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UofMfan 03-23-2010 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow (Post 72086)
New GOP Poll Shows Scary Results

The Harris poll says that two thirds of Republicans (40% of Americans) believe that President Obama is a socialist. 57% (32% overall) believe that he is a Muslim, and 45% (25% overall) believe that he was not born in this country.

The scariest statistic though, is that 24% of Republicans believe that Obama is the antichrist.

What the poll shows me is the average educational background and IQ of Republicans.

MsDemeanor 03-23-2010 07:28 PM

We now know where all this window-breaking came from. Seems that some former militiaman posted a call for followers to break the windows of Democratic leaders.

linkyloo

AtLast 03-24-2010 09:29 PM

Yes, DARK AGES!!! This is plain infantile!! These public servants do receive paychecks from us!! I have really had it with these idiots!! They are obstructing a hell of a lot more than the health-care reform reconciliation bill! This is interfering with what is happening with our troops- you know, the ones that have their lives on the line! ENOUGH!!!


Please join me in writing letters, emails making phone calls... whatever to both the GOP & Dems and let them know they are being remiss in their duties (job)! If you have family/friends serving in the military in Afghanistan or Iraq, it seems that this kind of behavior could put your loved ones in jeopardy if it continues. The health-care reforms are not the only business of the Senate!! How many of us can just quit the day early and not get penalized for doing so?


GOP Senators Refusing To Work Past 2PM, Invoking Obscure Rule

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/gop-senators-refusing-to_n_511639.html


Senate Republicans fuming over the passage of health care reform are now refusing to work past 2 p.m. -- a tactic they can employ by invoking a little-known Senate rule.

On Wednesday, the Judiciary Committee was forced to cancel a hearing as was the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) tweeted today : "Disappointed. Rs refusing to allow hearings today. Had to cancel my oversight hearing on police training contracts in Afghanistan."
Sen. Mark Udall also complained that he had to delay a hearing on the cause of Western forest fires.
Making good on Sen. John McCain's threat to withhold all Republican cooperation from Democrats in the Senate in retribution for the majority party using reconciliation to pass health care reform, the GOP used the rule that states committees can only meet when the chamber is in session with the unanimous consent of all members. That consent has almost never been withheld -- until now.
Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) asked for consent for his panel to operate Wednesday afternoon. He noted, ironically, that his request had the support of McCain.
"There is objection on our side of the aisle and therefore I object," said Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.).
The GOP objection blocked testimony from Admiral Robert Willard, United States Navy Commander of the U.S. Pacific Command; from General Kevin Chilton, United States Air Force, Commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, and from General Walter Sharp, United States Army Commander, U.S. Forces Korea.



For his part, Judiciary Chairman Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) was livid when his committee was forced to delay consideration of several judicial nominees.
"I have accommodated requests from Judiciary Committee Republicans to delay the Committee's hearing to consider Professor Liu's nomination," Leahy said.
He continued: "For months, Senate Republicans have resisted efforts to enact important reforms to our health insurance system. But when the dust settles and the emotions are calmed, history will show that President Obama and this Congress responded to a pressing national issue, and proved once again that we can act with the purpose of advancing an important national interest. Sadly, actions like today's objections from Senate Republicans to the consideration of a highly qualified, historic nominee will be viewed as little more than petty, partisan politics."
Jim Manley, a spokesperson for Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), objected to the objection. "For a second straight day, Republicans are using tricks to shut down several key Senate committees. So let me get this straight: in retaliation for our efforts to have an up-or-down vote to improve health care reform, Republicans are blocking an Armed Services committee hearing to discuss critical national security issues among other committee meetings? These political games and obstruction have to stop -- the American people expect and deserve better."

Without unanimous consent, committees are allowed to meet for two hours following the opening of the Senate session -- which on Wednesday was 9:00 a.m. The committees need consent to continue and consent again to continue after 2:00 p.m. Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii), Chairman of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, had his hearing shut down abruptly at 11:00 Wednesday morning, in the middle of a discussion on the effort to end veteran homelessness in the next five years. It is estimated that more than 100,000 veterans are homeless in the United States on any given night.
"The Senate should be a place for debate, but I cannot imagine how shutting down a hearing on helping homeless veterans has any part of the debate on the health insurance reform," said Akaka. "I am deeply disappointed that my colleagues chose to hinder our common work to help end veteran homelessness."
Committee meetings were also canceled on Tuesday, but as the result of a behind-the-scenes threat, rather than an on-the-floor objection. One meeting that was shut down even dealt with transparency in government. The Executive Director of the Sunlight Foundation, Ellen Miller was cut off during the hearing.
Nick Wing contributed reporting to this post.

Linus 03-25-2010 05:59 AM

You know what, I'd make sure that every MSM knows about them not working beyond 2pm. And then I'd run a series of ad campaigns about how they are lazy and not really interested in helping voters, just themselves. I have a feeling with so many people out of work, they won't appreciate the lack of work ethic in those that should be doing something especially when having a job.

Greyson 03-25-2010 08:30 AM

Shaking my head. In all my years of following the US Congress and state level legislators...... Some of this stuff is just down right amusing but also sad and pathetic.

