DaddysKitten, I said I would take just as much interest as hers. Stop twisting my words. I had already clarified that, even though it was quite clear in the original post.

Agreed. One of the very things that attracted me to kitten when we first met was how incredibly, eager, she was to get to know me. My past, my present and all that I wanted for my future. Then when I got ill, she took it upon herself to research it and understand it.

I did ask for clarification in the title of my original post. Harsh as it may have been asked, it does not lessen the experience of two members trying to apply a theory that makes transguys look like i/we/they don't do their homework here on these forums or for the past ten years. It was/is harsh in itself however true it may be or not. As hard as it may be for some members to hear and i am sorry that it is "butch vs. transguy" or visa versa, it can be and has been a direct result of blanket statements like that and i was merely pointing out the thin ice people were beginning to tread on. It is hard for me to watch regressive thoughts put into place about transfolk in our community for all to keep reading from here to eternity and not say anything. I just can't do it. Thanks for listening.

Bull,

1. She wasn't twisting your words.
2. Your post was not clear, ergo questions.
3. Refer to the very start of her post to yours.

I think it's different when someone you already love begins to transition. It's like they're taking the person you know and love away and replacing them with someone else.

As for my ID I went through a lot of soul searching, but in the end realised I'd fallen for a person, not a gender. Had anyone told me that by 2012 I would have married a man, I would have rolled my eyes and assumed they were being homophobic. As it was, I may have married a man, but that didn't change my sexual identity at all.

I haven't made any blanket statements. What has been discussed and not discussed on forums such as this is a matter of public record. Interpret it as you wish.

I have myself perfectly clear and I have also clarified time and time again.

You seem to be quite volatile, when addressing others. I was not twisting anything, I was asking for clarification on your statement. And had you dropped out of defensive mode for a moment, you would have seen me very politely mentioning that perhaps you should rethink your wording a little so people are not twisting your words, or reading a different understanding of them.

It seems to be happening with many people on this forum. I am not attacking you. Please, do not read it as such. You have enough vehemence coming from others, do not add me to that list, I was anything but.

Great point Quintease. The same happened to me. I Have identified as a lesbian for over 20 years but am now married to Rufusboi who transitioned nearly two years ago. I realized quickly though that he wasn't having a personality transition and that gender and pronouns doesn't change how I feel either about him or myself or how I identify. Julie mentioned in an earlier post that it is all about communication. It doesn't matter if you have been with someone for 2 weeks or 10 years you have to talk, share fears, ask questions and figure it out together.

Melissa

WOW Parker. I don't know you. But, this is just ugly. Why is someone a shit stirrer if they are expressing their feelings? Is it simply you do not agree with him? And if so, can't you just say that, without being ugly?

And why use the term "Good Girl?" Sounds a bit misogynistic to me? Why not just say - I am not going to sit down and be silent? Do only Good Girls keep their mouths shut - cause this Good Girl doesn't.

Julie

Wow you get all this from me asking about blanket statements that butches were making about transguys in this thread?? What does the duplicity thread have anything to do with this?? I had an opinion over there and it makes me a shit stirrer and i have an opinion over here and it makes me a shit stirrer??? How so??? I never told anybody to sit down and be quiet or not have an opinion. Just because i voice a counter opinion to a member doesnt make me a shit stirrer. What bait are you talking about? i get you feel this is a correct assumption of your community. I get that you think transguys do less work here. I just don't agree with it. I voiced that. Period

i have no idea what happened to this thread.

bulldog shared her perspective from her experience in butch/femme community that femmes often are the ones doing the research about partners in order to be more understanding, rather than ftms or butches. personally i found this insight extremely helpful because i recognize this pattern and i recognize myself in this pattern, but it's something i never stopped and thought about before. it also doesn't shock me, given how masculinity is centered in wider society. i don't see anything in bulldog's statement that tries to pit butches against transmen, or butches and transmen against femmes.

other folks have observed different things and maybe don't agree. not everyone has to agree.

i'm not sure what the hell happened. i don't by any means think that bulldog needs defending, but i did want to post publicly to say that i, for one, am grateful to both her and parker for speaking up on this thread. i have learned something valuable from it.

Oh threads like this always get caught up like this. The point usually gets lost about 4 pages in.

Agreed. In another forum I'm a member of they're currently having a discussion on how sexism works in the lesbian culture and the fact is, it does. Denying it is pointless. Masculine and feminine are treated very differently in this world.

This is what happens in nearly all threads that discuss our community. Things go off track or get heated. It is often how we learn from one another and understand different perspectives.

It's what people do. They discuss and discuss and discuss.

What is not okay, is getting ugly and calling people names. Not okay and that needs to be called out. We all have various opinions on every subject. And personally, I think this is a beautiful thing.

