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What to do with Pakistan?
This country provided a safe haven for Osama Bin Laden while taking money from US taxpayers.
This country encourages it's 98% Muslim majority to kidnap and kill it's 1% Christian minority. This country exports terrorists to UK, France, Sweden, Germany, and America. If you are the POTUS, what would you do about Pakistan? Me: Cut off all aid Withdraw all troops. Let whichever enemies they have do whatever. I still don't know what to do about our convoys in Afganistan |
I have no idea about Pakistan except to continue engaging them in a constructive manner. They have nukes, so we must look at them differently. India also has nukes. There has been border wars for years and years and they don't like each other at all. Letting enemies deal with Pakistan makes me nervous when I think about the possiblity of nuclear weapons being used by and/or against Pakistan.
We have safe haven for 'terrorists' in this country. We allow the christian majority to oppress and kill folks that don't agree with their particular version of christianity. We invaded and destroyed a country for no damn good reason (Iraq). I do know what I would do about Afghanistan: start the withdrawal of every single military person AND every single mercenary...ooppppsss private security people. Obama says we will start withdrawal in June or July this year. I also think no military base should be there........I'm not sure what Obama has to say about that. A consulate and a few Marines should be left. I also think the same thing should be done in Iraq.....all US troops and mercenaries should be withdrawn. No military base in Iraq. A consulate and the marines who protect them should be there. |
One of the things that always enters my mind concerning Pakistan is the assination of Benazir Bhutto.
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Did Pakistan know where bin Laden was? I'd say yes and I'd say several nations probally did. We may have even known he was there for a while, but I'm sure politics had to be worked out before we moved in. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't want him there and a 'deal' was worked out with us.
Do I feel bad that he was killed? Nope. I'm not out celebrating in the streets but I do feel a small justice has been served. I've read a lot of people saying in essense they couldn't condone his murder, but bin Laden wasn't a nice guy. He was an evil man with an agenda, much like Hitler. The United States is a pretty forgiving nation, I get it. It's been ten years and a lot of people have died over the 'war against terror'. But I think back to the day the Towers (our nation) was attacked. Thousands of people died gruesomely. People jumped out of the Twin Towers to their deaths. I'll never forget the sounds of their bodies impacting the ground, sounding like small explosions. A person has to be facing something pretty horrific to jump to their death. People burned. People were ground to bits to never be found in the collapse. People were on planes going on the merry way. I can only imagine their fear as the terrorists took over the planes, waiting to be rescued or trying to regain control of the plane. Those people were our fellow Americans. They were someones Daddy or Mommy, someone's son or daughter, husband or wife. So no, I don't feel bad he was murdered. I'm sure the families of the people who were murdered on 9-11 don't feel bad that he is dead either. Also, I want to add this. When we invaded Iraq (the second time), I was very against this war but a couple of years ago I worked with someone from Iraq. I asked her if she was against the war/invasion. She said, "No, I'm not against it at all. Sadam was killed and that is a great thing. Now the U.S. hasn't kept some of the promises they made, but otherwise, it's much better over there." It was a great conversation and I learned a lot from her about how the Iraq people view our government. So perhaps in a small way, the war was worth it? I'm still undecided but after her conversation I did feel a bit better about it. ~~~shark~~~~~~~~ |
To all those Americans here who think what we've done is just as bad as OsamaBin Motherfucking Laden: You people should really try to make me understand this better by leaving my evil country and go live with Osama's family and start blowing up women and children in the name of Allah, if we're just as bad. Disgraceful. All you need to do is look at the type of country we've produced, then look at the type of country the Bin Laden mindset has produced (like Afganistan under taliban) and what arguement do I need to make? Where people can mostly say whatever they want in public vs one where you can be beaten down in the street by religious poliice for not wearing the right clothes or listening to music? So why am I thinking bad thoughts about radical moslems? Blow me sir.
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Here's some advice: when you're going to copy and paste posts from other forums don't pick the ones posted by users named things like "Anonymous Coward". A username like that is probably a good indicator that their posts might be offensive or ignorant.
