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Arwen 12-20-2009 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julieisafemme (Post 23641)
Ok this is a very personal pet peeve of mine about language and popular use of it. I hear lots of times people say "oh I am so OCD" about this or that. It bugs me for a few reasons. The first is the correct way to say it is "I am so OC" obsessive compulsive, not I am so obsessive compulsive disorder. The other reason is that I have OCD and have lived with it for most of my life. It is a lot more than cleaning. The pain that is associated with the compulsions (cleaning, hand washing, counting) is terrible. The obsessions that cause the compulsions are exhausting. I am mentally ill or crazy. I am reclaiming those words and often use the c word to describe myself (crazy). Having any kind of mental illness it stigmatizing. When I hear someone joking about being a fanatic housekeeper and equating that with OCD it makes me feel invisible.


Thank you for saying this. This is a term I actually use more than necessary. I use it in a joking way a lot. I will work on remembering that this is not a toss-away word but a very real affliction for some people in this world.

So thanks for taking the time and having the courage to put that out there, Julie.

Andrew, Jr. 12-20-2009 07:30 PM

I struggle all the time with oral communication. It takes me alot of courage to post online here. What I say and what I mean sometimes comes out wrong, or what I mean is read differently by others, and they get so angry. It boggles my mind because I really am lost on what is so upsetting. And I can pretty much guarantee that I don't mean any harm by what I am saying. I just struggle with the words & reading comprehension. Dyslexia does that to me.

That is what my real life is like. That is why I got and still get called retard. I hate some words like stupid, lazy, and retard. I also hate confrontation. It just is that people don't understand me. I feel so isolated sometimes. And sometimes I just stop trying. It is one thing to be forgiving. It is another to really understand.

I hope this makes sense.

Andrew

Dragonfly 12-20-2009 08:15 PM

words
 
As human beings, no one can be perfect. Things get said and misunderstood. IMHO it is the reaction given to those mistakes. By others who hear/ read the mistakes and also by the person saying it to begin with. It isnt censorship to express your thoughts and opinions with consideration for other's feelings. It isn't about political correct to express offense to things and explain why. What causes a breakdown in communication, feeling welcome or safe to post, and comfortable to be valued for your opinion is the Over-reactions to it. There is a good way to handle bad feelings I think....

:gimmehug: Andrew: I hope more tolerance and understanding (with loving compassion) flows your way than the name calling... and I wish for you to find a way to allow the positive people to out shine the negative when you look around you....

SuperFemme 12-20-2009 08:56 PM

I have no impulse control and absolutely NO FILTER.
This happened with my head bump, and I have struggled to finesse the lack of impulse and the lack of filter to make myself fit for human consumption.
Still, it is up to me. The world need not bend around my brain injury, my brain injury must in fact bend around the world.

I like cheese. I love Ponies. I get called names and it makes me laugh. In my head I am thinking "Oh honey, you have no idea".



WolfyOne 12-20-2009 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 23852)
I have no impulse control and absolutely NO FILTER.
This happened with my head bump, and I have struggled to finesse the lack of impulse and the lack of filter to make myself fit for human consumption.
Still, it is up to me. The world need not bend around my brain injury, my brain injury must in fact bend around the world.

I like cheese. I love Ponies. I get called names and it makes me laugh. In my head I am thinking "Oh honey, you have no idea".




Reading what you wrote(in red) made me remember something I read painted on a wall. It said, if it is to be, it is up to me. If we let every little thing that is written or said bother us, we'd walk around angry all the time. Laughter is good for the soul, so lets laugh as you do when someone wants to provoke us.

Oh and I'd call you a name right now, but I can't think of any good ones. So, if it's all the same to you, I'll just call you Adele.

SuperFemme 12-20-2009 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfyOne (Post 23875)
Reading what you wrote(in red) made me remember something I read painted on a wall. It said, if it is to be, it is up to me. If we let every little thing that is written or said bother us, we'd walk around angry all the time. Laughter is good for the soul, so lets laugh as you do when someone wants to provoke us.

Oh and I'd call you a name right now, but I can't think of any good ones. So, if it's all the same to you, I'll just call you Adele.



Awww. Wolfy! You made my eyes leak.
The people that know me and love me accept me. Warts and all.
I'm blessed to be able to count a handful of people who love my swiss cheese.
BTW, I want you to know that I'd never call you late for dinner!

Random 12-20-2009 11:01 PM

I struggle with this issue..

It feels like such a slippery slope to me...


On one hand I think that we as a society can become too *polite* too careful.. We want to make sure that no one is offended...

But someone is going to be offended by something.. Period..

Where does it end?

Art?
Film?
Music?
Books?

People have both fought for and against the right to censor these things..

Shouldn't it be up to each indivdual to decide (i hate that word, I have to type it three times EVERY TIME to get it right) what is right for them...

But on the other hand... Words have power.. to lift up and to tear down..

I think for me... Anytime ANY word is used in a negitive way.. then I hate it being used that way... and of course I express that feeling.. rather strongly...

There is a book... For some reason it came into my mind while I was reading this thread...