What a bunch of big babies. "I didn't get my way. So now I am going to be even more obstinate and with no real regard, nor concern for the American people."

Apocalipstic 03-25-2010 08:37 AM

I am just so incredibly depressed about the whole thing. I wonder how bad things will get before people wake up.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow (Post 72086)
New GOP Poll Shows Scary Results

The Harris poll says that two thirds of Republicans (40% of Americans) believe that President Obama is a socialist. 57% (32% overall) believe that he is a Muslim, and 45% (25% overall) believe that he was not born in this country.

The scariest statistic though, is that 24% of Republicans believe that Obama is the antichrist.

*Hangs Head* I have to admit, when I found out W was OK with torture, I kept wondering when he was going to sprout a tail and start wearing a little cape.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor (Post 72157)
The antichrist number doesn't bother me so much; you're talking about 5% of the population. I'd assume that at least 5% of the population is in the religious wing-nut camp and that they assume anything that they don't like is the antichrist.

I find the other numbers much more disturbing. 40% of Americans have no idea of what Socialism is, and 25% prefer to believe lies spewed by Faux Newz and other wing-nuts to clear and documented facts about the President's birthplace. Don't even get me started on the glaring inability to apply the most basic of logic to the 32% who think he's Muslim while at the same time blasting him for attending Rev. Wright's Christian church.

This country needs a serious overhaul of it's educational system. Oh, wait, education is elitist. Sorry, my bad.


How did anyone get out of Jr. High not knowing what socialism is. SCREAM.

It is incredibly concerning how little people learned in school. Basic stuff.

WILDCAT 03-30-2010 12:19 AM

Not sure...
 
... where to plunk these little news nuggets. (And sorry if on another thread already, I've been looking...?)

I was just watching CNN and the uproar about Michael Steele being "in the hot seat", regarding a political gathering PAID for by the RNC that was at a sex club, specializing or well known as a "bondage nightclub", and had strippers during this event, etc...

I have to laugh a bit, at the hypocricy. I wonder what fucking Beck will say about this. Geez, I wonder who in the party they will "blame". (Steele seems like the perfect scapegoat... and he has asked for so much.)
___

Then there is a huge piece to run for several weeks now on CNN regarding Scientology. A former big shot, kicked out of the church is spilling his guts, about the "head" guy (the new RON H. #1 dude) kicking peoples asses and beating the shit out of them, and other staff below him ordered to do so - including the guy "talking" now, etc... (who admits he did this at the orders of the head guy and of course, they are saying only "he was abusive, was let go, and is trying to get back at the church"). This should be very interesting, to see how this develops.

And I wonder what Tom Cruise comes out with in defense on this one!

Happy, happy everyone... (Just me - who STILL DISTAINS ORGANIZED RELIGION and certain political parties!)

SMILE and peace ya'll!

WILDCAT

UofMfan 03-30-2010 08:07 AM

Heads, except his own, begin to fall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_518110.html

Soon 03-30-2010 04:27 PM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP0AY4PNVlg"]YouTube- How Did So Many Republicans End Up Believing Falsehoods About Obama?[/ame]

AtLast 03-30-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILDCAT (Post 75625)
... where to plunk these little news nuggets. (And sorry if on another thread already, I've been looking...?)

I was just watching CNN and the uproar about Michael Steele being "in the hot seat", regarding a political gathering PAID for by the RNC that was at a sex club, specializing or well known as a "bondage nightclub", and had strippers during this event, etc...

I have to laugh a bit, at the hypocricy. I wonder what fucking Beck will say about this. Geez, I wonder who in the party they will "blame". (Steele seems like the perfect scapegoat... and he has asked for so much.)
___

Then there is a huge piece to run for several weeks now on CNN regarding Scientology. A former big shot, kicked out of the church is spilling his guts, about the "head" guy (the new RON H. #1 dude) kicking peoples asses and beating the shit out of them, and other staff below him ordered to do so - including the guy "talking" now, etc... (who admits he did this at the orders of the head guy and of course, they are saying only "he was abusive, was let go, and is trying to get back at the church"). This should be very interesting, to see how this develops.

And I wonder what Tom Cruise comes out with in defense on this one!

Happy, happy everyone... (Just me - who STILL DISTAINS ORGANIZED RELIGION and certain political parties!)

SMILE and peace ya'll!

WILDCAT

Watching the CNN presentations this week about the Scientology head and this scandal. I honestly am not that well-versed in Scientology, but, have always wondered why it seems to be the religion of the stars? It appears that the majority of its members are white and rich. Hummm... sound familiar?

It will be interesting to see how Steele handles the bondage club GOP Social event! What amazes me is that these idiots continue to do this kind of stuff with all of the media people out there watching them! Guess, they just can't help themselves....

Overall, I am very tired ofthe garbage that goes on in both major political parties. Here we are in one of the worst financial situations ever and these people are doing nothing but pointing fingers and thinking about re-election and the 2012 presidential election!

HELLO.... this will never change without a complete overhaul of campaign funding, including it being via public funds that are all equal! Look at how much $ is thrown down the political toilets! And how much is exempt for churches based upon very flimsy legislation that runs counter to the Constitution...

