I do appreciate what y'all are saying. I have experienced many different sexual and personal relationships. I guess I had to come to my own based on what did/didn't work for me. I guess that because we all grow into ourself thru life experiences, no one definition is ever going to solely describe who we are compared to someone else. The best we can hope for is to love each other for the unique individual we are. By saying I am femme, I am relating that I am female id. I am stone femme which means I seek butches and transguys that are male id and don't want me to pleasure them in the same way they do me. This dynamic allows a melding of 2 energies (male/female) in balance (for me) 'the Dance'. This is not just a sexual preference but a lifestyle choice for me and my partner. This is who I am and doesn't define anyone else.

Interesting. Ok, so if I am understanding you correctly, you define your relationship as stone b/c it is a D/g relationship?

Meaning definition of stone for you = D/g ?

Tell it like it is
 

I have a male / gentleman mentality. I do not like to be touched in a way a women is touched. It puts me a Lesbian head space... it is a bad place for me to be at !! I do not like to be feminized. !!

I believe that at some time or another a butch or femme has found her/him self doing certain sexual behaviors to please their partner but that is why a straight out conversation no matter how uncomfortable is needed ASAP.

Stone
 

I have to agree with Gemme. I think her definition is short and to the point. Although, I am coming from the Stone Butch perspective. I really appreciate so many people sharing their thoughts and stories.

BUMP!
 

a more welcoming stone thread I had not read previously. Thanks Miss JoLynn for creating one with such grace. (f)

now, I get to go back and read it all.. lol

Thanks Jess for bumping this friendlier thread.

Thank you for this wonderful, inclusive Stone thread. There are so many awesome posts here. I did post earlier in the thread, so not much to add at this time but thank you again to everyone.

Count me in. Just another refugee from that crazy 'House'.

just read through this thread
 

Ok i get the Stone thing for Butches and Femmes..I never thought of myself as Stone but after reading i can find a place there..I do like to be the agressor in the bedroom or Top..After doing what i do in the heat of passion i do need a little touch to take the edge off things..Give me 6 seconds then my attention goes back to my partner..I dont want to get to personal with my info..There are also places i prefer not to be touched,rubbed,grabbed or whatever..Guess that is the Stone part..

I do have a question..
I here Pillow Princess being mentioned a few times..My "X" was described as being that..When it was time for the bedroom activites she would lay naked on her back in bed with her arms over her head and legs wide open..{sorry to detailed?}..Wow!!..I loved that and killer body to go with it..She would keep her arms raised during sex and never heald on to me or any kind of interaction..She responded very well but no tender touches or nothing..
My question is :: Is that the definition of a "Pillow Princess"..???..
wondering..??..

I may be wrong, but I think in many cases, your definition of a pillow princess is accurate. It is a legitimate ID and shouldn't have any negative connotations.

It is, however, not how a stone femme behaves--or personally how I behave. While I respect a stone butches boundaries, I also have my own and choose not to touch where they don't wish to touch. However, there is a world of response, touch, and affection that I can give within those mutual boundaries.

People don't understand the stone dynamic. I have been asked if I were a Princess when someone finds out I'm stone. Not the same thing at all.

So a "Pillow Princess just lays there with out touching her partner affectionately..Is that right.??.

Can one be a Stone Princess..???..

I don't think this would describe a pillow princess.

It sounds more like a woman who has a suffered some sexual trauma in the past. I of course have no idea if this is accurate, but I must admit that this was my visceral response to reading this (and subsequently, feeling badly for her, if this is indeed the case).

pillow princess>> waste of femmine energy >> empty w/out passion.

Could you elaborate on what you are saying here?

Are you stating that the term pillow princess means waste of femmine energy and empty w/out passion?

or are you giving stating that this is the negitive image of what people think of when they hear pillow princess?


I'm asking for clarification, because I don't want to misunderstand what I'm reading...

no misunderstanding at all.. i could care less what others think ..its what i think i go by.

Ok.. so you are saying that you think someone who is a pillow princess is a waste of femmine energy >> empty w/out passion.

So is a Top femme who only gives and doesn't receive the same thing?

Speaking as someone who has been both in her life, I have to say that you are wrong on both counts... nothing wasted and in no way passionless...


How sad to be so judgemental and selfish...

Apparently you have never inspired passion in someone who only receives if your experience leads you to this conclusion..

I've been more fortunate and my experience lead me to the conclusion that it's hot as hell for someone to give me the pleasure of pleasing them and vise versa...

