As I posted in another thread, I have appreciated the freedom that an identity serves. When I came to the insight that I was a stone femme, it explained a lot and allowed me to accept all that I was and what I could give---without guilt. That's the big thing here.

Being stone sets boundaries. But in some circles where there is little understanding, it makes us selfish or cold in some way.

There is another connection in stone intimacy that we don't talk about. That "energy" that emerges between two stones is more than just lust. Sometimes it takes on a spiritual note because of the level of trust that is being offered. And if that couple explores areas that slip beyond vanilla, the trust and caring is magnified.

But finding that counterpart is a challenge. I am reluctant to mingle in the wider lesbian community in real time and lead with my heart because I do not want to become fond of someone, knowing I can't deliver what they want and need.

It is often a lonely road we stones walk, ever alert for that person who is our complement. But that is also what makes us who we are.

i relate to the term stone more emotionally rather than sexually. i have plenty of friends who are stone femmes (who have clear boundaries around touch during sex and but some also id as stone because of their emotional boundaries rather than their physical ones). my partner is a stone butch and again, although there is a big physical element for him, being stone is a big part of who he is emotionally.

i've always been very emotionally demonstrative and outgoing, as well as pretty comfortable with lots of different stuff sexually. i never thought that i would id as stone until i became a sex worker. but now i can definitely feel emotional walls as well as sometimes physical ones going up for me. this thread has been really helpful to read as this is something i'm struggling with right now (literally a lot in the last 24 hours, but also over the last year or so i think).

I was a little suprised to not see the terms, ice princess or ice queen. (I might have missed it) I have known a very feminine woman who could not tolerate being touched, but she was still very passionate. and very lovely and beautiful. She called herself an Ice Queen. Because men called her fridged. So, it was a way of reclaiming the intended insult as a compliment. She did not want to be touched, but she loved being watched.
(glassy eyed-stupid grin-good memory)

I think there are two kinds of stone femme in discussion here.

One is the stone femme who seeks out a stone butch and who respects hys desire not to be touched in intimate places not just because it is hys wish but it is because she has no desire to touch hym there. That is the kind of stone femme I am and most stone femmes are.

However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

Yes, this is the type of woman I learned to address as Ice Queen or Ice Princess, (different than a pillow queen/ pillow princess)


:bunchflowers:

Stone v. Queer Femme
 

This is exactly why I don't ID as Stone Femme, though I only date Stone Butches/TG's. I call myself a Queer Femme because I only date those outside the gender binary.

I am with you, Jane, in the first variety of Stone Femme.

I'm a stonefemme in the first variety, too. Meaning, I have a strong boundary around touching or penetrating a partner's genitalia. BUT, I don't really ID as queer. I sometimes use that word to be inclusive and because it's easy, but it implies an opennes to other genders which I don't really have.

I'm a woman who partners with women, (very, very butch women, but women none the less), which makes me a lesbian. Now that 'lesbian' seems to be an embattled ID within b/f circles, I've become far more cranky about insisting upon using it.

boobookitty, is this what the women call themselves? It sounds like a derogatory word; I have never heard it before.

For what it is worth, Cheryl, I have never regarded this being an automatic thing and had no idea that others thought this.

I think 'queer' has been embraced by many young people because it's non gender specific, and in some circles claiming a gender has become, well, uncool. (I also think it's attractive partly because it presents an easy solution to the awkward linguistics of LGBTI alphabet soup, but that's not really relevant to this post.) In my experience, the non-gendered word, 'queer', does invite the assumption that the femme who IDs as such would be open to a relationship with males, (trans men or male IDed people). I am not interested in any kind of male. I'm strictly interested in butch women, so I think using queer would be disingenuous for me.

It's been my experience lately that many of the people who ID as queer, do so as a f**k u and your gender, in-yer-face, kind of political statement. Believe it or not, some straight people have even started to call themselves queer. I think, though I can't speak for all of them, that some may do so because they think they're being supportive. Kind of like, "I'm Spartacus". Of course, I find it as offensive as white people calling themselves POCs in a misguided attempt to create solidarity. There are also straight people within the BDSM community who call themselves queer because they think 'queer' should encompass all sexual minorities. Don't get me wrong- I don't think either practice is AT ALL widespread! I sometimes travel in circles that encompass extreme ends of the sexual minority spectrum. Those are the circles within which I've had a few very surprising conversations with people who don't use 'queer' in ways I can relate to.

Regardless of how other people use 'queer', it's not an accurate descriptor for me.

Cheryl, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that you thought most viewed stone femmes as being open to dating people other than women identified females. I now understand you were speaking of the descriptor queer.