Jess 03-30-2010 05:24 PM

Maybe we need more LGBT churches.. doing more lobbying, oops , I mean outreach. I hear you can become licensed with an on line certificate.

Cyclopea 03-31-2010 10:25 PM

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/u...s_machine.jpeg
http://lookatthisfuckingteabagger.com/

apretty 03-31-2010 11:36 PM

that's a sorry-ass closeted dyke, probably drives a minivan.

apretty 03-31-2010 11:47 PM

why does a gathering of teabaggers look like they were pulled directly from a wal-mart, ditching their piled-high carts of ground beef, hot pockets and high fructose corn syrups?

Jess 04-01-2010 04:41 AM


so, shouldn't we upgrade from toaster ovens to laptops when giving out out pink cards???

Mitmo01 04-01-2010 05:41 AM

anyone whos interested in this whole scientology expose should check out the Tampa newspaper, they have been doing a special investigation on the church of scientology for about a year. That paper has exposed David Miscaivage who is the leader of that church and the scientologists turned around and have hired independent investigators to invesitgate that paper and the reporters who are exposing thier bullshit...lmfao....

apretty 04-01-2010 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitmo01 (Post 76839)
anyone whos interested in this whole scientology expose should check out the Tampa newspaper, they have been doing a special investigation on the church of scientology for about a year. That paper has exposed David Miscaivage who is the leader of that church and the scientologists turned around and have hired independent investigators to invesitgate that paper and the reporters who are exposing thier bullshit...lmfao....

how's scientology any different from any other religion?

Random 04-01-2010 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty (Post 76882)
how's scientology any different from any other religion?

It isn't... It's just newer and still has stories to be told..

Martina 04-01-2010 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty (Post 76797)
why does a gathering of teabaggers look like they were pulled directly from a wal-mart, ditching their piled-high carts of ground beef, hot pockets and high fructose corn syrups?

OK, do not malign the HOT POCKETS. Or at least not the Lean Pockets!

UofMfan 04-01-2010 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty (Post 76797)
why does a gathering of teabaggers look like they were pulled directly from a wal-mart, ditching their piled-high carts of ground beef, hot pockets and high fructose corn syrups?

Add this to the list, illiteracy!

This is too funny! Please make sure to click on this part "Proceed onward, brave grammarian."


http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...grammar-fails/

MsDemeanor 04-01-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan (Post 76939)
Add this to the list, illiteracy!

This is too funny! Please make sure to click on this part "Proceed onward, brave grammarian."


http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...grammar-fails/

That's scary. Illiterates demanding that English be the only language in this country.

As for the dyke and her big sign, I'd think that someone familiar with Alan Turing would be just a tad bit brighter. I'm guessing that someone made the sign with a computer and gave it to her as a joke, and she's just too stupid to get it.

Linus 04-01-2010 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan (Post 76939)
Add this to the list, illiteracy!

This is too funny! Please make sure to click on this part "Proceed onward, brave grammarian."


http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...grammar-fails/

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor (Post 76968)
That's scary. Illiterates demanding that English be the only language in this country.

As for the dyke and her big sign, I'd think that someone familiar with Alan Turing would be just a tad bit brighter. I'm guessing that someone made the sign with a computer and gave it to her as a joke, and she's just too stupid to get it.


I went through the blog and what comes to mind is a question of what happened to the education system here? Why are basic grammar skills (and this seems across all generations based on the pictures) lacking? I think it's sad when a nation cannot debate within itself when the basic mechanism for discussion is lacking as well. :(

AtLast 04-01-2010 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty (Post 76797)
why does a gathering of teabaggers look like they were pulled directly from a wal-mart, ditching their piled-high carts of ground beef, hot pockets and high fructose corn syrups?

'Bout sums it up!

Something that is driving me nuts about the tea bag stuff is when I see people from western states in the mix. Fergoddessakes, idiots, other than the original 13 colonies, the rest of the US was NOT coloni!zed by England and was not subject to what the original teabaggers were bringing to bear with taxation without representation! Get a clue!

Sometimes, I want to gather these idiots up, and give them a US history class! Hummm.. but, I guess the literacy deficit would get in the way of any learning occuring there....

AtLast 04-01-2010 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty (Post 76797)
why does a gathering of teabaggers look like they were pulled directly from a wal-mart, ditching their piled-high carts of ground beef, hot pockets and high fructose corn syrups?

'Bout sums it up!

Something that is driving me nuts about the tea bag stuff is when I see people from western states in the mix. Fergoddessakes, idiots, other than the original 13 colonies, the rest of the US was NOT colonized by England and was not subject to what the original tea baggers were bringing to bear with taxation without representation! Get a clue!

Sometimes, I want to gather these idiots up, and give them a US history class! Hamm.. but, I guess the literacy deficit would get in the way of any learning occurring there....

The state of the US educational system makes me want to puke!

UofMfan 04-01-2010 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus (Post 77001)
I went through the blog and what comes to mind is a question of what happened to the education system here? Why are basic grammar skills (and this seems across all generations based on the pictures) lacking? I think it's sad when a nation cannot debate within itself when the basic mechanism for discussion is lacking as well. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtLastHome (Post 77010)
'Bout sums it up!

