Aside from that a few key Senate seats are on the ballot this year that could change the majority increasing the odds of an impeachment being successful.

Sorry, I had to step away for a few minutes to try to put in a broker's order to beat out all those Trump cabinet members buying up all the shares of the Remdesivir maker (Gilead?)

I reluctantly agree at this point I feel there is simply no option.

I am concerned by the fact that I believe we will end up with an appointed president. That is to say that whoever Biden chooses as his running mate will have a fair chance of ending up running this country and possibly before the end of his first term. In addition to a number of health challenges that can come his way at his age and in this time of medical uncertainty, he is showing very clear signs of cognitive decline. I can’t help but wonder if he is up to the challenge of steering this country through the next couple of bound to be bumpy years. If not, it will be his chosen and not elected running mate we will have to pick up the pieces. We are between a rock and a hard place.

There is talk of Harris being his running mate so even if something happens to Biden she was my first choice for president out if all the Dems. Of course nothing is solid in that yet anyone beats Trump either way. A 10 year old couldn't do any worse.

Biden has no signs of cognitive decline. He stuttered as a child and still needs to compensate for it and sometimes stumbles over a few words here and there.

Of course, the Bros spread that far and wide before the phony rape charge. Now they all act like fake feminists.

BTW she accused her ex-husband of the same thing - same description of the alleged event, and it also appears in one of her late father's novels- both of them without the Senate hallway of course. But using the digits in both of them. Would someone actually do that in a hallway in the Senate. Really?

I see some evidence of cognitive decline. We've all watched him for years. There's a difference. Is it enough to affect his work? Who knows. It worries me a little. I hope he picks a good VP.

Re the most recent sexual assault allegation from Tara Reade, I don't believe it. But of course it has to be investigated.

I strongly disagree that Biden shows signs of cognitive decline. People need to educate themselves on what people with stuttering challenges go through -especially when talking spur of the moment. Obviously he has accomplished a great deal in his life and overcome many challenges and adversity.

The Bros would cobble together video snippets as “proof.”. Really dudes you were supporting a guy a year older and who had a heart attack. Get real.

Does Biden seem a bit older than even when he was Vice President? Yes and he is by a few years. Quite frankly Trump, Sanders, and Biden are all on the old side to be president yet they were the final three left standing.

Unlike the current narcissist in the White House, Biden welcomes having strong and accomplished people around him. I have a strong hunch he is going to pick Kamala Harris for VP. We’ll see. He will have a strong team.

Tara Reade
 

IDK about Biden's cognitive decline, but he is ageing, and some slowness in any cognitive response is normal. Unlike MF-45* (the narcissist in chief), Biden does not have an ongoing life history of being a sexual predator.

I don't believe that anything re: any allegations by Tara Reade will eventually have any significant impact on the upcoming American election.

re: Tara Reade, it doesn't seem that she is credible/believable... as per an article in:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinio...mn/3046962001/

* (I must say I like A. Spectre's term - MF-45, so I am borrowing it.)

Axelrod On Biden Being Vetted As VP
 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/01/opini...rod/index.html


When it became clear that Barack Obama would be the nominee of the Democratic Party in the spring of 2008, he commissioned a team of lawyers to begin an in-depth vetting process of potential candidates for vice president.

Dozens of women and men under consideration were reviewed. Those who rose on the list of contenders were subject to a deep-dive investigation of their strengths, vulnerabilities and, of course, any disqualifying defects.
At the top of the list of those contenders was Senator Joseph R. Biden of Delaware.

The comprehensive vet certainly would have turned up any formal complaints filed against Biden during his 36-year career in the Senate. It did not. The team would have investigated any salacious rumors of the sort that travel far and wide in Washington. There were none.

While I was not on the vetting team, as senior strategist to the campaign, I was briefed on their work and potential problems.

Through that entire process, the name Tara Reade never came up. No formal complaint. No informal chatter. Certainly, no intimation of sexual harassment or assault from her or anyone else. The team of investigators, expert in their work, would not have missed it.

Reade did not surface her allegations of a criminal sexual assault when Biden was a candidate for president in 2008, nor did she offer them confidentially to the Obama vetting team when Biden emerged as a principal contender for vice president later that year.

