Met my friend.........

fuck 'em ........

be who you are.....we all have many twists and turns as we walk in this world.......the good and the painful........I figure we learn from everything that happens......change really is not a bad thing........I would much rather be a person who is grows than a person who never grows.

Please forgive me if i shouldnt be in this thread and feel free to move me along. I am in the process of atarting transition because i feel i don.t totally belong in the female gender. That being said i'm not 100% sure i belong in the male either. I'm probably 70/30 but its just enough to feel uncomfortable as a female. Saying that all my clothes etc and outward display is male. Maybe if gender fluid or third gender was more accepted the way bi sexual has come to be then i wouldnt feel the need to choose. But right now i do. Maybe after transition the odds will be down to 90/10 but think i will always be a part of both. And i'm hoping my psych doesnt read this- there goes my chances of surgery! :pile:

Good thread. I understand what is talked about here.
I would also like to say something that gets me in trouble a lot, but I truly think is important to mention. I think femme is a gender as well..maybe a fourth gender or a third alongside butch, I don't know.
I don't feel I am just a woman, or just a lesbian, I am a femme and this gender of mine does say a lot about me. I hope others feel the same way.

It makes sense to me. Thank you for mentioning it.

You know, some parts of your experience don't resonate with me--for instance, the part about experiencing feminine as something "other" which is not related to gender, or your body speaking a different language than you do--but then some parts of it resonate SO strongly!! And I just absolutely love your last paragraph. Like parallel bicycles, that's a wonderful metaphor.

Other people do think I'm aligned, gender and body, and it makes my gender invisible to them. My gender is Femme. It is not the same gender as Woman, which is what people assume. Over the years I've gotten so much resistance and so much confusion that I've just given up and for the sake of having coherent conversations, I've starting referring to myself as a woman again... but my gender is Femme.

Yep, makes lots of sense to me.
I do understand the internal fighting of am I male or am I female. When I was 13 I wanted to be a boy, because of a crush I had on an older girl.
Fast forward to High School and the uncomfortable feeling I had in trying to play girl, even though I was one of the rough neck kids...tackle frisbee comes to mind. Having a boyfriend, because all the females of that time had boyfriends. Even if they really didn't want them.
Until I came out at age 30, I was still not femme even though I had stopped thinking of transitioning, I really didn't want the man body either.
It took me several years after that to figure out that I'm just fine in a female body and being the weird, cool kid, who can work and do just as much as most males.

*posting when tired is a dangerous thing. Hope this makes some semblance of sense*

This certainly resonates with me. Being a woman in no way works against me being butch or masculine.

Hi, Alex K.

Welcome to the thread! If you want to be here to talk about the "third gendered" or "other gendered" butch, than you belong here!

There are lots of guys that transition in some way physically or take T and still don't define as male. Sometimes people just want their bodies to match their mind, but that doesn't mean male or female or man or woman, necessarily.

I can say the same thing reading your thoughts over the years Greyson, and I'm glad you chimed in here.

Definitely hear you on the pronouns too, I've used Hy Hys Hym online for many years trying to at least indicate that "middle" feeling, but really don't get worked up over other pronouns.

My lady always called me "she" when we first met, but now she alternates them though I've never requested her to use any in particular, seems they just pop out back and forth at random (at first she said she surprised herself in doing so). It doesn't bother me, somehow seems like a kind of odd subconscious acknowledgment that she does see that genderqueer-ness in me.

Metro

Hey alex,

Perhaps you may want to try asking questions and discussing any concerns you may have with folks on the trans threads. This is not to say you are not welcome here because you are more than welcome, but it concerns me that you are talking about transitioning before you are really sure that is what you want to do.

It may be a big help for you to talk to some of the guys who have been through and are going through that huge process before just jumping into it because being a female doesn't feel quite right to you at this moment. If being a man doesn't feel right either, perhaps you want to discuss it more before taking drastic steps.

I hope this finds you doing well! Keep talking about it!


Sorry, I just realized I quoted Dapper instead of alex and I'm not sure how to fix that to show alex's post.

Fixed

Metro

I was kinda waiting for someone to point that out for them as well. So thank you.

Inks see it the same way. sometimes one her genders gets in an argument with her *body* but never gets in an argument with her other gender. I expereince that. The body that goes with my femme gender it a bit off the mark. But that may be my own baggage with my own conceptions of masculine (for lack of a better word. there is no word for it and that one is a sucky second to what I mean) femininity - perhaps androgenised hyper-femininity? Nevermind I can't explain it. Anyway, inks has a good friendship between her two genders. Maybe one rolls it's eyes a bit at the other on occation but that's about it.

but for both of us, we do have problems with the body matching up to the brain self-picture on occation, but it's not about genders not aligning with each other. I think anyones mulitplicity of gender can have a fine team action going on, rather than polerised bad marriages. Meaning... sorry... it doesn't *have* to be opposites nor does it *have* to be intrusive and cross purposes with each other.

I do get that for some it is. I'm not saying they need to "fly right, jack and pull up your boots straps." all I mean is, more than one gender doesn't mean an internal dogfight *has* to be the result.

You're right, and your identifying with being a woman I don't feel is has any impact on your masculinity or butch-ness either.

Just as my not being woman gendered but GQ/3rd isn't dependent on my being butch or my masculinity (or vice versa). GQ/TG/3rdG gender people have all different kinds of incarnations in life, different identities, sexes and sexual orientations.

Glad you kind of sideways pointed out something I wanted to say, in that the way I experience my gender it isn't born of or reliant on any comparison to my being Butch or masculinity...

Actually Metro being a woman, butch and masculine, as well as lesbian/queer, all tie together for me. So I wouldn't say they don't have any impact on each other or that they are separate for me personally.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I was using your post as a jumping off point for me to express some things I had wanted to say about my perspective.

Besides I was just saying my being GQ isn't reliant or born of my being Butch or masculine... I'm certain there's some correlation with my gender in life resulting in certain places I arrive at... (Butch, etc. etc.) there really couldn't not be.

I wasn't stating absolutes.

ETA: ...and had actually edited my post to make sure I reflected that.

Not all Women are Butches. Not all Third/Other Gender are Butches.

I wasn't objecting to anything in your post, just saying I don't see the various aspects of myself as not impacting each other or being separate. I don't see butch as being separate from woman for me. Glad if my post could serve as a jumping off place.

That's fine Bull, I wasn't debating anything either, I'm happy that all those things and being a woman are in line for you.

Good day.

I have said more than once in several places around the net that I claim at least 2 genders.........butch and woman being primary genders for me. I live in those 2 genders the large majority of my time.

I have also said that I do have a male id'd part of me (possibly another gender I guess) within the kink community. My leather Top/Dom space is Syr and really has nothing to do with woman and probably little to do with butch. And yes, sometimes it bites me and feels incongruent.....but I do like that space..........I just don't live it 24/7.

I rarely bottom (and don't have a submissive bone in my body) in the kink world.........when I do, I just don't think about it in terms of gender.........I think about in terms of bottom energy.

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Of course femme is also a gender.........I can't even figure why anyone would say it's not.......makes no sense to me.