YES! that was how she disscribed herself, with great pride and self confidence.
It was at first an insult from a man, whom she had told she was not interested.
Her manner of dress and expression is very feminie and sexually confident. Frankly she liked the effect she had on men (and women) ... Yet, there was to be no touching her... just watching.

I know that using the word, "queen" can be used/taken as an insult, in gay culture has a suggestion of maleness, (because dragqueen is so well known) ... and I will be honest, I adored my 'pillow princess' until she asked to let her husband join us, ...ah, NO.

Since than I have at times refered to her as a 'pillow queen' ... when I was miffed at her.

When I think Ice Princess, I think of all the most beautiful art, lovely to see and impossible to touch or possess. VERY much a compliment!

came back to add: think of the most beautiul female form you can imagine, sculpted in ice (or glass) ... but 'ice' suggest to me you can't keep her... to touch her is to loose her... I don't know but I suspect most pass as straight ...(romanic sigh)

Thanks so much for laying it out like you did. This makes it clear that I'm not a stone femme, but could be from time to time.

Thanks for sharing
 

Love to all the Stone Femmes out there

I borrowed this quote from the house of stone thread. I brought it here because this thread has a ? mark and I am thinking that is where this wondering goes.

So life, a might wind, joyous tripping has carried me far and these days I find myself looking at the definition above for stone femme or ones nearly worded as that and wonder. And I wonder more than I have since I first came out. This is good.

So I get the a person who is "feminine in thoughts and actions" part. That fits. I am more casual in my girly ways. Developing my particularities ;)

And the part that says:"whose only partner is a stone butch" is certainly true. Just one and hy is it for me. But does this definition mean always? That is all I want. Because all I want is hym and so then that part is true. Will it always be true? That I want hym yes, that I want only others like hym? how about we not go there because that would be sad to consider.

Then of course the part of "whose sexual style accepts the sexual boundaries and limitations of any stonebutch with grace and understanding, who never pushes the limits and boundaries of any stone butch" which is a resounding yes of course.

Next up is the part of "who loves butchcock and the masculinity of stone butches it represents." Yep again, swoon for sure. Now is that the only form of masculinity I would desire? Possibly.

The sticking point for me in looking at defintions like this is that it is about the other person. Only the first part is about me. If I was going to take on an additional sexual definition that I choose to explain me and my sexual expression wouldn't I state it in terms of my expression?

Still working on this obviously.

I just started reading this part of the board and I'm so glad I took the time. I've struggled with this for a long time. When I first started dating a woman she was a stone butch. I didn't really know anything about anything at that time, but I did know that having sex with her was amazing. At the same time, I felt like I was being selfish and that I wasn't doing what I needed to do to please her. It took quite a bit of convincing, but I got it. After that, the sex was so amazing. And as you said Jane, the energy was like nothing I've ever felt before. I felt like I could fly, it was so intense.

When we parted, I started dating a butch, but she wasn't stone. I tried to please her, but it was more of a struggle for me and I just couldn't do it. Eventually that partnership ended. I knew that I couldn't give her what she need or wanted and the guilt made it too hard to live with.

So now I know that I'm not defining myself by what someone else wants, it's what I want. And the best thing about it, is that I don't have to feel guilty about it.

Love the sense of empowerment in this statement! :thumbsup:

Wow... this has been really amazing for me to read. Up until a little more then a year ago, I had never heard the word stone in relation to butch and femme. I was pretty sheltered, though. Even though I have known that I preferred women (the butch kind) since I was a teenager, I only just came out last August. I've been married twice to bio men, and have had sex with a lot of bio men, trying to convince myself that I really was hetero. I have had a lot of secret trysts with butches over the years before I came out, but I still never heard the term stone.

As I am reading these threads about stonefemme and stone butch, I am realizing that I really fit here. I was drawn to these threads because I am currently in a committed relationship with a stone butch, and it has been hard to find others who understand what that is. And after reading I'm starting to wonder if I am stonefemme. I LOVE being with my guy! She rocks my world in ways I didn't know were possible. At first it was difficult for me to understand that she didn't want me to touch her certain ways, or only wanted me to touch her in certain places if she actually put my hand there, and she told me before we ever had sex that she never wanted to recieve oral or be penetrated in any way. I had the kind of mindset that I needed to please my sexual partners, and if I didn't instigate touching her that I wasn't really pleasing her. She was really patient and gentle with me and I came to an understanding about what pleases her.