Had any credible issue been raised, you can be sure Biden would not have been the nominee. Obama would not have tolerated it, even if he and Biden were close then, which they were not. Their friendship grew only after Biden joined the ticket and through their eight-year partnership in the White House. At that time, they were distant Senate colleagues and most recently rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Our society is just now confronting a long, sordid history of disregarding accusations and silencing women who were sexually abused or assaulted. Women who come forward deserve to be taken seriously and treated with respect, and Tara Reade's story should be heard and thoroughly investigated.

But it is striking that when an experienced vetting team put Biden under a microscope before he was chosen to be second-in-line for the presidency, neither her allegations, nor anything resembling them in Biden's history, showed up.

The fact that Biden is an infinitely better choice for president than Trump does not change the fact that he, on more than one occasion, has been guilty of inappropriate conduct and remarks where women and young girls are concerned. A few of those occasions have taken place during events dealing with sexual assault.

" Caruso told The New York Times that after she shared her story of sexual assault at a University of Nevada event in 2016, Biden hugged her "just a little bit too long" and put his hand on her thigh."

To me, being borderline inappropriate to women right after they shared something like this is very dark indeed. I know Biden straddles the line and even parents and husbands defend him after he is inappropriate with their loved ones however, I feel it is especially damaging to invade an abuse victim's space and distress her with behavior that is confusing and intimate right after she has made herself vulnerable by sharing her story.

Nevertheless as creepy as Joe Biden is, he is the only acceptable choice for president. But that doesn't mean we have to close our eyes to his inappropriate behavior.

Still I find Tara Reade's story suspect because it is out of character for Biden. I mean if he made a habit of crossing that line he straddles so athletically and actually sexually assaulting women we would have heard about it by now. We wouldn't only have that one incident. That doesn't change the fact that he is inappropriate with women a lot. And in very dark ways like at events dealing with sexual assault. But he is a world class line straddler so not much to be done.

However he is not Donald Trump and that's the most important thing in this coming election. So he has my vote.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-...ampaign-2019-6

If Biden is so creepy how come nothing came up until now?

He is a hugger and hands-on. He does that with everyone- both men and women. If some people are uncomfortable with it they certainly have the right to speak up and he says he will change that.

He shows great empathy for people. The only ones who think he is creepy are those who are politically biased against him.

It seems to me that the younger generations are getting less physically demonstrative and more ready to jump on the bandwagon of calling just about anything harassment or assault. I have been hugged by older relatives longer than was comfortable and have had friends male and female place a hand on my leg during conversation. Neither has been creepy to me nor have a I felt assaulted even when I found one or the other slightly uncomfortable. Both are normal everyday actions that some people take. If Biden were a woman the actions would probably have been viewed as emotionally supportive or seen as one of those every day actions. Now I am not in Bidens head nor have I ever met the man personally. I do not know the motivation behind his actions. They could have been truly innocent or they could have not been. I am simply pointing out the generational difference for one, and that some people are more inclined to physical contact than others. Women dont want men to be the only ones able to practice medicine or make more money than they do. They want equality across the board... So honestly, are women willing to give men equality across the board as well in being physically and emotionally demonstrative, and not look down on them if they choose a classically female career? I am kind of rambling with this I know... I just woke up. Anyhow, the point I am trying to get to I think is that Biden has no straight up allegations of sexual assault that I have heard of... No pussy grabbing or anything blatantly sexual in nature, just what some people viewed as creepy, or inappropriate, unless I missed something major. If I was charged with something every time someone saw my actions as creepy or inappropriate, I would have lost every job within possibly a day in a few cases. I watch people a lot until I get to know them and feel comfortable with them in my vicinity and the intense looks I know I am capable of coupled with frequent looks towards someone could certainly make them uncomfortable. Just saying. Ok Im gonna stop now. Morning all... The generational difference was pointed out to me by someone else... That one I probably would not have seen on my own so just to give credit or not claim it where it isnt mine... Bye

I don't think this argument, 'It would have come up in our vetting process', holds water today. Until, oh... about five minutes ago when #Me Too swept our world, a subordinate woman's claims about a powerful man's caddish or criminal behavior towards her carried no weight at all. Zero. End of discussion. It was the woman who suffered the consequences if she dared to speak up. No, it wouldn't have come up in the vetting process. Had it come up, it would have been dismissed. I remember speaking to some straight men I worked with about Bill Clinton's behavior towards women. They were slightly amused. One co-worker told me that Clinton's clearly caddish behavior made him respect Clinton more as a man. Because that's the way a strong man behaves.

