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-   Communication, Friendship, Getting To Know One Another (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=130)
-   -   Negotiating Silence (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497)

NotAnAverageGuy 12-09-2009 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemme (Post 19143)
I am aware of what anarchy entails, but thank you for elaborating.

When you find this utopia for yourself, send a postcard, yes?

I can't speak for others, but I'll be here with my rules and boundaries and whatnot, watching the lights on the tree.

:smileyXmasTree:
Yes I shall send postcards when I find it but they might be just plain ones nothing fancy or maybe with the big anarchy symbol in black and red.

Arwen 12-09-2009 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy (Post 19128)
not asking for a free pass, just the fact that a person should be able to say or do what they want without the fear of being banned, repped negatively, etc.

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

This would work if we could trust one another not to say or do thing intentionally to hurt. Unfortunately, we all know that people will do and say things that hurt--sometimes intentionally.

There are things that I think do NEED to be silenced. Things that SuperFemme mentioned like racism and that ilk.

I do not believe we have the right to say anything we want in public. That is not, to me, what freedom of speech is meant for. Plus, that is a fairly American (I think) concept so it may not play well in all cultures. :)

I also am very much a change from within rather than a change from without which is what I view anarchy as. A very simplistic view to be sure!

NotAnAverageGuy 12-09-2009 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwen (Post 19154)

This would work if we could trust one another not to say or do thing intentionally to hurt. Unfortunately, we all know that people will do and say things that hurt--sometimes intentionally.

There are things that I think do NEED to be silenced. Things that SuperFemme mentioned like racism and that ilk.

I do not believe we have the right to say anything we want in public. That is not, to me, what freedom of speech is meant for. Plus, that is a fairly American (I think) concept so it may not play well in all cultures. :)

I also am very much a change from within rather than a change from without which is what I view anarchy as. A very simplistic view to be sure!
I agree with the first paragraph, and I do know people do, do those things on purpose.

I am just the type who says what and to whom I want to in public, that's how I was brought up. I am also very blunt, honest and rude about things when pissed off.

Arwen 12-09-2009 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy (Post 19155)
I agree with the first paragraph, and I do know people do, do those things on purpose.

I am just the type who says what and to whom I want to in public, that's how I was brought up. I am also very blunt, honest and rude about things when pissed off.
And my truth is that I know that when I am angry or worse, hurt, I can be very very strident and razor-sharp. I used to have a good friend I could send things to for "review" before posting. That relationship has changed so I don't have that luxury anymore.

When I am angry, I do my best to not post or to phrase it so that it is very clear that I am angry and venting.

If I am hurt, I tend to lash out at anything and anyone that moves. When I had to put my beloved dog down a month ago today, I went no mail on several email lists and locked myself down on how and what to post.

I do not want to be that person anymore. That is part of the bitter, gossiping woman I have made a pledge to not be. :)

So, when I can't seek joy and I know I'm angry or hurt, I will remove myself as much as possible from the "easy" targets some forums (online lists and chats for the most part) make.

That way I can't show my rear so much. It's not easy. I've shown that part of my anatomy A LOT. Many people still expect it. That is not within my hula-hoop. All I can do is move forward and keep within my personal boundaries as best I can.

So, there are times when I silence myself intentionally.

NotAnAverageGuy 12-09-2009 11:13 PM
Thats a good way to be and I understand how you feel about things

I am just glad we all can agree to disagree and help others out rather than fighting ya know

julieisafemme 12-10-2009 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Words (Post 18723)
The only thing that always, or nearly always, silences me - because I'm simply unable to understand - is language that for me, is too 'academic'. Why does it silence me? Because I'm afraid of looking stupid by asking, ''What, exactly, do you mean?'' There, I owned it.

I do believe that in some cases - note, I said some - some folks will use their superior language skills/intelligence/education/whatever as a way of silencing others. I have seen it happen - not here, but on other sites, one in particular - and it disgusts me because it implies, to me, a total lack of respect for others and their abilities, or lack thereof. And please don't tell me I'm imagining this, because I'm not. It happens, it's disgusting, and to me, it's no different to laughing behind the back of someone with a physical or mental disability.

I also believe, however, that some folks simply do not realize that the average person on the street is not capable of understanding the type of language they use. So although what they write might be silencing, they are not, in my opinion, and in contrast to those mentioned in the paragraph above - guilty of deliberately silencing others.