So on to me and my possible stoness (is that a word? ha!)... Being with my stone, I have discovered what it is to feel true pleasure. I have struggled with past sexual encounters, to reach an orgasm. In my current relationship I am multiple orgasmic. I have reached an orgasm just from her whispering in my ear and telling me to cum. Thinking about it, I really think it has to do with being able to let go and just be in the moment with my partner. I don't spend the whole time thinking about whether I'm touching them right, or if they like what I am doing. I don't have to guess. I am realizing that in the past, I did so many things with partners, that I really didn't like, didn't feel comfortable with, or just plain disgusted me. But I did it, because I felt like I had to please my partner. With my current partner, it really gets me off to know that she gets so caught up in my pleasure that she is pleased. I don't have to think about every little touch, or sound I make. I can let go and just feel and react to her, and if she wants more or different she shows me what it is. I can't imagine going back to being with someone who was not stone. I don't want to wear a strap on... not ever! And I have found that I like touching her in some areas but only when she is guiding me and showing me and telling me. Maybe it has more to do with a dominance thing? I am really fierce and more dominant outside of the bedroom, but I am really submissive when it comes to sex.

So I still don't know for sure... I don't really like labels, but it is relieving to find others who feel similar to me. Thank you... I will continue to read and absorb from this weatlh of information and experience.

Stone Femme
 

Hi there,
I just started making postings tonight. ValKyrie, your post could have almost been my own. I fell for a Stone Butch top a couple years ago, and I was hooked. Until then I had only been involved with men, and unhappily so. Unfortunately the distance was a deal breaker, though we have remained best friends.

When I started dating again at 50, I knew I would probably never again be attracted to a man...beyond a certain point. But trying to find a stone butch on a dating site....is the proverbial needle in a haystack!

I absolutely LOVE stone butch, especially dominant ones with a little "edge". And I really HATE the term "pillow princess". As if the Stone Femme is always selfish and has nothing to give back. Sure there are women like that, lesbian or straight... but I love to make my stone butch partner happy....in whatever ways hys heart desires.

I think that butch-femme dynamics are fascinating. However, I feel that the term "stone" femme is far too confusing because it can relate to
1) being "stone" or being a Top and Dominant
or, 2) being reciprocal to a "stone" partner.
Can i humbly propose "feather" as a term for the reciprocal partner? I think it's a funny nod to the idea of being a "pillow queen" as well as being reciprocally "soft" for a "hard" partner.
(I don't mean any disrespect, I just have the hardest time following this thread!)

I love this site and have particularly loved this thread. The reason is that without this safe place, I would have never have learned about my own sexuality or succeeded in correctly identifying, without shame, my own needs and desires, and the potential partners with whom I may fit.

I am a stone femme and proud.

Love to you all.

(f)

yep, I'm a catcher not a pitcher ;) - ever! It couldn't do less for me to be the pitcher. There is just such a deeply intrinsic natural feeling for me to be stone femme bottom.

in my experience there are two types of stone femme - bottoms and tops and tops conduct themselves in bed much as stone butches do. my former bff is a stone femme top. I am strictly bottom.

of course in my youth I did a lot of different types of things in bed, all in the name of experimentation and finding out what I and my partner enjoyed etc. over time this has felt the most natural and satisfying to me.

I am happy to be flexible to my partner's needs... during sex I like to be able to squeeze the butt, but I can not do that if required. I can 'worship the mini cock' as lilith put it... I think the only thing that would pose a challenge to me is doing anything to the chest area but I personally haven't had a stone butch want me to! The most important thing to me really is that I am the bottom, the submissive and the catcher and not expected to do any penetration... it is such a turn off for me, I feel really unnatural doing it!

I am really sick of the attitude that stone femmes are lazy or selfish in bed too... I playfully call myself a pillow princess but the truth is I do plenty in bed... kissing, embracing, sucking off where desired and the most important and significant thing, providing my body for my partner's pleasure... and all the responsiveness I show. That is absolute participation.

And yes stone sex is definitely lesbian sex... two women having sex is lesbian sex, whatever kind of activities they are doing!

Hi Gemme... yes I am aware of that! I guess I phrased badly... I didn't mean that all stones are women... or that all stone sex is lesbian sex... but if sex is happening between two people who identify as women it is lesbian sex... which would make stone sex in that situation lesbian sex. is that more clear? sorry guys, didn't mean to erase any identities, I was just focusing on women partners involved in response to the idea expressed that stone sex couldn't be lesbian.

Its taking me some time to read this thread, so many points to take in, fascinating and thought provoking....

I've been confused about this too. Much as I am not the biggest fan of labels in a lot of capacities, I am intrigued by what one would be applicable to me.

