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Apocalipstic and Firedance
Hello Apocalipstic and Firedance,
Maybe I need to clarifications many times - from other message I wrote, Please don't take my messages as facts, its only me sensing tones and growing myself... Also I'm thinking more... Ok, perhaps even cycling... Firedance you wanted to be seen and approach by butches... Apocalipstic you wanted your butch date to approach you in space you two share through connection share and not abandonment, text felt like abandonment. Actually oh and please forgive me if I don't accurately describe your situation please use interpretation ok if needed... Perhaps what I was sensing is language needs also dance, and is it including spirit soul in dance vs shallow... Firedance your language is valid: you wanting to be seen and approach, and you were emotional when butches spoken their language, reversing approach. so I didn't want to sound I was dismissing your language needs. Maybe it sounded this way as I was describing the tone of dance. Its that some times we focus more on human worship through perfecting laws that then denies the spirit soul, and a dance can inter human worship through perfecting through shallow exchange. so maybe I'm cycling here, Apocalipstic please I hope not to dismiss your language of needs, which I was sharing in another message about tones of shallow dance that dismiss spirit soul when I was responding to message in relations of butches demanding femme to approach them for once... Actually in this tone I sense a shallow dance, not really sure if the butches were speaking of their language of needs but more speaking of being fed up... that's another area of writing is when we're unbalance and how that effects our projection outwardly that even language of needs aren't even clear, but its more a shallow of greed a dance of shallow of blind toward pleasures empty pride follows condemnation death. or another word depart from each other, through the death of pride from the growth of condemnation... two things I think I'm speaking about with tones, and now add third which is unbalance that effects projection that can confuse language needs even to self... One is about dance and is it shallow or includes the spirit soul, the other is languages and to learn your own need language and to able read other need languages so then can sense either practice or natural. and now is the third tone: about butches wants femme to approach is that from their unbalance unclear language that they don't even know they're own language of needs that then led to their being fed up, I'm referring to message that firedance wrote and how the butches were towards her... and or if butches wants femmes to approach them, if this is their language need then express it to a femme who wants to approach butches, I'm sure this can happen and a dance of spirit soul however in clear need language that harmoney ... So I think what's going on is articulating more then one tones... To clarify... Tone one: does the dance include spirit soul or is the dance shallow? Tone two: Femme Butch is the need language natural or a form of practice work Tone three: how does the unbalance project their unclear language of needs that's not clear to themselves that led them to feel fed up. |
Elderly poll workers trippin' all over the gender markers. Unknowingly one got it right and the other, who was trying to steer the mine field back to female got it wrong. It happens, but they are old and not necessarily the ones who will ever "get it".
Just an experience from todays adventures in voting. |
Y'all can excuse me or decide to discharge me now, but I am one of those Southerners who do use the familiars allowed me by the gracious women in my life, such as but not limited to: Darlin, Hon, Sugah, Sweetheart, Dearest, etc. AND by all means, when I do say, "you ladies, or "dear lady" I mean it from the deepest sense of respect, as "those" ladies have shown me that they are, indeed, Ladies.
I am only speaking for myself when I say that I am more than a little tired of hearing the ongoing bashing of manners and mannerisms that seem to be all but lost in today's society, save living alive and and well in the hearts of well intended Southern folk and moreover, country folk . It does my heart good to put a smile on a "lady's" face by addressing her as Miss__________ and tipping my hat. More often than not, I am met with a gracious smile or a soft blush and I very VERY much am pleased to have spent one ample millisecond of my energy adding a smidge of charm to an otherwise unextraordinary , uneventful day. If a woman does not wish to be referred to as Lady, or any other familiars, it becomes very clear within about 13 seconds. I will forevermore, refrain from doing so. However, I don't think that woman should get to speak for any other women who actually find it endearing. That to me, is what makes a Lady a Lady. It is her ability to discern for herself and NOT impose upon others. My 2 cents for what it's worth. Ladies.. Gents.. Folks.. tips hat... :cigar2: |
A gents manners always seducers the fact shes being noticed as a woman.