I can't remember the name of it.. It's about a society that frowns on strong emotions, strong colors, over dramatic use of language.. Everything is for the good of the community... Everyone has classes.. when you get to a certain age, then you do a certain thing.. The main charater is a boy who is going to become the keeper of memories and feelings.. He will hold all the stronger emotions for the comunity.. So they can be pure...

They say that they love, but they really don't know what love is, they say anger, but they don't know what it is...

They have traded the *flavor/passion* of life for safety and the well being of the community.. If a baby won't sleep through the night, then it's put to sleep.. If someone threatens the peacefulness of the comunity then they are given the needle..

For a book that made such an inpression on me,I can't ever remember it's freaking name!!!!!

For me.. self expression is the greatest freedom there is.. But that is a two sided coin.. If I want the right to express myself, then I have to expect that right for everyone else..

*shrug* For me.. there is no answer.. I try to be mindful of other people.. as I want them to be mindful of me... but I also have no intention of being so worried about my words, that I silence myself..000

WILDCAT 12-20-2009 11:41 PM

Oops, this is "lengthy"...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 23852)
I have no impulse control and absolutely NO FILTER.
This happened with my head bump, and I have struggled to finesse the lack of impulse and the lack of filter to make myself fit for human consumption.
Still, it is up to me. The world need not bend around my brain injury, my brain injury must in fact bend around the world.

I like cheese. I love Ponies. I get called names and it makes me laugh. In my head I am thinking "Oh honey, you have no idea".



Well, I like people who "like cheese". I love people who LOVE PONIES! And I adore folks with a wonderful sense of humor - and you have one brilliant, beautiful mind! So, BIG HUGE HUGS to you Sister Mountain!!

So, julieisafemme - about that OCD thing. Yes, just not using the acronym phrasing correctly could/would be a trigger! I do make reference to my "OCD stuff" quite a bit. And I think it's GOOD that you use the word crazy and "reclaim" that word for yourself. I do as well.

I feel "compulsive" to explain to folks why I straighten up their rugs if they are crooked when I walk into their homes, or rearrange the kitchen chairs all perfectly around the table, etc... I usually let them know their picture on a wall is not square - and ask them if they want me to straighten that up. (I have a really good eye for that!) I guess in the clear case of art, they may have wanted it off kilter and I respect that more. Biased I know. They might need their chairs at "their own" angles artistically too!

I could go on and on. I've gotten pretty good with nonchalantly doing these things. HERE, in my place, I am on the wrong end of [my] OCD and it scares me some. I do feel overwhemled at times. (And no, I don't do this rearranging to strangers in their homes, but to family and friends who know this about me!)

However, I am sure I've said this "ODC phrase" incorrectly too at times. But, I want folks to know what I am referring to. But, to not understand how comsuming and tiring this all is and throw it out there simply as a joke... I'm really glad you spoke up here about it. Thank you.

Actually, in fact, this reminds me of one of my troublesome things here in large community writing. For example, I know "alot" is not one word. When folks say they HATE seeing that or it "drives them nuts", I've had to be really thoughtful then. Now, is it their own OCD talking? Or, just bitching for fun and fluff. I'll tell you how I take it (like a thread about hating people's improper grammar, typo's, etc... "DUMBING DOWN", that is a good one)... It feels so incredibly judgmental to me. To not consider that someone might be head injured, have a different level of education, not speak English as their primary language, have developmental disorders, or birth defects, on and on, etc... To me, actually, "a LOT", is a parcel of land, with a very specific dimension footage-wise. (My humor, I know it has more than one meaning.) So, forgive me when I do that, and I hope it doesn't ruin anyone's day. And yes, once I believe I DID write "irregardless", so shoot me. I may have had a migraine that day. But, the main point is, this is hurtful to many I think for all of these reasons I mentioned above and keeps folks from writing and creates fear for being a part of our experience here - for these "tearing apart" concepts of nit-picking. Not that anyone can't do a thread like that here. That's fine. I'm saying how it could possibly make folks feel, for everyone has imperfections for reasons we do not always know about. And last I read here, we didn't have to have a doctorate in writing/literature to belong and participate.

And yes, I was raised by my mother to stick up for the "underdogs".

My exception for the "dumbing down" sentiment would be when folks are writing hating things and not backing them up. Even when asked and asked about where they got their facts, etc... they can't or won't do it. I do not mind folks being questioned or challenged with that AT ALL.

Last thing now I must say. I will always use the word gypsy and refer to myself as such. It is a proud part of my history. I disagree that it is a negative word. My girlfriend from Romania and I have discussed this at great length. It IS often used as a racist word there - it is one of the most horrible words you could be called in the street or referred to! That is their own discimination, there. Like we have some here. To the gypsies THERE, it is horrible for them. They get profiled, not unlike some culture or racial groups do here. (You can figure them out, but I will say our best example: Queer = pedophile.)

Not debating you Arwen and I see how hard you are trying - and completely respect that. I just don't want folks to think I am being racist using that word... for to me it is a wonderful, beautiful word - in fact, brave way of being or walking through life.

YEARS back here, folks were biased against bands of gypsies too! If you didn't work in a factory or job that you absolutely hated, in order to "be seen as responsible", for 50+ years you were heavily criticized. Now, we know that some folks need and must change their careers several times - or their location in living. (And of course you do what you have to when the kids need food. Work-wise, not holding up an elderly lady on the street or robbing a liquor store!)

