None. At all. Unless they are cheating on you.

I think most in this thread are coming from that place...

keeping with the topic
 

a } Swans also mate for Life [and if I "read" the narrative correctly, Swans will try to kill themself if their mate dies]

b } You can be the sexiest vision ever to walk on 2 legs, that doesn't mean your "better half" won't go ga-ga over some piñata reject for some X or Y reason.

c } depending on the penguin species, the female can have more than 2 mates in 1 season, the male is stuck to 1..or 2..also, if the male is late in meeting the same female as last time, he's shit out of luck, a quicker male got her.Females are the ones who fight over the male.And last but not least, if I got my info. correct, like Most birds, the male lacks a specific weenie..it's hit or miss.[don't ask how I know this]
:popcorn:

* looks up at Rook.....seriously dude, you need to get out more.....LOL.*

Seems we mostly agree on honesty and respect as being hallmarks of our relationships, And that trust is hard to reestablish when deceit is thrown in the mix.

Thank you all for your thoughts and sharing of experiences!

The whole cheating thing. Wow. Well, I'm going to say that I strongly disagree with the whole "once a cheater always a cheater" thing. Once upon a time I was a cheater. Not in just one relationship either. Several. I"m not going to list my reasons for cheating..the point is mute. What is important is that I always had a "good reason" for it. (In my head) Usually it was something like, lack of sex in the relationship,or lack of attention from my partner. I recognize now that I was not at a point in my development to speak my mind, and fix it or leave. I wasnt strong enough..I wanted love to be a magical fix. Took me a long time to wake up from the bullshit we are taught as children about the whole fairytale. Now, I wouldnt cheat..not ever. If I"m in a position where I feel neglected to a point of no return, lack of sex..then I will end it. I'm aware of what I need, and what it takes. Even if it means letting the love of my life go..even if it kills me.

Irish

wait.
i'm cute AND a pinata reject.

I have cheated and i have been cheated on, so I don't do relationships anymore. The thing about that scum ass Jesse James is that he was never man enough to handle her success. He's weak enough to act out being shown up by her limelight and tremendous success. She's gorgeous; brilliant, level and has million things going for her....any man who's a real man would die for that and he's nothing but a sleaze ass fuckin' baby who was nothing without her. Prick. My .02

also, i think you have to be what is known as a 'sack of shit' to cheat, but i agree with the above description as well: "It has to do with being a person with values, morals and personal integrity." well said, Jacks.

i almost cheated once and i got paid-back big time by then dating a worthless piece of no-job having, lying, broke ass, mean, woman-hitting, neanderthal sack of shit. thankfully he cheated cuz then i got to DUMP him and his few tired belongings back where i found him.

:bouquet:

so i don't know if cheaters always cheat, i guess i believe that people are capable of change if they've had a life-changing event and did the work (professional, intensive therapy) and committed to change and staying changed. but that takes work and time, though it's not impossible.

Right.

Well said and THANKS for bringing up that pesky "real man" thingy.

He trolls for tattooed babes to visit his couch on MYSPACE for god's sake. I mean. Come on.

plus! what's worse--i heard the girlfriends interviewed and he *doesn't tip* servers. that's just BEYOND low. i think i'm more offended by the no-tipping than any of the other.


totally talking about tiger woods, here--wrong cheater! please disregard!

I believe in a real man thing because its how I was raised. I don;t see it as gender neutral...for reasons and traditions....i think what he did is bad...just my .02
to each his own i guess.

i think people are objecting to defining 'manhood' by something many good, honest, upstanding female BUTCHES do on a daily bases--treat their ladies right? ya know?

i know it's 'slang' to say 'man up' and mean 'good character' but words are powerful... they define us whether we realize it or not.

i get confused. bad tipper and the *vanilla gorilla* are both just lame IMO. who wants to bet on how many times NO condoms were used?

Ick. Ick. Ick.

it seems that he wasn't fond of using the condoms...and THAT is what makes me really sick and mad. That is messed up--beyond.

Yeah. Sick and mad don't even cover it. :batman:

seriously, i would bet no condoms were used, ever.

...i would have used that golf club to beat down the door of a free clinic.

glass houses.

To me infidelity is about dishonesty and lies, not about sex. In my book if you lie then that's infidelity- either in a relationship or potential relationship. Lies and omissions are incredibly hurtful and it shows a very poor character.

Being a faithful and honest person applies to all genders. It has nothing to do with being man enough, woman enough, or any other gender enough.

i think kathy bates is beautiful--frequently she's un-prettified to portray a strong character but i wouldn't describe her as plain. she definitely has an 'it factor' that radiates and resonates with her fans.

http://www.kathybates.org/images/Kat...es-Picture.jpg

http://johnmoorefamily.org/img_photos/kathy_bates.jpg


...but she's frequently remembered as her 'misery' character which i think speaks to her broad range (and compelling performance) as an actress, not that she's "plain".

plain, as in not made up, as in simple expression of features and not over glammed. I think she is beautiful, myself. Her beauty is honest. Its why I chose her to play me in a movie, in another thread.

