I would suggest writing down/printing out the Endo protocol for testosterone treatment and bringing that into your physician. Ask them why they are not following this. Is this a PCP or an Endo? It does not need to be an Endo for good care, as an aside, as long as the person has experience. If she is a PCP and does not have experience seek out an Endo. However, I also realize, as you said, with little resources you can only go with what you got.

If you identify as genderqueer, I assume, that you do NOT want to masculinize to the point that you look male to yourself and male to others. Be aware, that no matter how small the dose, you will eventually look like every other male, including lose your hair.

You asked if we thought the reason your physician had you at a low dose was because you are genderqueer. There is not 'genderqueer dosing".

If she is starting you out on .125ml every other week, it sounds like she might be following current Endo guidelines for a 16 year old. These guidelines are most often used by Endos who are new to the work. I understand that these guidelines are being changed and new ones will be out next year.

Providers in large trans healthcare systems usually start a 16 year old boy on .3ml in order to catch up with his peers as he will not be able to pass as a 16 year old starting on such low doses. Endo guidelines are too slow and causes greater dysphoria for the teens. An adult FTM is most often started on .5ml and stays at that dose until they are about 3 years in. Then some guys drop down their dose. That is not set in stone.

I am going to assume that if your goal is to look "more masculine" as a genderqueer, that this means that you would like to look androgynous. I suspect that an experienced trans healthcare provider would start you at .2ml or .25ml, but I can't really say for certain. The problem is that we cannot pick and choose how masculinized T will make us, based on dosage (a nod to Liam here). Most physicians will not provide individuals who "just want to look more masculine" for this reason. If they do provide "low dose T", it is to give the person time to determine if they would like to transition.

If you would like, I can email the head of the trans healthcare department at the Mazonni Center in Philly and ask them their protocol. They are one of the leading programs in the U.S. I know the answer will be something like "we would talk with the pt. about their goals and then go from there", but I will push for something general.

Good luck to you.

Thanks your all your advice. Definitely gives me food for thought. Am seeking more of the positive male emotional and mental attitudes. Also, wish to masculinize my appearance somewhat. Have a few more sensitive questions that I would like to ask you by PM.

Thanks to all for your assistance!

You are very welcome to PM me.

Wow - and - anyone else MTF...?
 

Wow, I have learnt so much about you FTM gents from reading through this thread! Thank you all for sharing. May you all find inner peace and much happiness in your lives!

But I cannot help but wonder - are there any other MTFs here? I transitioned quite a while ago, but would be interested to hear of other MTF's experiences with the lesbian scene.

Satiated, I can so relate!
 

I found this thread very interesting as well. I can relate to some, and some makes me have more questions.

I too was in a relationship with an FTM... He transitioned very shortly after we got together. It was a whirlwind experience for me, scary as well... confusing.. etc

I supported him through his top surgery which scared the crap outta me because I had to take care of him in the hotel after surgery, tubes and drains everywhere... Of course I messed it up, and he had to have a revision... BAD way to start a relationship...

The things I experienced with him was an excess of anger and blame, always to be put off by saying its the *T*

Then there was the group of friends that were also trans men and the comments such as *I can't believe you still ID as lesbian" I felt that they thought there was something wrong with me!!!!

Fast forward, eventually when we broke up, the comment was, * I shoulda stayed butch and you wouldn't be leaving*

Unfortunately, I think I got a lot of messages that weren't correct and maybe specific to this relationship, but, regardless, I was left feeling it was all about the trans man, and what about the femme on the other side? I was a femme, I was lost in this process of someone else's transition...

So, I guess with all this said, I am looking for clarity.. I am looking for someone that relates... maybe from the FTM side or the femme side!!!!

There are MTFs on the site!

I can relate, V. My first relationship with a transguy went something alone those lines, except he didn't fully transition during our relationship. I was questioned about my identity, mainly by him, and the T and his journey became the focus of the relationship versus 'our' journey together.

There are a couple of MTF women here. Welcome! I am very glad you are here! :bunchflowers::bunchflowers::bunchflowers:

Thank you, sir, that is sweet of you! I am moved by tales like Vivacious1's, because they really make one think about what it is to be human, to love, to be lesbian or hetty or gay or bi or whatever, and it must be so hard to find that your partner needs to become something outside of that bunch of characteristics which you find attractive, or to find that your partner simply does not have it within them to continue to love you when you become what you must for your own sanity. I count myself lucky that I have never been in such a situation thus far.

This has me pondering how I might feel if a very butch woman made a pass at me. If I found her attractive, I think I might feel a need to make it clear, as gently and politely as possible, that where butch becomes male is probably the point beyond which my emotions could not follow, except as friends. I would hope that they could understand why.