Did Biden commit sexual assault? I don't think the fact that Tara Reade claimed it happened in the Senate hallway seems ridiculous. I once came upon my boss sexually assaulting his cousin in the hallway of the movie studio where we were working. There were no repercussions to him, but I demonstrably lost plenty of work for talking about it. In my opinion, doing it in a public place was part of his power dynamic. "I can do whatever I want, wherever I want.' (Needless to say, the cousin continued on as if nothing ever happened, probably because it was long term behavior.)

I don't think there's any contradiction between Biden's championship and support of women and his choice to assault one. They're not mutually exclusive because people are complicated. Elliot Spitzer championed women professionally and abused them privately, too.

Reade told others about her experience, and they attest to it. That's an important fact, and it gives her allegations plenty of weight. Had this been an allegation against someone who isn't poised to evict that evil rust stain from the White House before he defecates in every corner, we would have no reason to doubt the allegation.

I'm voting for Biden, and I would still vote for him even if Reade produced a semen stained dress. Trump endangers us all every single day. The stakes are high and our choices are limited.

Cheryl, yes women have been subjected to horrific treatment for far too long and more women are speaking up thanks to the Me Too Movement. They should be taken seriously and any allegations they have should be thoroughly investigated.

I totally disagree with you that the Obama vetting process would have dismissed it. I don't believe that for one second. I guess neither you or I have proof of that one way or the other but I do believe Axelrod and that Obama wouldn't have tolerated it.

There is tons of evidence that shows how unreliable Reade is. I already posted a bunch of it earlier.

Just got my Oregon Primary Ballot in the mail, today.

I am registered as a Democrat, so I checked all boxes for those who are Democrats, including who we want for POTUS.

I am dropping it off at county headquarters, on Monday.

Keeping my fingers crossed, as well.

Bullshit. I've been watching him for years. There's a difference, and it has nothing to do with stuttering. Don't tell me to educate myself about speech pathology. I'm a special education teacher. I know a little about it. Why are you so rude, Bulldog?

I haven't even seen any videos on the subject put together by the Sanders camp. And I am sick as fuck of hearing us referred to as Bros. Want to influence people to vote third party? Keep calling them Bernie Bros.

Re Sanders and even Trump, they aren't showing their age the way Biden is. It varies.

My reason for not trusting Reade is that she reported it differently two times. But I think Congress and the FBI need to do a thorough investigation.

Martina as far as I’m concerned you are the one being extremely rude to me. I never said every Sanders supporter was a Bro.

Biden aging worse than Sanders and Trump? Is that supposed to be a joke. Sanders had a bloody heart attack - physical - but certainly a big concern especially since there is nothing wrong with Biden’s mind. Trump has gone down from an already seriously demented state. Biden is older but his mind is fine. This crap is b.s.

There is so much bullshit from many Sanders supporters about his so-called mental decline and now running away with the fake rape charge. They are trying to get Sanders in the back door of the back door and get rid of Biden illegitimately and they don’t care what they do to Biden in the process. And I’m so done with the hostage taking threats. Vote third party if you want to. I could care less.

Sure investigate Biden from here to sundown. And now who is going to investigate the 24 plus allegations against Trump. Way to go to re-elect Trump and the charges against Biden are not even credible. Easy way to take someone out. Up the ante at just the right time.

Unrelated to my response to Martina I’m still completely agog that people are dismissing the very strong vetting - one of the strongest vetting processes anyone in the world could ever go through yet it’s dismissed as oh if there was anything they would just ignore it anyway. I have never heard anything more unreal in my life. Both Axelrod and one of the attorneys who directly worked on the vetting have been very clear they found nothing. And she claims to have complained to his staff and the three involved are very emphatic that she never came to them and if she had they certainly would have remembered it. So are all of them lying? Where’s the complaint she supposedly filed? It’s not going to be in Biden’s personal papers. I swear the reporting on this is so shoddy. There is so so so much more.

