Okay, y'all, if I had the rights to publish from this here thread, I do believe you might find the flowergirl's words above right slap on the inside jacket cover.

I can't really untangle this discussion from the one I have every day with my self about being a woman. I have yet to actually embrace the name "Femme" even though I'm all about embracing butches. This is the ONLY place I've felt free to express this thought. Actually, it's the only place I've felt safe enough to even articulate it to myself-- I have a hard time being "a" femme because I haven't been able to completely divorce it from the idea of butch. One seems to have to go with the other. It describes my sexual preference, but it doesn't describe ME. My whole struggle, regarding identity, has to do with coming to an awareness of and appreciation for who I am, as a whole being. As a woman. As a lesbian. To me, these are the most powerful names. A lot of times, on these sites, I maintain a bemused detachment. And, when I finally feel like I have something useful to add, I can't help but put apology after disclaimer after qualification. Lest I offend ANYONE else. But, fuck how I feel. It's like, "Ahem, excuse me. But, I have an opinion. Sorry if it offends anyone in the whole wide world. But, if you offend me, I understand because I give you your (story, religion, family upbringing, mental illness, addiction, abuse, culture, age, life stage, loss and grief....). I will understand, but you don't have to. So. Sorry if I offended anyone."

I reread an old post of mine on another site, replete with these apologies, just today and I wanted to vomit. In life, as well as on line, I still haven't found how to be as strong an advocate for myself as I am for everyone else.

I believe it took a lot of courage to say what you just said here. No need to vomit. You have learned from your own history and that is something to be embraced, yes? <smile>

I believe, too, that you ARE finding your own power.....just by posting this evolving moment. I admire you.

Thank you, kind, sweet Diva. xo

Courage is a funny thing to me. I have done some things that have been considered courageous. (As all of us have, right?) But, everything I've done that seems courageous, including writing the above post, is just an expression of something or another that had to be said or done. There is a point when it is more difficult and more painful to hold something back than to just say the truth. Every time I have one of these moments, when I have to tell the truth, I feel bigger and stronger. I feel more of the woman that I am. My affinity for other women also raises. It hasn't been difficult for me to accept the wide range of self-expression I've encountered on these sites. The more I accept myself, the more comfortable I am with the whole range of expression of others'.

Lynn
(resisting the kneejerk urge to apologize for posting twice...what the fuck is that?)

This is my quote for the day.

And I may steal it and use it and never give you credit.

I've said this before in other threads, but since y'all don't thread stalk me like you should, I'll say it again.

Our identity as femmes is frequently linked to our masculine counterpart. But butches are never burdened with this. Their standing in a community is never identified by their female counterpart. For example, if we are dating someone who is female-identified, we are expected to eschew the trans community. If we are dating a transperson, we suddenly must shun female-identified butches. And, heaven forbid, if we date another femme, we must simply pack up, turn in our femme card, and leave the Mother Ship.

Sometimes, it feels as though we are hauled off by our hair to join the "their" caveman clan.

we're all responsible for the misogyny of a space--i don't think any one of us born/conditioned to be *female* in this society can escape some level of internalized xyz-phobia.

specifically, what i find most troubling is this femme- *sublimation* of herself to/for 'the masculine' as she devalues the female (or possibly just *femme*, case depending) while celebrating the masculine (male case depending). and not so suddenly we're all unwilling or not, participants even if our only participation was being a witness.

-i shall return-

I was seriously considering making it my signature line.

Commence thread stalking.

I'm glad you spoke to this aspect of "standing in a community." I've seen a bit of this in the realz. A femme attends local butch/femme meetings, begins to date another femme, or a male (of any variety) and suddenly other folks start to question her presence in the community. As if who she is bangin' has anything to do with her sense of community belonging, or deep affiliation.

What? We can only check one box now?

Sexbits.

I blush.

There's no place like home....
 

Oh man, (oops)

I have been reading the posts and loving the energy, words hadn't quite come to the tips of my fingertips. But, the thread has obviously entered my subconscious.

I just remembered I dreamt last night that I was dressed as a babygirl at the Michigan Women's Music Festival.

That must be the weirdest fucking convergence of femme, feminist, girl, female subtex.

There were other babygirls here and there at the Fest as well. At one point someone was trying to ask me if I needed help getting out of there, as I obviously didn't belong (to her). I looked at her coldly, and said, "No." You see, I was dressed as a babygirl, but certainly wasn't feeling one inside, and certainly had no butch lookin after me. I was kind of a babygirl ethnographer on a mission. Observing how the festies reacted to me and the other babygirls.

I had the cutest little gingham outfit.

