That's right. They always have a choice to do the right thing. No excuses.

I know 2 police officers in real time and neither of them agree with the tactics that have been employed. Now, both live in tiny towns that do not have a lot of crime- and have not had "crowd control" problems that have ever become violent.

I don't like what is going on here in the Bay Area in terms of the police raids and actions. But, I also don't like seeing an officer's face slashed with exacto knoves when they are just standing there and simply telling demonstrators to stay on the sidewalk. Guess, I just don't like violence or property damage to innocent parties. They have not been involved in any OWS activity at this point. I'm not going to stereotype all cops- even those around me. There have been many police officers joining in protests over the last year against anti-union legislation passed in WS, for example.

Now, this article is upsetting- and it looks like the Goodman research has turned-up some confirmation. Sorry if this link has already been posted.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...ds?via=siderec

i think...of course i'm no expert on cops....but i think an entire generation of cops haven't had to deal with anything like this (meaning local civil unrest on this scale). i think their scared of it. i don't think their used to having their authority challenged and i'm of the mind that this is what's behind a lot of the violent responses.

this info doesn't surprise me. i'm surprised that this info surprises people. still. after all that's been done.

Abhorrent. As a non-violent person who has been involved in actions and organizing against police brutality, it sickens me every time.

But it seems they aren't "really" just sitting there doing nothing. The demonstrators seem to have received direction to disperse, and chose not to, as well as received warning that they would be pepper-sprayed, and they chose to stay. So with all the media there, it seems the police response was anticipated, and maybe that was the goal.

A well-organized action uses these kinds of tactics to gain attention to their cause, so I would consider this a successful action if the protestors moved closer to achieving their goals through what happened here.

I know I can be a buzzkill. I trust the readers of this thread know I'm interested in achieving a world of fairness, with the least violence possible. I dont support putting oneself in harm's way- someone being pepper prayed or beaten -- unless they are part of a coordinated action that has medical and legal contingency plans. Since it seems like police brutality is going to become standard behavior even against white people (!) I hope as few as possible suffer permanent damage, and at least it can be documented in service of worthy goals. Including ending police brutality against all people.

uuuhhh.....what does "even against white people" mean? surely, i'm taking it the wrong way.

just watched the pepper spraying of UC demonstrators
 

That was hard to watch. I winched a few times, but when someone started to yell "These are children, These are children", I became emotional. I only saw three being hauled away (yes, three too many) For the front the police put on, I expected more. The students showed everyone its a US against THEM situation, and you saw how the police
backed off as the crowd chanted louder and the peaceful demonstration became an anti police protest. That could have been ugly. I also saw alot of hesitation on the faces and the body language of the police. Clearly they were struggling with what was going on here.

Police are only allowed to use the amount of force that is neccessary, and NOT A BIT MORE. NOT A BIT MORE.

Thank you for posting this. Ugly as it was, I needed to see it.

I totally agree, and I hope this can be used to the 99%'s advantage.
Police are agents of state power, and state power has become "1%ers power". We are in an asymmetrical power/resource relationship with the police, so hating them or even trying to kill them means that there will be more of them, invested with ever more vicious methods and justification from their bosses.

I think the way to "win" this asymetrical situation is to have the police stop following orders that don't make sense, such as firing weapons at veterans, grannies, young people, or anyone at all.
There's no way a banker is going to go out themselves and fight. I hope we can find a way to have the police see that their orders are unethical. I hope that we can appeal to police offiicers' sense of shared humanity, rather than their survival instincts and sell-defense. Will politicians use our movement as a reason to have a domestic military force? They would be a "jobs with a secure future"- chillingly enough.

I have to deal with this issue of police brutality often, as an activist against it, and with lots of family members who work in law enforcement.
Bishop Oscar Romero is one of my heroes. I refer to him when I deal with my Catholic family:
"“Before an order to kill that a man may give, the law of God
must prevail that says: Thou shalt not kill! No soldier is obliged to
obey an order against the law of God.”

I'm glad you asked me to clarify: I am saying that police brutality is and has been a reality for People of Color, particularly for men of African decent, for centuries in the USA.

Now with all the photos and videos of police brutality against 99% protestors available, I am seeing white people surprised by police brutality, as if it is something brand new. It had never crossed the minds, or the experience, of some white people.