Apart from that? There's not much that will silence me or cause me to be silent. As many, I'm sure, will confirm;)

Words
Thank you for this post!!!! I have never felt stupid anywhere in my life until I started posting online. I do believe my IQ has dropped 20 points. Academic language is hard for me to touch and hold and twist around. Tell me a story about feelings and I will understand instantly.

Medusa 12-10-2009 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by julieisafemme (Post 19503)
Thank you for this post!!!! I have never felt stupid anywhere in my life until I started posting online. I do believe my IQ has dropped 20 points. Academic language is hard for me to touch and hold and twist around. Tell me a story about feelings and I will understand instantly.
This would actually be a GREAT thread. A discussion on how academic language changes a conversation or the overtones of elitism (or lack thereof).

Cyclopea made a BEAUTIFUL post about academic language in another thread that I would like to see be part of that conversation.

My opinion: Academic language can feel silencing. Yes.

Cyclopea 12-10-2009 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa (Post 19524)
This would actually be a GREAT thread. A discussion on how academic language changes a conversation or the overtones of elitism (or lack thereof).

Cyclopea made a BEAUTIFUL post about academic language in another thread that I would like to see be part of that conversation.

My opinion: Academic language can feel silencing. Yes.
Thank You Medusa for liking my post.:)

As a footnote (and shameless plug): I started a whole thread spoofing overwrought highfalutin "academese"-
"Chair Dance: Expressionism, Post Modernism, and Popular Culture".

So if anyone wants to spew a bunch of non-sensical smart-sounding bullshit about a stupid topic, come on over!
http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...read.php?t=391
And bring your multi-quote button! Cite your sources! Consult your thesaurus!
:rofl:

Hudson 12-10-2009 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclopea (Post 19604)
Thank You Medusa for liking my post.:)

As a footnote (and shameless plug): I started a whole thread spoofing overwrought highfalutin "academese"-
"Chair Dance: Expressionism, Post Modernism, and Popular Culture".

So if anyone wants to spew a bunch of non-sensical smart-sounding bullshit about a stupid topic, come on over!
http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...read.php?t=391
And bring your multi-quote button! Cite your sources! Consult your thesaurus!
:rofl:

Ha, this is my favorite post ever.

Bit 12-10-2009 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclopea (Post 19604)
As a footnote (and shameless plug): I started a whole thread spoofing overwrought highfalutin "academese"-
"Chair Dance: Expressionism, Post Modernism, and Popular Culture".
Ohhhhhhhhhmigawd *big relief* that was a spoof?! you did it so VERY well that I thought you were serious... and um... well... missin' a few screws from your toolbox, lol... :seconddoh:

Cyclopea 12-10-2009 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson (Post 19606)
Ha, this is my favorite post ever.
Thank You!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit (Post 19608)
Ohhhhhhhhhmigawd *big relief* that was a spoof?! you did it so VERY well that I thought you were serious... and um... well... missin' a few screws from your toolbox, lol... :seconddoh:
LMAO!!! Well the jury is still out on the missing screws, ha, but even after I invited chairmakers into the thread to offer their perspective? Really? :huhlaugh:
Satire is a fine line and I guess I did my job too well. Scary!
:jester:
:superfunny:

Cyclopea 12-10-2009 01:42 PM
OK sorry for the derail!
:eek:

Andrew, Jr. 12-14-2009 03:23 PM
How do you read a poster's tone of voice in a thread?

apretty 12-14-2009 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr. (Post 21466)
How do you read a poster's tone of voice in a thread?
by paying close attention to the details: content, choice of words, word usage, as well as punctuation. much like reading.

apretty 12-14-2009 04:01 PM
i forgot 'context'

Bob 12-14-2009 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr. (Post 21466)
How do you read a poster's tone of voice in a thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by apretty (Post 21480)
by paying close attention to the details: content, choice of words, word usage, as well as punctuation. much like reading.
Actually, it's not very easy (especially with people you don't know well, I'd imagine.)

"How good are you at guessing the tone of voice of the emails you receive? Can you tell when someone is being sarcastic, serious or is joking?
Most of us think we can do this about 90% of the time. However, according to psychologists Dr. Nicholas Epley (University of Chicago) and Dr. Justin Kruger (New York University), who published their research in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (membership required to access), we get it wrong 50% of the time. Those are the same odds as tossing a coin."

http://email-overloaded.com/2006/07/...tone-of-voice/

Queerasfck 12-14-2009 04:05 PM
I don't read posts. I just look at the smilies. I love 'em.

