It's not an Ender shut up or fuck off, I was merely voicing what it felt like to me.

Thanks for listening

by being misunderstood, I don't think it's being insinuated anyone is "dim" by the way. I think it's just the being able to see a picture one way and another, shifting the cube back and forth.

There's certain kinds of layerd irony in the way some of my friends take the piss that I have trouble understanding and I sometimes get upset and distressed. Mainly because of my cultural background and upbringing. Sometimes they have to re-assure me, it not meant that way.


I'm including a link to Nighty Night if some of you enjoy dark humour and satire.
I think you'll agree the absurdity shows more here and there's absolutely no suggestion they represent all women, nor are they encouraging people to treat pregnant people in this manner by abusing a pregnant woman.



this is much better written. and yes, I agree, bulldog and heart, know your audience or it doesn't work! but I still don't think that video was supporting rape, no more than this video is supporting the abuse of pregnant women.

See, I don't think so. I don't think there is a cultural impression of older lesbians as sex-craved cougars. That's a tried-and-true older straight woman stereotype. (Mrs. Robinson anyone?)

Older lesbians are stereotyped as sexless, humorless, birkenstock-wearing, man-hating, granola-eating separatists. Rarely have I seen older lesbians portrayed as sexual in any manner.

Seriously, this clip just makes no sense to me (older lesbian that I am). To do satire, you gotta know your tropes. And in not hitting its satirical mark, this clip ends up being pretty damn offensive.

Heart

Hi Heart and thanks for your post,

To your first question I would response: No it doesn't work. Like I said, this guy shouldn't quit his day job any time soon. However, I don't feel that the reason this attempt at satire failed was because the author of it was ignorant lesbians, issues women face etc. I think the reason it failed was that he just didn't make it blatant enough that he was attempting to satirise this common misperception in every day society. As you said yourself, that is always the risk of satire (and arguably it happens, to some degree, with any satirical piece).

Neither am I. But, actually, my point was not that it was akin to the genius of Candide or Les femmes savantes, but that to call the author out on misoginy himself is incorrect. Yes, he wasn't all that successful in his attempt, but let's at least recognise it for what it is. Also, there are cases where failed satires can be salvaged for a better purpose. That is part of what I am arguing as well. Do you not think that it may be more productive to approach the issue with a cool head, than with anger or throwing insults? And if it were an attempt to degrade women, would such an approach not have a better chance of gaining sympathy than mud-slinging?

why is not agreeing with the video or disliking it = emotional reactions, anger and the lack of a cool head?

curious.

just to piggy back
 

This is where it feels like to me that whole some guy telling me to chill out and have a sense of humor, like shhh girl don't you see the comedy in it fuck if it's at your expense after all you are just

a

girl..

Our experiences on the matter are different, then. I can think of a few instances in American sitcoms and other television shows where older Lesbians are portrayed this way. Out of curiosity, are you speaking about your experience on a day to day basis, or in mainstream media, or both?

I haven't seen people focusing on the video makers themselves. I have seen them focused on the end product. Not sure why there is a need to defend the video makers or understand what their intent was. Are the "creators" and supposed art form (satire) of this product more important to you than the subject matter?

Their end product sucks. Actually the main stereotype it is perpetuating is that young girls are just fuckholes. I agree with Heart that actually this so-called lesbian stereotype that apparently they are trying to "mock" isn't really all that prevalent (except for the bad clothes and hairdos). They don't appear to know much about lesbians and they don't appear to know the potential damaging consequences of missing their mark.

Actually, I was in part referring back to softness's comment on the "emasculated little erection" or whatever the wording was, along with a few instances where others claimed to be speaking out of anger, if I recall correctly. I can go back and find them, if you'd like.

I've seen a few people focusing their anger on the video makers themselves. I hesitate to go back and pull posts because last time I did that on the b-f.com forum people told me not to quote them. So if people don't actually mind, I don't mind going back and doing so, if that's what you're actually asking me to do.

I do think that the creators and art do dictate the subject matter to a degree. The final result may be separate, yes, and it is entirely possible to read any work of art in myriad of different ways, sometimes entirely against what the author intended.

Let us say they don't know the potentially damaging consequences. What do you think an appropriate way of addressing that would be?

um. I'm kinda in this disagreement too. but no one seems to be pointing out the same things to me and it's sort of wierding me out, folks. I don't want to read into that and I'd like some reassurance.

it's actually cause I smell, isn't it. you all won't fight with me cause I haven't bathed today.


actually I went back and looked at the other film that was on second city. mn. well. personally that was american collage style humour a la Adam sandler. Not Satire. So now I'm thinking second city has seriously dropped in their caliber of comedy since I was a teen/20's.

lame ass. not funny.

that said, I still don't think that first piece was promoting rape. Just poorly executed and badly written. which I think is a bigger insult than "offensive." But that's me.