Here's the article on the Up With Chris Hayes site. The video is at the bottom of the page:

http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.co...l-street-video

thanks for clarifying cuz for a sec i was like....oh no she dint! *ghetto neck rolling* and i thought surely i am misunderstanding after having done the online forums thing with you for so many years now.

I'm so glad you know this about me! How is it that we've never gone out dancing? We should have some fun times together....soon, I fear. :fastdraq:

prolly has something to do with being on opposite ends of the country perhaps? :)

Are you two discussing dancing in a time of great social unrest, political upheaval and paradigm shifting?

Well, then, go on with your bad selves. :-)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...asv-MpyJPVGcHQ

Hears Janis Joplin music :wine:

Don't even go there, P.
I might incite global revolution just so I can bedazzle you with my "BUTCH DYKE DOUGIE".

“Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” - Thomas Jefferson

Actually if you go back to the 60's......it was white folk who were also beat, gassed, arrested during political protests and they were surprised then....

white folk in the US have no oral tradition to pass down the reality of oppression by the owner, landed class........it's no surprise that some are shocked today....

as Sonny & Cher sang

"and the beat goes on'

i'm not even gonna ask what that is. i'm picturing something like out of West Side Story though

Yes, you aren't too far off. Not only will I do the "butch dyke dougie" but will also treat the 'old world order' to this:
An elaborate production number; a kick line of Femmes in sequin gowns and elbow gloves, me-- ascending from a pomegranate-shaped pool of sychronized swimmers in a top hat and tails, disco balls, full orchestra, AND the ghost of Celia Cruz.

Doesn't that vision make you just want to speed the day!

Ps: you can read me like a book! I love that Jets' finger-snap walk!

Republicans blast Occupy movement at debate
AFP – 4 hrs ago



Republicans candidates vying for their party's nomination lambasted the Occupy Wall Street movement on Saturday, at a debate organized by Christian groups.

"Go get a job right after you take a bath," Newt Gingrich told the audience at the "Thanksgiving Family Forum," when asked about activists protesting over the last two months in major US cities including New York and Washington.

The protesters seek an overhaul to what they see as major socioeconomic inequalities fostered by mainstream US politics and systems of finance.

Another frontrunner in the race, former pizza boss Herman Cain, slammed the OWS movement by claiming that "freedom without responsibility is immoral."The forum, organized by a number of right-wing Christian organizations, was attended by other candidates Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Ron Paul, and Rick Santorum, were present Saturday to this discussion.

Only Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, both Mormons and more moderate candidates, did not attend.
Iowa is a key state for the Republican primary, as it holds the first in a series of primary votes on January 3, in the battle to face incumbent Barack Obama in the general election next November.


i highlighted the classy bits in red and funny bits in blue

How Did They Project That Occupy Wall Street Message on the Verizon Building?
By Dashiell Bennett | The Atlantic Wire – Fri, Nov 18, 2011




..One of the most impressive moments of yesterday's Occupy Wall Street marches, was when someone projected a giant 99% "bat signal" on the side of one of lower Manhattan's skyscrapers as thousands of people swarmed across the nearby Brooklyn Bridge. New Yorkers know the Verizon Building as the windowless, concrete eyesore that looms over the bridge and mars the downtown skyline, so seeing it used is such a way certainly got a lot of attention.


But who did it? And how were they able to project the stories-high words on the building just as the protesters made their way over the span? Boing Boing's Xeni Jardin spoke to Max Read, one of the Occupy Wall Street organizer who pulled together a team of friends and artists that arranged for the projection to happen.


Read says he got help from two video projection artists, Max Nova and JR Skola, who used a 12,000 lumen projector and programmed the software needed to properly program the message. He also found an apartment in a nearby housing project from where they safely angle the projection on to the building. He says he offered to rent the apartment from a single mother of three, but when she found out what they wanted to use it for — and saw what happened during the eviction of Zuccotti Park — she refused to take their money.


You can read more detail in the full interview at Boing Boing and see a video of the full message below:

Related: Bloomberg Says Unions Supporting Protesters Ought to Be Thanking Banks


here's the link for a nice view of the Verizon building: (i wish i knew how to embed)

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxG4g62rnd8"]Occupy Wall Street 99% Spotlight Signal #N17 #OWS #OccupyEverything - YouTube[/nomedia]

and this was all i could find on this:


UC Davis launches probe after pepper spray video
The chancellor of the University of California, Davis said Saturday that the school was launching an investigation after "chilling" video images surfaced online showing an officer using pepper spray on several protesters as they sit passively with their arms interlocked.

