I did not call it abuse. Abuse is imminent danger. Discomfort and embarrassment is not imminent danger. Plus, calling child welfare authorities often exposes families to racist, sexist, classist, homophopbic systems that compound trauma, have no understanding of diversity in families, and do not have children's best interests at heart, but are mostly concerned with liability. I'm not personally comfortable with this parent's decisions and feel it violates boundaries, but that does not mean I am labeling it abusive.

i have a male straight friend that cross dresses. Him and his wife go out together. Their kids are around the same age as this kid and know all about daddy's fetish. Being a furry can and for some is a non sexual fetish just like cross dressing. It can be a form of expression that has no sexual impact but gives a person a chance to express themselves freely. I feel/think people opinions here need some fresh outlooks. I am off to go splish splash with the man cub as a transgendered slave which he knows and understands about because he is communicated with. Personally I think/feel the girlfriends transgendered status is as unimportant as the kids sexual orientation.

I still do not see where Okie has stated the child has been exposed to anything sexual. Where was that stated? Is it being assumed due to a belief that furrie = sexual and therefore the child must know what is going on?

I too see NOWHERE in the OP's words where the child exposed to anything sexual, tails and collars do not equate sex. I find it ridiculous that now the adults have to get smaller collars?? WTF, how about we not expose kids to individuals that are inked, or pierced gawwwwd knows that may equate sex (NOT)

I reread the original post and Okie seems more disturbed over

a. The tail

B. The huge lock

C. The furrie part

NONE of these descriptors indicate sexual relations are happening in front of the child.

So, can someone clarify where some people are coming to the conclusion that the child is being exposed to the parents "yiffing"? Cause I can't find it anywhere!

Couldn't agree more with this.

Maybe just maybe he isnt being "pushed" maybe just maybe this chile is being taught to learn how to be open minded. His father has a right to expose his child to different lifestyles with open communication at all times. I would hope he would at least because frankly there is NOTHING wrong With a child being taught to accept people regardless of how different or freakish others may see them. We dont really know since Dad is not here to give us his side or explain to us why he is choosing to expose said child to his relarionship choices.

I gargantee that is getting more sexual esposare vía music, television, & video games than a lock & tail.

Justin Beiber per example, Twiglight, Hannah Montana girl, Teen Mom Toddlers & Tiaras.

a sidebar to the original question
 

I don't know anyone who's a furry, and it doesn't appeal to me personally, but I don't have an issue with it. I also don't think that kids knowing that their parents are sexual beings is a bad thing.

What all of it comes down to, for me, is communication and a basic respect for the child's feelings.

To take it out of a sexual/furry/transgendered context...

When I was 11 and 12 years old, I played viola in the junior high orchestra. I was first chair. I practiced a lot, and worked hard. Periodically, we gave concerts that parents and the community were invited to.

All of the other parents would show up on time, showered, dressed, sit in the seats, applaud....all the "normal" concert behavior.

My mother would arrive late...generally in the middle of the performance...not because she couldn't help it/had to work, but because (as she would loudly announce to everyone within hearing range) she had been so caught up "at the barn." That probably didn't need to be explained....because she also smelled like the barn, and was still dressed in riding clothes....and would stomp loudly up the aisle, "pardon me, pardon me, pardon me" into the middle of a row, and then laugh and talk loudly (about herself) through the rest of the performance.

I was embarrassed on a regular basis...and used to wish that she either wouldn't come at all, or would simply be "like other people's parents." I got used to hearing the other parents talk about "that woman", but it never became something that I was okay with.

About midway through junior high, I told my orchestra teacher that I was quitting. He cared enough to ask why....and I explained to him my regular humiliation. Perhaps I should have been more self-confident...or not cared what other people thought...but I was already the child dressed out of the Salvation Army bin, the one using a school instrument, the one whose family got the charity basket from the PTA on the holidays, the one being teased and bullied.

My teacher cared enough to listen...and told me not to quit.

He also spoke privately to my mother.