Some folks are nomads in spirit, or it is tradition. Not all boxcar jumpers were/are alcoholics either. Some cross country hikers and bikers are not aimless drifters. Not all homeless folks are "bums, drunks, illiterate". In fact some homeless folks I knew in N.Y.C. had IQ's so HIGH, it was stunning. Some of them had been professors at one time, etc... They just had to "leave society", as they could not or would not be part of what was "expected". What is "normal" anyway? (I realize this is not across the board for ALL people, some DO have addictions, some DID LOSE their jobs, some ARE mentally ill, etc.. that is not my point here. I'm talking about the exceptions, the ones who are world travelers, who need and require complete freedom in a way that most of us cannot understand, to go into the wild to be alone, for example... to find their most creative selves perhaps.) I don't feel like judging someone who is different than me. If someone knows how to forage for food, and cooks dandelions for lunch, or has a complete and thorough knowledge of medicinal herbs - then power to 'em, I'm happy for their chosen independence from the "expected norms" in society.

Anyway, I am proud of my gypsy spirit and love that part of me. The ONLY thing I don't like about it, is that my spirit has been trapped here for awhile. I've had some difficult circumstances the past few years. That hurts me more than anyone could imagine, and everyone who knows me then as well - is affected by this.

Thanks for allowing me to share these things. I feel better, don't you?!

Sincerely,
WILDCAT

*About the PC commenting. We are all so different. Again, we know what is insulting, usually. And good point about knowing the difference between being considerate and completely ignorant and hurtful. I don't care if someone uses words in understanding between theirselves - even here, (that I might not use here, but with friends in private - yes). If you call someone a "crazy bitch", you probaby should be friends though, and understand it is with love and humor or expect a direct confrontation - and if someone does NOT "know" that (about who are friends and whatnot), they might also question it, politely, of course. :artist:

:stillheart:

Arwen 12-21-2009 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn (Post 23880)
There is a book... For some reason it came into my mind while I was reading this thread...

I can't remember the name of it.. It's about a society that frowns on strong emotions, strong colors, over dramatic use of language.. Everything is for the good of the community... Everyone has classes.. when you get to a certain age, then you do a certain thing.. The main charater is a boy who is going to become the keeper of memories and feelings.. He will hold all the stronger emotions for the comunity.. So they can be pure...

That's The Giver by Lois B(urton?) and it blew me away when I read it this past year for a class.

It's the first of three novels apparently. I've only read that one.

I see where you could get that energy from this thread. I really do.

However, I think it is the intent. I laughed my REAR off Saturday night while watching Robin Williams. And believe you me, the man was offensive as all get out. No really! He hit some buttons pretty hard--one of them being some stereotypes we've discussed here.

But I think if I said to you, Cyn, it makes me uncomfortable when you use the word "blue" around me (and gave you a compelling reason) that you would probably not use that word around me.

Knowing our audience. For me, it's about knowing my audience. In a large community like this, I can't know my audience that well. That's probably how smaller more intimate groups get formed (the so-called "cool kids" syndrome.)

We gravitate towards those that laugh and feel and emote like us.

Can we expect all of us here to homogenize with the rest? Nope. Not gonna happen. Because, like in The Giver, our world would become bland. But I can try not to intentionally hurt someone.

Random 12-21-2009 01:39 AM

My post went bye bye and now I'm too tired to redue it..

Will comment again tomorrow..

Random 12-21-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen (Post 23908)
That's The Giver by Lois B(urton?) and it blew me away when I read it this past year for a class.

It's the first of three novels apparently. I've only read that one.

I see where you could get that energy from this thread. I really do.

However, I think it is the intent. I laughed my REAR off Saturday night while watching Robin Williams. And believe you me, the man was offensive as all get out. No really! He hit some buttons pretty hard--one of them being some stereotypes we've discussed here.

But I think if I said to you, Cyn, it makes me uncomfortable when you use the word "blue" around me (and gave you a compelling reason) that you would probably not use that word around me.

Knowing our audience. For me, it's about knowing my audience. In a large community like this, I can't know my audience that well. That's probably how smaller more intimate groups get formed (the so-called "cool kids" syndrome.)

We gravitate towards those that laugh and feel and emote like us.

Can we expect all of us here to homogenize with the rest? Nope. Not gonna happen. Because, like in The Giver, our world would become bland. But I can try not to intentionally hurt someone.

Thank you... all my books are still packed.. (Still looking for those perfect narrow TALL bookcase)

I hear what you are saying..

It's up to us to be mindful of each other.. While being true to who we are at the core... it's actually harder than going one way or the other.. Balance is the key, I think..

You are right.. knowing your crowd is the key... I feel more comfortable being a bit ranchy with some folks than with others...

Selenay 12-21-2009 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen (Post 23908)
That's The Giver by Lois B(urton?) and it blew me away when I read it this past year for a class.

It's the first of three novels apparently. I've only read that one.


Lois Lowry, and the trilogy is The Giver, Gathering Blue and Messenger.