Anyhow, a tad about me, just to add to the diverse-titty of us. I came out as a lesbian-feminist in 1979 in one of the many super-insulated, almost separatist, lesbian-feminist communities around the country at the time. Three years later I discovered the word femme, and knew it was who I was. I found this word in the middle of a worldwide protest movement against long range nuclear missiles, when I was sleeping many nights in a lesbo-constructed protest structure on the grounds of a corporation that built the guidance systems for these missiles. I knew femme was me because I did things like: 1) painted my bedroom in the lesbo collective houseshold pink 2) decorated said room with my babydolls from my childhood 3) wore a collection of thrift store dresses, and skirts against my hairy legs amidst the jeans and political t-shirts 4) threw tea parties and garden parties for the grumpy lesbian masses.

Anyhow, all of this was tolerated by the androgynous masses, probably because I did it in a butchless, asexual vacuum. The femme who I am has always been just that, who I am.

I think my biggest struggle with inclusion/feeling sidelined on these sites has been the anti-lesbian sentiment which is sometimes subtle and sometimes oh-so-very Overt.

And, being on these sites has been an opportunity to enrich myself and my femmeness in so many ways. To be friends with girls/women/femmes who wear makeup and high heels has been profoundly moving and affirming. You all have always scared the shit outta me!!!!

So I'm late to this party. Bite me. I will be multi-quoting in purple and using emoticons. Double bite me.

Sometimes I think it is a way to silence ourselves. I think I try to force myself into the "expected roles". And you know what? It hurts. It doesn't feel good to do something or say something simply because that's what "our community" does or expects of me.

But when I don't toe the "party" line, I am in danger of being ostracized. And that hurts too. Sometimes more than doing what is expected.

So do I :bdsmslave:to the expected party line or do I become a :sumo: and make my own way?

It's an ongoing struggle.

So guilty of this but more forgiving when it is from someone I have become friends with OR that I have seen post "meatier" posts as well. Those that post only fluff are often looked down on by those that don't.

Why is that? Do those that post only fluff take away from who I am in any way? Do their words and colors and emoticons diminish me personally? The concept of "femme" as a whole?

No. Not even one iota. What FemmeA says in purple, italic, Georgia font about being a babygirl has NOTHING to do with me. It, like the color of her font, doesn't rub off.

So I need to check my own "party" line at the door. I am as guilty of doing to that femme as what has been done to me in an effort to silence or censure me. :seconddoh:

We've talked about this, I think. I am seen as rude and aggressive quite often because of my very dogmatic way of expressing myself. Because I prefer to be honest and upfront, that is often seen as "mean."

I think being called "mean" is a way of trying to force me into someone else's box. So I am learning to stand on my own two feet (at 48...you think I would have learned this by now) and not worry about it. But it still hurts.

I've learned a lot specifically from you, A. Because of you. Through you. From you. You have been an amazing teacher even when you didn't know it.

Sometimes, the stereotyping threads, to me, are fun simply because they point out how different we all are. Why not start a thread here that addresses this very thing, June? That femme is self-defined. Period.

It is not "who I'm boinking" defined.
It is not "what color is my lipstick" defined.
It is not "how long is my dildo" defined.
It is not "how polite am I in public" defined.
It is not "how short my skirts are" defined.
and so on.

Amen. Just A-freaking-men (or woman?). This was very well said. I particularly liked "It's not an act for someone else."

That, Lynn, is what I call a journey. You are on one. I'm on one. Mine started in 2006(I think... maybe 2003) of acknowledging and exploring the term femme. Hang in there. And don't stop apologizing until you feel like it. :) Even that is yours and no one gets to define you.

See! Another reason I love you. You give great quote!

I am one who has been overtly anti-lesbian because of past hurts. I do not id as a lesbian for a lot of reasons I have gone diarrhea-mouth over on the Dash site. I take ownership here and now of allowing those specific women (because Gods know it has not been all lesbians) who hurt me to color my view of the word lesbian.

And your last line? Me too! Seriously.

P.S. Did you come out in upstate NY? Because those were some hardcore dyke-feminists.

And isn't it odd. I'm fine with calling myself a dyke, but not a lesbian. Must explore that. :reader:

{{{Bit}}}

I think this is a great place to talk about the ways in which that has happened. And why are we silencing one another? What does it mean that we do this?

Are we, as a friend suggested (thanks hudson), playing out the evolutionary battle in a competition for resources (butch/masculine people)? Is this what that competition begins to look like when it becomes so fiercely ingrained?

And is this why our masculine counterparts seem to be in their own power-struggle? Or does it truly, at baseline, have to do with misogyny?

Is misogyny the result of that struggle?

These questions aren't really for this thread, I suppose, so forgive my tangential mind. But I do wonder about the ways that we silence one another. And at least about the more topical reasons as to why.

We are both subsumed and erased in turns.

This in itself is the crux of the reason behind my decision to write this letter to all of you. I wrote something once about how I do not see myself as "invisible." I am not an invisible femme. Whether or not I am seen is merely a determination as to the clarity in the eyesight of others.

I intend, only, to stand tall enough so as not to be missed should they endeavor to look.

I hope more ladypeople come in here and read this!

Dear Bonne,

babygirl ethnographer on a mission.

You just fuckin' made my goddamned day.

I :stillheart: you like you don't know what,

e