I don't know what he said exactly. But I do know that for the rest of the years there, she either showed up on time and behaved herself....or she didn't come to the concert at all. Both things were an improvement for me.

I appreciate that he was the adult he was; that he recognized a child's discomfort and had the character to address it, because as a child I could not.

Exactly Jo, someone needs to speak to all parents especially the unknowing parent. My ex husband is aware of my choices I don't let him hear it via others or the internets. I hope the child is heard by allll adults involved, I hope the child is taught to be open minded and I hope Mom is made aware ASAP that her man cub is distraught.

Until and if Okie comes back to give more details all any of us are doing is speculating..reading the OP as "WE" see it. As so many others said...it comes down to communicating with your child. If that is happening with the father and child and the child is still having issues then i would suggest the father make time for just him and the child.

Kids are very resilient AND vey smart at a very young age. Hell the Prince knew something was different with me before we ever discussed it. I remember once going in a store(he was 5 i think),and he was talking to the cashier about something and she asked him why he said something and he pops off with "well thats what my moms girlfriend said. We talked after that. He never had a problem with it--except for a brief 2 minutes in 5th grade bc his friends mom found out i was gay,and suddenly wouldnt let her kid come around..within a week or so he came to me and said "Mom if they dont like u how u r then i dont need them"



so as its been said COMMUNICATION with children is key to everything!

Total speculation and opinion on my part
 

Kinda wish I hadn't read this thread....


Okay, I have an opinion. I think it will be unpopular. Nonetheless, I can tell you right now that there's nothing that could sway me.


There is something wrong with this father that he thinks it is okay to include his child publicly in something overtly sexual to those in the know about such things, and something overtly whacked to those others.

I'm a closet nudist. But do I walk around in front of Asa and his little friends with next to nothing on. No.

Here's why: I respect my child. That guy doesn't respect his child, or he has something else wrong with him along the lines of not knowing what is and isn't respecting a child.


p.s. When someone says "at least it's not drunk driving," or whatever, is that an argument that anything short of drunk driving is fine? Because it's like arguing, well, maybe one partner beat the other up but they didn't kill 'em. I don't think we have to be satisfied with stemming only the worst.

Because I have limited knowledge regarding furries, I have been doing some reading and found that it is not always about sex. If what the child is experiencing is not sexual in nature, what would your objection be?

Well said!

Some refs for folks- take your pick- concerning if this has a kink/fetish sexual theme in terms of exposure to a minor and appropriate boundaries with kids and adults.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=furry+t...ox&FORM=IE8SRC

That the level at which the kid would be embarrassed--really, even mortified doesn't capture it--trumps all.

When my son is embarrassed to have me come walk home with him instead of picking him up in the car after school, I say, Okay.

What the fuck does it hurt me?

Who gets to decide what is normal?? Are you saying no one does? We are lucky that there are some wide parameters that as a culture we basically agree on.

Regardless of whether you think the cultural poll for this one would put it squarely in the acceptable rating, they are imposing on this kid something they know is painful for him and something that as adults, they can probably survive putting aside, for the child whose nurturing they are responsible for.

When I first opened this thread and started to read... I got the chills, got sick to my stomach and had a rush of very bad memories and feelings.
I speak of one large, particular group of Furries and their "ring leader" when I state the following:
I personally have FAR TOO MUCH experience with a particular group of Furries that used their Furry Porn -written erotica and Furry cartoon characters or Anime characters - to target children and teens. This particular group of Furries would use their porn to entice these young kids and "bring them into their circle"...
This is so painful for me to write about, that I can hardly compose my words.
I believe *anyone's* kink should NEVER include children and children should NEVER be exposed to the kinds of things my son was exposed to at age 15 by this particular group of Furries that consider their behavior acceptable...NO CHILD should ever be forced or told they must accept kink behavior that makes them clearly uncomfortable... I was told MANY times by the "Head Furry" (after my son turned 18) that I was to accept their behavior/their kink/their ways or he would make sure I would never see my son again. I can't express how awful as AN ADULT this made me feel!! After being exposed to the "inner workings" of this particular Furry group... I believe with my heart and soul that their porn is specifically designed to target children.