Andrew, Jr. 12-21-2009 11:34 AM

Yep, I have swiss cheese for a brain. It happened from an accident when I was a day old, and dropped on my head onto a hardwood floor. My skull was cracked and some major blood vessels tore open.

It still doesn't stop ppl from calling me retard or idiot, the looks when my tic starts, or the negative responses I usually get when my words don't match what my thoughts are, or if I have a seizure in public. It hasn't happened yet.

I think it also has to do with how ppl are perceived. Superfemme is perceived one way, and I am another. If we both were laying on the ground unconscious, who do you think ppl would go to first? My bet is on Superfemme without a doubt.

I believe that most ppl fear the unknown. It was like when my adopted father had his stroke. He lost the left side of his body. One day he was walking to the mailbox using his walker, and his neighbors seeing this, waved hi to him, but did not stop to chat as was the usual. Having good health is a gift. When you don't have it, and you have chronic health problems, it changes you. You don't see life and living as the same as someone who is healthy.

Arwen 12-21-2009 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn (Post 24018)
It's up to us to be mindful of each other.. While being true to who we are at the core... it's actually harder than going one way or the other.. Balance is the key, I think..

You are right.. knowing your crowd is the key... I feel more comfortable being a bit ranchy with some folks than with others...


So what are our obligations to one another? How do we live a life that is true to ourselves and still respectful of our fellow humans?

If I call someone a stupid redneck because they've just called me a dyke--who am I hurting, if anyone?

If I am angry at another woman and I call her a fat, stupid cow--have I insulted cows, other women and myself (since I am fat)?

I think on some level we ALL do this. I honestly do not know of anyone who doesn't react in anger and speak from that ugly place we all own.

How do I learn how to speak from that loving, joyful place? Is it necessary to do that all the time?

I think, for me, it is. I could live my life whining about how others have hurt me. Or, I can forgive them and release all that negativity in my soul to make room for better stuff.

That is one reason that I choose to seek joy. I've now layered in forgiveness for those who've intentionally hurt me. It feels good but it also feels weird. I'm not used to it yet. But I know when I engage in :gossip: I will make it the good kind rather than the hurtful kind.

SuperFemme 12-21-2009 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr. (Post 24041)
Yep, I have swiss cheese for a brain. It happened from an accident when I was a day old, and dropped on my head onto a hardwood floor. My skull was cracked and some major blood vessels tore open.

It still doesn't stop ppl from calling me retard or idiot, the looks when my tic starts, or the negative responses I usually get when my words don't match what my thoughts are, or if I have a seizure in public. It hasn't happened yet.

I think it also has to do with how ppl are perceived. Superfemme is perceived one way, and I am another. If we both were laying on the ground unconscious, who do you think ppl would go to first? My bet is on Superfemme without a doubt.

I believe that most ppl fear the unknown. It was like when my adopted father had his stroke. He lost the left side of his body. One day he was walking to the mailbox using his walker, and his neighbors seeing this, waved hi to him, but did not stop to chat as was the usual. Having good health is a gift. When you don't have it, and you have chronic health problems, it changes you. You don't see life and living as the same as someone who is healthy.

I think this is a great lesson in SELF perception. Because I have had many seizures in public Woodie. Hmm. Let me give you a few examples. One time I had a doozie of a seizure in the supermarket. When I came to the store security was pointing a gun at me.

Two other times I went from having a seizure to nobody helping, calling for help and tried to walk myself home. These two times I was arrested for *drunk in public* despite having a letter from my Neurosurgeon and a seizure card and medic alert bracelet. I blew 0.0 on the breathalyzer and then had forced blood tests. I sat in jail for over eight hours until the results came back. Without apology.

I flew to NM with my family who had decided my head injury was me being dramatic. We got off the shuttle at the car rental place and again I had a doozie. My own fucking family stepped right over me and left me laying on the cement in 102 degree weather. The shuttle driver turned me on my side and talked gently to me. He had a son with epilepsy.

In Vegas in 06 I had a seizure during the Ball at the Bash. Do you remember that? Because everybody walked right by me, and when I was taken to the ladies room by a dear friend? Bash attendee's were coming in and rolling their eyes.

The only place I experienced compassion was in my brain injury school. We all looked out for each other and had a plan of action. The teachers knew my quirks and could tell when I was going to seize. They kept a pillow and blanket in the cupboard and always made sure I didn't get hurt and that I came to in a soft, quiet and safe environment. We all did that for each other because it is kind of like a special club we are in, where only we can truly know...

So the assumption that I get some kind of pretty privilege is hurtful. At the end of the day we are the same. We have these seizures and it scares the bystanders because it is in the realm of the unknown for them. It usually traumatizes them, and then us because we hear the nasty/ignorant comments as we are trying to find our way back to our bodies.

Regardless of the bad experiences I am NOT a victim. I am a fucking MIRACLE and if one person learns something and changes their perspective after witnessing my seizure, then perhaps they will pass it on and the torch of empathy, compassion, and love will burn a little brighter. You are a miracle to Woodie. Not a victim.