Hi and welcome!

I wonder if you would mind expanding on this a little? I don't understand exactly what you mean "if a very butch woman made a pass at me...where a butch becomes male".

Are you speaking about a FTM trans person that identifies as a male or a very butch woman that identifies as female and is a butch lesbian?

Thanks!

Of course I wouldn't mind Anya. What I'm trying to get at is that I do not, at my current state of knowledge, know how I could tell a pre-transition FTM person from a non-FTM very butch woman, short of asking the individual before me whether they are FTM or not. Which would be rude. And given that I am not interested in intimate relationships with males, getting romantically involved with a pre-transition FTM would not be fair on either of us. So I'd prefer to avoid that latter possibility, and also avoid being rude, if at all possible. The only way I can see that I might possibly achieve both objectives is by intimating what it is that I want, rather than asking them if they are FTM or not. If there is a better way, I am all ears!

Hi there.. so I am a middlesexed genetically neither male or female.. I am a Queer Male identified person.. I have a genetic illness called CAH . I am genetically neither male or female although I am male in appearance I am female in body parts... The rainbow has many spectrums.. you asking if they are pre or post op is not rude its honest.. Honesty is always the best practice.. I am lucky enough to be with a woman who love the Me, I am.. Dont ever think asking such a question is rude.. that person I am quite sure has been asked the same question if not worse many times before.. I am questioned and asked things 24-7.lol

You aren't alone in this. There's actually a song by a queer band called Coyote Grace. The song is titled Picture Frame.

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

All you can do is have a conversation with them.. simply ask if they are from and just tell them you mean no harm and let them know your preferance..honesty and being upfront is always the answer

I hope it is ok to piggyback off of your response.

I am very attracted to butch, female-identified, lesbian women. Sometimes, there is no way to know if someone is a male-identified trans person vs. a butch lesbian.

I look at it as a potential friendship.

If someone indicates interest in you and you have interest in them, that is the beginning.

I don't ever want to be afraid of a potential friendship with someone even if they might not be someone I would want to date on an intimate basis.

It sounds like you have some fear of getting involved and then finding out it is not something that you want to pursue.

I think that is the risk for all of us out in the world. Sometimes we are initially attracted to someone and then find out that there is no chemistry.

It is that way regardless of how someone identifies.

The only time in my own life that I felt unsafe or felt that something could or would happen that I did not have the power to stop was before I came out, with a biological male.

Not that it could never happen with a LGBTQ person, but I think most of us are very sensitive to the feelings of others and don't want to be where we are not wanted.

DaddyChrisCo is right, when you really need to know, ask kindly and with respect.

We can never go wrong with that approach.

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

I think it is rude to ask if you are just curious, but if it is a potential dating situation, you need to know.

You are welcome!

I had another thought.

No matter who we are attracted to, people change over the years.

We have no way to know when someone may be unconsciously struggling with gender or identity issues.

As time goes on, the unconscious can become conscious.

It does not mean that the person was being dishonest, they may not have even been aware of their feelings.

There is no way to prepare for every eventuality.

When I was 16, I saw my first butch. I knew that she gave me butterflies in my stomach and that I felt extremely nervous when I was around her.

I married and had 2 children before my repressed lesbian feelings came to the surface and I was in touch with them consciously.

The end of my marriage had zero to do with this but what if it did?

All we can do is to be as honest as we can be with ourselves and pay attention to anything that gives us concern when we meet people to date.

Dating is anxiety-producing, regardless.

Sometimes, we just have to take a chance and go for it.

I have been single again since this past October. I just realized it has been 10 months and that I still have not felt ready to date yet.

I can give advice, maybe I should take it...

:blush:

another question
 

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

Yes.

Esme, nha Maire,

Yes, it is completely appropriate (and most likely appreciated) to ask those questions. In places where you find butch,femme, and trans identifying people, gender is talked about a lot. Part of that is because people are figuring out for themselves who they are as it relates to gender. On top of that is figuring out who you are attracted to! Therefore, it is common, very common, expected really, that soon in one would ask how the person identifies. You hear a lot more variance in butches than you do in femmes. I think that part of that is because one slides along the gender continuum with butches in the way that you don't (as often), with femmes.

It sounds like you are interested in a female identified butch. You may only be interested in a female identified and woman identified butch (who most likely identifies as a lesbian).

Too, I think it would be prudent to ask any butch presenting female bodied person if they have ever considered transitioning. If they say, yes they have, you might want to take pause. Like you said, no reason to start going down a road that leads to only heartbreak. I am with you.