My son was targeted by this "Head Furry" and their group when he was 15. I was NOT aware of it until he turned 18 and moved in with the "Head Furry" as his slave. After he was 18, there was not much I could do to stop things.... so I made a visit several times to their home.... where I would see the Furry porn posted all over the house where the "Head Furry's" grandchildren were playing! It shocked me, it upset me... it pissed me off that I felt so helpless to do anything to protect any child from that influence.... And it pissed me off that this Furry group would promote their unprotected group sex activities and general unprotected sex as acceptable behavior to children and teens....including non-consensual teens that they were hoping to "wrap into" their group and eventually get them to consent.

I AM NOT passing judgment on any other Furry or any other group or kink... My experience is with one group of Furries, especially their Head Furry, that destroyed my son's life, preyed on him, used him as a target, passed him around as a "toy" at their Furry Conventions, tossed him away as soon as he turned "too old", and ruined my relationship with my son and made my life a living hell for many years. They preyed on him by initially using the Tail (at first telling him it was connected to a tradition of The Renaissance Fair) and their written erotica depicting Anime animal characters as the lead voices. It is VERY disturbing to me that ANY group or ANY individual would use these tactics to initiate children and entice them into accepting certain behaviors or lifestyles.

I can't write the full story here... as this is not about me or my family's trauma at the hands of a Furry Group or pedophile predator.... But I can say: When I see someone wearing "The Tail"... I know there is more going on behind the scenes that can be very harmful to our younger generations... and I can CERTAINLY ATTEST to the damaging affects of such targeting, negative, forced-to-accept behavior.

I will never, ever dismiss ANYONE for reaching out for support when it comes to their fears of possible harm coming to children.

Snow, you once supported me when I announced how my son was a victim of a predator. I see the OP as asking this Community for advice and support.

OK, I can see this- and I do know about social services and how these systems are as you state at times. No, it isn't imminent danger- but it crosses boundaries and I would be very concerned with this kid's discomfort.- especially if this is the transgender furry phenomenon that includes butt plugs. Given the possible kinds of exposure he could be subjected to (not saying he is right now), it could turn into legally defined child abuse.

This just isn't a matter of how kids can get all goofy about their parents being sexual beings. And the kid will have plenty of time to discover and explore all dimensions (including various sex toys) of sexuality as he grows up.

To be honest, I would want to know about this as a parent and talk with my ex about it. Even when we are separated or divorced and share custody, it is really important to share child rearing practices in a consistant manner- for the kid. I honestly don't give a hooray for his father's desires here. Adults have the space to do what we want and not involve our kids. Especially at ages that are just difficult with development in ordinary circumstances.

Blog that
 

How about you not single me out or refer to me as Snowy, as I STATED nothing sexual about a fucking collar or a tail and FFS the mom should of been told first PERIOD.

I respectfully disagree that a child's embarrassment should be the defining factor in a parent's decision making. I agree that a child's embarrassment should be considered and discussed but not be the defining factor.

Furry = fetish

Think of some fetishes you know about. Can you think of many--any--that you find appropriate to exhibit to and discuss with a 12 year old? Do you think it would be appropriate to share it with his peers, maybe do it up special for the school play so teachers and everybody know where his/her parents are coming from in that area?

Just because we so diligently accept people because we know what it's like not to be accepted for normal, appropriate behavior in public, we don't have to act like we accept everything. It's disingenuous anyway. If you must have a line drawn before you can be comfortable, then let's draw it at fetishes. fetishes are inherently and exclusively sexual. Homosexuality is not. It's a complex part of human behavior that goes beyond the sexual.

Am I getting anywhere??

What I am saying is more nuanced than that, but I'm afraid that I haven't the slightest idea how to better impart it.

there is way too much assuming going on in this thread. children aren't allowed at furry conventions. kink is not always sexual. it sounds like somebody is trying to equate pedophilia with furry and that is just not right. holy mother of the cow people can we at least try and not allow our personal hardships interfere with the topic itself.