I have to say that you hurt my feelings, but only for a second. Because I'm not giving them away. :byebye:

Andrew, Jr. 12-21-2009 01:53 PM

Superfemme,

Like you, I have had seizures in public. And yes, people walked overtop of me during my seizures. It was at my last job. I was left alone. Afterwards, I peed myself, and vomited. It is all apart of epilespy. I had to give a blood test to my employer to verify I wasn't drunk as well. I also had to hire a lawyer. They tried to fire me for being who and what I was for years. Then to have epilespy was just one more thing to throw in the pot. My employer also tried to have my driver's license taken away from me.

You are not understanding what it is I am trying to say. I apologise to you if I hurt you. That is not my intent. Not at all. And I am the same way as you, but I am trying to bring those who are the "norm" to our world. To build a bridge. Not to make you a victim. That is confusing to me. Perception is different to each one of us. I am very happy you found compassion. I have yet to find it within a group. I have found compassion person by person. That is it. Even in my rehab. group, each one of us was handicapped in different ways. There was no way we could have compassion for each other since we had no clue as to what compassion even was.

Anyway, my apologisies to you. I meant no harm, ugliness, or evilness. I won't be back here. I don't want to get timed out, banned, or anything else.

Andrew

WolfyOne 12-21-2009 04:07 PM

Just wanted to chime in and say what a great thread topic this is. I haven't seen one this good anywhere in a long time. Thanks for getting us started Medusa.

Diva 12-21-2009 06:28 PM

My heart goes out to SF and Andrew in light of insensitive treatment by others. Shame on those people.

In other news, I'm a flippant kinda girl (the [sometimes] "lacking seriousness" part, not the "lacking respect" part). When I was in college learning how to teach, one of the things we were "taught" was NEVER to use sarcasm. I discarded that 'rule', as I couldn't teach without it. That being said, there are 2 types of sarcasm....I don't have to tell YOU that.....there's silly sarcasm and there's hateful (hate-filled sarcasm.....which, imho, is oh~so passive-aggressive).

And I also believe there is a certain responsibility which we ALL must share in the giving and receiving of comments made to us. Sometimes, I think there are people who are just waiting to be offended. And they will look for anything and everything over which to be offended. "Chip on their shoulder" is the phrase which comes to mind. Then, of course, there are the whiners and those who are the victims....and there's ALways someone sayin' something 'wrong' to them.

I do my best to be sensitive with my own words, but I know I don't always succeed. It is our human condition, after all. If someone says things to me [repeatedly] that makes me go "hmmm....that was icky", I have no problem just stepping back from that person with no hard feelings......I have found that that works best for me. I know we can't know what that person may be going through at any given moment. And while that's all well and good, I have the responsibility to ME to not be someone else's doormat.


SuperFemme 12-21-2009 06:55 PM

First off, I want to tell Woodie that there is absolutely no need to leave the thread. You are invaluable and not going to get banned or flamed for speaking your mind.

I am not/was not offended. Perhaps my feeler were hurt but not necessarily by you Woodie. It just floored me that you think if we both had a seizure in the same time and place the *I* for some reason would be assisted first. We have such big things in common. I'm not faring any better in the world of different-ability than you. I guess I couldn't understand why you would think so? If you're up to it can you please tell me WHY you have this impression?

I would also like to point out to you gently that lots of people care about you. This community seems to wrap their arms around you in love and compassion. I'd like to hold a mirror up to you so that you could see how much you are cared about.

So please. Don't go away. Let's talk about this, it could be very enlightening and I for one am open to learning.

hugs,

SuperFemme :superman:

MsDemeanor 12-21-2009 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diva (Post 24144)
And I also believe there is a certain responsibility which we ALL must share in the giving and receiving of comments made to us. Sometimes, I think there are people who are just waiting to be offended. And they will look for anything and everything over which to be offended. "Chip on their shoulder" is the phrase which comes to mind. Then, of course, there are the whiners and those who are the victims....and there's ALways someone sayin' something 'wrong' to them.

For me, this is a part of the problem. Sadly, it takes watching the behavior repeat before one can readily identify the victims, whiners, and chipsters; you can't always see it right away, so you end up thinking that you've wronged someone when the reality is that you're dealing with someone who jumps at the opportunity to act/be hurt or offended. It makes me quite happy that no one can hear me snort or see my eyes roll when I'm in front of my computer.

Diva 12-21-2009 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor (Post 24179)
For me, this is a part of the problem. Sadly, it takes watching the behavior repeat before one can readily identify the victims, whiners, and chipsters; you can't always see it right away, so you end up thinking that you've wronged someone when the reality is that you're dealing with someone who jumps at the opportunity to act/be hurt or offended. It makes me quite happy that no one can hear me snort or see my eyes roll when I'm in front of my computer.


Totally get THIS! And it IS sad that it takes a while to figure that out. And just as sad, I think, is that it might not even be evident to THEM until one day, that person's gonna look around them and say to themselves, "Hey! Where'd everybody go?!?!" and what they will hear back is the echo in the room.


Gemme 12-21-2009 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme (Post 24063)
I think this is a great lesson in SELF perception. Because I have had many seizures in public Woodie. Hmm. Let me give you a few examples. One time I had a doozie of a seizure in the supermarket. When I came to the store security was pointing a gun at me.