Carry on with your hatefest of Biden and Trump’s re-election campaign. I have better use of my time.

I look forward to voting for Biden twice - the primary and the general election. And I would never vote for a rapist.

These are some specious arguments. Just because Trump got away with it doesn't mean anyone else should. It's like a kid saying he got away with it, so why can't I?

Also, whether it hurts the Biden candidacy can't be an argument for investigating or not investigating the allegations.

Opinions
It’s fair to speculate whether Biden is mentally fit to be president

March 12, 2020 at 11:09 a.m. PDT

After a disastrous performance in his first debate with Walter Mondale, many in the media began to openly question the then-73-year-old Ronald Reagan’s mental fitness. Writing in the New York Times, James Reston pointed out that Reagan “got his figures mixed up, and didn’t seem to be mentally alert in dealing with Mr. Mondale’s arguments.” The Wall Street Journal noted that “the president’s rambling responses and occasional apparent confusion injected an unpredictable new element into the race” and pointed out that at age 75, "10 percent of people suffer from significant mental impairment — senile dementia, or senility.” The networks ran montages of Reagan stumbling over his words and brought on doctors to discuss the effects of aging on mental capacity.

When the second debate came around, Reagan put the aging question to rest with his now famous line: “I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent’s youth and inexperience.” A decade later, Reagan announced to the world that he had Alzheimer’s disease.
Joe Biden is 77, four years older than Reagan was during the 1984 campaign. If Biden is elected, he’ll be older on the day he takes office than Reagan was on the day he left office. So yes, his mental fitness is a legitimate issue.

There is plenty of cause for concern. Biden recently announced “I think we can win back the House” and promised to ban the “AR-14.” He mistook Super Tuesday for “Super Thursday,” and forgot the words of the Declaration of Independence, saying “We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women are created, by the, you know, you know the thing.” In South Carolina, he misstated what office he was running for, declaring “My name’s Joe Biden. I’m a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate.” On three occasions last month, Biden declared he was arrested in South Africa trying to visit Nelson Mandela in prison — an incident his campaign later admitted never happened. He earlier described meeting a Navy captain in Afghanistan, but The Post reported that “almost every detail in the story appears to be incorrect.” He claimed to have worked with Chinese leader “Deng Xiaoping” on the Paris Climate Accord (Deng died in 1997)/. He claimed during a debate that “150 million people have been killed [by guns] since 2007” (which would be nearly half the U.S. population). He said he met with Parkland victims while he was vice president even though the shooting took place after he left office. He has declared that Democrats should "choose truth over facts” and that “poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.” He pledged to use biofuels to power “steamships.” He repeatedly gets confused about what state he is in; called “Fox News Sunday” anchor Chris Wallace “Chuck”; said his late son Beau “was the attorney general of the United States”; and confused former British prime minister Theresa May with the late British prime minister Margaret Thatcher.

Any one of these gaffes in isolation would be nothing more than that. But taken together they form a pattern – and raise questions about whether Biden has experienced a cognitive decline. Biden’s defenders say this is unfair, and some have even suggested raising it is ageism. No, it’s not. His socialist rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is 78 — almost a year older than Biden — yet no one is questioning his mental fitness. On Monday night, Sanders spent an hour at a Fox News town hall where he was challenged to defend his policies and answered in great detail and without any gaffes or senior moments. Could Biden do the same?

Many of President Trump’s critics have suggested that he suffers from cognitive impairment. Well, in 2018, Trump took a test designed to screen for dementia — the Montreal Cognitive Assessment — and the White House physician reported he received a perfect score. Will Biden submit to the same test?

Sanders took a subtle dig at Biden during the town hall, pointing out that while he speaks for 45 minutes to an hour at his campaign events, Biden recently spoke for seven minutes. The two men will have their first mano-a-mano debate on Sunday. How will Biden perform over the course of a two-hour discussion? Perhaps he will put concerns about his mental fitness to rest. This much is certain: Democrats are about to pick a man they hope will be the first octogenarian president in American history. It is fair to ask whether voters are choosing a candidate who’s not up to the job.

