Yes, but it's so surprising when it happens to you. The U.S. government has been doing it to everyone else for years but when they turn on you it's always a shock.

I posted an article entitled "OWS, Police Brutality, and the War on Terror: An Empire State of Mind" that talks about when them chickens come home to roost.

i know. i read it. :) and very good points btw. i'm actually not as shocked as some others.

It is getting out of hand. My concern is that it will continue to get worse. No one seems to know what to do to stop it.

This a n event, hopefully you can read it , its on FB.. If you are anywhere near the NYC area, join in...
All Women's Assembly to End Violence Against Women + March to OWS!

I personally believe that it is one of those events in history which must be held with the highest of reverence lest it ever happen again. Tossing the terms around in lesser instances cheapens the horror of the atrocities committed in Nazi Germany. IMHO.

While I believe we need to be ever vigilant and I do believe there is a faction in this country that wants to push us to that direction, I also have faith in this country as a whole. I have a deep faith in the occupiers.

If history does indeed repeat itself, let us not forget, the hippies were right. The Gulf of Tonkin never happened, it was the figment of the imagination of an over excited radioman...according to Robert McNamara himself! Vietnam was a sham. A political sham. So is what is happening now, but I don't believe we are heading down the road to Hitler's Germany as long as we stand up and say "No!" Not as long as we still have judges and lawyers and Congress members that stand up and say "No!" with us. Right now we do. We have people in government who see the wrong. If the other half of this country would stop watching Faux News and start paying attention we might get somewhere.

I couldn't agree with this more. It's not just lesser instances. What the Germans did was on a whole different scale. They committed mass murder and were the most blatantly racist and oppressive regime in modern history.

What is going on today in the US is a crime; our "democracy" is a sham; our civil liberties are threatened and our freedoms are infringed upon. But we are not in danger of being rounded up into camps and being executed for our political beliefs. If it comes to a day where we are in danger of that, then I will say this is like the Nazis.

current genocides happening right now~


In 2004, Yad Vashem, in response to the BBC documentary, "Access to Evil", which includes witness testimonies from camp survivors and a former guard of gas chambers and mass killings occurring systematically in the camps, called on the international community in 2004 to investigate “political genocide” in North Korea, yet no substantial action has been taken to this day to interven.

In September 2011, the Harvard International Review published an article which argued that North Korea was violating the UN Genocide Convention in every possible way, through its systematic killing of half-Chinese babies and religious groups

The ruling military regime in Burma is one of the world’s most oppressive and abusive. Currently, the Burmese government is involved in a military campaign against the largest indigenous ethnic group in Eastern Burma, the Karen. The Karen practice Christianity, whereas Burma is a mostly Buddhist nation. The militarized government has developed plans to eliminate those who do not fit in to what is thought of as being “Burmese.” Many Karen accuse the Burmese government of “ethnic cleansing” due to major counter-insurgency campaigns that have led to widespread mass atrocities against the Karen people. Such atrocities include summary execution, severe torture and rape, as well as forced labor, extortion and displacement. Aid agencies estimate that more than 200,000 Karen have been driven from their homes during the decades of conflict.

The “Darfur Genocide” refers to the current mass slaughter and rape of Darfuri men, women and children in Western Sudan. The killings began in 2003 and continue still today, as the first genocide in the 21st century.

The genocide is being carried out by a group of government-armed and funded Arab militias known as the Janjaweed (which loosely translates to ‘devils on horseback’). The Janjaweed systematically destroy Darfurians by burning villages, looting economic resources, polluting water sources, and murdering, raping, and torturing civilians. These militias are historic rivals of the main rebel groups, the Sudanese Liberation Movement (SLM), and the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM). As of today, over 480,000 people have been killed, and over 2.8 million people are displaced.

Since 1996, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC; Congo) has been embroiled in violence that has killed as many as 5.4 million people. The conflict has been the world’s bloodiest since World War II. The First and Second Congo Wars, which sparked the violence, involved multiple foreign armies and investors from Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Angola, Namibia, Chad, Libya and Sudan, among others, and has been so devastating that it is sometimes called the “African World War.”

Fighting continues in the eastern parts of the country, destroying infrastructure, causing physical and psychological damage to civilians, and creating human rights violations on a mass scale. Rape is being used as a weapon of war, and large-scale plunder and murder are also occurring as part of efforts to displace people on resource-rich land.