For me it does, grant it I don't get this kind of humor, also for me I don't feel like you are trying to school me on sattire or it's ha ha moments.

nor does it feel like to me you are schooling me on lesbian experience.

That's the difference, and well coming from a guy it irks me more so I was honest about it

ah ok. gocha. I get you. :)



EnderD, it appears I am more well done spoken than you. so ner.

I'm speaking of my own contextual knowledge as an older lesbian. Yes, that includes personal experience, but also exposure to literature, visual media and culture, social networks, etc.

Ender -- your argument that cool heads would be better than "mud slinging" feels like it betrays your more academic arguments about satire. As a woman and a lesbian my answer to this question is, no. No, cooler heads do not necessarily prevail; no, objecting strenuously is not "mud-slinging;" no, I will not bank my anger if I think women are being degraded, and no, I am not interested in gaining "sympathy," in the face of offense, nor is my job always to school the offender. Sometimes all that is required is to take it down as loudly and messily as need be.

I'm not saying this is that situation, but calls for women (or any degraded group), to be calm are guaranteed to bring out the warrior in me because I can sniff out injustice like a bloodhound.

Heart

well i do disagree with you but i choose to discuss towards people who are like me!!! you id as a woman and are a part of the oppressed group ...i am not comfortable that my experience in life gives me the freedom to openly debate it with you!!! i am not an older lesbian, i am an older trans guy!!! when i read posts that come from guys like me that seem to run defensively in a passive manner to avoid confronting misogyny i feel more inclined to engage in the conversation with them!!!

hope that makes sense!!! :)

ohhh. yeah ok.

fairy muff.

you wanna arm wrestle instead then?

I know I'm off topic and I do not care. I just have to say that when the brunette got into the stair-chair my first thought was "ooooh, I hope she falls down the stairs!". And she did.

I am satisfied.

EnderD_, to be "schooled" on satire is, frankly, off-putting. It seems as though you are giving short shrift to this community's intelligence, wisdom, discernment and experience.

Additionally, a call for "cooler heads" by a male, among mostly women, is offensive and bespeaks of male superiority and privilege.

Anger is not a bad thing. After all, anger propelled the 19th Amendment, among many other rights that have been gained. Were it not for anger, mothers, sisters and wives would still be required to provide proof of a male relative's consent before being allowed to buy property or open even a checking account. I think this community knows what to do with its anger. It has, unfortunately, lots of experience with it.

you might also like

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=xRhD6qsQC3w&feature=fvsp

it's the entire second series to green wing. batty, weird and awkward english humour.

Set up is a bit difficult but one point important: Guy, who is a doctor, took the blonde Head of Administration out for a fast lay then they both discovered after the fact that she's his mother.

point two, the scottish insane woman is madly in love with the red haired doctor in a coma. she's jealous of his gf so is trying to either marry him while he's in a coma or steal some sperm to get pregnant.

it's very absurd and nonsequiture at times but it's fabulous :)

I tried to watch it but

I have no idea who this Channel 4 is, but they need to seriously check their bullshit meanypants hatred of Canada. *irate*

I am going to make a thread about this!

suck!!!

that means I can't watch 4od when I move back. grrrr.

london drives me mental but not having english comedy at my disposal is going to blow. I won't be able to get BBCi player either. radio yes, but not tv.

bullocking bullox. stupid licensing laws. great. I'm stuck with ancient episodes of red dwarf and corrination street on PBS when I move back. fuckitygibblits.

Naw, you can probably still find reruns of "Are You Being Served?". That show is great.

I wonder if someone who is smart with computers can set you up on a proxy server / fake IP addy situation so that the internet will THINK you are allowed to watch stuff that is apparently being kept top secret from Canadians.

not a bad idea!!

I need my "Mock the week" fix. And I'll still get british movies. thank you, I'll look into that!

Lesbian is my identity as it is for many members here. And the admin has now included anti-lesbian/lesbian-phobic rhetoric in the Planet's TOS along with transphobia, sexism, sizeism, homophobia, racism, etc.

I agree that there are many blatantly offensive, crude, deceitful, lying, pornographic videos on the internet
that are quite offensive. However, there are members here that find this video offensive from a lesbian-phobic stance.