I know Bully real time, as I know Weatherboi and a bunch of the other posters here. Just because we disagree with one another, does not mean we are attacking and does not mean we cannot all come together after our disagreements and share a meal.

Julie

i understand that threads get heated and off-topic, which is generally the point at which i choose step back publicly. however, i had sent a message to bulldog privately thanking her for her posts, and i didn't feel right about not voicing my support of what she said publicly when her words have clearly been misinterpreted.

Thank you very much aishah. You do understand what I have been saying perfectly.

I think it is important when we do disagree to do so respectfully. I haven't accused anyone of demonizing or starting a butch vs trans war or making blanket statements. To me that is quite different than Julie and I or Corkey and I having a different point of view and discussing things respectfully.

I believe in any relationship both partners or prospective partners have equal responsibilities. I don't think stone butches or transmen or anyone else have any less responsibility or go through any more than anyone else does. Just because someone doesn't know much about stone butch doesn't mean there is more of a burden on her to learn more about me. We are both equally responsible to learn about and understand each other.

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words

Should have used the mulit-quote feature, so I edited the multiple posts into one. Sorry about that.



In this patriarchal world, yes, "good girls" are expected to keep their mouths shut - which is why I used the phrase, Julie; because it FELT misogynistic to be shamed and called out like that for words and behavior that simply werent there. I was hearing "sit down and shut up like a good little girl while the rest of us talk about this because your opinion doesnt matter."

And I am not going to apologize for calling out what I see as shit-stirring when I see it simply because you are now trying to shame me by calling me ugly. Using a sweeping generalization of "butches are demonizing transguys" was in my opinion, doing nothing but stirring shit because that wasnt what was happening.

I am not telling anyone here how to behave, I would sincerely appreciate the same in return.

Thanks.



Actually, Julie, I never called anyone any names; you however have called me ugly more than once for calling out what I saw as shit-stirring.



You had more than "an opinion."

You accused butches of trying to "demonize transguys" and then tried to shame us with those accusations and some sweeping generalizations of your own.

The end.


ps - I didnt call you a shit stirrer, I said you were stirring shit. It might be splitting hairs, but I wanted to call out behavior or words you said, not call you names.

Aishah, I hope you will feel comfortable at some point in your time here, to voice your opinions publicly and not step back when things get heated and even go off-topic. Some of the best learning moments have come about, when we go off topic. It's good you sent Bulldog a private message appreciating her opinions. And you should voice your opinions... Things will always get heated here on the planet, just like they do at home sitting around the kitchen table.

That's right Corkey - You and I have had many differences of opinions. But still, we are always always there for one another. I love this about our community.

Some people can handle it and some cannot.

Bully - not sure why your post did not quote. Oftentimes, our words come across much different online than if we were sitting together. We miss the facial expressions and body language. You and I have not always agreed and you and I have often agreed. It's good to keep the dialogue running. Life would get so dreadful if we all just YESSED (is that a word?) one another.

Julie

Parker -- I never called you UGLY. Believe me, you would know if I did. I said your posting was UGLY and it was.

I would not expect an apology from you... Anymore than I would think you would expect one from me. I feel your writings are condescending, ugly and rude. Just my opinion.


Julie

Anonymity
 

This is completely anonymous, and I am sure it mimics many other relationships as well. As I stated earlier on, I had all intentions of starting this thread and directing her to it. I have since changed my mind, only because I do not want her to see the animosity shared between people I went to for a bit of support. But I will take the advice and information shared back to her, and hope it helps her, even if in a little way.

I don't think it matters. We don't know their names. We don't know where they live. They are not members here. We have no way of identifying them. No privacy has been invaded.

It could be about ANY two individuals facing this issue and dealing with it.

Please do not take the responses in this thread as animosity. We are a messy bunch who speak our minds. None of it is directed/personal towards you or your Daddy.

There is history (good and bad) between some of these folks and it tends to rear it's head in places you would never expect. Most of us have known each other at least 10 yrs and we forget how we could look to new folks.

The written word is a flat media without body language and facial expressions to help understand tone and intent. That plays a big part in how words are 'heard'.

No no no. I did not take it 'personal' at all. I was just hoping for a bit more positive reinforcement, and it has gone completely off task immediately. I am enjoying it, but knowing her, it would scare her. That is all.

laughin...............welcome to the Planet....I have never seen a thread not get side-tracked...........some sooner than others...........:seeingstars:

Thank you Gemme. I don't know how it could have been any clearer. That's why it felt like ill intent to call it disinterest.

Even better Parker. Siblings argue all the time.
My sister's name is Dana and she is not speaking to me - because we argue LOL.

Julie

Not to get off topic - But I am not having Brew. It leaves an ugly taste in my mouth.

LOL