I'm femme in appearance. I wear make up and dresses (occasionally but I like to sometimes) and usually stereotypical feminine clothing.
However I'm a top in bed mostly. I don't like receiving oral and don't like being penetrated. Certain types of touch CAN excite me but at the same time they're so few and far between that I can quite easily do without being touched at all and would rather it that way. I'm good with getting my partner off and I am only attracted to butch. I'm the one who always drives, the one who arranges dates etc. I am often intrigued as to what it would be like to be taken out by a butch who is more into doing the traditional butch role... A small part of me thinks I'd like it but It's a very small part and it feels quite alien mostly. I've always done the 'date' thing by arranging, paying and being the one 'in charge of it' if you will. So I'm not a stonefemme by the above definition. I am not sure what I am. A butch in disguise? (I am being lighthearted really but at the same time I would like some input). :)

Yeah, no. Being in charge doesn't equal butch. I understand that you're kind of joking, and I'm trying not to tear my hair out because it upsets me that so many people really do buy into this cultural stereotype.

You describe yourself as femme, and as a top. That means you're a femme top. You aren't interested in being penetrated, and you're reluctant to receive touch. Yes, many people would call you stone. Femme Stone Top. Or a Stone Femme. Yes, it's confusing. I continue to advocate for a change in nomenclature.

I know other women like you. I believe there are some who have or do frequent this site.

I could have written most of this but the "traditional butch role" is by your defenition only. I have been "in charge" in relationships, in bed and otherwise, i don't like receiving oral sex, but not once, even for a second, have i felt butch or stone.

My issue is i am.stubborn and don't like being vulnerable so i "take charge". However when it is safe i totally enjoy being spoiled and being swept off my feet, by a butch.

Maybe you could find one to let you enjoy it too.

Thank you for the reply Cheryl, let me apologise for being 'one of those' it wasn't intentional. It isn't so much that I buy into stereotypes, in fact I too have been annoyed by them when people make assumptions about me. (Admittedly usually cis males but not always), more that I have been influenced by them and been questioning which one I would or would not be and I felt like I was an outsider ( I must clarify it wasn't somethng that kept me awake at night so to speak).

I am happy to adopt the stone femme label, I know labels can be very damaging but they can be useful when used correctly and I was feeling a bit bewildered. I think with me personally too, I have only just began to question things and only just become au fait with the internet. So it's a bit of a new world even though in 'real life' I've never had an issue with things. It's natural curiosity I gues.


Yes, I have had that definition as an amalgamation as what I've read (not on here I must add)!

We do sound similar although I do feel 'butch' in some ways, and although in (very) small situations I've melted a little when a butch has done something for me or to me, I generally do not like it. I'm in a long term relationship with a butch, but we fell into our way of working very quickly although she does struggle a little with some things I do or don't do.

I'm so glad you've found someone who respects your boundaries. Just be aware that even though your language makes perfect sense you'll have to explain what you mean when you use that label to describe yourself. It often means exactly the opposite of the way you mean it. I'm also a stonefemme. I'm always a catcher and never a pitcher. I will not and cannot be a sexual top. I will not and cannot penetrate my partner.

Yup. Stonefemme. Nope, the language we've adopted makes no sense at all, but it's what we have now.

Me, to an extent (see what's written under my custom user title)! I am still trying to understand myself after decades of hiding from who I am (to most).
Maybe we don't, however the name of the forum suggests labels of some sort are part of this community, as do a large percentage of the threads, and the 'how do you identify' public question and answer.

I am, which is one reason I don't want to use it. It has taken me a long time to get to this stage, from a family of homophobes and I know I can never go totally public. I guess this makes it a little more important to me? Maybe. Maybe also the fact I'm a sociologist by nature and trade. But, more important things in life too.

We are all evolving.

i feel how stone or not stone we may also depend on our sexual counterpart. It can be very difficult as a femme to know what is allowed and what is not allowed when with a butch. It’s a learning process. Just because they allow something doesn’t mean i am into it, but i could be. i am not good at figuring it out so it’s easier to just ask questions. I think there is a stigma among the butch community that if they are not stone, they are somehow less butch. Nothing could be further than the truth in my eyes.

If my butch is stone, would that not make me stone too? That feels so very limiting to me, but that is probably because i am not a stone femme.

There are people who identify as Stone and this dictates their behavior (what they do or do not do, what they allow or do not allow). And then there are people who respect their Stone partners boundaries, and are not Stone, themselves. It sounds like you respect your partner's boundaries and are not Stone. You are adjusting according to your partners boundaries, you are not being more of less stone based on their boundaries. Who we partner with does not determine our identity.

I have always preferred to date queer femmes who identify as Stone. I don't want a woman who is limiting her desires in order to be with me. I want her desires to match my desires.

Dapper, I hear what you are saying about wanting a femme to id as stone, but in my experience I have known quite a few femmes (both friends and potential romantic interest) who are happy to partner with a stone butch or a butch who is not and when they are with a stone butch they don't feel they are missing anything. Of course that would not be true for all femmes. It all depends on range of preferences.

Bull Dog, girl dee, just giving my opinion, based on my experiences and preferences.