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I have not seen anyone bash manners in this thread. I haven't even run across folks who bash manners outside this website. The opposite is what I see and hear.
No one is imposing anything on anyone except for those who use those terms in reference to someone without their permission. |
This is so wrong. And it makes this butch angry too.
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I'll be me, who cares about rules
I've been thinking more, actually any rules with butch femme is scaring me, cause I've never thought about this before...
All that enter my mind is drawn towards butches and that's it... Forget rules, who cares... I'm into freedom of thought. so I'm not going to abide by any rules, I'm just going to be me... who cares who approach who first or second, if I want to approach I will and or if a butch wants to approach be my guest, I've really put a lot of thought into this, thread and still am - not sure why. Um, I never ever been to this type of place that you describe, I've never been to a femme butch hang out offline before. but still, I'm to the point of saying, I'm me and who cares about rules. I'm me. |
i'm sure it can work both ways. a butch can be offensive with words, and a femme can also. a femme can ask a butch do something that has been generated from the hetero female brain.
if i seem defensive, maybe i am a little lol. :) i just don't think this is a butch problem. but rather a person problem. and i personally am not fond of looking to other people to guide me/correct me in regards to behaviour. if i am in need of someone to tell me how to act, i have person problem issues lol. all is understood that it is needed to tell someone if they say things that are offensive. indeed. and that's what makes a good topic, ... learning. |
Guess depends who ya ask
Female bodied does NOT equate to "Lady" don't matter if you're in Mississippi or New York its NOT ok to impose sugary words on them (female bodied folk)
Not everyone is a: "little lady" "missy" "sweetie" "honey pie" Familiars are not something that we should have to endure to be seen "as proper folk" This isn't the 1800's |
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...so are saying it's not proper to pick someone up for a date on a horse? I may take issue with this. She gets good gas mileage... |
I see I've been quoted, I am busy as heck at work but will be back in as soon as I get some stuff done. :)
Loving the discussion! Desd, different!!! lol. Very very very different. :) |
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But, I DO find it endearing. And I'm also a bit tired of the bashing of manners. (If you can't find enough examples here, see the Old Fashioned thread.) I'm not saying everyone has to use them, but they get you some definite brownie points with me! I use my manners for everyone. I will hold a door open for any person behind me. I forget sometimes to let the butches that like to open doors do it. And I appreciate a butch who does the same. If your manners are only for me, they're not worth much. Let me amend this a bit: I hate it when someone calls me some pet name if I don't know them. So perhaps that's where the disconnect is in this conversation. Jess refers to calling women he knows Miss, not strangers on the street. Unless I'm mistaken. |
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Re reading thread
I'm curious where in this thread has ANYONE "bashed" manners?
I'm going to re read it again to find where people participating have done this... ETA- consentual familiars are simply that. Consentual, "I" was referring to those who don't have that clear consent that do impose familiars on female bodied folk (figured I needed to clarify) |
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My family have always used the...baby, honey, sweethearts. I did too, for awhile. Years ago, when i entered into the professional world, i realized this is not always a good way to address someone and have learned to stop using those cultural "terms of endearment". Or i should say i try. Because i do slip and if i know you and know you well, i will be more relaxed in letting those slip even more often. But, i do also realize they should not be used for all people we meet, so at least i can say, progress has been made. Yesterday we had an electrician come over to fix some things. While on the phone with him, he said to me...."Is it Mrs. or Ms. or should i just say Missy" and he laughed. That felt really bad to me. It even felt icky. I replied back "None of the above, my name is Niki". Thankfully, he did escape me handing his balls to him on a platter by respecting the way i wanted to be addressed. A lot of things in life we do out of habit and again it is crossed and combined with how we were raised. Hopefully, we do evolve however and it is wise, IMO, to try and grow to more of generic or universal way of language. It is a process. But, like i've said many times, change is usually a good thing. |
i used to dislike words such as honey, baby, sweetie, ect. ... even from someone that i knew intimately. but as i've gotten older, i deal with it differently. those who have formed a habit, say with the word honey, and it seems to come with every other sentence spoken, ... that's a dislike for me. and some people think the word baby will get them something they want. i've never gave more if the word baby was thrown in (well not exactly true lol). but i like to feel that comfort from someone that seems to genuinely use words to love. if a child needs attention, and a woman says, "aww sweetie, i'm sorry.", ... and she seems to genuinely care, ... i like that. i loved it as a child when momma would say bless your heart, because i knew she meant it. it wasn't said for no reason. i catch myself saying some of these words, but i say them to share comfort/understanding. i would not say if i didn't mean it. and i don't say to just anyone. i do say, but rare.