Prior to transitioning I identified as a Stone Butch. Which, for me, meant no sexual contact with my chest or genitals in the bedroom. I also did not identify as a woman. I dated queer stone femmes. The queer stone femmes I dated didn't want to touch my chest or "junk" any more than I wanted them to. They didn't see themselves as a lesbian because they had no interest in interacting with a female chest or genitals. I didn't view myself as a lesbian because I wasn't a woman. So it all worked out!

Anyway, know what you want, and make sure that both the person's gender identity and their sexual preferences are a match for you. It is pretty common to find butch/femme folks involved in kink or BDSM.

Good luck!

Personally My opinion is if you are in a relationship there should be no secrets... I am all about up front honesty...this was one of the first things Gemme and I discussed

so...
 

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

Yes honesty is above everything else.. I would never be with someone I couldn't be with.. maybe that person is just uncomfortable talking about it? But it needs to be talked about.. weather it is casual or serious

When trans people are medically transitioning, their partners are transitioning, as well. They get lost in their partners' transition, and that isn't fair. A good gender therapist will think about the trans person's partner, and other family members, too. There are a handful support groups on FB for partners of trans people.
One partner's gender identity/sexual orientation should not define the other person's. There is nothing wrong with identifying as lesbian when you are with a trans man. People identify as lesbian and date cis, straight men.
T is a bullshit excuse. Trans men don't get a pass on learning to manage this agitating-type hormone any more than cis men do.
Unless it is something super obvious, I suspect his need for revision had nothing to do with your care. Many, many guys need revisions after top surgery.

Are you talking about trans men who are moving through society as male? Are you talking about when they are dating in the heterosexual community?

I am asking because the other poster was talking about trans guys who are pre-T, and if she it is rude to ask masculine looking females if they identify as butch or trans/ a combo of both.

These are two different topics, in my mind.

Same as above.

Kobi, I really hope you are just speaking for yourself because there are plenty of lesbians that don't share your views, and there are lesbians who do date trans men and they still identify as lesbians.

AGREED!!!! Couldnt have said it better Myself...

I have found that lesbians are the most judgmental in accepting of all lgbtq... so you are saying in your eyes ftm and people Like Me Queer Middle sexed people should not be here??? That's the very definition of homophobia... and non acceptance of every flavor of Our big rainbow... Not every lesbian is just a simple butch or femme... there are many spectrums... the lesbian community lacks acceptance of things other than the cookie cutter "lesbian "... makes Me very sad

Kobi, I find your transphobia mind boggling.

First of all, how is your life, identity, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or anything else defined by someone else's dating choices?

Another lesbian's dating life doesn't define me or anyone else.

And who you date does not define who you are either. If I ended up dating someone who didn't id as femme that wouldn't mean I wasn't butch all of a sudden.

A lesbian can date another lesbian, another woman who doesn't id as lesbian, someone gender queer, a trans man, a cis man, etc. She may very still see herself as a lesbian because that is how she has id'd for a long time and it didn't suddenly change just because she is dating someone of a different id than she did before.

Being a lesbian is not just about who you sleep with. There are community and social ties, your own personal history, your own sense of how you identify and a whole host of other factors that go into it.

You only get to define lesbian for you Kobi.

I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?

In my opinion no one has the right to define anyone's relationship. I'm not sure why people think they are so important that they can impose their opinions on a whole group of people. We all need to stop slapping labels on people and let them live their life as they see fit.
As a trans man I have been shocked by how a small group of woman in our community like to marginalize FTMs when they them selves are marginalized by our society as a whole. You would think they would have a better understanding of how that feels.
Also, enough with the definitions. They are only someone's opinion anyway. How about we are all just human beings. There! Then no one can judge or hate if we are not defined, categorized or labeled. We are not insects for god sakes.
Sorry JDeere for jumping on my soap box. I get tired of being analyzed just to make a few others feel superior over another group of people.

Ummm by your definition this is a lesbian site not a queer site.. I don't understand why people have to worry about others bedrooms? Also by your definition STONE BUTCHES would not be lesbians either... so confused who qualifies... In the end your view and the views of other who may share this view dont dictate who others love or their identity... More love in this world and acceptance is what the world truely needs

Yes. If this was a lesbian site, by the above definition..."women loving women with no sexual boundaries", then the site would be cut by probably 75%.

It is my understanding, that this is a butch (as gender) and femme (as gender) site. There is also a long tradition of people who regard themselves as either completely outside of, or somewhat outside of, what is male or female (aka trans), being on a forum like this.

Some of us happen to identify as lesbian, as well.

The site is more about gender and who we are, than who we fuck, in my opinion. We are here because we are all queer and the butch-femme dynamic speaks to us in some way. Some of us have been together since 1998 when another butch-femme forum opened.

Thanks for answering!