When you supported me, I appreciated it. That's why I mentioned it.
I believe the OP maybe didn't know how to approach the mother ... or maybe there's a barrier to the mother that we don't know about and this is why the OP was asking *us* for support, advice and acceptance of their concern.

I, speaking from explicit, direct experience, can say that the Tail and the Collar is used by the Furries in the group I spoke of as a direct link and direct public display of their kink and their sexual preferences. The Tail and the Porn has been used as a direct link to enticing children. I know this because my son fell prey to it.

Believe me, I'm the last person to condemn a fetish. Ha, I laugh at other people's fetishes. I couldn't even tell you mine!

Safe fetishes are fine besides, even if they weren't, what could the fetishist do about it? (Don't go there.)

Furries are fine by me. They can eat at my table, sleep in the extra room, hell, they could probably get sick in the back of my car, I wouldn't even be mad.

But if they want to go to my son's dance performance with us, they're going to have to chill. Just like I wouldn't go there doing.... er, never mind.

I agree with part of this.... another part I do not.
I have first hand experience, that led me to reporting the event to the appropriate authorities, that teens between the ages of 16-18 were allowed at an East Coast Furry Convention. I have first hand knowledge of one 17 year old that was passed around as a toy within said convention and with this particular Furry group. I am not equating pedophilia with Furry when I made the statements about the Furry Porn targeting children. It's a fact... not an equation.

I completely support the OP and the OP's plea for support and advice.

BBC News Article
 

Who are the furries?

Lenya looks adorable, with lots of glossy white fur, black paws, a shiny pink nose and cute little pointed ears.

But Lenya is also a 48-year-old computer network administrator called Marshall Woods, who likes motor racing, visiting museums and reading crime novels in his spare time.

Mr Woods is what is known as a furry and Lenya is a "fursona" he has created, which he described as a "sort of space weasel". As part of getting into character he wears a handmade, full-size fursuit.

Furry Fandom, furrydom, furdom - it's called many things - has momentarily found itself in the spotlight in the UK, due to a court case where the two defendants met on a furry website.

It is a largely unknown scene and participants have been happy to keep it that way, feeling they are often misunderstood. So what is a furry?

No standard definition exists but generally furries are people who have a fascination with anthropomorphic animals. These are animals that are given human traits, like walking and talking. They can be anything from cartoons characters like Bugs Bunny to computer game personalities like Pokemon.

The scene has its own art, animation, comic books and literature, but activities are largely conducted online - where furries adopt "fursonas" for role playing.

But for some it is about meeting other furries in person. Groups around the world meet regularly and there are conventions in the US, UK, Germany, Mexico, France, Russia and Brazil.

Petting and scratching
Furries say the scene is about creativity, freedom and community; being who you want to be among like-minded people.

"You get to choose what and who you are. Imagination is OK, no matter what your age," says Mark Merlino, a founding member of the furry culture in the US and known as Sylys Sable on the scene.

But, inevitably perhaps, there's a sexual element too. In a recent court case in the UK, two men who met on a furry website, and shared sexual role-playing fantasies, were convicted of plotting to kill one of the pair's adoptive parents. Christopher Monks, from Lancashire, and Shaun Skarnes, from Cheshire, were found guilty of meticulously preparing the killings via the internet. They are currently awaiting sentence.

Furries will not thank the pair for casting their hobby in a negative light, and tend to argue the sexual side is hugely overplayed.

"I think the problem is that sex sells," says Ian Wolf (his furry pseudonym), who is editor of the British furry news website, FurteanTimes.com. "It is not surprising that less scrupulous journalists like to print stories about people having sex dressed as foxes."

Some furries assume animal traits - known as zoomorphism - and indentify strongly with certain species. This can range from adopting an online persona to wearing a tail or full-sized fur suits like Mr Woods.

