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Martina 01-06-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheatToast (Post 1237424)
I want to put the Bernie thread to rest.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...rs-stein-trump

To me, he joined the race to siphon votes from Hillary, and then to pocket tons of campaign contributions.
He's been up the Russian's ass since the 70's.

What do you mean up the Russians' ass? Do you have any evidence for collusion? And the idea that Bernie Sanders, of all people, is guilty of pocketing campaign funds is ludicrous. Evidence? Where on Earth do you get the idea that Sanders, a lifelong public servant whose record is as transparent as they come, ran with the intent to defeat Hillary so Trump could win, which you imply. This is laughable. And what do you mean you want to put the Bernie thread to rest? Is there a Bernie thread?

Of course the Russians encouraged third party votes. They wanted Trump. Does that mean that Stein or Bernie had any knowledge of it? It's straight out of conspiracy theory news and Trump-level despicable and irresponsible to assert such things without evidence. I said in 2016 that some of the tactics of Hillary supporters made the Republicans look like lightweights. This is that level of insanity.

homoe 01-06-2019 10:24 AM

..


......:goodpost:......

dark_crystal 01-06-2019 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kätzchen (Post 1237453)
It's late tonight but I think WheatToast's question is important: "Why Bernie?"

I admit I fell for his platform, back in 2016, and I thought he'd make a good president. But then WheatToast posted that article from VOX about Stein and Sanders also having Russian influence in their campaigns (?). That is the first time I've read about it and that article was published back in February of 2018 -- nearly a year ago.

In some ways, now, I often wonder if I didn't set the bar high enough, you know? I don't know that I could get behind a Bernie Sander's nomination again. Sure, he's got a track record that shows what he has accomplished in the US Senate, but does it make him the right person for the most important job in the world?

In the past, I am embarrassed to admit that I had to like a person, in order to feel comfortable to vote for them. But this past election made me see that it's not about the person as much as it is about their platform, their ability to lead and their ability to carry out a vision, a vison that people of every stripe and flavor can get behind and support. Which hopefully brings us to a better place in life, right?



I know dark_crystal posted about how overwhelming it was to see Beto-nirvana over the course of last year, but as appealing to others as Beto seems, I don't know if he's got what it takes to fill the bill as an US President. I don't know much about Beto O'Rourke, though, so I found d_c's point of view intriguing and very interesting take on O'Rourke.

I'm with Martina though, when it comes down to Warren or Biden. I'd choose Warren over Biden, as well.


I appreciate this thread and reading everyone's point of view and things that come to mind. It helps me to put things in perspective about the upcoming 20/20 election.

There has never been any suggestion that Bernie colluded with the Russians. The article says the Russians helped him but they were doing that to help Trump

The indictment said that the Russians pushed the idea of a third-party or write-in protest vote to hurt Clinton.

It did not help Bernie, in fact it hurt him because he is now strongly associated with the #BernieOrBust movement, despite endorsing Clinton and asking his supporters to give her their votes.

Even Noam Chomsky was begging people not to fall for it.

And now it is just the gift that keeps on giving.

charley 01-06-2019 11:24 AM

Bernie Sanders
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina (Post 1237470)
What do you mean up the Russians' ass? Do you have any evidence for collusion? And the idea that Bernie Sanders, of all people, is guilty of pocketing campaign funds is ludicrous. Evidence? Where on Earth do you get the idea that Sanders, a lifelong public servant whose record is as transparent as they come, ran with the intent to defeat Hillary so Trump could win, which you imply. This is laughable. And what do you mean you want to put the Bernie thread to rest? Is there a Bernie thread?

Of course the Russians encouraged third party votes. They wanted Trump. Does that mean that Stein or Bernie had any knowledge of it? It's straight out of conspiracy theory news and Trump-level despicable and irresponsible to assert such things without evidence. I said in 2016 that some of the tactics of Hillary supporters made the Republicans look like lightweights. This is that level of insanity.

Right on, Martina, nothing more than a dreadful example of fake news. The only one up anyone's ass would be Putin up Trump's. I really didn't understand why anyone would post that link from Vox (which was nothing more than innuendo), without any corroboration from multiple credible sources. Vox is noted for being a site that does not necessarily publish facts, but has a reputation for only encouraging opinions about certain facts.

kittygrrl 01-06-2019 01:12 PM

I detest any reference to "fake news" on our side. This is a term Trump uses often and why would we want to borrow any of his crap? I think we can express ourselves without resorting to using his kind of propaganda.

charley 01-06-2019 03:09 PM

Fake News: An Origin Story
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kittygrrl (Post 1237491)
I detest any reference to "fake news" on our side. This is a term Trump uses often and why would we want to borrow any of his crap? I think we can express ourselves without resorting to using his kind of propaganda.