I have been cheated on several times. It has never seemed to matter if I was skinny or fat. Rich or poor. If my hair was perfect or if I never complained. It didn't seem to matter how often we had sex or how well I cooked dinner either. It did seem to be a character flaw in each one of them. That flaw that allows you to lie to the person who you claim to love more then any other. IF you are willing to sneak around, lie, lie more to cover up those lies, hide your phone, cover up credit card charges ~ go through all of that trouble to fuck around with someone who you, generally are quick to say doesn't matter ON someone you supposedly love ~ what on earth does that say about your character? Instead of putting all of that effort into fixing whatever is wrong with your relationship - cheating is what? easier? It's easier than just leaving the relationship? Easier for who? It solves what? I don't get it. Really.

I did blame myself. Sometimes it's hard not to. But the truth is that people will do what they're going to do. All anyone has is their word. Having been cheated on so many times still effects me. That fear that you have no control over another person who may not have control over themselves - it causes tapes to play in my head. I hate that. You are forced to trust people, even if you say you "don't trust anyone." When they say they are going to work - you still assume they are actually going to work. Who would lie about that? Well, I've met those fuckers. I know what people are capable of - and that pain isn't anything that I am in any hurry to experience again.

But what can you do? Nothing. No matter how perfect you are. No matter how successful you are. No matter how nice you are. It has nothing to do with YOU. It has everything to do with THEM. People either have character, integrity and respect (for themselves, you and your relationship) or they don't. All you can do is have faith. There are times in my life right now where I start getting consumed with fear. I just stop and try my best to give it to God. That might sound hokey, but I don't know what else to do with it. lol. If there is an alternative, I'd love to know what it is....

adorable,

I hear your pain. I dont know if there is a viable alternative that works for everyone. I know what sometimes works for me and maybe there is something in there that may be of use to you. For me, I try and deal with people and relationships in the following ways:

1. Remember that people come and go in our lives for reasons that are rarely apparent at the time.

2. People being people make all kinds of mistakes and errors in judgement for many reasons. Some of these can be very harmful, some merely an annoyance. It doesnt make them bad people but it does make me think about where, if anywhere, they belong in my life.

3. Trust is something to be earned, not given freely.

4. Actions speak louder than words and the truth lays somewhere in between.

5. Women tend to hold on to relationships long after the positives outweigh the negatives. Letting go is difficult but necessary to growth.

6. If it feels like work, there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

7. Always pay attention to your gut and the red flags it sees. We have senses and intuition for a reason.

8. Don't enter into commitments easily. It is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment or the joy of something new. Take a step back and evaluate more carefully.

9. Choose wisely. Who we are attracted to and who fits in our lives are not necessarily the same person. Reminds me of that Amy Irving movie where she is attracted to the artist but a better fit with the pickle guy. The artist is wild, exciting, unpredictable. The pickle guy is normal, stable, and boring.

10. Always take responsibility. There are no guarantees, no certainties in life. We have control over us and the decisions we make. We shape our lives and the experiences we have. Its a life long growth experience. There will be ups and downs, good times and sucky times, but in the end, what matters is living as the person we want to be. All the experiences we have are merely stepping stones to our developing that person.

11. If 1-10 dont work.....call Uncle Guido....he has a more rudementary sense of justice. :)

Honesty and RESPECT.

I agree with some here... its not about sex but deception. I can handle just about anything that comes at me. I can even shift my sails and reach great compromise with people but the moment I am deceived I walk away.

In relationships people expect too much from each other or they enter into a relationship 1/2 way never really investing fully. It's all or nothing and no doubt someone will fall short or someone will step away to fulfill a need. Right or wrong its a personal agenda and rarely has anything to do with the one getting hurt.

This is why relationships are hard for me. I'm good, fair, compromising, etc until someone crowds me or tries to forced my nature. Then I shut down.

I think Tiger is emotionally and spiritually immature. It has nothing to do with his wife or sexual addiction. The most pleasure he's ever had, or learned to have is to seek, hunt, conquer, - he just hasn't learn to be a man yet.

I am a little perturbed by the plain girls thing... Really? I feel I am plain and know I am the gravy on the taters as you so put it...

We can plainly see these famous women who are being cheated on are what one could label above average in looks..

In reality these dudes have no moral character, no matter how pretty they were it did not keep their dick in their pants and somewhere between the first stroke and 3rd grunt the morals, well those went flying out the window...

Real man my ass, these guys were just looking for another place to bust a nut

Right???:spider:

plain. real man. real woman. cheaters. sex addicts.

i'm moving to canada. nobody cheats there because they all have medical coverage.

I have to admit that the "sex addict" thing makes me laugh.

Love hurts sometimes...
 

:nothingtoadd:


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P_5EWjVNr4&feature=related"]YouTube- Culture Club live Do you really want to hurt me[/ame]



*Oh... I don't feel Tiger's personal life or "affairs" is any of my business. I wish healing for that family though, however it turns out. And the same for Sandra and all wounded people who have been hurt this way. Very painful, betrayal is...

Wildcat

I'm loving Lady Snow's comment about gravy on taters! great!

I'm easy to a point. If you want someone else then have at it but leave me be.

You're kidding, right? Let's have a seance and discuss this with all the women killed by their boyfriends or husbands who found out they were cheating or who thought they were.

i am still fuming about this. i mean, do we share the same planet? i don't get it. How many women are killed a YEAR, i wonder, based on accusations of infidelity? i still can't get over it, that i even saw this on this site. It's damaging to ME to hear things like this expressed, things that i thought most people knew better than to say.