~ocean-

The post above feels super judgmental and goes against the part of our TOS about Intolerance where we ask people not to shame others about who they are.

Everyone on this site gets to individually decide how they like to fuck, who they want to fuck, and why they want to fuck. That means that every single person here is PERFECT exactly the way they are and if that means they want to lay on a pillow and get their moan on until the cows come home, it's OK!

It does NOT make people less passionate, less Feminine, or less of ANYTHING simply by fucking differently than you do. It just makes their style of fucking different. Period on that sentence.

I want everyone here to be super careful about imposing their idea of what is ok in bed on other people.

This is where we repeat my favorite mantra: "Other people's orgasms are none of your business."

Thanks,
Medusa
(lover of pillows, being on top, being on bottom, sideways, hanging from the ceiling, doing in in my socks, doing it in a box, and sundry other ways of fucking)

im sry for offending .. i;m not referring to a top femme at all.. .. i'll refrain my opinons :) sry again..

stone
 

ok for me stone means i dont want to be touched in a feminine way on my chest nor seen as thou i have em !
i dont want to be penetrated vag wise ! i could barely type the word even lol ! oh or in the ass too had to toss that in lol !
stone femme to me means a femme that likes stone butches as she doesnt like to eat pussy ! so they fit . but she likes to be penetrated and such and loves her boobs to be boobs unless they just hurt her back ! i personally dance the stone /transgender line most importantly to me im ruff very ruff so id as a hard core butch ! i love that word butch its meaning is diverse ! i like takin the time to get to know folks and they let me know what it means to them ! it is such an odd ice breakin convo i truly must admit ! i love lables in the old days we were just lesbians and that was way too broad ! we need a concenses and a dictionary lol now who will be the aurthor dont all raise u hand at once lol !
and as for emotions id never heard that stone meant cold so to speak ! i cry too much myself lol ! ima giver emotionally financially spiritually and physically and sexually ! i always thought a pillow princess was a high femme that likes to keep her hair and makeup nice at night lol ! using silk pillowcases as to not mess her hair as tangled lol ! idk lol! and thank god we arent all the same its the diversity that makes us all the more interesting !

Well.....
 

I didnt mean my question about a "Pillow Princess" to get "heated"..
I just wanted to understand the term..It is i believe taking and not giving..Always thought that because that is the way she was with me..I could go on but i will stop there..
Thanks for all the comments..I did learn something..

just reading
 

and tagging for later read
Thanks for sharing

Following Stone and tagging too for later reading.

Bump
 

actually, for me, no. I'm not stonefemme but I can be an utter pillow princess at times: I love getting "done" and give by gripping, being loud, squirting, panting, adoring, losing myself in it, etc... but I do also give back by enacting sexually on others (sucking, fisting, mouth on flesh "blowjobs" etc) in the ways they require so I can't call myself stonefemme. But I am a serious pillowqueen/bottom for a good chunk of my bedroom life (I do switch it up happily when asked, but happy to respect boundaries too). I'm proud to be one and love it. And never had a single complaint.

those of us who like to "be on our backs" but aren't strictly stone... it's a useful term. or at least I find it to be so. ;)

Thank you for bumping this! It's exactly what I presumed was here somewhere but hadn't yet looked for and found.

To be honest, I was always unsure of what people meant when they said "stone butch" and even more confused by "stone femme." But I find myself relating to the different descriptions very well.

Part of who I am as a femme is that I respond very strongly to a very masculine sexual energy -- just not in a biological man's body.

Part of my journey as a femme was coming to terms that when I'm sexual with someone, I'm sexual with that person's masculinity -- even if that person is herself not thinking of her body or sexuality as masculine (though I honestly prefer if he does). And I want my lovers to deeply desire that feminine counterpart from me. It has nothing to do with my lover's gender identity: I've had 100% woman-identified lovers who still had a very masculine sexuality. For example, a certain body part might be her clitoris 98% of the time to her, but when she's in bed, she thinks of it completely as her cock, and not just as a term she used as a turn-on in bed, but because that's where her head is. ::ahem::

Am I making any sense?

And to have someone talk about what I'm doing in a feminine/female way is a real turnoff to me. I do not "eat pussy" and to ask me to do so would stop me col - but I have sucked butch cock. I do not ever "fuck" someone else - but I have given some internal pressure that he enjoyed. I do not enjoy being fucked by a dildo - but I do enjoy that same action from another version of butch cock. I do not fondle breasts - but nipple stimulation is enjoyed very much by both men and women. it's not just language: It's MY head space that I need to be in, and the head space I prefer my lover to be in.