Today, most of the fighting is taking place in North and South Kivu, on the DRC/Rwanda border. Some fighting is political, resulting from unrest caused by Hutu refugees from the Rwandan genocide now living in DRC, while other fighting results from an international demand for natural resources. DRC has large quantities of gold, copper, diamonds, and coltan (a mineral used in cell phones), which many parties desire to control for monetary reasons. However, money from the sales of these resources has not reached average citizens. Currently the education, healthcare, legal, and road systems are in shambles.


Since 1991, clan warfare has besieged Somalia. The United Nations has called the current situation in Somalia the “world’s worst humanitarian disaster.” At the end of January 2009, Sheikh Sharif Ahmed was elected President of Somalia with the hope that his administration will bring stability to Somalia and implement the Djibouti Peace Process of 2000. However, violence has continued unabated. At the end of 2009, nearly 700,000 Somalis were under the responsibility of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, constituting the third largest refugee group in the world after war-afflicted Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively.



and here's the link in case anyone is interested~

http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/about-us

instead we have for profit prisons *shudder* and that horrid guantanamo, where your rights and all moral reason go right out the window.

edited to add....you don't need to be foreign and/or of middle eastern descent to be sent to guantanamo, incidentally.

Persiphone, I didn't say that genocide isn't happening in other countries. It is. Arguably we just deposed two ruthless dictators that were doing exactly that. But that's not the subject here. The subject is occupy wall street and the references are not appropriate to what the police are doing.

Are the police breaking the law? Yes. Will there be repercussions from it? Probably. But they aren't rounding up OWS protesters in the US and putting them in death camps. And outrage still remains at the brutality. When that stops we have a problem.

i didn't say you didn't. my point is simply that genocide is not unique to the holocaust and i'd also like to point out that the infrastructure is certainly in place here by means of for profit prisons and the existence of guantanomo as well as the existence of The Patriot Act. all i'm saying is that while i'm not sure if something along the lines of the holocuast is possible here, i'm definitely NOT saying that something along those lines is NOT possible either. it may not happen identically, but i'm not willing to say that something similar could NOT happen. and i think that it's something that people should be aware of. we clearly don't have the rights we thought we had even in the aftermath of things like for profit prisons, guatanomo, and The Patriot Act and that's apparent by the seemingly endless supply of videos of police brutality on protesters across America. it's just something to think about. i don't think there should be heirarchies of importance on genocides that occur on this planet. because they are all important and all horrific. i don't see one as being less than the other unless you're talking strictly in terms of body count.

That depends on who you are. Something like 10% of black men in their 20's are incarcerated. A disproportionate number of those executed are black men.

is this where i can bitch about methods of voter suppression? :hamactor:

Back to the subject of corporate greed....
 

A huge part of the financial crisis of 2008 was an out of control derivatives market. Derivatives are basically bets that corporations make on whether the markets will go up or down. It's WAY more complicated than that, but that's the best I can do in one sentence. In the late 90's a financial regulator in the Clinton administration tried to impose regulations on over the counter derivatives, and here's what happened:


The scary fact is that the Dodd-Frank bill didn't include any regulation of the derivatives market. So basically, there is nothing in place to prevent the financial collapse of 2008 from happening again just as easily. Gah!

That's what I never understand. If we allow our government to do it to someone else what makes us think they won't do it to us?

Where can I find your article? Is it the one on Common Dreams?

post #1106 on page 56 :)

Yes, bitch!! Right now there are many voter suppression campaigns going on in many states, mainly via the Republican party.

The OWS movement ought to be moving us all to action, including fighting these efforts. There is a part of me that agrees with Corkey about how many years the 98/99% did not remain active in our democracy. We do have to participate in a democracy in order for it to represent us.

As much as I hate to say it- the Tea Party has gained power because it decided not to stand by and allow government run without considering the core values of those that "belong" to it. It went right into our political system via our democratic vehicles of organizing and voting in blocks. It has redefined conservatism in the US to an extreme that big business simply loves.

The work we need to do is far beyond protesting in the streets.

I think maybe Nazi/Gestapo references don't translate well. I've been tossing this around in my head trying to put my finger on it. Nazi Germany is synonymous with genocide. I don't see genocide as an issue for the U.S. At least not in that a particular group would be targeted, other than dissenters. If the elimination of dissenting voices can be called a kind of genocide then perhaps we could worry about it.