Starting out this post with my disappointment that once again we, the voting block have a choice of

A Old white man
B Old white man

With numerous choices of female candidates who were/are so capable and brilliant, only for it to come down to this, is a disappointment. THAT being said.......

"...During 2017 when Reade was praising Biden, she was condemning Russian leader Vladimir Putin’s efforts to hijack American democracy in the 2016 election. This changed in November 2018, when Reade trashed the United States as a country of “hypocrisy and imperialism” and “not a democracy at all but a corporate autocracy.”

Reade’s distaste for America closely tracked her new infatuation with Russia and Putin. She referred to Putin as a “genius” with an athletic prowess that “is intoxicating to American women.” Then there’s this gem: “President Putin has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness. His sensuous image projects his love for life, the embodiment of grace while facing adversity.”

In March 2019, Reade essentially dismissed the idea of Russian interference in the 2016 American presidential election as hype. She said she loved Russia and her Russian relatives — and "like most women across the world, I like President Putin … a lot, his shirt on or shirt off.” ...(more)

*barf

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/3046962001/

________________________________________________

We need to support Joe, holding your nose or not at the ballot box. If MF45 steals the election again, I don't know if any of us, our planet will survive him.

I don't know whether Biden sexually assaulted Reade or not, I tend to believe the woman when accusations are made, but there has been some credible confusion regarding this incident. However, the more I read, the more I understand that whether or not Reade had the courage to call it sexual assault when she reported it, she told plenty of people what happened. And the only thing reticence on the part of abuse victims indicate is that they have a strong survival instinct.The person who will be most traumatized and vilified by this allegation is Reade. I can't imagine any woman wanting to go through something like this for fun.

No woman can believe, me too movement or not, that the cost of pointing out politically powerful men's sexual transgressions will be higher for the man than for the woman. The cost is always much more for the woman. And imagine what the cost will be in this political moment considering what is at stake for this presidential election.

Even if the process by which Biden was vetted for VP did not turn up Reade's allegation or any hint that she ever made one, I am certain Biden's penchant for groping disguised as making a connection certainly would have. That's what Biden calls it, making a connection. Why they couldn't see the writing on the wall is a testament to the widely held belief that men do not need a woman's consent before they touch her. But regardless of what most men and some women think, it is not a benign connection if there is no consent on the part of the woman. But then making a benign connection is so not the point of inappropriate touching.

I know it would be asking too much to expect a team of lawyers engaging in an in-depth vetting process of a potential candidate for vice president to understand that unwanted touching is an expression of power and the persistent habit of coming up behind women (in some cases complete strangers) and smelling their hair, massaging their faces, rubbing their shoulders, touching noses or foreheads or putting your hand on their thighs is deeply offensive, inappropriate and more than a little creepy. Too bad though. Perhaps if the vetting process had found Biden's behavior a credible issue there would have been another choice for vice president and we would be in a different situation right now. Maybe we would have a candidate who didn't propose that touching women without consent is an act of empathy and something they just cannot help but engage in.

But that is not the case and as a woman who has experienced many different types of sexual abuse, I prefer unwanted touching thinly veiled as an empathetic interaction over rape so Biden trumps Trump in my book. But that's not the only reason to vote for Biden over Trump. I think that is clear to everyone. And although I never imagined myself believing this but at this particular time there are more important issues at stake. However that doesn't mean this allegation should not be investigated. Besides, I believe at this point the outcome of any investigation concerning either candidate on the democratic or republican side will not change anyone's mind about which candidate they are going to vote for. The line is more clearly drawn between democrat and republican than I have ever seen in my lifetime.I don't think there is any issue that can change people's minds. I mean no matter what Trump does his supporters remain constant. The agenda is more important that the candidate in this political climate, which is why someone like Trump has the upper hand when it shouldn't even be a contest. The republicans are better at keeping their agenda in the forefront regardless of all the white noise. Nothing deters them. Trump could shoot Dr. Anthony Fauci on national television and it wouldn't even give them pause. If the only choice is Trump or Biden, it doesn't matter what he has done or how mentally fit he is, the only choice is Biden. I know there is something off about that, but there it is. I don't see a way around it at this point.