Something that is driving me nuts about the tea bag stuff is when I see people from western states in the mix. Fergoddessakes, idiots, other than the original 13 colonies, the rest of the US was NOT coloni!zed by England and was not subject to what the original teabaggers were bringing to bear with taxation without representation! Get a clue!

Sometimes, I want to gather these idiots up, and give them a US history class! Hummm.. but, I guess the literacy deficit would get in the way of any learning occuring there....

From Wikipedia:

The country has a reading literacy rate at 98% of the population over age 15,[5] while ranking below average in science and mathematics understanding compared to other developed countries.[6] In 2008, there was a 77% graduation rate from high school, below that of most developed countries.[7]

The poor performance has pushed public and private efforts such as the No Child Left Behind Act. In addition, the ratio of college-educated adults entering the workforce to general population (33%) is slightly below the mean of other developed countries (35%)[8] and rate of participation of the labor force in continuing education is high.[9] A 2000s study by Jon Miller of Michigan State University concluded that "A slightly higher proportion of American adults qualify as scientifically literate than European or Japanese adults".[10]


Competitiveness

The national results in international comparisons have often been far below the average of developed countries. In OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment 2003, 15 year olds ranked 24th of 38 in mathematics, 19th of 38 in science, 12th of 38 in reading, and 26th of 38 in problem solving.[97] In the 2006 assessment, the U.S. ranked 35th out of 57 in mathematics and 29th out of 57 in science. Reading scores could not be reported due to printing errors in the instructions of the U.S. test booklets. U.S. scores were far behind those of most other developed nations.


This is why sometimes I find it bothersome to conduct any sort of challenging discussion on here when all I get thrown at me is erroneous information supplied by the US school system. Of course there have been exceptions to this, and for that I am grateful.

AtLast 04-04-2010 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan (Post 77287)
From Wikipedia:

The country has a reading literacy rate at 98% of the population over age 15,[5] while ranking below average in science and mathematics understanding compared to other developed countries.[6] In 2008, there was a 77% graduation rate from high school, below that of most developed countries.[7]

The poor performance has pushed public and private efforts such as the No Child Left Behind Act. In addition, the ratio of college-educated adults entering the workforce to general population (33%) is slightly below the mean of other developed countries (35%)[8] and rate of participation of the labor force in continuing education is high.[9] A 2000s study by Jon Miller of Michigan State University concluded that "A slightly higher proportion of American adults qualify as scientifically literate than European or Japanese adults".[10]


Competitiveness

The national results in international comparisons have often been far below the average of developed countries. In OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment 2003, 15 year olds ranked 24th of 38 in mathematics, 19th of 38 in science, 12th of 38 in reading, and 26th of 38 in problem solving.[97] In the 2006 assessment, the U.S. ranked 35th out of 57 in mathematics and 29th out of 57 in science. Reading scores could not be reported due to printing errors in the instructions of the U.S. test booklets. U.S. scores were far behind those of most other developed nations.


This is why sometimes I find it bothersome to conduct any sort of challenging discussion on here when all I get thrown at me is erroneous information supplied by the US school system. Of course there have been exceptions to this, and for that I am grateful.

Public school systems are politically driven.... it is how they get monies! Or, not... Today, our public schools are test-mills.

I was talking to a friend the other night that has taught elementary school for many years. She taught during a time when although, teaching required much work and dedication for really not a lot of pay, but a teacher remained dedicated because they did see the fruits of their efforts and were respected. This was prior to school administration credentials were developed in which a person never setting foot in a classroom can become a public school's top ruling administrator. People in these positions used to have years of classroom experience prior to becoming an administrator. It was a requirement! I honestly believe that this is part of the decline in US education. It created a mid-management and higher management model in education with those in charge of budgets and policies to be someone that has only a business background and that cannot relate well with classroom teachers. And the studies done about our educational systems are formed within this schema…. Based upon political considerations

Greyson 04-07-2010 10:42 AM

States Rights, Racism, Dark Ages, Enlightnment?
 
In another thread I said I am beginning to believe that the concept of "States Rights" is now being used as a code word which is rooted in racism. IMO, this is one of the most contentious yet thought provoking times in the history of the USA.

This nation on a daily basis is questioning the status quo. History is being rewritten with a slant that leans toward the agenda, beliefs of the writer. (Those rewriting American History are not "historians" in the strictest sense. Aj wrote something somewhere about the different types of historians. Need your help here Aj.)


This article is an example of the ever changing slant on American History. I tried to read this Virginia Proclamation with an open mind. However, after not seeing one word about slavery mentioned, I could not.

Here is the thing, when I look back and read many of the writings in support of succession, States Rights, it is always tethered to slavery via inherent God given superiority or for economic survival, growth and future prosperity.

I tend to post often. Most of you know my thoughts on various topics. I would like to encourage more of the quiet ones to take a chance and participate here in discussion. Most of the time many of us do not agree and that could be a very stimulating, growth inducing experience for many.

_____________________________________________




McDonnell's Confederate History Month proclamation irks civil rights leaders
By Anita Kumar and Rosalind S. Helderman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 7, 2010; A01



RICHMOND -- Gov. Robert F. McDonnell, reviving a controversy that had been dormant for eight years, has declared that April will be Confederate History Month in Virginia, a move that angered civil rights leaders Tuesday but that political observers said would strengthen his position with his conservative base.