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I think it's silly that people are now getting all assy about the billions of aid we send them because of Osama bin Laden. How about before we knew he was there? All of those human rights violations weren't enough to stop the aid? That's some weird logic. Quote:
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Don't forget (or, I'm not sure you ever knew this), but they let us carry out military operations in their country. We need them a lot more than they need us. Quote:
If that's all you've got (other than to blow you), I'm not going to put much effort into reasoning with you. |
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Pop, With all due respect, I find this spewing of anger so offensive on so many different levels. I am one of those Americans who is very concerned with the path our leaders are taking us down. I am not one of those linear thinkers who falls for "my country right or wrong". One of the greast things about this country and the people who comprise it, is our ability and freedom to look at things. to question things, to struggle with the grey areas involved in the decisions that are made and the ways in which it impacts on our lives and the lives of others in the world. We may have better lives by our standards than others but we also have a society that put profits above all else. Profit above people, profit above health care, profit above equality, profit above <insert choice here>. And when we seek to impose our ideals, our beliefs, our ways on others there are consequences to bear. "Terrorist groups" arent created in a vacuum. They come about from oppression from within and without. There is a ever growing grey area in my mind as to the motivations and methods that are being used in the world today, on both a micro and macro scale, and national and international level. This grey area didnt materialize without a reason. The reason is some stuff just doesnt make sense. Those with power, the media, whoever can put a good marketing spin on things but when there is an absence of logic and reason and truth.....hopefully one struggles with the reality, rather than accepting it unquestioned. Hate and fear are very unpleasant things that become manifested in very unpleasant ways. You dont stop it by becoming part of it. You stop it by stepping outside of it. |
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There are some really sharp folks here with good stuff to share, but that won't do you much good if you're not open to really hearing it. We appreciate replies like those that follow.....of Kobi and Semantics......for trying to reason without responding with attacks. Consider your words and intent carefully. Thinker (moderator) |
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I'm just thankful to live in a country that doesn't execute someone because they're gay or lesbian. I'm hopeful the marriage issue will change. |
The "aid" goes to corrupt government officials, just like it does in every country we bribe with money. They don't give a shit about their people, but their people are the ones who are dying. Same story, different country...
That said, I think Pakistani civilians would be overjoyed if we withdrew our troops: "The Brookings Institution suggests that drone strikes may kill "10 or so civilians" for every militant killed.The Pakistani military has stated that most of those killed were hardcore Al-Qaeda and Taliban militants. However Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik said "Drone missiles cause collateral damage. A few militants are killed, but the majority of victims are innocent citizens." (Wikipedia - Pakistan drones) So when are we going to add the U.S. to the axis of evil? Oh, wait -- we're the WHEEL... Quote:
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research guides/sites
i found these during a search for constitution, governance, law and justice, sustainable development, et c.-
http://www.nyulawglobal.org/Globalex/Pakistan.htm http://www.loc.gov/law/help/guide/nations/pakistan.php |
An article in the NYTimes today that one neighbor thought that the reason the people in the Bin Laden house were so security minded might be hat they had killed someone back in their home village. The implication is that they were afraid of reprisals. So there are other reasons for people to be security-minded in Pakistan. i am sure there are many. Anyway, it sounds like the neighbors weren't hiding his identity.
Edited to add: the U.S. government has announced that they haven't found evidence that the Pakistani govt knew where Bin Laden was. |
I see a lot of passion and anger and hurt going on in this thread. I am sad that we aim some of it at each other. I would just like to say that it is important not to get caught up in all-or-nothing-thinking. As Kobi said, there are shades of grey and distinctions to be made. There are lots of legitimate reasons to be angry and upset about the wars and conflicts between the US and other countries, as well as the injustices going on within our own shores. However, painting these issues with an all-good or all-bad brush tends to keep us away from the truth and stuck in our bad feelings. That's all I have for now.
