using he, I would also not feel emasculated. Rufus |
I know Im off topic again but this discussion is amazing and Im now wondering if anyone would find a thread about the binary of language and examples thereof interesting?
Not just in relation to gender but how the word "prissy" is seen in on way and the word "brusque" is seen in another. |
I also think it emasculating to call a female id'd Butch he and him when they have not asked to be called that. BUT I will find another word to convey what I am saying. I think it goes a hell of a lot deeper than just being disrespectful, thoughtless and rude in either instance. Both are pointedly attacking gender.
I'm sorry for mis speaking. I apologize. |
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Rufus |
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Rufus |
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YES!!! This would be very helpful for me, here is why not that you asked.. English is my second language, so I hear and read everyone in a spanish filter then I have to translate, add the fucking dyslexia and I wanna scream sometimes. Thank you...:blink: |
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Deleting... because frankly... it's tired, lol.
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I do object to seeing masculine used in ways to signify non-female or non-woman. I don't care for masculine-identified because it seems to signify non-female, non-woman. At the same time, there are big limitations in language for people to use to describe themselves in non-binary terms. I am really not trying to be picky, but She can be just as masculine as He in my opinion. Adele, I really didn't take this as coming from you personally. Other people were talking about that it and people use emasculate and feminize as terms a lot when referring to butch, but thank you. You are always very considerate. |
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And you can use the word if you want, that's not up to me... I was just responding to your bringing it up and asking questions specifically about it and giving my perspective (and also- I was replying to Rufusboi) |
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I've been reading this thread all along...learning alot, questioning alot...
For me, the crux of the whole matter is intentionality. If I make an honest mistake in pronoun use, or even with someone's name, and apologize and correct, then I think most folks are okay with that. Heck, I get "he'd" in my work life....my name is Jo and I have a deep voice, and most of my co-workers have never seen me since I work virtually. Many have thought they were meeting "Joe" at our annual company meeting (which has led to some pretty funny conversations btw...). I laugh it off because, frankly, I don't care. It's a misunderstanding, nothing more. I'm astounded to read about some of the nastiness though....telling femmes that they're acting "too butch", intentionally calling an ex by the opposite pronoun or a given name to purposefully disrespect them. The issue, for me anyway, isn't whether I accidentally call someone "hy" that uses "she" or vice versa. The issue is if we are using gender, or sexual preferences, as a way to beat each other over the head out of sheer nastiness. Again, just for me...this sounds like middle-school bullying whereby the vicious kids spotted and zeroed in on the sore spot in order to victimize and belittle ....the short one, the fat one, the nerdy one, the "fill in the blank" one. For me, that's different from misogyny...that's just plain mean. |
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