The two previous Democratic governors had refused to issue the mostly symbolic proclamation honoring the soldiers who fought for the South in the Civil War. McDonnell (R) revived a practice started by Republican governor George Allen in 1997. McDonnell left out anti-slavery language that Allen's successor, James S. Gilmore III (R), had included in his proclamation.

McDonnell said Tuesday that the move was designed to promote tourism in the state, which next year will mark the 150th anniversary of the start of the war. McDonnell said he did not include a reference to slavery because "there were any number of aspects to that conflict between the states. Obviously, it involved slavery. It involved other issues. But I focused on the ones I thought were most significant for Virginia."

The proclamation was condemned by the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus and the NAACP. Former governor L. Douglas Wilder called it "mind-boggling to say the least" that McDonnell did not reference slavery or Virginia's struggle with civil rights in his proclamation. Though a Democrat, Wilder has been supportive of McDonnell and boosted his election efforts when he declined to endorse the Republican's opponent, R. Creigh Deeds.

"Confederate history is full of many things that unfortunately are not put forth in a proclamation of this kind nor are they things that anyone wants to celebrate," he said. "It's one thing to sound a cause of rallying a base. But it's quite another to distort history."

The seven-paragraph declaration calls for Virginians to "understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders, soldiers and citizens during the period of the Civil War."

McDonnell had quietly made the proclamation Friday by placing it on his Web site, but it did not attract attention in the state capital until Tuesday. April also honors child abuse prevention, organ donations, financial literacy and crime victims.

After a fall campaign spent focusing almost exclusively on jobs and the economy, McDonnell had been seen in recent weeks as largely ceding conservative ground to the state's activist attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli II. The proclamation could change that view among Republicans who believe appropriate respect for the state's Confederate past has been erased by an over-allegiance to political correctness, observers said.

"It helps him with his base," said Mark Rozell, a political scientist at George Mason University. "These are people who support state's rights and oppose federal intrusion."

Said Patrick M. McSweeney, a former state GOP chairman: "I applaud McDonnell for doing it. I think it takes a certain amount of courage."

The Virginia NAACP and the state's Legislative Black Caucus called the proclamation an insult to a large segment of the state's population, particularly because it never acknowledges slavery.

"Governor McDonnell's proclamation was offensive and offered a disturbing revision of the Civil War and the brutal era that followed," said Del. Kenneth Cooper Alexander (D-Norfolk), chairman of the Legislative Black Caucus. "Virginia has worked hard to move beyond the very things for which Governor McDonnell seems nostalgic."

King Salim Khalfani, executive director of the Virginia State Conference of the NAACP, said his group will hold an emergency meeting Saturday to discuss a series of problems it has had with McDonnell since he was sworn into office in January.

Virginia has had a long, complicated history on racial relations -- long before Richmond served as the capital of the Confederacy during the Civil War. Many of its most prominent early residents, including future presidents, owned slaves, and the state openly fought desegregation, even closing schools instead of integrating them. But in 1989, the state made Wilder the first African American governor in the nation since Reconstruction.

McDonnell said Tuesday that people's thinking about civil rights and the role of the Confederacy in Virginia history have advanced to the point where "people can talk about and discuss and . . . begin to understand the history a little better."

"I felt just as I've issued dozens and dozens of other commemorations, that it was something that was worthy of doing so people can at least study and understand that period of Virginia history and how it impacts us today," he said.

The state's new governor campaigned relentlessly on improving the economy and creating jobs and received the strong backing of the business community. But the attention that Virginia will receive from the proclamation might take away from that focus.

Rozell said the proclamation is a "distraction" from McDonnell's desire to attract companies to Virginia. Businesses might begin to perceive McDonnell's latest decision -- combined with Cuccinelli's decision to sue the federal government over health-care reform legislation and his advice to state colleges and universities that they remove sexual-orientation language from their anti-discrimination policies -- as a pattern of behavior not conducive to relocating in the state.

Allen caused a national uproar when he signed a proclamation drafted by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. It called the Civil War "a four-year struggle for [Southern] independence and sovereign rights" and made no mention of slavery.

Gilmore modified the decree in 1998 by adding a condemnation of slavery, but it failed to satisfy either defenders of Confederate heritage or civil rights leaders. He later changed the proclamation by dropping references to Confederate History Month and instead designated April as "Virginia's Month for Remembrance of the Sacrifices and Honor of All Virginians Who Served in the Civil War."

But in 2002, Mark Warner, Gilmore's successor, broke with their actions, calling such proclamations a "lightning rod" that did not help bridge divisions between whites and blacks in Virginia. Four years later, Timothy M. Kaine was asked but did not issue a proclamation.

This year's proclamation was requested by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. A representative of the group said it has known since it interviewed McDonnell when he was running for attorney general in 2005 that he was likely to respond differently than Warner or Kaine.