""Fake news" is a phrase that may seem specific to our particular moment and time in American history."

"But Columbia University Professor Andie Tucher says fake news is deeply rooted in American journalism."

"The first newspaper published in North America got shut down in 1690 after printing fabricated information...."

https://www.npr.org/tags/502124007/fake-news

Fakes news is spread worldwide... Propaganda has existed in all political circles where dictators rule. One can give it other names, use euphemisms, but it's all lies.

Personally, I have tried to talk with some Philippines here, who absolutely believe all that they read in "social media" in the Philippines, suggesting how wonderful Duterte is, despite an overall pov in those who can read between the lines that he is a dictator.

I can cite many examples that are worldwide. So, I see no reason whatsoever not to use such an expression, because everything that comes out of Trump's mouth is "fake news", and that is because he is a "fake".

kittygrrl 01-06-2019 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charley (Post 1237498)
""Fake news" is a phrase that may seem specific to our particular moment and time in American history."

"But Columbia University Professor Andie Tucher says fake news is deeply rooted in American journalism."

"The first newspaper published in North America got shut down in 1690 after printing fabricated information...."

https://www.npr.org/tags/502124007/fake-news

Fakes news is spread worldwide... Propaganda has existed in all political circles where dictators rule. One can give it other names, use euphemisms, but it's all lies.

Personally, I have tried to talk with some Philippines here, who absolutely believe all that they read in "social media" in the Philippines, suggesting how wonderful Duterte is, despite an overall pov in those who can read between the lines that he is a dictator.

I can cite many examples that are worldwide. So, I see no reason whatsoever not to use such an expression, because everything that comes out of Trump's mouth is "fake news", and that is because he is a "fake".

Notwithstanding your effort to promote it's usage as acceptable. it was popularized by Trump every time he heard something from the free press that was the truth , he would insist it was "fake news" to deflect. Knowing that why would you want to promote your ideas by using his propaganda method? It's not logical. He's polluted the term, as he has many things, so associating any rational argument using his methods doesn't help the reader to sympathize with your opinion or argument, just the opposite. But it's a free country and my opinion is just one opinion. There are some good ideas here but i find some of the ways it is expressed rude and coarse. That's a shame.

WheatToast 01-06-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kätzchen (Post 1237453)
It's late tonight but I think WheatToast's question is important: "Why Bernie?"

I admit I fell for his platform, back in 2016, and I thought he'd make a good president. But then WheatToast posted that article from VOX about Stein and Sanders also having Russian influence in their campaigns (?). That is the first time I've read about it and that article was published back in February of 2018 -- nearly a year ago.

In some ways, now, I often wonder if I didn't set the bar high enough, you know? I don't know that I could get behind a Bernie Sander's nomination again. Sure, he's got a track record that shows what he has accomplished in the US Senate, but does it make him the right person for the most important job in the world?

In the past, I am embarrassed to admit that I had to like a person, in order to feel comfortable to vote for them. But this past election made me see that it's not about the person as much as it is about their platform, their ability to lead and their ability to carry out a vision, a vison that people of every stripe and flavor can get behind and support. Which hopefully brings us to a better place in life, right?



I know dark_crystal posted about how overwhelming it was to see Beto-nirvana over the course of last year, but as appealing to others as Beto seems, I don't know if he's got what it takes to fill the bill as an US President. I don't know much about Beto O'Rourke, though, so I found d_c's point of view intriguing and very interesting take on O'Rourke.

I'm with Martina though, when it comes down to Warren or Biden. I'd choose Warren over Biden, as well.


I appreciate this thread and reading everyone's point of view and things that come to mind. It helps me to put things in perspective about the upcoming 20/20 election.

I could write a volume about why Bernie is unsuited, but I doubt he'll be an issue in 2020.
I think it's too early to start stressing over which Democrat to back in the 2020 POTUS election, but so far I like Castro, Beto and Harris.

WheatToast 01-06-2019 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina (Post 1237470)
What do you mean up the Russians' ass? Do you have any evidence for collusion? And the idea that Bernie Sanders, of all people, is guilty of pocketing campaign funds is ludicrous. Evidence? Where on Earth do you get the idea that Sanders, a lifelong public servant whose record is as transparent as they come, ran with the intent to defeat Hillary so Trump could win, which you imply. This is laughable. And what do you mean you want to put the Bernie thread to rest? Is there a Bernie thread?

Of course the Russians encouraged third party votes. They wanted Trump. Does that mean that Stein or Bernie had any knowledge of it? It's straight out of conspiracy theory news and Trump-level despicable and irresponsible to assert such things without evidence. I said in 2016 that some of the tactics of Hillary supporters made the Republicans look like lightweights. This is that level of insanity.