There are few boundaries that I have solely because a certain action or body part is (to me) feminizing, as long as it's something that still allows me to maintain a feminine sexual energy that's balancing with a masculine energy. But I also have zero problems respecting my lover's boundaries - but to me that has nothing at all to do with stone or not stone, to me that's what everyone should do for any lover. Some people just don't LIKE certain things, to the point of it being a real turn-off to even imply that they might occur, period. And if I can't respect my lover's boundaries, then I have no business being sexual with that person. So for me, a butch having boundaries or desires that are based on his needs and his body, including needing me to never do certain things that are feminizing to him, even if that means never touching him directly sexually, is NEVER a problem.

Sorry to ramble. I guess what I'm saying is, I realize now (like, past hour "now") that I could be considered a stone femme, using the definition that pertains to relating to my lover only in terms of masculine sexual energy.

Indeed! You make perfectly good sense to me.

Am I making any sense?

I feel alot as u do. I consider myself a stonefemme , we r very similar, I also have a very strong submissive side as well. ^ 5 dance well put.

My responses are above in purple.

I don't need a "label" iether, 99% of the time I don't need to use the term femme either. But words are handy to communicate. I see you use the OFOS "label" and "femme" so you must understand some value to the descriptors. I'm not OFOS so to me personally it's a useless label and don't understand the point in defining that way - because I personally don't need to use it when communicating with someone about preferences.

However, I have particular preferences in the bedroom, therefore I do need words to describe those preferences.

I used have this argument with one of my exes who does not ID as anything. Just dyke. I personally see her as a butch. And probably one of the most old fashioned I've ever been with. She doesn't like "labels" but she uses them all the time: step mom, sister, woman and dyke. All labels. It's just labels that mean something to her. She used to take the piss out of me for using femme (good naturedly). I finally told her that it's all well and good when it's easy to say "I'm attracted to girly girls" and just go with that, but when your attractions aren't common and the way you express yourself sexually is not 'normative' (You don't care what kind of sex you have, it's all good to you and you don't have fetishes or have strong preferences) then you need words to be able to describe them. It's very hard to order a chocolate milkshake if you can't use the words chocolate or milkshake. Whereas if you don't care what you get you can walk up to a counter and say 'food please' and it all works for you."

She said "oh. good point."
Because I have a different definition of butch than lots of people... for me butch is just someone who has a preference for boys or masculine clothes and has a cock even just some of the time. And that's it. nothing else. If I'm talking about those I find most attractive, they are cheeky, don't take life too seriously, dress casual-dapper mostly. lots of tats. smudgy black eyeliner and like to try new things. And a kinky fucker. but that's just personal. Notice the words "cheeky" (personality trait label), casual-dapper (dress sense label) and Kinky (sexual genera label).
I prefer certain sexual dynamics and rough sex. I have words that would describe that short hand. these are useful as a launch point to start conversations when they are in context with others, but I don't walk around saying "I'm a sadistic switchy submissive fuck doll" as an introduction. I very even rarely use the word "femme". But on line we can't interact the way we do in person and looking for others on line... it's usually where people whip out the short hand. That's why you'll see it so much in a forum for people who fall under those categories. outside this arena, I almost never use those terms. I talk about what movie I watched last and what grades I got on my finals and swapping stories and having a laugh.

the online stuff doesn't really reflect my in the flesh life. :)

Bumping this thread, I need to come back and put my two cent's later. This is very interesting and needs to be bumped now and again....

Moi
 

Stone Femme, and not a pillow princess. ;)

MUAH !

Heh. I was thinking of posting here but eventually it looked familiar to me and so I searched and found myself. Much of what I said above remains the same now.

I've run into enough variations with butches who call themselves stone and those who do not that I mainly take that word to mean I need more info before proceeding in certain directions, while erring on the side of caution. I think I tend to do this with most butches unless I get like a hundred percent have-at green light.

I'm really glad people know their boundaries because what really sucks is when people don't know their boundaries til they've been crossed. I guess to me stone equates to boundaries more than identity or whom I would date or whom that person would date. I'm not stone, but I certainly wouldn't kick a stone butch out of bed. Or a stone femme either for that matter.