"We've known for quite some time we had a good opportunity should he ascend the governorship," said Brandon Dorsey of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Sen. Emmett W. Hanger Jr. (R-Augusta), who has spoken from the floor of the General Assembly about honoring Virginia's Confederate past with appropriate acknowledgments to its difficult racial past, said he believed Warner and Kaine "avoided" the issue by failing to issue similar documents.

"It would be totally inappropriate to do one that would just poke a stick to stir up old wounds. But it is appropriate to recognize the historical significance of Virginia in that era," he said. "I think it's appropriate as long as it's not fiery."

McDonnell's proclamation comes just before the April 17, 1861, anniversary of the day Virginia seceded from the union.

http://www.governor.virginia.gov/OurCommonwealth/Proclamations/2010/ConfederateHistoryMonth.cfm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/04/06/ST2010040604979.html?sid=ST2010040604979

AtLast 04-07-2010 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson (Post 80532)
In another thread I said I am beginning to believe that the concept of "States Rights" is now being used as a code word which is rooted in racism. IMO, this is one of the most contentious yet thought provoking times in the history of the USA.

This nation on a daily basis is questioning the status quo. History is being rewritten with a slant that leans toward the agenda, beliefs of the writer. (Those rewriting American History are not "historians" in the strictest sense. Aj wrote something somewhere about the different types of historians. Need your help here Aj.)


This article is an example of the ever changing slant on American History. I tried to read this Virginia Proclamation with an open mind. However, after not seeing one word about slavery mentioned, I could not.

Here is the thing, when I look back and read many of the writings in support of succession, States Rights, it is always tethered to slavery via inherent God given superiority or for economic survival, growth and future prosperity.

I tend to post often. Most of you know my thoughts on various topics. I would like to encourage more of the quiet ones to take a chance and participate here in discussion. Most of the time many of us do not agree and that could be a very stimulating, growth inducing experience for many.

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McDonnell's Confederate History Month proclamation irks civil rights leaders
By Anita Kumar and Rosalind S. Helderman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 7, 2010; A01



RICHMOND -- Gov. Robert F. McDonnell, reviving a controversy that had been dormant for eight years, has declared that April will be Confederate History Month in Virginia, a move that angered civil rights leaders Tuesday but that political observers said would strengthen his position with his conservative base.

The two previous Democratic governors had refused to issue the mostly symbolic proclamation honoring the soldiers who fought for the South in the Civil War. McDonnell (R) revived a practice started by Republican governor George Allen in 1997. McDonnell left out anti-slavery language that Allen's successor, James S. Gilmore III (R), had included in his proclamation.

McDonnell said Tuesday that the move was designed to promote tourism in the state, which next year will mark the 150th anniversary of the start of the war. McDonnell said he did not include a reference to slavery because "there were any number of aspects to that conflict between the states. Obviously, it involved slavery. It involved other issues. But I focused on the ones I thought were most significant for Virginia."

The proclamation was condemned by the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus and the NAACP. Former governor L. Douglas Wilder called it "mind-boggling to say the least" that McDonnell did not reference slavery or Virginia's struggle with civil rights in his proclamation. Though a Democrat, Wilder has been supportive of McDonnell and boosted his election efforts when he declined to endorse the Republican's opponent, R. Creigh Deeds.

"Confederate history is full of many things that unfortunately are not put forth in a proclamation of this kind nor are they things that anyone wants to celebrate," he said. "It's one thing to sound a cause of rallying a base. But it's quite another to distort history."

The seven-paragraph declaration calls for Virginians to "understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders, soldiers and citizens during the period of the Civil War."

McDonnell had quietly made the proclamation Friday by placing it on his Web site, but it did not attract attention in the state capital until Tuesday. April also honors child abuse prevention, organ donations, financial literacy and crime victims.

After a fall campaign spent focusing almost exclusively on jobs and the economy, McDonnell had been seen in recent weeks as largely ceding conservative ground to the state's activist attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli II. The proclamation could change that view among Republicans who believe appropriate respect for the state's Confederate past has been erased by an over-allegiance to political correctness, observers said.

"It helps him with his base," said Mark Rozell, a political scientist at George Mason University. "These are people who support state's rights and oppose federal intrusion."

Said Patrick M. McSweeney, a former state GOP chairman: "I applaud McDonnell for doing it. I think it takes a certain amount of courage."

The Virginia NAACP and the state's Legislative Black Caucus called the proclamation an insult to a large segment of the state's population, particularly because it never acknowledges slavery.

"Governor McDonnell's proclamation was offensive and offered a disturbing revision of the Civil War and the brutal era that followed," said Del. Kenneth Cooper Alexander (D-Norfolk), chairman of the Legislative Black Caucus. "Virginia has worked hard to move beyond the very things for which Governor McDonnell seems nostalgic."

King Salim Khalfani, executive director of the Virginia State Conference of the NAACP, said his group will hold an emergency meeting Saturday to discuss a series of problems it has had with McDonnell since he was sworn into office in January.

Virginia has had a long, complicated history on racial relations -- long before Richmond served as the capital of the Confederacy during the Civil War. Many of its most prominent early residents, including future presidents, owned slaves, and the state openly fought desegregation, even closing schools instead of integrating them. But in 1989, the state made Wilder the first African American governor in the nation since Reconstruction.