Two other times I went from having a seizure to nobody helping, calling for help and tried to walk myself home. These two times I was arrested for *drunk in public* despite having a letter from my Neurosurgeon and a seizure card and medic alert bracelet. I blew 0.0 on the breathalyzer and then had forced blood tests. I sat in jail for over eight hours until the results came back. Without apology.

I flew to NM with my family who had decided my head injury was me being dramatic. We got off the shuttle at the car rental place and again I had a doozie. My own fucking family stepped right over me and left me laying on the cement in 102 degree weather. The shuttle driver turned me on my side and talked gently to me. He had a son with epilepsy.

In Vegas in 06 I had a seizure during the Ball at the Bash. Do you remember that? Because everybody walked right by me, and when I was taken to the ladies room by a dear friend? Bash attendee's were coming in and rolling their eyes.

The only place I experienced compassion was in my brain injury school. We all looked out for each other and had a plan of action. The teachers knew my quirks and could tell when I was going to seize. They kept a pillow and blanket in the cupboard and always made sure I didn't get hurt and that I came to in a soft, quiet and safe environment. We all did that for each other because it is kind of like a special club we are in, where only we can truly know...

So the assumption that I get some kind of pretty privilege is hurtful. At the end of the day we are the same. We have these seizures and it scares the bystanders because it is in the realm of the unknown for them. It usually traumatizes them, and then us because we hear the nasty/ignorant comments as we are trying to find our way back to our bodies.

Regardless of the bad experiences I am NOT a victim. I am a fucking MIRACLE and if one person learns something and changes their perspective after witnessing my seizure, then perhaps they will pass it on and the torch of empathy, compassion, and love will burn a little brighter. You are a miracle to Woodie. Not a victim.

I have to say that you hurt my feelings, but only for a second. Because I'm not giving them away. :byebye:

I want names, missy. Names and locations and I'll go open up a :canoworms: ("worms" = whoopass, btw) on those people. The same for Andrew.

That kind of behavior is absolutely reprehensible in my mind. Absolutely. There's no excuse for it.

Having said that, I am most definitely NOT what might be called a "pc" person. I say a LOT of things that I've begun to reevaluate and tweak since this thread started.

There is a stark difference between saying something that may or may be offensive and walking away from someone in a medical emergency situation, though. That is something I could never do.

*shakes head*

Darth Denkay 12-25-2009 05:43 PM

Arwen makes a really important point here. If I am offended by what someone posts, it is my responsibility to let that be known, and again as Arwen said, in a frank and gentle way. I think that the individual should explain what is offensive about the word/phrase as well. While I am certain that at times folks make comments that they know will be offensive but do so anyway, in the majority of the cases (I hope) the person doesn't realize that it might be taken offensively. The intention is not to be offensive, but yeah, we're all going to say stuff not realizing how it is taken by some. I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt - if something is said that bothers me I'll point it out while assuming that no ill will was intended. In this way, my point is made respectfully, no accusations thrown, and we can get on with whatever discussion was going on to begin with.

[quote=Arwen;23636]

The person who is offended needs to have the courage to say something to the person who said the offending term. As has been pointed out by many of us, we do not always know when a word is offensive. So being told in a frank and gentle way is important.[QUOTE]

Slippery slope indeed. You mention various areas where censorship has been used/abused: art, film, books, music. I'm going to offer a thought, wondering if it is a useful distinction to make. The mediums you mention, as artistic expressions, are things that we generally have a choice in whether or not we view them. If we don't like a movie or book, we don't bother with them, and this affects no one except ourselves. When art is displayed, books written, music played, the intended audience is some population full of folks the artist doesn't know. SUre, some people might be offended, but this is a case where that is entirely unavoidable. Specific example - I find Howard Sterns absolutely completely offensive. I choose not to listen to him. But my being offended is nothing directed personally at me. No relationship between us, nothing personal.

To my mind this is a very different scenario than art offered to the public in general. We are a group of folks involved in dialogues between specific people. Some of us know each other in real-time, some don't but know folks well in online terms - there are relationships involved here. Real people, real names. Real feelings. I think it is different here, there should be attempts to not offend because, well, we're a community. Mistakes will be made, of course. Disagreements are going to happen. But if we try to communicate respectfully, seems as though our discussions should generally go reasonably smoothly.

Thoughts? Fair distinction?




Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn (Post 23880)
I struggle with this issue..

It feels like such a slippery slope to me...


On one hand I think that we as a society can become too *polite* too careful.. We want to make sure that no one is offended...

But someone is going to be offended by something.. Period..

Where does it end?

Art?
Film?
Music?
Books?

People have both fought for and against the right to censor these things..

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Dragonfly 01-10-2010 03:30 PM

the word whiner
 
I think that the word "whiner" can have a BIG negative result. I see when things are said about people in general "being like that" and how they are making a big To-Do about being a victim... it is harmful to the whole community. If the people you are representing when you use that word "whiner" are unable to recognize they are one, what good does it do for it to be said publically in the community forums?