I wouldn't care for a clip that is offensive to any of the identities represented here. I feel like your comment is minimizing (or just plain disregarding other identities) the effect that the clip can or does have on those of us who do identify as lesbian and wanted to make our reasons clear.

There is nothing appealing about taking advantage of someone who is puking and intoxicated. Blech!

Further, now I'm depressed because I'm 42 and "could" be a Cougar???

I was kind of wondering exactly that ....I mean, I did too .. Admittedly I didn't have time to stick around and say it a couple more times ..!

Yup, you do as a human... and also you and all lesbian members are now covered under a revised TOS contract on The Planet:

5. No Intolerant Behavior! - Racially offensive, Sizist, Sexist, Transphobic, Classist, Ableist, Elitist, Misogynist, Homophobic, Lesbian-phobic or otherwise hateful speech is NOT acceptable here. If you make an asshattish or hateful comment, you can expect your fellow community members to want to engage with you about it. Also, making a comment that is racist, ageist, sexist, sizist, Lesbian-phobic or generally offensive and then adding "It's just my opinion" or "It's my First Amendment Right!" does NOT negate your personal accountability for what you just said.

offensive
not funny in the least

This is nothing against you, TickledPink. I'm just using your post to make a point. "Taking advantage" of someone would be more akin to someone having a few drinks that merely lowers their inhibitions, but they are still fully capable of giving or withdrawing consent. When someone is completely intoxicated, as depicted in the video, they are incapable of giving consent, in a legal sense. The act then rises to the level of - and indeed is - a sexual assault. Of the felony variety.

Right on. I'm glad the logic of not being able to be offended unless one is a member of the targeted group didn't apply to Lincoln and slavery and Johnson and civil rights.

Well yeah except that, in the words of the players, what they wanted from these overly intoxicated straight women, was for them to "lick my twat"

Now, anyone who thinks that a falling over intoxicated woman or man, with or without experience, is going to be capable of doing that with any actual "fun" results.. raise your hand... :0
Seriously, yes blech and yes stupid..But yes satire... very badly done satire.....

I just got a mental picture of you in a jury box, Olympic-sized scorecard in hand, ready to rate the vic's performance, based on testimony from the perp :readfineprint:

Seriously, though, I just don't find depictions of sexual assault/sexual assault scenarios, regardless of how well-crafted or executed, regardless of vic gender or age - amusing. The lesbians-as-perps angle was particularly disturbing and it concerns me that the non-knowing will take it as truth more often than not. People viewed this video with different 'eyes'. Those were mine.

Yeah, I agree with you Stearns. I don't see how depicting sexual assault could ever be amusing or effective as satire no matter how well-crafted it was.

Some people seem to be implying that people objecting to this video don't get it was supposed to be satire or that we don't see the subtleties. Yeah, I think pretty much everyone gets it was supposed to be satire. That's not what is important to many of us.

I do have to wonder at what point will negative representations of lesbians (or gay men, or bisexuals, or transsexuals, etc) in fictional media be considered okay? How many GOOD representations of lesbians do you need to balance out one bad one? When will poking fun at lesbian stereotypes no longer be considered too taboo?

I mean, 15 years ago when there were no (that I can think of) representations of lesbians on television - I can see this video being a HUGE deal. Like "Oh nice, you all finally get around to putting us on teevee and you pull this lesbian cougar shit. Assholes." But now? Really?

Lesbians are portrayed on television more and more - so you can't -really- expect that every portrayal of a lesbian is going to be a positive one. It's actually a little unreasonable to demand that. You can't expect entertainment media to treat you with kid gloves forever.

I don't find it funny.. I turned it off at the passed out frat girl part..

But I can see why some people would find it humorous..

My sexuality is not a sacred cow... If comedians/snl/second city can make fun of other people.. Rednecks,Mom Jeans, Republicans, Blonds, Brit Spears, then why not lesbians...

I don't like that kind of humor.. I have an embarrasment factor... When people make asses of them selves, It embarrasses me..

You should see me react to Borat and the other movie..

ugh...

Wait a sec -- let's not start with the whole humorless-lesbians-should-just-get-over-themselves stereotype. I specifically said that the Simpsons skewering of lesbians is successful satire -- meaning its damn funny. I can also remember falling off my chair laughing at Kat Clinton's ribbing menopausal lesbians to hysterical effect.

Absolutely stupid...I wasted a couple of minutes of my time watching this hideous, dumbass video................ :beatcomputer: