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-   -   Bravehearts: FTMs who cannot or choose not to medically transition (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412)

Soon 03-04-2010 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocalipstic (Post 60905)
Right, so sorry.
I will back out of course :)

It just seemed that different people had definitions for themselves.

Thanks for the reminder....off I go. :)
oops! me too.

Liam 03-04-2010 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocalipstic (Post 60905)
Right, so sorry.
I will back out of course :)

It just seemed that different people had definitions for themselves.

Thanks for the reminder....off I go. :)
Apocalipstic, I didn't say only FTMs could post in this thread. I was talking about the topic, not the requirements for posting in the thread.

I thought you brought up a very valid point, about definitions. I have learned to ask what someone means when they use the word transgender, because it does mean different things to different folks.

Liam 03-04-2010 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam (Post 60894)
Quite.

Just a gentle reminder that this is a thread about FTMs who cannot or choose not to medically transition. I'm not saying that all but FTMs are excluded, but rather that is the focus of this particular thread.
I tried to be very clear with my original post, that I was talking about the topic and not those posting.

I am sorry that HowSoonIsNow and Apocalipstic misunderstood.

Apocalipstic 03-04-2010 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam (Post 60913)
I tried to be very clear with my original post, that I was talking about the topic and not those posting.

I am sorry that HowSoonIsNow and Apocalipstic misunderstood.

So sorry, I wondered about posting in a Trans thread anyway, so just assumed I should not have been.

Either way great thread! :)

Queerasfck 03-04-2010 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam (Post 60913)
I tried to be very clear with my original post, that I was talking about the topic and not those posting.

I am sorry that HowSoonIsNow and Apocalipstic misunderstood.

I am glad you clarified that Liam. When I first read the post I thought that's what you meant as well. I think it's very important to have these kinds of conversations in threads. If someone has questions and they come in and ask it in a respectful manner it can really be conductive to a better understanding of one another. All should be welcome to participate.

AtLast 03-04-2010 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson (Post 60843)
AtLast, the part of your post that I underlined, I am confused or perhaps it is just a disagreement. In my understanding I thought to be transgender means you transgress gender lines. I consider myself to be a third gender. I do see myself as Transgender but not Transsexual. Yes, I think I hold ideas very similar to Blue but I am taking the step to legally change my gender. I know I was born into the body of a female and without T or surgery represented as masculine. I too like you do not believe masculinity is strictly the pervue of men.

I think many of us here share similar ideas but we just go down different paths to come to the same or similar beliefs, ideas. I hope you take this post in the spirit of which it is meant to be. Only a difference of opinion. Not a mean spirited calling out.
No, don't see a call-out at all. or, mean-spirited in any way.

Actually, we are in agreement as to the fluidity of gender as well as differing modifications one might want to (or not) made. And there is the semantics tangle, too. I would use transcend rather than transgress or transition. Transsexual means this to me as well. Transcending (going beyond) the traditional gender binary. For me, within a 3rd gendered context, it is about this for many of us. What I feel happens often is that the 3rd gendered are lumped into some form of transition when that is not what is going on at all. Transgender theory/studies (along withTranssexuality constructs) seems like something that can promote understanding and hopefully, enlightenment. Especially for kids that fall somewhere on the gender spectrum and not within the traditional gender binary.

In thinking about body modification, hormone treatment and gender reassignment of birth records and name changes, I feel like this is as diverse as the individuals embarking on some or all of these journeys. I have listened both professionally and as a friend to these personal stories for 35 years now. I honestly can't say that I could put any kind of these thoughts into any kind of specific grouping. All are different in significant and personal ways.

Something that occurs to me as well is about butches that desire or have top surgery done and it really not being different overall than why women have done cosmetic breast surgery forever - whether its reduction or augmentation. It seems like it is simply about personal body alignment. Sure, for many, it is part of transitioning in some form than other people identifying along the gender spectrum.

Something else that comes up for me related to all of this is the almost non-existant conversations about MtF's. But, I guess this is for another thread! Just feels like we don't embrace the significance in gender theory of feminine transcendance in re-shaping the binary. There are lots of these same gender variables that relates to femmes as well. To me, it touches everyone.

Make sense?

Gender is both complex and fascinating and sometimes I wonder if I will ever have a complete understanding of it!

Also, I have to wonder if some of my sensitivity about the 3rd-gendered being relegated to trans status isn't more deeply related to my own negative dealings with non-queer lesbians that are transphopic and not related to this community at all.

Post Script- glad to see the actual definitions concerning gender posted!

Greyson 03-04-2010 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLastHome (Post 60929)
No, don't see a call-out at all. or, mean-spirited in any way.

Actually, we are in agreement as to the fluidity of gender as well as differing modifications one might want to (or not) made. And there is the semantics tangle, too. I would use transcend rather than transgress or transition. Transsexual means this to me as well. Transcending (going beyond) the traditional gender binary. For me, within a 3rd gendered context, it is about this for many of us. What I feel happens often is that the 3rd gendered are lumped into some form of transition when that is not what is going on at all. Transgender theory/studies (along withTranssexuality constructs) seems like something that can promote understanding and hopefully, enlightenment. Especially for kids that fall somewhere on the gender spectrum and not within the traditional gender binary.

In thinking about body modification, hormone treatment and gender reassignment of birth records and name changes, I feel like this is as diverse as the individuals embarking on some or all of these journeys. I have listened both professionally and as a friend to these personal stories for 35 years now. I honestly can't say that I could put any kind of these thoughts into any kind of specific grouping. All are different in significant and personal ways.

Something that occurs to me as well is about butches that desire or have top surgery done and it really not being different overall than why women have done cosmetic breast surgery forever - whether its reduction or augmentation. It seems like it is simply about personal body alignment. Sure, for many, it is part of transitioning in some form than other people identifying along the gender spectrum.

Something else that comes up for me related to all of this is the almost non-existant conversations about MtF's. But, I guess this is for another thread! Just feels like we don't embrace the significance in gender theory of feminine transcendance in re-shaping the binary. There are lots of these same gender variables that relates to femmes as well. To me, it touches everyone.

Make sense?

Gender is both complex and fascinating and sometimes I wonder if I will ever have a complete understanding of it!

Also, I have to wonder if some of my sensitivity about the 3rd-gendered being relegated to trans status isn't more deeply related to my own negative dealings with non-queer lesbians that are transphopic and not related to this community at all.

Post Script- glad to see the actual definitions concerning gender posted!
Thanks for attempting to offer more clarification. All of this is very interesting stuff. I guess perhaps this discussion should go into another thread. ( I do not believe that all posts should be specific to the initial post starting the thread. But not all feel this way.)

I think the notion that perhaps some of your thinking could be related to some transphobic stuff is a very brave statement to make. Yet, shows you are open to thinking, exploring, learning, relearning. Thanks.

AtLast 03-04-2010 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyson (Post 60934)
Thanks for attempting to offer more clarification. All of this is very interesting stuff. I guess perhaps this discussion should go into another thread. ( I do not believe that all posts should be specific to the initial post starting the thread. But not all feel this way.)

I think the notion that perhaps some of your thinking could be related to some transphobic stuff is a very brave statement to make. Yet, shows you are open to thinking, exploring, learning, relearning. Thanks.
Have to catch-up with the newer posts... about thread intent and this discussion. No, don't want to derail.

The statements about the transphobic lesbians were about me getting very negative stuff from non-queer lesbians (mainly a couple across the street from me) about my being a butch and their mega-jump to I must be trans. Also, they are just plain transphobic (I always get an upset stomach when having trans friends over and they are around). But, I think we all have internalized homo, trans phobic histories. And yes, I have to look at what I am sensitive about here.

Hack 03-07-2010 10:11 AM
I find it interesting to see a thread that is about the courage not to transition, when in my own personal circumstance, I choose not to based on apprehension. My main worry being the impact on my career, which is a very high visibility job in the state where I live. A state, I may add, that is not exactly seen as cutting edge for gender expression/gay rights/queer rights.

Professionally, I use my female name. In the rest of my life, I go by Jake. I've lived in this skin, or sometimes this bubble, my entire life. I'm used to it. I know the landscape of my life better than anyone. I've been inconvenienced because of how I choose to live, but what is more important to me is that I made my choice for me.

And I think everyone in this community -- queer, trans, butch, femme -- is brave. In my opinion, some of the bravest people in this community are the femmes who stand alongside us, and in those lucky cases, who love us. As we are. As we choose to be. As we evolve. As we traverse the landscape of gender fluidity. They are the members of this community who have my utmost respect. And I also respect anyone who lives their life on their terms, according to their own code.

Jake

theoddz 03-07-2010 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack (Post 62281)
I find it interesting to see a thread that is about the courage not to transition, when in my own personal circumstance, I choose not to based on apprehension. My main worry being the impact on my career, which is a very high visibility job in the state where I live. A state, I may add, that is not exactly seen as cutting edge for gender expression/gay rights/queer rights.

Professionally, I use my female name. In the rest of my life, I go by Jake. I've lived in this skin, or sometimes this bubble, my entire life. I'm used to it. I know the landscape of my life better than anyone. I've been inconvenienced because of how I choose to live, but what is more important to me is that I made my choice for me.

And I think everyone in this community -- queer, trans, butch, femme -- is brave. In my opinion, some of the bravest people in this community are the femmes who stand alongside us, and in those lucky cases, who love us. As we are. As we choose to be. As we evolve. As we traverse the landscape of gender fluidity. They are the members of this community who have my utmost respect. And I also respect anyone who lives their life on their terms, according to their own code.

Jake
Jake, I also echo your sentiments here about the Ladies who stand by us being so very worthy of our highest respects and recognition. What many don't know is that these Ladies go through their own "transitions" and "journeys" to become who they are. This is a pretty significant thing, yet it's not widely known or often recognized because the part that always seems to be more "visible" (for lack of a better word) is the journey of the transman. Let me tell you, some/many of these women go through a hell of a transition themselves, towards finding out and then living who THEY are. They don't need us to define who they are.....that is THEIR journey, and every bit a part of who they are.

Thank you, Ladies. :winky::heartbeat::thumbsup::bunchflowers:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

Julien 04-13-2010 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoddz (Post 62306)
Jake, I also echo your sentiments here about the Ladies who stand by us being so very worthy of our highest respects and recognition. What many don't know is that these Ladies go through their own "transitions" and "journeys" to become who they are. This is a pretty significant thing, yet it's not widely known or often recognized because the part that always seems to be more "visible" (for lack of a better word) is the journey of the transman. Let me tell you, some/many of these women go through a hell of a transition themselves, towards finding out and then living who THEY are. They don't need us to define who they are.....that is THEIR journey, and every bit a part of who they are.

Thank you, Ladies. :winky::heartbeat::thumbsup::bunchflowers:

~Theo~ :bouquet:
Theo,
thank you for recognizing the Ladies in our lives. I often wondered and have asked how do our Ladies identify themselves once we transition. I for one don't want them to lose touch with an important part of themselves. I, myself, am attracted to Queer Femme women. I have read that lesbian, bisexual women are not totally supportive the the transgendered person. I personally hope that is not true across the board. I am fortunate that I have found someone who is comfortable with her identity and accepts me for who I am and ultimately will become. I am in transition and will not do a complete FTM. I guess I am what one might call gender queer. I can pass as a male at times or at least be mistaken for a male. I do not pass all the time. I think that being in constant transition is taxing in some ways. But I'm mindful of how I interact with others and how I present myself. I feel the most comfortable with those who know I'm in transition. I am proud to be a transgendered person.

DamonK 05-03-2010 12:31 PM
Currently transitioning is not an option for me.

I ID as male. I'm constantly explaining, or wincing when I hear "ma'am" in reference to me.

Several of my residents call me Mr. *insert bio name*. It's a hard position to be in.

I have been mildly gay bashed at where I work. I don't agree with it, but with the economy the way it is, I'm not going to leave my job without something else in place.

My other half got a rude awakening when she realized what life with me could be like and how it could be difficult for me.

Even though it would be easier for me, I elect to not transition fully. Currently, there are tenative plans for some top surgery. I'm not entirely sure if it will be traditional top surgery that FTMs receive or just a reduction.

Also, a factor in my decision has to do with cost. My insurance will cover a reduction, for example. However, it will not cover top surgery. If it comes down to that, I have to decide which I can live with.

Glenn 05-03-2010 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherboi (Post 13577)
It is easy to have confidence/belief system chipped away piece by piece when constantly barraged by fear and ignorance. My experince is when I am constantly maintaining good confidence and can't just let it flow naturally it takes away from the growth of my being. My experince living in a conservative area is one of constant reminder of my gender because people here are so fearful of anything different. I attended a wedding a couple weeks ago. Friends of the bride and groom. They have known me long enough to understand I am who I am. I wore a pants suit vest and tie. The night was great. We danced, we sang, and everybody seemed to have a good time. A week later I find out they think I ruined their wedding. They think I was trying to make a political in your face kinda statement. Two days later I was at the local hardware store picking up some tapcon screws and some guys driving through the parking lot called me a dyke and threw a soda at me. LOL My first thought was to yell ...Hey I'm not a fuckin dyke! I didn't though. I don't really care because it happens all the time. My point is sometimes the people we are dictates how we have the experince. Obvious enough right? I can't speak for other people but I know when i am bogged down in the negativity I can't enjoy life no matter what choice/road/path I decide to take. Strategically placing myself in an environment that will support my desired lifestyle is pretty important.
In the oneness of allness, I am, in some degree or aspect, guilty of, or infected with, or suffering from, everything that I attack." (Charles Fort)

Andrew, Jr. 05-03-2010 03:52 PM

I think it is a real shame that people cannot allow others to be who and what they are.

Julien 11-01-2011 06:19 PM
I think this is a great thread for discussion for those of us who cannot transition for many reasons, but consider themselves TG. I am 49 and I feel like my time is limited for what I can or cannot do for my transition. Financially (and insurance wise) I cannot transition the way I dream of doing. So what is one to do when you are stuck in between? It is a frustrating place to be, not fitting in to how you see yourself. Any thoughts?

Billy 11-01-2011 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s (Post 452673)
I think this is a great thread for discussion for those of us who cannot transition for many reasons, but consider themselves TG. I am 49 and I feel like my time is limited for what I can or cannot do for my transition. Financially (and insurance wise) I cannot transition the way I dream of doing. So what is one to do when you are stuck in between? It is a frustring place to be, not fitting in to how you see yourself. Any thoughts?
I have started My transition , it will be 5 years on 11/9/11.. I pay for My T and My Dr visits to get My levels checked .. I also have no insurance ..I have not done top surgery at this time , one reason is No insurance and another is the time I would have to take off .. I detail cars for a living and I am self employed , so if I don't work and being off 6 to 8 weeks does not work for Me .. I see Myself as a Man , I am seen as a Man , what is under My clothes is nobodys business but Mine and My girlfriends . I will legally change My name to William , but the F on the drivers license will stay the same as on My birth certificate What I have found out is a lot of folks believe it or don't even know there is a F for female and M for Male on your drivers license and most of the time they are looking at your birth date .. I am comfortable with where I am at this point .. I think it really depends on your head space ..

Corkey 11-01-2011 06:53 PM
I'm not taking T the hormone. But am on a booster that is homeopathic. I'm on SSDI and it will never pay for transition.
The T booster gains me energy and some muscle mass that due to my condition is deteriorating. My wife is super supportive.

atomiczombie 11-01-2011 07:31 PM
I was on a low dose T for 7 months, then 5 months on the full dose. I found I couldn't handle some of the changes my body was going through, so I had to stop. My voice dropped some, I have had top surgery and a full hysterectomy, however I am still read as female. I have accepted that this is as far as I will go with my transition. I like my body a lot more now, even though it is imperfect in many ways. I wish I could have gone further with the T, but it's just not in the cards for me. I am at peace with it and the fact that I will always wear my queer card on my sleeve.

chai~ 11-01-2011 07:35 PM
*bookmarking to read more thoroughly later*

Maverick 02-23-2012 11:18 PM
This is my first post here. Been reading all of your insights into the intricacies of being transgendered as well as butch, femme and every combination thereof. This thread speaks to me as I am in the process of deciding whether to transition or not. I've been in a lesbian relationship for the past 15 years and my partner is not at all happy with the idea of me transitioning and, while she says she is supportive of me being tg, she has also made it clear that she is not willing to stay with me if I decide to transition. I just turned 50, we have a beautiful life together and I have much to lose if I transition. I struggle every day with what to do. I did go on a low dose of androgel about 6 months ago to see if I felt any better..since I'm menopausal and it actually does help with energy and muscle retension among other things in menopausal women. So far, I think the benefits of taking the T have been helpful. I've lived in this skin for 50 years and, while I would really like to make changes to my body to align it more with who I feel I am inside, I just don't know if I really want to go about redefining who I am at this point and potentially lose a lot of what I've worked for most of my life. I'd appreciate hearing other people's stories on how they came to the decision to transition or not to transition.


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