Biden isn't as wretched a candidate as Clinton was, and now we know how bad Trump is. Plus we are weathering a global crisis with poor leadership. So I think Biden will win -- IF he isn't in serious cognitive decline. If he can't keep it together through the campaign, the Dems could lose. Again. Once again, the Centrist Dems will have fielded a losing candidate. That's the point. Clinton lost. Clinton lost because she was a bad candidate who ran a bad campaign. That's who the Centrists backed, and we got Trump.

Again, Biden isn't Clinton. And it's been a hellish three years under Trump, so if Biden can keep his wits about him, all polls indicate Trump will be gone. But it's an open question. Just how much has Biden declined, and how evident will it be? I honestly think the sexual assault allegations will not be a huge factor although I think they should be investigated. The Centrist Dems are showing what hypocrites they are re this, but maybe the ends justify the means here.

I voted Clinton last time. It was hard to do. I truly despise her politics. It will be easier to vote Biden unless he demonstrates that he is mentally incapable of doing the job. If he does, we are so fucked. I do not think Bernie has any plans to step in. I think the election will proceed. Although it looks like a shoe in for Biden now, if he really looks like he's mentally in decline, we will have Trump again.

And it will be thanks to Centrist Dems again. They lost it before, and they may lose it again.

OK, so now what?
Figure that Biden is mentally "deficient"?
Believe that he committed sexual assault?
Figure you've got a great candidate just waiting in the wings?

My own view is that unless countries are willing to elect women, they will forever be plagued by these types of accusations.

So what to do?
I suggest you design an "It's Disgusting Behaviour Scale". Anything close to "Zero" and we'll cut your nuts off
Anything close to 10 and we'll crucify you, wait 3 days and give you another shot at getting it right.

Otherwise, elect who you will, try not to get duped by venal corrupt men with fat fingers and then stand on two sides vilifying each other and screaming at each other about how dumb the other is.

But maybe the truth is that there is nothing exceptional about any of us, we just want someone else to take charge; we like to think we're smart enough to choose; then we shit on our choices...and that's how we roll.

I do not address any of my posts to anyone in particular. That's a quite general "you" in there. A rhetorical "you" if you will and I'm going to practise writing without it.

It truly is sad that Warren didn't do better. She ran a good campaign. I think her natural constituency just was more energized by Bernie. Bernie beat all the near progressives, and Biden beat the Centrists. Then the machine and the liberal press came out and made it too difficult for Bernie to win. Perhaps they would not have done that if the last two Democrats were Biden and Warren.

I get why wealthier voters and the establishment fear Bernie. They have good reason to. He represents meaningful change. I don't get why more people didn't support Warren. I really think sexism played a role. Maybe some of it was that they fielded a woman candidate last time and lost. It's too bad. I think Warren would have kicked Trump's ass in the general election.

As an aside, I don't give a rat's ass about electing a woman president. Remember Margaret Thatcher? It doesn't mean a thing to me. I was excited when an African American won. And I would have been excited if Buttigieg had won although I didn't support him. But women have long been the backbone of the Republican Party. Most white women are conservative. It will not mean a thing to me when a woman is elected. The first Native American or lgbtq person, that will be a great day.

The DNC, like most systems of power is hard to change from within. And they have the power and the means to push their candidate to the forefront. Most people, at least before this pandemic, are just trying to go to work everyday, take care of their family, pay their bills, feed their kids etc. The stress of everyday life has most of their attention. And barring a compete collapse of society they won't do much in depth independent thinking about who is running the show. They will vote for mainstream candidates that don't stray far from the party line. It's safe. Stay in the middle of the road and there will be less accidents. However, this is pretty close to a societal collapse and we need a very strong person in the oval office but if people can't do anything but follow like sheep and accept whatever they are fed by the DNC and the corporate media what can you do? Ultimately despite the power of centrist dems and the corporate media, people still have to make the choice to follow them. And they are! We are living in urgent times and have a small window for change still open at this time. The window is closing and as the societal and economic results of this pandemic becomes apparent people will be at the mercy of the elite in power who have agendas and they will have the opportunity to push them forward. In times of stress and upheaval people are always willing to trade freedom for the illusion of safety. We badly need someone worthy of our trust to lead us through these times.