McDonnell said Tuesday that people's thinking about civil rights and the role of the Confederacy in Virginia history have advanced to the point where "people can talk about and discuss and . . . begin to understand the history a little better."

"I felt just as I've issued dozens and dozens of other commemorations, that it was something that was worthy of doing so people can at least study and understand that period of Virginia history and how it impacts us today," he said.

The state's new governor campaigned relentlessly on improving the economy and creating jobs and received the strong backing of the business community. But the attention that Virginia will receive from the proclamation might take away from that focus.

Rozell said the proclamation is a "distraction" from McDonnell's desire to attract companies to Virginia. Businesses might begin to perceive McDonnell's latest decision -- combined with Cuccinelli's decision to sue the federal government over health-care reform legislation and his advice to state colleges and universities that they remove sexual-orientation language from their anti-discrimination policies -- as a pattern of behavior not conducive to relocating in the state.

Allen caused a national uproar when he signed a proclamation drafted by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. It called the Civil War "a four-year struggle for [Southern] independence and sovereign rights" and made no mention of slavery.

Gilmore modified the decree in 1998 by adding a condemnation of slavery, but it failed to satisfy either defenders of Confederate heritage or civil rights leaders. He later changed the proclamation by dropping references to Confederate History Month and instead designated April as "Virginia's Month for Remembrance of the Sacrifices and Honor of All Virginians Who Served in the Civil War."

But in 2002, Mark Warner, Gilmore's successor, broke with their actions, calling such proclamations a "lightning rod" that did not help bridge divisions between whites and blacks in Virginia. Four years later, Timothy M. Kaine was asked but did not issue a proclamation.

This year's proclamation was requested by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. A representative of the group said it has known since it interviewed McDonnell when he was running for attorney general in 2005 that he was likely to respond differently than Warner or Kaine.

"We've known for quite some time we had a good opportunity should he ascend the governorship," said Brandon Dorsey of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Sen. Emmett W. Hanger Jr. (R-Augusta), who has spoken from the floor of the General Assembly about honoring Virginia's Confederate past with appropriate acknowledgments to its difficult racial past, said he believed Warner and Kaine "avoided" the issue by failing to issue similar documents.

"It would be totally inappropriate to do one that would just poke a stick to stir up old wounds. But it is appropriate to recognize the historical significance of Virginia in that era," he said. "I think it's appropriate as long as it's not fiery."

McDonnell's proclamation comes just before the April 17, 1861, anniversary of the day Virginia seceded from the union.

http://www.governor.virginia.gov/OurCommonwealth/Proclamations/2010/ConfederateHistoryMonth.cfm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/04/06/ST2010040604979.html?sid=ST2010040604979



What comes up for me here, is that one could take this mind-set to many other areas of the US. California's history concerning Native-American, Mexican-American and Chinese labor/slavery for example is not accurately represented in our educational system. The CA Missions history for example, leaves out the fact that there are thousands of these slaves buried in mass graves at several CA Missions that were, in effect slaughtered! One can find traces of this very thing around the John Bidwell background in northern CA, if one wants to find it. That's the problem.... shedding the denial and demanding history be taught with the inclusion of what brings us shame as well as pride. To me, this is at the core of why we are unable to actually de-construct structural racism in the US.

This article makes me angry at many levels. However, I find the belief that slavery is only part of the south (and that black slavery is the only form of slavery we participated in) and that its economic underpinnings only favored the south to be one of the most damaging lies in our history.

Guess I feel that the south is not the only region in the US that needs to clean up its historical forgetfulness.

Black slavery would have permeated this country with its ugliness and economic justifications if the ships landed off the coasts of the Pacific Ocean with some other types of cash crops or New World riches as Old World colonization and the ensuing perpetuation of manifest destiny, I believe.

I am in no way trying to detract from the spirit and intent of this article, I just think we have to take a much broader look at ourselves.

dark_crystal 10-20-2010 10:03 AM

i am not 100% sure this is the right thread for this- but it was the closest i could find and i didn't weant to start a whole new one

plus how can you derail a thread that has been inactive for months and months?

i just have a question, but it does have political implications-

my boss suggested this morning that i offer a computer class specifically geared and marketed toward homeschoolers

i KNOW a lot of homeschoolers are nice non-scary people, but in our service area it is 99% new-earth creationists who can only be assumed to be virulaently anti-agy (i know that is a gross generalization but pretty safe around here, srsly)

i said that i would rather not and suggested that the Children's librarian might be better suited. The reason i gave was "homophobic religious fundamentalists give me the heebie-jeebies" (i am out at work)

now i am worried that my refusal might reflect badly on me professionally.

what do ya'll think?

katsarecool 10-20-2010 10:07 AM

I applaud your bravery!!! Your boss should be proud of standing up for your beliefs. I hope it goes well!

Linus 10-20-2010 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_crystal (Post 211025)
i am not 100% sure this is the right thread for this- but it was the closest i could find and i didn't weant to start a whole new one

plus how can you derail a thread that has been inactive for months and months?

i just have a question, but it does have political implications-

my boss suggested this morning that i offer a computer class specifically geared and marketed toward homeschoolers

i KNOW a lot of homeschoolers are nice non-scary people, but in our service area it is 99% new-earth creationists who can only be assumed to be virulaently anti-agy (i know that is a gross generalization but pretty safe around here, srsly)

i said that i would rather not and suggested that the Children's librarian might be better suited. The reason i gave was "homophobic religious fundamentalists give me the heebie-jeebies" (i am out at work)

now i am worried that my refusal might reflect badly on me professionally.

what do ya'll think?