Chemistry is magical - to me the boundaries, the different dynamics between two people - it's just all part of that same magic - something largely unique to me and that other person. What acts are performed or how or what parts are treated what ways etc - all of that is part of the natural flow and the magic, the play of darkness and light, the energy exchange when the chemistry's right. To me the chemistry is the main deal, and everything else can be worked with or around - and trust is part - the biggest part - of that.

I can really relate to that. the first three female lovers I had were stone. and I did not want to penetrate anyone. I was very slowly introduced to it by my fourth whom made me understand it wasn't feminising. once I understood that, that the inside of a butch felt...well... *butch* I was good to go.

I didn't ID as stonefemme then as it never really came up as an ID up for discussion. I didn't start seeing it until later. I saw it as just a factual boundary. Not really an ID, at the time. Sort of like, if someone isn't into anal sex. or nipple clamps.

Since then it hasn't really been a big deal if someone is stone or not in terms of penetration. But I do need someone who's willing to let me feel their flesh cock swell in my mouth. cause I can't not ever not have that again. But as for being penetrated... if they don't want it... ok. plenty of other things to do for them.

But since I am happy to penetrate those who want it, I can't call myself a stonefemme. And since 80% submissive and bottom... I go for the label of fuckdolly or pillowqueen.

so. Chemistry IS the big deal. completely. I've had a huge learning curve about the difference between a dominant and a top. And it makes a heap of sense now.

You know, this one is going to be difficult for me to express, only because so many of you have touched bases on what I wanted to say. But let me give it a try anyway... Perhaps, in a different view.
I recall my childhood years as always wishing I was a boy, I grew up with 97% male entities around me, though I worshiped my Mother. So basically everything about me was male identified. Except when my Mother put the dresses on and shooed me off to school. But I quickly figured out how to out smart her, (or so I thought) by putting on shorts under the dress and as I was shooed out the door I would pull off the dress and put on my t-shirt and toss the dress into the bushes knowing that I had to run home quickly so I could put the dress on as if I had been wearing it all day. (Mom stopped forcing me to wear them when she found them in the bushes daily is what she admitted to me much later in life) <~What a Woman!


In my teens/young twenties. I was just one of the boys, sports, cars, surfing, checking out woman. And I also remember my Mother taking me to Sears and allowing me to shop in the men's department, even allowing me to wear boxers because I would steal my brothers new ones that she bought them, so she just let me pick my own because theirs were to big for me anyway. Flash forward to my first relationship, She respected my masculinity and allowed me to be the aggressor and become the male identified person that I was. So I guess you could say I was lucky to have a woman that was Stone Femme and we both appreciated each others company and space. Now my next relationship was short lived, as I tried for weeks to explain to her that she didn't do anything wrong, I wasn't punishing her and that I did adore her, but didn't want to be touched in the places she so wanted to touch me on. I think it was Des'd that expressed that familiar experience. I felt just as bad, and even questioned if I was doing this correctly, or if I was being selfish, mean, or fridge d. So that ended as quickly as it started.


I pretty much took a break from relationships and just concentrated on life in general. Hanging with the older Butch gendered that took the time to teach me the old school ethics and expectations to which I grew very fond of, and I cherish the time and labor they put into making it easier for the rest of us to just walk into too. Teaching me that It was okay to question, but I had the right to state my expectations as well, So became the entitlement of calling myself a Stone Butch, and being relaxed to state that this was my preferences, this is what I wanted, and this is who I am. Now at the present, I am a true believer in knowing that what ever makes you (the person you are comfortable as) is who you need to be true too. I am very comfortable in my own skin, I look male most of the time, the few that actually look deeper and identify me as female, empowerment to them, they took the time to notice, and I don't get all bent out of shape because the pegged me, lol.


So yes, I'm top, yes I am masculine identified, yes I am a woman, yes I still have menopausal heat flashes that are pesky. And yes. I am proud of being a Butch, and labeled Transgendered identified, and Stone. Everyone has brought very vital and interesting points to the thread and I wish I could touch on every one of them, but y'all did the definition justice and make it much easier for others who are trying to figure out who they are, or where they belong. Bravo to all of you for the honesty and dedications!


I'm just happy to be who I am, and don't intend to be what everyone else wants me to be. Life is meant to be lived, and you have to make it comfortable to live in. Be YOU!

Perhaps I danced around the subject, but then again, everyone else said what I wanted to, but better than I. So thank you.

Great, great post Blaze! Glad you took the time to write it!