Originally Posted by dreadgeek (Post 448009)

The other day I read something (I forget where) that has made me ponder whether or not we on the Left aren't hamstringing ourselves in some ways. Part of the problem I see us having in our nation is that, unlike a number of other nations I can name, the rich here do not feel any particular tie to the United States. German companies try to keep a certain percentage of jobs in Germany. Japanese companies behave the same way. As do the French and the British and the South Koreans and the Spanish and the Russians. Not the Americans. Now, is there anyone here who would say that Volkswagen, Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz aren't real companies? Would anyone say that they put out products no one wants or products that are inferior? Would anyone say that Sony or Toshiba aren't real companies? Does anyone think that the people who sit at the apex of any of the above aren't rich beyond the dreams of avarice?

Without diving into an orgy of protectionism I would like to see a bit more economic nationalism on the part of American corporations. I would like to see our tax code restructured in order to make it clear that we value job creation *here* not in Singapore. I'm sure the Singaporeans are a noble people with a distinguished history and given a choice between my next door neighbor getting a job building, say, solar panels in Portland and someone in Singapore getting that same job, for the same company, but being paid a fraction of the salary with the profits not being repatriated to the United States, I'll take my neighbor getting the job, thank you very much. I think we can restructure the business tax code to embody that ethic. Imagine, for instance, the definition of a US company (and thus domestic products) being something like this:

An American company is defined as any LLC or LLP or other chartered business which has its corporate headquarters in the United States of America and that employs 80% of its workforce domestically. There is a tax rate for American companies and then there's a tax rate for foreign companies. If My Widgets, Inc. moves its headquarters to the Cayman Islands because of the loose banking laws, they are no longer an American company. Their products are now imports not domestic products. They are taxed at the higher rate for foreign companies and their goods have whatever kind of import or excise taxes that foreign goods have. This would make the widgets from MWI far *less* competitive.

Now, has the government told the owners of MWI where they have to put their factory or their HQ? Nope. They are free to move their business anywhere they wish. They are also free to pay the consequences for doing so.

The Right loves to talk a lot about personal responsibility and 'moral hazard' but that is always and forever a one-way street. If we have long-term unemployment benefits that creates a moral hazard. If we have a welfare system at all that denies personal responsibility. But for some reason, the moment we are talking about businesses there's no more responsibility and there's no more moral hazard. Suddenly businesses will always do the right thing in all circumstances regardless of what their actions actually are. How do we know those are the right things, because businesses do them.

If personal responsibility is good enough to cudgel the high school dropout with then I think it's good enough to cudgel the MBA from the Wharton school who gets it into his head that it would be a great idea to buy up company X, strip it to the bone, move the HQ to someplace where they won't have to pay taxes, move whatever is left of the manufacturing operations to some other nation where they can pay workers $2 a week, and in the process completely obliterate the economy of an American city. If we can say that unemployment benefits should be limited lest they be abused, then we can equally say that the tax code shouldn't be an invitation to ship good, middle-class jobs overseas lest business people be tempted to do what we've told them, through the medium of our laws, is perfectly acceptable. I don't see how we can do that without appealing to a sense of 'you take care of your countrymen first' across the board.

Originally Posted by persiphone (Post 447919)

Originally Posted by AtLast (Post 448173)

If someone can post informative links about what happened in Oakland and the injured young man, please do.

Many conflicting stories floating around about how it came to happen. From the cops being pelted with paint, rocks, etc. when they asked demonstrators to get back on the sidewalk- to no one was doing a thing to provoke any police action. Also, it took much longer than it should have to get that kid to a medical facility due to chaos. Some of the folks that were trying to help him were shot at too, while trying to carry him closer to where medics could treat him??

I have had it with these "non-lethal" weapons claims. If you shoot someone with one at point blank range and hit certain areas, they can kill. This kid has a fractured skull ans last I heard (6 am) is in critical condition.

I know the blame is going to back and forth- what I am interested in is how we can demonstrate our dissent and not have this happen. And no, that won't include just letting people camp and march where they want. There needs to be ER services available, specified public free speech areas and common sense. Permits include services and resources for our right to assemble and protest as well as safety routes for ER vehicles.

Protests can be very important in effecting change, but violence and chaos do nothing to effect change. The 99% includes people from the far left to moderates. Even folks that have some conservative views- we are all getting screwed by the 1%. In fact, this is the first time I really seen a movement marching in the streets in which people that most of the time would not cross paths, have differing political views, sexualities, as well as educational levels or professions and differ in race out there together. In some cities fire fighters and police officers have joined in. Actually, I like this about the OWS movement- it does represent the 99%- the whole point of the movement.

Originally Posted by Ebon (Post 448175)

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-...rotest-2011-10


Scott Olsen survived two tours of Iraq, but his life could be over after being critically injured by a police projectile at Occupy Oakland, The Guardian reports. He's 24 years old.

As we know, Occupy Oakland got incredibly ugly this week as police tried to remove protesters from their camp in front of City Hall by using tear gas, fire crackers, and rubber bullets.

Olsen suffered a head injury on Tuesday night, and is now in critical condition in Oakland's Highland Hospital. Jay Finneburgh, a photographer on the scene, managed to witness and take pictures of the incident. Police policy specifically prohibits the firing of these weapons at a person's head.

"This poor guy was right behind me when he was hit in the head with a police projectile. He went down hard and did not get up," Finneburgh wrote.

At first, Doctors told Olsen's friends that he was in critical, but stable condition. Now they're being told that his skull has been fractured and his brain is beginning to swell. Neurologists are in the process of determining whether or not he will require surgery.

According to Keith Shannon, a friend who served with Olsen during his time in Iraq, Olsen was hit in the head with a tear gas or smoke canister, and he has the scar on his head to prove it.

Meanwhile, Oakland police admit that they used tear gas and baton rounds, but have denied the use of flash bang grenades. Protesters, however, say they saw police use them, and the more video that comes out, the harder it is to believe the police.

Olsen hails from Wisconsin, served tours of Iraq in 2006 and 2007, and is active in both Veterans for Peace and Iraq Veterans Against the War.

You can see a video of him collapsing and injured below.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-...#ixzz1c0pcVmVh




Here is the video also. It shows the police throwing a flash bomb right in the middle of them while they are trying to help him.

Originally Posted by AtLast (Post 448173)

If someone can post informative links about what happened in Oakland and the injured young man, please do.

Many conflicting stories floating around about how it came to happen. From the cops being pelted with paint, rocks, etc. when they asked demonstrators to get back on the sidewalk- to no one was doing a thing to provoke any police action. Also, it took much longer than it should have to get that kid to a medical facility due to chaos. Some of the folks that were trying to help him were shot at too, while trying to carry him closer to where medics could treat him??

.

Originally Posted by MsMerrick (Post 448312)

I posted such links yesterday evening and yes, you can see very clearly , people rush back to help the young man lying on the ground..and a Police person, lobs a Flash Bomb DIRECTLY into the middle of teh group trying to help! Very Al-Quaeda esque ....! Attack one person or thing, then lob another attack when people rush to help...

Originally Posted by nowandthen (Post 448193)