What happens is a silencing in general, of people that you are probably not even talking about. No one wants to reach out for support and love if they worry that someone will label them a whiner. Psychologically speaking, a "whiner" has real feelings and are misunderstanding because they have been encouraged to feel free on these sites to be themself, share, and find acceptance and support here. Maybe they have no one to listen to them in the real world and I think the eye rolls can be "felt" if not seen.

Sometimes people are just uncomfortable and need to judge or be cold about that "whiner" person because they are just too tired to be a shoulder to another someone else. Some people may think if positive is the only type conversation then it will be a fun and pleasantly smiley place to be. But I saw that movie pleasantville. It wasn't real at all.... and it was NOT pleasant.

Dragonfly 01-13-2010 05:25 AM

Bumping My Post
 
Just because this was how I wanted to say it and I took myself to the red zone afterwards to make an angry rant. I regret that didn't help anything and was selfish of me. I was mad. And sad about what I was hearing/seeing. No excuse though. I still stand by what I said here.

friskyfemme 06-12-2010 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfyOne (Post 22618)
Great topic Medusa. I'm not usually one to use words that hurt others intentionally and rarely swear unless quite angry and provoked at that time. I wasn't raised around it and think there is little use for those words. I will say there is one word that will get me riled up in a heart beat and I will go off on the person that uses it around me. That word would be cunt and writing it here doesn't make me feel good, but if I didn't, you wouldn't know the word.

This word brings me to rage! I have a bad history related to hearing it and being called this word in a debilitating time of my life.

friskyfemme 06-12-2010 11:48 AM

Okay here is my 'offended by words' list.
(any word that slangs race, geographic orgin, religious belief or intellectual level / capacity, physical or mental disorders), asshole, bastard, bitch, cunt, fuck(er,'MF'), slut,
whore.

These are words heard/read recently. Most within this site. If you are willing to be educated and wish to be respectful take heed of what others feel/perceive as hurtful/offensive.

friskyfemme 06-12-2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob (Post 22394)
Not to make light of your condition, Just_G, but this is a good example of why it's impossible to speak in such a way that no one will ever be offended. Or, to use a more personal example, several years ago I was diagnosed with ADD. It annoys the living crap out of me (no offense to sentient crap intended) when people make silly remarks about ADD, about 'ooh, bright shiny' etc. They've got some sound-bite knowledge about it (ergo, none), and have no idea what the real experience of ADD is like (frequently, quite difficult and painful.) Be that as it may, it's an annoyance, not something that offends me. Because, after all, you can't LOOK at me at tell that I have it.

Using words that are clearly derogatory and directed at body parts, skin color, (obvious) mental handicaps and the like are used way too often by a lot of people who should know better. My theory? We're lazy and as a culture have become coarsened to certain types of language. (I'm so sick of hearing the word fuck and its derivatives used as a noun, verb, adjective, and gerund I could fuckin cut a bitch.) In Medusa's example of using 'pussy/bitch' around her femme friends and that being okay is no more so than blacks referring to themselves as niggas. The argument (which Medusa didn't make, I hasten to add) that it's somehow empowering, I think, is bullshit. I think it subconsciously reinforces negative stereotypes even within the groups that are 'taking back' the word(s) at issue.

I got off track here and can't find the rails. Nevermind. :)

Thanks Bob. (Not identifying you as this type of person).
I hear you that most of the time, people offend others with words out of ignorance. I use the word 'ignorance' as a lack of an understanding/awareness of misspeaks. We all grew up in our own community's rules, morals, language, and communication in which being apart of location, place in time, and in that social network , we knew exactly what was meant/intended by others' around us. But...PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE!!!!!

Get a clue! If someone says they are offended by what I/You said, believe it! Apologize(unless it was intended, then shame on me/you, and shut up!). Use in the same forum 'public/private' they identified the offense. If you can't act as a responsible person, go away!

Nat 06-12-2010 01:35 PM

I did have a guy ask me not to use the word "bastard" because he was born without a dad and that word hurt him every single time he heard it. I managed to never use the word around him, but occasionally it still slips out. But then I think of him and regret saying it.

Words can hurt and I am more and more aware of that the older I get. I try to be respectful.

AtLast 06-12-2010 04:08 PM

[QUOTE=June;128651]Frisky. You just took away most of my vocabulary. Can you explain why asshole, fucker, bitch, cunt are problematic to you?

I get Bastard, (I still use it for special folks in my life) because of the origins of the word. Technically, my son is one because he was born out of wedlock 8^O however, when I used it, it has no reflection on the original meaning.

We have the capabilities with this software to make **** appear when people type certain words, but I wonder if that would be taking censorship too far?

For me, context means a lot:


QUOTE]



I find cunt extremely offensive, personally. Then, again, I don't much like any slang for female or male reproductive/sexual body parts. Just don't. On a website, however, I expect to see them used and I wouldn't react to usage overall, unless used to directly cut a person down (any person) or in a sexist manner. CONTEXT really does say a lot!!

I don't use foul language much in real-time. Just don't and I don't really have any kind of reason for this. Sure, If I whack a thumb with a hammer, f-u-c-k does come out of my mouth.

I also know that in my background, there was an unwritten code not to sound like the daughter of an uneducated immigrant garbage man... because that is what people expected of us.