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You have repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, insulted Muslims and their religion, and for some reason I've yet to understand, you seem to be getting away with it. What is it, exactly, that you're trying to prove here? Following in Daddy's footsteps (Mafiosa my ass) are we, or are you simply a nasty, ignorant, racist with a particular grudge against Muslims? Either way, motherfuckinpopcorninthesofa, you're talking out of your ass. Words |
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Earlier today I dealt with the offensive post. We ask members not to further comment on posts once they have been moderated. Please contact me via PM if you have any questions. Thanks, Thinker (moderator) |
No questions Thinker, just a bit confused as when I tried to report an offensive post in this particular thread, I got the following message:
PLEASE NOTE: We ***DO NOT*** moderate posts in the Red Zone unless it is a death threat, threats of bodily harm, something illegal, etc. If you are reporting a post that you find problematic, the entire purpose of The Red Zone is to give you the opportunity to address the post YOURSELF by engaging with the person who posted it. Either way, my apologies. I'm sure there'll be lots more opportunities for me to speak to popcorn directly. Words |
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This particular discussion is not in the RZ (but the message shows up anyway). I can certainly understand your confusion there and appreciate you explaining that. Thanks again, Thinker (moderator) |
Pilot refuses flight to Muslims
Posted: May 08, 2011 3:14 PM PDT Updated: May 08, 2011 3:15 PM PDT CHARLOTTE, NC (WSOC/CNN) - Two Muslim leaders were removed from a plane after the pilot refused to fly with them on board. It happened Friday on an Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight. The two imams were headed to North Carolina for a conference on prejudice against Muslims when they were removed from the plane by TSA agents. The pilot said passengers were uncomfortable with the two men, who were wearing traditional Muslim clothing. Airport security screened again the two men and cleared them, but the pilot refused to let them back on. ----- This is just bullshit! My hope is that this pilot is at least reprimanded by his employer- and I wouldn't blame these men for filing a law suit. So, would it be OK for a pilot to refuse flying some queers, too? I tiink the passengers having the problem should have been removed and put on another flight, if anything. And it is bullshit they were scxreened for a second time. http://www.kfvs12.com/story/14595636...ght-to-muslims |
I wish I could say I was shocked by the postings and the language which is being used to describe human beings.
As many of you know, I work in Peace - Primarily with children around the world and gratefully in countries such as Pakistan -- The term *Paki* is beyond offensive. I am not going to get into a political debate about why all of this is so very wrong. It makes me sad. I leave you with this... Art work by a child who might not be around to create her art for me this year - because we american's find it necessary (not all) to devalue lives and forget the faces. We think we are such a huge world, but really are very small. Here is Peace - from the eyes of a child in Pakistan. http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1305042437 This little child - maybe she can teach you something. Now, I am off to read the confederate flag subject -- this is MY community. I know we do not have to all get along and I know we all are different in so many beautiful ways. But to be proud to be hateful and disregard human beings... Is such a disappointment. The face of the enemy! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_B_2b6z6A4k...girl5_3868.jpg |
[As many of you know, I work in Peace - Primarily with children around the world and gratefully in countries such as Pakistan -- The term *Paki* is beyond offensive.]
I personally thank you Julie for your contributions for peace. I hope the world will one day be a better place. Maybe people are offended by the shortening of these nationalities ?: Scot = from Scotland Pole = from Poland German = from Germany Brit = from Britain Aussie = from Australia Finn = from Finland Swede = from Sweden All used without offence. I think its because people associate the word Paki with racism, perhaps its time the word was reclaimed. The fault lies with those who use the word offensively in the first place not with those who use it without malice. |
It's not YOUR word to' reclaim.
WTF is wrong witn people proclaiming what words they can and will claim usable??? DISLIKE! |
You should go read wikipedia so that way you'll know it's a derogatory word, ffs stop using these racist slurs!
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WWWS?
