I agree with Dapper on this. This ain't Pleasantville, and you don't HAVE to be either one or the other. Find out what works for you, please.

Nadeest, I didn't even think of other lists besides WPATH...duh!

http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/Therapists.html

http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

DrBeckysList has a lot of useful information and links in it, in addition to the lists of therapists, just so y'all know. I really like some of her articles that are linked there.

Got a question for you, Leigh... why do you have down that you're femme but yet you posted that you are an out FTM?

Who are you talking to?

Dapper butch... I edited it to add th name...it was too Leigh..I'm new here and getting used to this place..lol

Dapper, the portion of your post that I highlighted above is the one notion I disagree with. A butch can be Transgender. When you said "Trans"n did you mean Transexual? For me, I am unsure if top surgery and hormones, testosterone, qualifies everyone as transexual. I like some others here see the binary as "flawed." I think the word "inadequate" is a more appropriate word when speaking about the short comings of the binary.

I don't know if I belong to this thread... I consider myself transgender of the "genderfluid variety" which basically means that my gender changes with time/situation/ppl I interact with etc...

I think it's great having a thread like that so that ppl can politely ask questions. Better to ask than to assume things, right? :blush:

Hi, Greyson. All I was saying is that there are butches that get top surgery that do not define as trans. I was not saying a butch can't be transgender (I am one of them!).

A person is who they tell us they are, not what they do or don't do to their bodies.

Meaning, I agree with you!

What I try to get across to clients is that they DON'T have to fit in the binary. Often gender questioning clients come into my office assuming that they have to fit.

Does this clarify things?

P.S. When I use the word "trans" I am including both transgender people and transsexual people (FTM/MTF). I believe that this is the current accepted meaning behind the use of the term trans in the queer community.

If you feel like you fit into the thread, than you do!

I am seeing more and more people who define as genderfluid and genderqueer attaching transgender to their identity.

This thread is also a place for people of all identities to ask questions. In fact, that is the point of the thread.

Thank you so much DapperButch! You are always very helpful and kind :)

I don't know where I feel I fit in but I do feel welcome here, both the thread and the site in general. It means a lot to me cause I don't always feel so welcome in my real-life community...

The term transgender confuses me a bit... The way I understand it is as an umbrella term for many types of identities when someone doesn't feel they fit into their at birth assigned gender. I would be most grateful to hear how ppl from the site read that.

Questions asked a while ago but I would like to answer them from my perspective...

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

I've always been treated in ways that made me feel different but didn't really know why. I couldn't tell why I was being called a tomboy, as a kid I didn't think about gender at all...
When I became a teenager I started thinking about gender and how I felt different amounts of boy/girl, different days. At first I assumed that everyone felt like that ;) lol. I couldn't really grasp the idea of having "only" one gender...
Then it has gotten harder the older I became...

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

I've always wanted to be treated like the opposite sex. I don't only mean when it comes to gender equality, I mean for example as a kid wanting to have the same toys as the boys, to play with boys rather than girls etc... I often feel I should have been born a boy, the older I get the more often I feel that... But most of the time I feel I don't truly fit in in the gender binary in general. I feel I'm in between genders...

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

I didn't really decide to come out, it sort of happened... I was coming out as gay and realized that there was more to the whole thing... It was really a crisis, it's still not easy at times...
I tried telling some friends I trust but felt pressured to transition and judged about my feminine looks and behavior. It seems hard to explain the concept of "gender-mixture" and "feminine-man" to someone who hasn't experienced it... I have found it can be a bit easier on the internet, but not always...

*posting post keeping fingers crossed hoping that I haven't -without realizing it- said anything that might be offensive to anyone...

You belong here, agape, and welcome.

The way that I understand and use the term 'transgender' is that it is someone who is gendervariant in some way. It is an all inclusive term including, but not limited to: transsexuals, drag queens, drag kings, tranvestites, and genderqueer people. Transsexual, on the other hand, is a much more restricted term, whose meaning is limited to people whose gender identity is different then what is presumed, when looking at their body. However, not everyone in the transgender world agrees with these useages/meanings. Yep, things get kinda confusing around transfolk, sometime. :P

I would like to ask a question if anyone would like to give your thoughts about this: I wonder how you view "masculinity" as in clothes, behavior, energy etc in regards to someone identifying as male (I realize that what is considered "masculine" is relative but still...).
For example: how would you view a person identifying as male but still behaving/dressing in feminine ways, would you consider that confusing? The reason I ask is because I have encountered this issue when discussing transgender-issues, that gender and gender expression seem to be viewed by many ppl as almost one and the same. So when someone id's as male they are expected to dress, behave in a masculine way. (The same when someone id's as female...)
Personally, after both my own inner journey and also after doing some research/reading, I feel that gender and gender expression are two separate things... Meaning that it's possible for someone to id as male and still be very feminine.
I also feel that masculinity and femininity are more of a sort of energy/personality and don't have much to do with clothes, haircut and so on (but it could of course be expressed through those things).
I'm very curious to hear what others think about this!:glasses:

what agape and harleycat have questions about, ... seem to be along the same lines. which is, a person can be butch or femme and male.

i'm hope i'm not out of place.