I think what we are heading toward are police forces more like the Tonton Macoutes, the Haitian paramilitary force created by François 'Papa Doc' Duvalier, rather than the Gestapo. That we are looking at evolving paramilitary police forces around the country cannot be denied. That they seek to silence us and make protesting extremely costly is also without doubt. As things worsen and as more people feel the need to point that out, we may see our newly evolving police state turn deadly. The more clearly those who control the paramilitary police understand how easily it is to to shut us down, the more they get away with, the more violence goes unanswered by our elected officials or by anyone at all really, the closer we come to living in fear of our very own Tonton Macoutes.

Actually there were 2 reported incidents in the Gulf of Tonkin in Aug of 64. The first one did happen and the second one did not happen. It was the second incident that resulted in Congress giving Johnson the power to really go to Vietnam. Years later it finally came out that the second incident never occurred.

So yes there was a real Gulf of Tonkin incident (North Vietnamese navy firing on a US warship in the Gulf) and a fabricated incident a couple of days later.

The Super Committee is deadlocked - no surprise there. The triggers that are set in place won't actually happen until 2013 - well after the 2012 election. So they have another year or so to fight over the budget and avoid the triggers. Talk about kicking the can down the road! *shakes head*

sorry if this has already been posted....looks like beating and arrests aren't just for dirty hippies, the unemployed, the eldery, and the homeless...

http://morallowground.com/2011/11/15...eviction-raid/

Yes, anyone out there protesting could be subject to the insane methods being used by police.

And students that have paid tuiton, will be in debt when they graduate into an economy in which there are few jobs available to them. They are being pepper sprayed on campus while they are demonstrating passively and without malice.

I know that because I teach community college students, I have a bias, but, in CA, the rise in costs for students throughout our college and university systems has doubled in 1 academic year!! New increases are in the works as well.

A huge number of college students that were key in electing Obama 3 years ago will be finishing college by the time of the general election. Will they be supporting him??? They don't exactly have a lot to look forward to starting out. I graduated during a recession and when Jimmy Carter was in office. I didn't have many options and knew I would not be employed in the area I just earned a degree in, but, there were many more jobs available to grads then that they could take and build experience in the workplace and later do what they studied for. This is not true for our young people today unless they are in science and math and even then, the competition is great.

So many of my students were laid off and are seeking new employment skills. They have kids and are often working part-time to make ends meet. Some are returning vets that are not finding work. Community colleges have high numbers of POC also and are often the heart of smaller towns.

I see so much depression and fear about the future in these students. Yes, I eventually was able to work in areas I wanted to, but I don't feel optimism about this for kids in college right now. I have never felt this negative about this.

Credo Action in Response to the UC Davis Pepper Spraying
 

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/...x&rc=confemail

Tell the University of California: Ban the use of chemical agents and physical violence against peaceful protester


Last week at the University of California at Davis, campus police dressed in riot gear sprayed nonviolent protesters with chemical agents. A dramatic video captures the scene. The protesters kneeling. Arms linked. They posed no threat to the officers. The officers standing above them. Dousing them with pepper spray.1

Social movements in this country have a long tradition of using civil disobedience to challenge injustice. Protesters with a deep commitment to social change peacefully disobey an order to disperse and the police must make mass arrests in order to end the protest.

What the authorities at the University of California have done is employ the use of chemical agents to stop protesters from exercising their First Amendment rights. They clearly fear that the size, commitment and growing power of the Occupy protests is so great that they will fill up their jails -- not on one day, but every day -- if they want to put a stop to the movement.

Tell Mark G. Yudof, president of the University of California, and Sherry Lansing, chairperson of the University of California Board of Regents, to protect protesters' First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble, and ban the use of chemical agents and/or physical violence against nonviolent protesters on all University of California campuses.

Outrageously, the chancellor of the University of California at Davis, Linda P.B. Katehi, initially defended the actions of the officers but today finally placed the chief of the campus police on administrative leave pending a review. The UC Davis faculty association is calling for Katehi's resignation. 2

This is not just happening at the campus in Davis. In Berkeley, Robert Hass, a 70-year-old former poet laureate of the United States and Pulitzer Prize winner, described how he and his wife were beaten by police while peacefully assembling in solidarity with campus Occupy protesters.