Pa**
Pa** may refer to: Paki, California, former settlement in Butte County - Pa**, a derogatory term for a person from South Asia, particularly Indians, Pakistanis-and Bangladeshis Pākī (c. 1808–1855), a Hawaiian high chief during the reign of King Kamehameha III |
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For example: German = Germany...really? That is a shortening of the German nationality? So what is the original then, if not German? Germany is the name of the country, German is the name of the people. How the fuck is that a short form of anything? Same with Finn and Swede. Nobody says "That guy is a Finnish" or "That guy is a Swedish." Finn and Swede are the nouns used to denote a citizen of Finland or Sweden or someone of Finnish or Swedish heritage...they are not just a shorter version of another word. "He is a Finn" vs. "He is Finnish" It's like "He is an Englishman" vs. "He is English." You don't say "He is an English." Same thing for Pole and Scot: "He is a Pole" vs. "He is Polish." Nobody goes around saying "He is a Polish" or "He is a Scottish." Don't be ridiculous. I would argue that Brit can be offensive depending on how it's used, especially in former British colonies where we might be referring to the British in a negative way. But overall, it's a word that has its stem from the British themselves, and not typically or always used to denote inferiority or negativity. Same with Aussie. However, if someone were to call me a "Frog" or a "Kraut," as a "white European" you better believe I'd be offended. Same if I heard someone call a Pole a "Polack," that would be just as offensive despite that Poles are white Europeans. Using any slur for ANY race or ANY ethnicity, yes including all ethnic Europeans, is disrespectful, offensive and shameful. The word for citizens of Pakistan or people of Pakistani heritage is Pakistani and you can say "He is a Pakistani" just as well as "He is Pakistani" just the same as you could say "He is Greek" and "He is a Greek." There's no way to justify the use of that particular slur to refer directly to or address Pakistanis as not racist, no matter how much you might try. |
For the life of me, I am not understanding why it is so difficult to "hear" that something is offensive to other people.
Just by virtue of how sensitive relations are these days between Arab countries and Muslims and the degree of racist attitudes and actions, I think it just a good idea to believe what POC are saying about this. |
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It wasn't that long ago that the list of countries represented at the UN who approved of execution was released. I recall being surprised that Haiti, a country who was at that time ( and is still currently) trying to rebuild from such a huge disaster much due to the aid coming from the USA and other countries, is among those countries on the UN list. Here's that list: http://www.whatthefolly.com/2010/11/...gender-people/ ( scroll to bottom for 79 countries)... just for a source. Sorry for the derail. I guess it just made me think that if we should cut aid... cut it to ALL tyrants. |
After a very long day, I'm very drowsy, can't keep up with reading this rather interesting Debate..
I will "Explain" my vote very briefly, for tonight, and subscribe.. You'll have to brush off any misunderstanding until I'm wide awake... So, that being said.. Like quite a few, maybe they did....maybe they didn't....I'm leaning towards highly suspicious but not quite sure [why else would they take so fucking long to shoot him?*besides profit!*] Let's take this "Fabulously Powerful" country called the U.S., ok.... Bear with me... Some [Warren Jeffs comes to mind]Fundamentalist Mormons, marrying their cousin-sister-aunties, and banishing the potential rival son-uncle-nephews...in Enclaves that most of us had no fucking clue... Not terrorists, true....but, we had no clue.... another example, take a pick of Serial killers.... My favorite? Zodiac.... Why? Fucker to this day has yet to be found, within our own country.... Smart cookie... And of course, there's the very touchy part... Illegal Immigrants, some acting out as "Mules", not all are south of the border... Some violate Visas[work, student, etc...] Some have dubious intentions, and some are simply trying to slide under the wire to live with their same-sex partner and 2 kids. After all the U.S. forbids gay marriage and gay rights within Immigration.... Immigration idea being said, Who knows if private rich Pakistani's paid of private easily bribed poor Soldiers to protect their "rich" enclave, so they can have....what they might've considered, the Honor to be Host to a man who leads a fanatic cause against what is perceived in some places the most powerful Bully worldwide. I say this because Persian, Middle Eastern, and Arab hospitality is notoriously known, a Guest is usually treated as King, regardless of known or stranger, once immediate danger is written off..... That Intelligence was leaked by a greedy guard, higher up Pakistani Gov. maybe? Ok, Thats plausable too..... But you really can't expect Pakistan to be aware of every Minute detail going on in a country where if u even dare pass the Khyber Pass anonymously, and live to tell, you're fuckin' Blessed. Even we have issues, and our immigration laws are slowly choking the statue of liberty..... {btw, i thoroughly agree on the "paki" crap, i cringed with every time i read it...especially when someone treated it so casual...it's as if someone just shrugged off calling me a spic, or half-breed :badmood:} g'night... :tiredcomputer: |
war is hell .. maybe the blame should be on those who hide behinde their wives and children as well..he had no right being there w. his family KNOWING that he is a wanted man .. he should have bucked up and lived alone .. also .. of course they knew he was there ..
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