Further to my previous post and point about electing women ...like them or not and whatever you think of their politics, no one ever accused Golda Meir of sexual assault. Come to think of it, Indira Gandhi was probably on the safe side too.

Your post should have at least 5K likes (by now), because as a survivor of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and a survivor of domestic violence (by both male and female abusers), I understand your post and appreciate the time you took to articulate exactly the thoughts I have had on my mind for the past few years.


I have nothing more to add toward the post you've shared with us here, except to say that your air-tight argument is exactly what I wish other people could fathom. As a survivor of sexual assault, sexual harassment and a survivor of DV, I appreciate you greatly.

Thanks for your post, Cin.

Short of going to a majority wins voting system and having multiple candidates on the ballot, at this juncture, centrists are the majority in most states. Therefore, those of us that consider ourselves anywhere on the left need to back whichever democrat is on the ballot. That is why Clinton lost. Too many centrists either voted for a third party or did not vote at all because they did not like either candidate. Clinton might not have been a great choice, but she was a far better choice than who is in there now. If the progressives choose to act like the centrists during the next election and stay home, then we will have another four years of Trump.

Bernie is a great politician and his ideas are innovative and I agree with most of them. He is a bit erratic to make a good president though. His ideas need someone behind them with the tenacity to see them through and I don't see that in Bernie. Maybe that is not quite accurate though. Its more that I see him pushing for too much at once and not being able to see anything through to completion in his first term, which would be an open invitation for the republicans to get someone else in office again.

Bernie would have made an excellent VP under Harris had she made it on to the ballot. They could have evened each other out I think. Harris being more methodical in her approach and Bernie always pushing for more. I can truly see a whole lot being accomplished under those two. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen so we must accept what is happening and ensure the most favorable outcome possible at this point in time occurs.

Hillary did not lose because of third party voters. Many more than predicted voted Democrat. The votes she counted on and didn't get were women in the Midwest who had voted Obama but voted Trump in 2016 and urban African Americans in Milwaukee and Detroit who didn't vote. She didn't even campaign in Wisconsin. People use that as shorthand for how she lost the race. She didn't fund the ground game when a lot of people, including her husband, told her there was trouble.

Third party voters were not a factor. You can look at the numbers and say oh if she had gotten those, she would have won. But you can say oh well if she had gotten Christians in Texas, she would have won. Those votes were never hers. The more mainstream progressive Democrats and Bernie supporters voted for Clinton. What's more, they came out in surprising numbers to do so.

Ad from the Lincoln Project....

I was terrified by 3rd party voters in 2016, to the point that i wrote about it when i started this thread

:superfunny:

But i am closer than i've been since 2000 (Nader) to doing it. I was on the fence about whether the dem establishment rigged the 2016 primary against Bernie but they sure as heck rigged THIS one

Nothing has been rigged against Sanders. Millions and millions of more Americans voted for Biden than Sanders because they think Biden has a much better chance to beat Trump. You dismiss the will of millions of Democratic voters. Most do not agree with Sanders or think he can win. The same was true in 2016. Nothing was rigged against him.

Sanders supporters are not the majority of the Democratic party. That's it. Democratic Party voters get to decide who their nominee is. No one is rigging it.

Sanders has helped to fuel conspiracy theories which make people distrust the voting process when things don't go their way. Congrats Sanders. What an American hero.

All this nonsense about things being rigged is such b.s.

Democrats are not the majority of democratic party voters, either, i don't think. The majority are "lesser of two evils"

Biden is slipping in the polls.

Every recent poll I've seen has Biden leading - especially in the swing states.

Here's the latest one I saw today.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...legrounds-poll

Slipping. Not behind.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUSKBN22I005

Okay. I hadn't seen that one poll but it's just one poll and I'm not worried. I also cited a poll that looked good for the swing states - it also is just one poll at one point in time. I've seen other swing state polls that are similar and those are the polls I'm paying the most attention to. The bottom line is it comes down to the swing states.

Anyway, there's a long way to go. With the horrible way that Trump is handling the crisis and all the states that are opening up prematurely, I don't think Trump is going to be looking too good. But I definitely am not taking anything for granted.

I personally think polls are a lot of malarkey and I don't waste my time reading them!

How much can polls mean when the only people who respond to them are the people who like responding to polls.