Exhilarating

"Fursuiters", as they are called, bemoan society's inhibitions and look admiring at the animal kingdom where creatures have more freedom to be expressive. Touching, petting, hugging and "skritching" (lightly scratching and grooming) is common at social gatherings. And most do not remove their costumes in public areas, to prevent breaking the illusion.

"There's a magic moment when you put a costume on and see yourself in the mirror," says Mr Woods. "It's simultaneously disorienting and exhilarating. You actually do feel that you've changed for just a moment."

Anthrozoologist, Kathy Gerbasi, who studies human-animal interactions and furries, has witnessed furry interaction first-hand.

"People say that being in a fur suit allows you to do things you might not otherwise do, like dance in public, clown around, give people a hug," she says.

She argues furries are just taking something that most of us do a few steps further.

"I think most humans grow up interested in animals. We grow up with teddy bears, pets, Mickey Mouse, etc. Animals surround us in advertisements, nature, stories and fables.

"Humans tend to anthropomorphise as a way of understanding and interpreting the world around us. Furries just take this interest a bit further than most people."

ut a small minority take it further still - believing they are animals trapped in human bodies, or consider themselves to be part animal. A study by Ms Gerbasi at one furry convention found about a quarter of the participants did not consider themselves 100% human.

She is currently researching this in relation to gender identity disorder, when people feel they are the wrong sex and trapped in the wrong body. She says currently unpublished data supports the hypothesis that there are similarities. She is calling it species identity disorder.

'Mystified'

Feeling you are part-animal is unusual, she admits, although "for most, the furry fandom is a hobby and like Star Trek fans or such".

Of course, there's nothing new about people donning animal costumes for a spot of fun. But Furryism, as a pursuit in its own right, grew out of science fiction and comic book conventions in the 1980s, says furry historian Fred Patten.

Small room parties were held at such events in the UK and US for fans of animated cartoons with animal characters.

But it really came of age with the internet in the 1990s and today is an internet community first and foremost, says Mr Merlino.

Conventions are held around the world and some have attracted have up to 3,000 furries. In the UK the scene is very active, says Mr Wolf. There are locals groups and two annual conventions, in London and Manchester, with another planned for Inverness.

For a long time it was a male-dominated scene, but many more women are now involved.

"There are still way more male furries than female ones, but the number of girls is growing slowly," says furry artist TaniDaReal (her furry pseudonym), a 29-year-old media designer from Germany.

Mystified'

"On art galleries, I'd say the gender ratio is pretty balanced. A lot of the furry artists are female."

Very little research has been done on the furry world. This is probably because many behavioural scientists are not really aware of their existence, says Ms Gerbasi.

When I presented an interactive session at an identity conference in 2007 people were mystified," she says. "If you tell people about furries they often think you are kidding or making it up. Also, due to bad publicity, furries have not been cooperative about being studied."

Furries argue it is the persistent misconceptions about them that keeps the scene private.

"The big misconception is that most furries are mainly obsessed with sex," says Mr Wolf. "While there is pornography in the fandom - 'yiff' as it is known - it is only a small part."

So what do they say when someone thinks being a furry is weird?

"I would say that we are just free thinkers who let our minds expand to create these weird and wonderful characters," says Mr Wolf.



(note his tail is NOT a butt plug)

>link<

Lovely cut and paste. :hangloose: and a neat, very descriptive article.

But it does not dismiss my experience or my son's experience with The Furries.

I made a difference to at least two individuals here.... that's all that matters to me.
Life is a beautiful thing... we learn, we heal (sometimes) and we move on. We find those that support us and those that don't. That's acceptable to me. One can't always have 100% go their way all the time. To me, it's a beautiful thing when one of Our Members comes forward asking for support and advice on something that obviously upsets them.

Sweet, I'm taking this in, but I think there is a point to be made that someone who has had experiences with homosexual pedophilia could come into a gay male thread about raising children and go on about how their own negative experience could not be denied to the degree that you are.

I support your efforts to warn the OP about relevant details you have knowledge of. I think you've established that there are sinister elements in the Furry culture, as there are in any segment of society deemed "alternative" or not.