I agree with you. Male does not = masculine nor Female = feminine. Therefore, yes a male can be feminine.

Some people say that the terms butch and femme should be reserved for the butch/femme community, but there are gay males who define as "butch", but it is a different type of butch.

Leigh's issue is not the same thing. Her sex/gender has shifted since the beginning of this thread. Perhaps she will come in and explain.

Q and A When Did You Know You Were Different?
 

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

I personally never felt like a little girl when I was a very young child. I did not like dresses or the color pink. I was into toy cars and trucks; I had no interests in dolls. Girls were playing house, dress-up, and were having tea parties and loved everything that was non-active play. I was playing cops and robbers or superheroes, climbing stuff (swings, trees, monkey bars, jumping off things…), I ran and played outside all day long, and rode my bicycle everywhere (it was my favorite thing that was mine). I still have the old bike and it shows every scar of experience (especially the wrecks). I watched action and science fiction TV shows while my girlfriends watched shows on girl stuff and how to be more feminine that I had no interest in. I loved science and finding out how things work (my mother's alarm clocks and my hand-held radios were just some of the victims). Going through puberty was not a happy time for me but I was lucky (I got small breasts and no PMS).

As an adult my behavior did not changed. I still dress only in male clothing. I am not into shoes (I have a couple of pairs of tennis shoes, a pair of dress shoes, and a pair of good boots that is all, simple). I am not into sharing my feelings (not a talker), though I can be caring if someone needs me. I am still a science geek. I still do not like any activities deemed feminine. I am still a very physical person (bicycling, weightlifting, walking, running, aerobics, yoga…) And if I do not have some time outside, I feel hyper and I do not feel well. I do not enjoy shopping (I find it a horrible chore) . I still watch science fiction and action TV shows and movies.

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

Yes, for many internal and external facts:

Biological: Though, I have functioning female organs I have not had any of the hormonal side effects or pain that naturally comes from having them. I have never had PMS, I have light period, my uterus is smaller than normal, I have never had uncontrolled weight gain and gain muscle quickly instead…Nothing says it’s a true female body and it’s like my body is not really preparing for reproduction just faking it (I think my brain and body processes testosterone and estrogen differently giving me my own unique balance or something). I have never been tested and they say some differences cannot be found until an autopsy on the brain and reproductive organs are done (not wanting one of those).

Behavior: I have never acted feminine at anything. I am an alpha personality.

Society: I have been mistaken for a boy or a man all my life and I fit none of the gender roles that society puts on the female gender.

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

I do not think I have ever been in. I either have been seen as a very butch lesbian or a boy or man (which I prefer, but the butch lesbian thing does not insult me either).

I'm in the same boat

Perhaps the school is tracking this population for potential income and/or services that might be available in the future. With the recent overturn with Medicaid regarding medical transitional services, I can see where there might be federal funding available for transgender folks, in the near future. My other thought is that perhaps they are trying to address students who have not transitioned physically and/or they are intersexed or don't necessarily feel comfortable with the usual two choices for gender. In my experience there are more and more transgender folks preferring the gender neutral pronoun, they.

Hi, always2late, good to see you!

I think I am a bit thrown off. If this is for tracking clinical hours, isn't this something you fill in yourself after seeing the client? Is there a reason why you can't identify them in the way that they identify?

There are certainly people who after they "transition' (however they define that word), no longer identify as transgender as they see that as a brigde to male or female. Once they cross that bridge, so to speak, the term transgender no longer applies (I think this is what you were referring to).

As an aside, I'm surprised they didn't use the term "other". Liam referenced intersex folks and my experience is that many of them do not identify as transgender and would prefer the option "other" (along with all the other sexual minority groups who use bigender, non-binary, etc).

Interesting stuff.

Ban lifting applies to Medicare, not Medicaid-at least for now

The appeals board's decisions are binding on HHS unless they are appealed in federal court. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency within HHS that manages Medicare, opted not to defend the transgender surgery exclusion before the five-member board and had initiated the process for lifting it on its own before Mallon filed her complaint.

The ruling does not apply to Medicaid, which provides health coverage for individuals and families with low-incomes and is regulated by the states. Some states have exclusions on sex reassignment surgeries and the sex hormones transgender people often take during their transitions, while others evaluate claims on a case-by-case basis.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicare...urgery-lifted/

My assumption is that you shouldn't second guess your clients. If they say, male, then it's male. If they say female, then it's female. If they say something else, then transgender would be the umbrella term. I don't think you're supposed to choose transgender just because you can see or you guess that someone is trans. Just go down the questionnaire and ask, "Do you ID as male, female, or transgender?" Most people will answer with a "duh" in their tone. But so what?