I think it's important to stand up to your beliefs. Unless your boss can ensure a safe and welcoming work environment for you and the clients, then it's important that they understand that this might not be a safe work environment for you.

And if I may redirect a little bit.. The homeschooling thought, however, does dove-tail nicely into this thread because I've begun to wonder, based on comments by various politicians **coughOdonellcough** if the "intelligence" level we are seeing is the result of home schooling. I mean, it boggles the mind that the basic concept -- derived from the 1st Amendment -- isn't known as part of American history. In fact, many seem to want to rewrite history and ignore huge swaths of it. Given the number of these kinds of candidates that are running what does it mean for the American gov't?

Jess 10-20-2010 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_crystal (Post 211025)
i am not 100% sure this is the right thread for this- but it was the closest i could find and i didn't weant to start a whole new one

plus how can you derail a thread that has been inactive for months and months?

i just have a question, but it does have political implications-

my boss suggested this morning that i offer a computer class specifically geared and marketed toward homeschoolers

i KNOW a lot of homeschoolers are nice non-scary people, but in our service area it is 99% new-earth creationists who can only be assumed to be virulaently anti-agy (i know that is a gross generalization but pretty safe around here, srsly)

i said that i would rather not and suggested that the Children's librarian might be better suited. The reason i gave was "homophobic religious fundamentalists give me the heebie-jeebies" (i am out at work)

now i am worried that my refusal might reflect badly on me professionally.

what do ya'll think?


I too applaud you for standing up for your personal/political beliefs.

Unfortunately, we are a society in which our "personal" IS our "political". We see it everywhere we turn, especially with mid-term elections less than a week away.

I hope your employer recalls why they hired you. Your resume and the skill set you bring to the table. Too often office politics are the same as our government. The resume doesn't count and folks vote from their personal likes/dislikes, agreements/ disagreeing point of views and half of it is based on nothing more than their own personal needs/wants/biases and not for the greater good. The scathing tv ads coming from both parties is more than proof enough.

. I truly hope you don't suffer any backlash from this, and maybe, just maybe your position as a direct straightforward employee with personal integrity will be the focus.

Jess 10-20-2010 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus (Post 211034)
I think it's important to stand up to your beliefs. Unless your boss can ensure a safe and welcoming work environment for you and the clients, then it's important that they understand that this might not be a safe work environment for you.

And if I may redirect a little bit.. The homeschooling thought, however, does dove-tail nicely into this thread because I've begun to wonder, based on comments by various politicians **coughOdonellcough** if the "intelligence" level we are seeing is the result of home schooling. I mean, it boggles the mind that the basic concept -- derived from the 1st Amendment -- isn't known as part of American history. In fact, many seem to want to rewrite history and ignore huge swaths of it. Given the number of these kinds of candidates that are running what does it mean for the American gov't?


OK, that freaked me out enough I had to wiki her ( O'Donell's) bio. LOL! She attended a mainstream high school, so we can't blame it on that.

However, interesting bit.. her dad was a part time substitute for Bozo The Clown! Now, don't get me wrong, as a kid, I loved some Bozo, however, I'm not sure I would want him helping me learn to vote. LOL!

Linus 10-20-2010 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess (Post 211041)
OK, that freaked me out enough I had to wiki her ( O'Donell's) bio. LOL! She attended a mainstream high school, so we can't blame it on that.

However, interesting bit.. her dad was a part time substitute for Bozo The Clown! Now, don't get me wrong, as a kid, I loved some Bozo, however, I'm not sure I would want him helping me learn to vote. LOL!

Then either her teachers missed some stuff or she was distracted (it was the 80s so all that hair spray and shoulder pads might have done it -- and I say this as someone who was in HS at that time). Either way, I was rather shocked that even I knew that.. and I'm NOT American.

dark_crystal 10-20-2010 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsarecool (Post 211029)
I applaud your bravery!!! Your boss should be proud of standing up for your beliefs. I hope it goes well!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus (Post 211034)
I think it's important to stand up to your beliefs. Unless your boss can ensure a safe and welcoming work environment for you and the clients, then it's important that they understand that this might not be a safe work environment for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess (Post 211037)
I too applaud you for standing up for your personal/political beliefs....I truly hope you don't suffer any backlash from this, and maybe, just maybe your position as a direct straightforward employee with personal integrity will be the focus.

thanks ya'll....i am pretty sure it will be fine. The American Library Association was the first professional association to support GLBT rights, and the leadership at this library is very liberal, and my boss said she totally "got" why i was uncomfortable...my only concern is that if the children's librarian is asked to do it, and it comes out that i refused and why- THAT might offend the Children's director, cuz she's a Bible-thumper

But Linus mentioning the term "safe work environment" reminds me that i can use it lol- and if i don't feel safe and i say so, that will be enough

thanks again ya'll


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