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Where is there bashing of manners in the 'Old Fashioned' thread? Reminding people that it's the 21st century is not bashing manners. I would love a post number to prove your statement. You could do it in the 'Old Fashioned' thread since we are not supposed to cross post from other threads Where are manners being bashed in this thread? I'm serious.....please give us the post number so we can see it. Calling people honey baby sweetie sugar pie is not about manners. It's about overstepping the boundaries of being polite and well-mannered. If you don't believe it then go look it up in Miss Manners or any other of the many books on etiquette. |
I know someone this happened to - and I shake my head that she didn't realize she was being disrespected so.
I tell her over and over - you don't have to *work any magic* just be yourself and never let anyone use you. I think it's starting to sink in - I myself hate being reduced to Honey, Sugar, Sweetie Pie, Babe.... I have a name - to reduce me to some name because you can't remember mine or you just are lazy then we don't have enough in common to stay friends. Da Schmooze and I have consentual familiars and we enjoy them because we are partnered, but that doesn't give anyone else the right. I'm lucky in the respect that I only got that other kind of treatment in the straight world by cis men. I didn't realize at the time it was wrong as I wasn't a feminist I was young and rather stupid lol Again, I'm treated to Missy, Lil Lady honey etc by straight men on the phone when we are talking about their cable products. I can't countermand them and demand they call me Sunny (my chosen name) as my calls are recorded and I have to put up with it - just another day in paradise at my job lol |
So I have to pop in and confess that I have a terrible "hun" habit from years and years of bartending and waitressing....as in "what can I get for you hun?"
You're all giving me something to think about.....thanks. :rrose: |
Most epic post ever lol
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As a teenager I was not allowed to leave the house with a date who did not come to the door, so my expectation now is that someone will do that now too, though there is no set rule that says it will happen. I was not really interested in the person I went to the party with anyway and was only going out because my roommate and friends said I was being lazy not dating more and that I should go. :| I was not in the right frame of mind to start with, which I am sure influenced how I felt about her manners. Quote:
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Maybe it is our Food and Beverage background? Quote:
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Really, honestly...and I've thought about this a lot...it mostly irks me if a man calls me one of those names, but not always. It depends on who it is and context. Whewwwwww! |
i watched one of my cooks try and get a server to show him some cleavage before he would put her food in the window for her. Of, course she didn't, she was appalled. Even grosser he was married with kids. I fired him along with two other line cooks that were involved in onlooking. Yuck right!!!
For me, manners are global not regional so using familiars in any situation is not always popular or sensitive. Most people i attended college with were from different countries and some things were ok and some were not. i have seen gay men objectify women they were with this way. i have seen a woman send her girlfriend to get them free drinks when i was at a festival. This seemed to be consented to by the girlfriend but i did not know them. i know it happens probably a lot in the LGBTIQ community. |
Firedance you should pick a bone with those butches or whoever else that does that to you and you have every right!
People who do what you mentioned need to learn some respect for femmes and females in general. You are right about the dance and having each others back. If you are going to have a butches back and stand up for them and be there for them they should do the same for you and not add to the damn shambles of hate and not treating a woman right. There are butches and others (male and female) of all ages that would never do this. To those you encounter that do, put them in their place! I like this idea by JAGG: Quote:
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