I cannot imagine why this is relevant to speech pathology, but whatever. Good luck with your program. We need more SLPs out there.

I heard on the radio that it applies to people who get their insurance because they receive disability? I thought that was medicaid too. But that's what I heard.

Medicare is for the disabled and those over age 65. Medicaid is for the indigent, it has nothing to do with one's health.

Regardless, I think that Liam meant Medicare when he said Medicaid.

This just in:
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2014/...nment-surgery/

Hi always. Congratulations on begging Graduate school. I have just completed my first year in a very progressive seminary where we have many Trans students. Many of the students use various gender identifications such as gender queer, transmasculine, transman, male, transwoman, woman. I have transmen friends that what to be identified as Trans even though they are now legally identified as "male." I also know men that were born in a female body have transitioned and refer to their gender as male. I also know another transguy that has transitioned and still identifies as butch.

If I were in your position, I would identify their gender as they identify their gender. If they say they are male then they are male. If they say they are a transman, then trangender would be appropriate. If genderqueer, then perhaps male and female? If you are unsure as to what box to fill in, tell them what the options are on the form you are filling out and ask them would they choose any one or a number of the boxes. I hope this helps.

If you are on Medicare because of a (Social Security Disability or SSD) disability, this would apply to *you*.

Medicaid or in California, Medi-Cal; are need/income based.

They are two separate programs though a person could have Medicare and Medicaid at the same time.

My parents are on Medicare but do not qualify for Medicaid as their income is higher than the criteria.

As far as the ban lifting, so far, it is just Medicare , not Medicaid but it may not be far behind.

It is a beginning and for that; I am glad.

Medicare vs. Medicaid, is very confusing and hopefully I got it right-anyone with a better understanding, please jump in.

Anya, you got it right.

After one year of graduate school and writing papers all year using Chicago style, I am embarrassed to see just how many spelling and grammatical errors were in my post. It was late.

I think its only right to identify a client as transgender if they explicitly identify themselves that way or say they're comfortable being identified that way on the drop down. Could be some trans people would prefer to just put in the sex they identify as rather than just "transgender." Some might like it, others might not.

But overall I think those drop down options are limited. Putting someone simply down as "transgender" isn't going to tell much about them as far as their identity to begin with, since many people under the trans umbrella will identify as transmale/transfemale/gender neutral/genderqueer. A lot of places seem to be changing their options to put in a transgender one, but I really think it needs to be expanded beyond that, otherwise its pretty pointless and almost stigmatising in my opinion. What I like at a few clinics I've been to lately is that they let you pen in your own identity under some kind of "other" option. So you basically get to put in whatever detail you feel comfortable with, if you feel like it at all. Others will actually have trans man, trans woman, intersex and gender queer/gender neutral categories in addition to male/female. I think that's better as it doesn't just lump all trans people into a faceless "transgender" category.

Female; Female to Male Transexual
 

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

Grey you are my bro.....as in bromance! Love and respect you brother...and say hi to your sweet wonderfull wife!

terry

Sorry you had that experience, Greyson, that really sucks! :( Hospitals here are like that as well. Really wish the medical community would get their shit together, and especially since your legal id has been amended!

Edit: one thing I don't understand at some clinics here. Some of them now do actually give you options on your records to tick what you identify as, but then on the front of your record they put the sex you were assigned at birth. For example, one clinic I went to let me check male and trans, but then on the front of my records put female. I just wonder what the point is of them giving you the option (for people who don't have their id changed) when they aren't going to use that information.

Hi always and everyone else. As fir your male, female, transgender question personally I find transgender to be an umbrella politically correct word that feels as if it is forced on us. There is a time and place to be PC however even then you. (a general you) should always take the persons whishes into account.

Again this is just personally to me and my beliefs I am offended by the term transgender and no one has a right to tell anyone I am not a male. After all I have fought all my life to be seen by others the way I see myself, as a male. That is why I use FtM and not trans at this stage of my medical transition simply because it is honest. Once I have completed the process I will identify myself as male. Period. At that point it will be me that decides who knows and when they know that I am not a cis-male. As far as the government is concerned I am already legally a male at least on my government ids and just waiting on the birth certificate decision to take the final step.

So as for your question I think the best answer is to check whichever one the client tells you. Couldn't you ask how do you id instead of what is your gender? I do think if they include transgender as an option they should also include other with a space to expand on that. In my experience more and more younger "transgender" folks identify mote along the spectrum of two spirit and the older ones like myself stick to the terms we grew up with whether that is FtM or MtF.

~Alix~