So it appears that Davis CA has a 5 member (districtless) city council, and all city departments answer to them.
Here's the plan UC Davis students: Register, then vote every one of those current members out. Create a citizen police review board with investigative and legal teeth. Then hire a police chief who wouldn't give orders to pepper spray sitting students.

It's great that they don't have districts- in many college towns they slice off students from having political power. I'm glad elections are coming up in 2012!

I want Phase 2 NOW

tired of turf wars..........I live in Oakland...it's part of my everyday life...

the difference now is that white folk are involved in a turf war over white folk land...........city hall, wall street.........whatever..........wait what year is it.....the 60's

Phase 2..........get the fucking money out of politics

http://thisweekinblackness.com/wp-co...E5-494x329.jpg

Protect and Serve



Here's the "gem" being referred to

Police Defend Use Of Force On ‘Occupy UC Davis’

The watching crowd began shouting chants of “Shame on you” and “Let them go,” while dozens of students recorded the encounter on cell phone cameras.

“I don’t think that was warranted,” one protester told CBS13. “It was non-violent protests, we were sitting, linking arms.”

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

Authorities are still reviewing video of the incident, Spicuzza added.

Officers left the quad after making 10 arrests, nine of which were UC Davis students. Law enforcement retreated out of the field in a direction that was not obstructed by sitting protesters.

Protesters vowed to remain in the quad and reestablish their camp Friday evening, but as of 10:00 p.m. Friday, no demonstrators or tents were visible in the area.

Holy Crap.
I had no idea that campus police have weapons and riot gear! I thought they issued parking tickets.
I thought surely they must be real cops with a real agenda to brutalize students.
Wow. All all universities like that?
Sad thing is that it might be harder to throw out a campus regime than a municipal one.
I'm so sorry, UC Davis!

UC Berkeley English Professor Celeste Langan (1st woman pulled) offers out her wrists and tells police they can arrest her -- they yank her out by the hair and do the same with two students. The police were intent on destroying the Occupy Cal encampment tents. Later in the video, a woman is pinned to a bush and being batoned, and a man trying to rescue her gets beaten by police.

Grrr....

ain't it hard to be peaceful.........

what kind of revolution do we want?

edited to add: it looks no different from the 60's or the 90's (HIV/AIDS protests)...........so what

a plate full of HATE
 

:hamactor:what the republican party has to say

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/1...u-take-a-bath/

1000 students-perfect silence for Chancellor Katehi. One minute in the woman accompanying her said to a reporter asking Katehi if she was still afraid of the students that they (meaning her and Katehi) asked for it to be silent. Nice try. Beautiful statement by the students.

she looks pretty somber

I almost felt sorry for her. She does look rocked.

It's a matter of opinion but worthy of the read for sure.

According to The American Prospect here are
The five most important OWS pieces this week:


http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst...t/?page=entire

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst...t/?page=entire

http://www.thenation.com/article/164...t-pay-dont-pay

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/...ep_no_problem/

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/17/occu...ved/singleton/

i don't feel sorry for her. she should be outraged and she should be filing complaints with authorities and she should be organizing campus cops to protect the students from that ever happening again.

Today is the most discouraged I can remember ever being.
I did not expect that Halliburton/KBR/Blackwater would be the police force in the USA this soon.

I am sure that the "private security firm" hired by the owners of Zucotti Park is a KBR spawn, and if it isn't already, it will be this week.

And campus security? What with all those dangerous students sitting down, I'm sure KBR sees each college campus as a "market". They can point to the successful "business model" they've developed in Iraq to 'quell unrest'.

So it's come to this, quicker than I thought.
Sad irony that this country makes students go deeply into debt to learn a skill, but billions of tax dollars were given to Cheney and Co to learn how to beat and kill defenseless people fighting for self-determination.

I look back at the work I've done against police brutality and the prison industrial complex and it almost looks quaint.
I suppose if I was smarter, I should either get a job with Halliburton/KBR/Blackwater/whatever they are called now-- or buy stock in them.

Anybody want to get a bourbon?