In an op-ed piece in the New York Times, Hass notes that the violent actions against peaceful protesters on the Berkeley campus are thrown into particularly high relief as the protests there are taking place where the Free Speech Movement was launched almost 50 years ago, quoting Mario Savio's famous call to action: "There is a time ... when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part." 3

The University of California Board of Regents has ultimate responsibility for the actions of authorities at all University of California campuses, including Davis and Berkeley. The president and chairperson of this board must take decisive action to protect the First Amendment rights of student, faculty and the campus communities -- rights that are so clearly under violent attack.

Tell Mark G. Yudof, president of the University of California, and Sherry Lansing, chairperson of the University of California Board of Regents, to protect protesters' First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble, and ban the use of chemical agents and/or physical violence against nonviolent protesters on all University of California campuses.

From Mahatma Gandhi to Martin Luther King, Jr. to Mario Savio, nonviolent civil disobedience is an time-honored form of protest. If authorities allow police in riot gear to simply use chemical agents and violence, instead of arrests, to remove peaceful protesters respectfully decline to follow an order to disperse, then they will not only be taking away our fundamental rights, they will implicitly be encouraging more violent forms of resistance.

The community response to the events in Davis have been overwhelming. In the coming days we may see resignations at the highest level. But what's at stake is not just the job of the chancellor of the University of California at Davis or its campus police chief. It's about whether the right to free speech on campus will endure. That's why we need the President and the Chairperson of the UC Board of Regents to protect the rights of protesters on every UC campus, and to set a precedent for universities not just in California but nationwide.

Back when I first went to a community college (1989), tuition was $5 per unit.

For anyone who thinks that the protestors don't know why they are protesting:

No, apparently they are also for poet laureates as well. Robert Hass, former poet laureate of the United States, tells about his experience at Berkley.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/21-5



But you know we could post article after article, we could fill this thread with pictures, videos and stories about peaceful protestors being attacked, shot with less lethal weapons, clubbed, gassed, pepper sprayed and otherwise brutalized but to what end? The most important question of all is what can we do about it. How can we stop this? How can we make our elected officials protect our right to speak out and to engage in non violent protests? What can we do to stop them from silencing our voices? And why have we heard nothing at all from our president?

Here are quotes from the president and the secretary of state that are filled with concern for the peaceful protestors in Egypt. What about United States citizens? In the words of Obama the U.S. will stand up for human rights everywhere. Everywhere apparently but here at home in the place where he is president.

It's kind of scary to realize that these two people are considered to be liberals. They are two politicians that we would expect would defend human rights. And they do. Just not ours.

President Obama:
"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protestors.
The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere."

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton:
"We are deeply concerned about the use of violence by Egyptian police and security forces against protesters, and we call on the Egyptian government to do everything in its power to restrain the security forces."

Here at home not a word. They are as silent as they wish us to be.

Yes, the Obama administration's silence about police violence against protestors here at home really irks me. It clearly shows who side he is on. I am sad that I supported him in 2008.

Something that concerns me about all the press and uproar about police brutality is that having all the focus be on that takes the focus off of the reason people are protesting in the first place, with respect to national media coverage. However, I doubt the national media cares much to cover the reasons for the protests. In fact, their favorite way to deal with that is to say it's unfocused and there is no real message. Which is bullshit of course.

Did you expect anything different? The media is corporate owned. They aren't going to support OWS. They aren't going to allow them to wake up the sleeping masses.

Well, I don't want to see Newt Ginrich as president- yesterday when asked about OWS he said he thinks all the protesters should get a job- then added, "First they should take a bath and then get a job." Frankly, since I began voting back in the early 70's there has never been a viable candidate that totally aligned with my political convictions. Not one. And Al Gore would have won in 2000 if not for Ralph Nader, it was so close. And I couldn't get behind Nader even though I was registered Green back then.

I have heard Obama speak in support of the issues OWS is bringing to the surface, many times. And to be honest, I am much more upset with Governors not speaking up and out about the police within their state- they are the ones that have more direct power what is going on in their state. What the hell can Obama do on a state level with police? I am quite upset with Gov Brown here in CA.

Al Gore would have won if the conservative Supreme Court would have upheld the constitution and allowed the recount to happen. Ralph Nader had nothing to do with that.

As for what Obama can do about violence by state police against peaceful protestors? Well, he can speak out for one thing. He hasn't said one damn word about it.

Yes, I left the first one out because we went to war over the second one, which didn't happen. But I got a lot of butch on butch love for your history schoolin'