:whoop:

apretty 12-14-2009 04:05 PM
bob, stop being wrong.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob (Post 21482)
Actually, it's not very easy (especially with people you don't know well, I'd imagine.)

"How good are you at guessing the tone of voice of the emails you receive? Can you tell when someone is being sarcastic, serious or is joking?
Most of us think we can do this about 90% of the time. However, according to psychologists Dr. Nicholas Epley (University of Chicago) and Dr. Justin Kruger (New York University), who published their research in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (membership required to access), we get it wrong 50% of the time. Those are the same odds as tossing a coin."

http://email-overloaded.com/2006/07/...tone-of-voice/
false. bob is wrong. i can clearly denote tone every.single.time.

Apocalipstic 12-14-2009 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apretty (Post 21480)
by paying close attention to the details: content, choice of words, word usage, as well as punctuation. much like reading.

Sometimes I can't.

Some people express themselves better than others, and what is rude or sarcastinc in NYC (for example) is way different than in Nashville. Something may sound abrupt to me, and it be the sweetest post ever to a person in Detroit (for example)

I try to go with face value, but as you know sometimes come up with the wrong conclusion.

Working on it though :)

I see so many reading comprehension misunderstandings. Not from you APretty, but in general.

Andrew, Jr. 12-14-2009 05:20 PM
I struggle with this. I cannot figure out who is joking or who is threatening or who is asking a question. I find it confusing.

christie 12-14-2009 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr. (Post 21513)
I struggle with this. I cannot figure out who is joking or who is threatening or who is asking a question. I find it confusing.
You might wanna check out this great thread:

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...+communication

Its all about online communication.

violaine 07-29-2010 12:06 AM
[QUOTE=NJFemmie;18678]I've witnessed "silencing" usually when someone tries to proclaim something as "wrong". Things may be wrong to (collectively speaking) you - but if you don't agree with something, find it useful or pertinent to YOU, it doesn't make it wrong for someone else.

I suppose it's human nature to attempt to convince others of one's own beliefs. The end result is usually silence or the feeling of alienation.

i have been looking through so many threads trying to find one on 'history', and instead, i keep stumbling across good topics.

i've noticed the same thing you are describing, and have wondered in situations why disagreeing is considered 'wrong' - or why is it 'wrong' to disagree? what if the word 'wrong' was switched to something else ?

AtLast 07-29-2010 03:10 AM
[quote=violaine;162771]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJFemmie (Post 18678)
I've witnessed "silencing" usually when someone tries to proclaim something as "wrong". Things may be wrong to (collectively speaking) you - but if you don't agree with something, find it useful or pertinent to YOU, it doesn't make it wrong for someone else.

I suppose it's human nature to attempt to convince others of one's own beliefs. The end result is usually silence or the feeling of alienation.

i have been looking through so many threads trying to find one on 'history', and instead, i keep stumbling across good topics.

i've noticed the same thing you are describing, and have wondered in situations why disagreeing is considered 'wrong' - or why is it 'wrong' to disagree? what if the word 'wrong' was switched to something else ?
It is odd to view disagreement as wrong. Thinking about putting negotiation into the mix and disagreement becomes a positive interaction. Sometimes I think people become silent because of fearing confrontation. Then, again, I have certainly known people in my life that simply want to be right and have no intention of communicating. Sometimes that is what it feels like online to me. A lot of grandstanding and not much in trying to understand what someone is expressing.

imperfect_cupcake 07-29-2010 01:00 PM
hmn. online is far different than in person. in person silencing happens - with me - if I perceive a threat. I will suddenly become very polite, cut the conversation short as possible and leave.

If I don't find it threatening, I'll mouth off.

On line... tbh, if I don't believe anyone will listen to what I have to say, my reasons, my logic, my experiences, and I think the people involved so far will only mock and belittle and dispute rather than honestly consider - rather than plan an articulate defence/forward demand/whatever - then I really can't be arsed. why should I waste my valuable time trying to engage, as far as I'm concerned, a bowl of screws and bolts? I might as well have an argument with my bathroom wall.

so when I stop talking is when I think others aren't listening. or aren't there to listen, discuss but merely to be right. I really honestly can't be arsed with that kind of stuff any more.


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