Guess, I just try to understand what someone else migfht be feeling about certain terms and not use them here if they let me know it is offensive to them.

The key word for me in the title of the thread is flippant.... sometimes flippant gets old.

Nat 06-12-2010 04:11 PM

I curse like a sailor and I think part of that for me is the feeling of liberation from the good girl mold I still feel pressured to fit into.

But I think I'm gonna give up the foul language.

As I grow older, I am realizing that (for me) there is a correlation between respectful behavior and self-respect.

AtLast 06-12-2010 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blush (Post 22399)
"wife-beater" instead of tank top

Yeah, I've used this term, but I'm really trying to get it out of my vocabulary.


I really don't like this either. My oldest sister was with a wife-beating, cheating, alcoholic husband for 14 years and there is just not one redeeming quality about its usage to me. She left him, raised her kids (did not get one penny of child support and worked to provide for them even after remarriage, put all 3 through college/vocational school) and did remarry a great guy that loves and respects her and her kids.

Besides, some peeps look great in them and I just can't put that identification on them! My son has a great body and is a good man, husband and father. He (like most people) do not deserve to be having what they have on put in this context. Many peeps here do not deserve this, either!

friskyfemme 06-12-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June (Post 128651)
Frisky. You just took away most of my vocabulary. Can you explain why asshole, fucker, bitch, cunt are problematic to you?

I get Bastard, (I still use it for special folks in my life) because of the origins of the word. Technically, my son is one because he was born out of wedlock 8^O however, when I used it, it has no reflection on the original meaning.

We have the capabilities with this software to make **** appear when people type certain words, but I wonder if that would be taking censorship too far?

For me, context means a lot:

That X, she's a real cunt <--- Bad
My cunt itches <--- Vulgar, but not offensive (for me)

I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this :)

Ok, Here goes! Let me preface my response by saying all of these words have been directed toward me and my siblings in childhood by my father. Let's just say they weren't words of endearment. However, I have conditioned myself not to assume it is an intentional slur unless I have said so. I let others fight their own battles. But, I think awareness and intention are the keys for any social exchange. As in any situation, majority rules and the minority 'suck it up'. Determining which is which is the key! :)

friskyfemme 06-12-2010 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat (Post 128779)
I curse like a sailor and I think part of that for me is the feeling of liberation from the good girl mold I still feel pressured to fit into.

But I think I'm gonna give up the foul language.

As I grow older, I am realizing that (for me) there is a correlation between respectful behavior and self-respect.

I agree with you, Nat. I actually used most of the words I listed I find offensive before I became a mom over 40 yrs ago. It was somehow liberating and empowering for me too.

However, I finally realized, I was judged by how I expressed myself. I didn't want to pass that on to my kids. My own mom's strongest cuss words are 'shit and hell'. If she was that mad we knew to 'straighten up'.

Thanks for sharing.

Nat 06-12-2010 05:21 PM

I'm also trying to become more aware of my own able-ist language (metaphorical uses of blindness, hearing, standing, etc), and I'm trying separate/balance my moral and spiritual ideas from the concepts of light and dark because I think the correlation of lightness and whiteness with goodness and the correlation of darkness and blackness with evil or badness contribute (to some extent) to unconsciously perpetuated racism.

It's hard because both of these tendencies are built on a lifetime of interrelated, built-upon thoughts which are very much culturally re-enforced.

friskyfemme 06-12-2010 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June (Post 128877)
I do think it is fair to say that the "Majority Rules" when it comes to language on a site like this. For instance, if I was participating in a Theological site, or one geared towards parents or the participants were there primarily for support for illness, etc., I would think that we would all participate in a much different way. For me, when I am participating on this site, I often think of us as sitting at my table, and in real life, I am sometimes profane and even, vulgar. I do not however, think it's okay to use them against someone as a slur, here.

Hugs June,

The moderators and the members on this site do a good job of keeping things in check.
It is difficult sometimes to determine who is the majority because the one that is most vocal is often thought of as speaking for the majority if no one challenges them. If something is distasteful, hurtful, or a slur to someone, that person may not feel comfortable speaking up. So it goes.

MsDemeanor 06-12-2010 11:06 PM

I've developed a fondness for "asshat", which I often spell as "a$$hat" to bypass the profanity filters on some sites.

*wonders if a$$hat is offensive to milliners*

Gemme 06-16-2010 06:51 PM

I feel comfortable expressing myself in this medium as I see fit. As a result of that level of comfort, I often use profanity. Would I use that same profanity in the company of someone's grandmother? Um, no. Would I curse more if I were in the company of a bunch of sailors? No. If I were in a person's living room and I knew that s/he hated or had issues with a particular curse word, I would do my very best to avoid saying it. In someone else's world, I adapt. When someone is in my environment, I expect them to adapt to my preferences. If they can't, and it bothers me that much, then I am perfectly able and willing to show them the door.

In this medium, we're such a lovely mishmash of identities, genders, creeds, etc that it's like blending something in the blender. You have all of what you put into it, but the final result is something different, in all aspects. We all have to have a level of tolerance and acceptance when we log on here because some days we are the cursers and some days we are the squeaky cleans and those days can flip flop mighty quick.


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