If you cannot be bothered to catch up on legitimate news sources, please do not expect others to brief you. Of course I have proof of all my allegations; why make claims that can be proven false?
Bernie's a bum. (w)

WheatToast 01-06-2019 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_crystal (Post 1234194)
Both Castros will be on Colbert this Thursday

The Castro twins have great political pedigrees--Stanford undergrad and Harvard law are excellent training grounds for public service careers, plus their mother Rosie Castro co-founded the left wing liberal party "La Raza Unida."
Politics and public service have been central to them all their lives.
On the down side, they're both sort of stiff and without the charisma of Beto or Biden. But they both have been scandal free forever.
These days, politics seems to have such a heavy element of reality TV and show biz, candidates are often discounted for lacking the pizzazz we demand in entertainment.
I think many of us have forgotten that we needn't expect to be entertained by politicians--that is not their job.
I think one good way (that's more egalitarian) in selecting a candidate to support is to list your own values and line them up with platforms the candidates espouse.

For instance, I believe in gun control, global warming, health insurance like the ACA, a balanced budget, and a lock put on our Social Security and Medicare funds so the GOP can't raid them anymore.
And we need a sensible, compassionate immigration program that creates more win/win possibilities than the opposite. And of course GBLTQ rights.

WheatToast 01-06-2019 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittygrrl (Post 1236759)
Free College is a nice idea but unless we get a Democrat in the White House, win 61 seats in the Senate and sweep the House, not very likely..and forget Medicare for all..our country isn't ready for that much social change yet. Besides, Medicare is almost broke, Social Security without fixes will be in deep trouble by the mid 2020's. And we are looking at a 23-25 trillion dollar deficit in 2021. I'm not saying these things won't ever be possible but probably not in my lifetime or for those over 30. I wish these things were already in place but society (as a whole) isn't ready. Currently we have too much debt, baby boomer political power will have to be neutralized and societal norms have to change drastically before these things can be a possibility :tea:


Medicare and Social Security are not broke, not even close. If the GOP simply stops trying to raid both piggy banks to divert funds in order to further their agenda, we be cool.

WheatToast 01-06-2019 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charley (Post 1237487)
Right on, Martina, nothing more than a dreadful example of fake news. The only one up anyone's ass would be Putin up Trump's. I really didn't understand why anyone would post that link from Vox (which was nothing more than innuendo), without any corroboration from multiple credible sources. Vox is noted for being a site that does not necessarily publish facts, but has a reputation for only encouraging opinions about certain facts.

Vox.com is run by Ezra Klein, a former Washington Post reporter. As many would assert, the Washington Post is as reliable an American media outlet as there ever was, so it follows their reporters have incredibly high standards.
Vox is both a news and opinion outlet, but to challenge their veracity is generally a past-time the right wing enjoys. Erza Klein is not known by any credible critics as a lying jackass. He is a reliable liberal/progressive voice.
Learning to vet sources may be the voter's best friend this time around.

charley 01-06-2019 06:47 PM

Fake News
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kittygrrl (Post 1237500)
Notwithstanding your effort to promote it's usage as acceptable. it was popularized by Trump every time he heard something from the free press that was the truth , he would insist it was "fake news" to deflect. Knowing that why would you want to promote your ideas by using his propaganda method? It's not logical. He's polluted the term, as he has many things, so associating any rational argument using his methods doesn't help the reader to sympathize with your opinion or argument, just the opposite. But it's a free country and my opinion is just one opinion. There are some good ideas here but i find some of the ways it is expressed rude and coarse. That's a shame.

from Time Magazine:

"The scourge of “fake news” and its many cousins–from clickbait to “deep fakes” (realistic-looking videos showing events that never happened)–have experts fearful for the future of democracy." - Katy Steinmetz

http://time.com/5362183/the-real-fake-news-crisis/

"Fake news websites (also referred to as hoax news websites) are Internet websites that deliberately publish fake news—hoaxes, propaganda, and disinformation purporting to be real news—often using social media to drive web traffic and amplify their effect."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_website

I used the term correctly, which others have also used - and correctly so. And I did not misappropriate the term. I have watched news reports from other countries (I live outside the U.S. and have access to other journalists who use that term correctly.) Just because someone misuses those words does not invalidate their true meaning, and I am not responsible for anothers' misuse of words.

The only issue was proof of Bernie Sanders alleged misdeeds, of which there are none; because, if there were, Mueller would be investigating, and Republicans in the Senate and the POTUS would be calling for him to go to jail, which they are not doing.

An ad hominem attack is an attack on the person usually in the form of an insult, not for the content of what that person stands for.

"Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."

And, the topic of hand was "Bernie Sanders"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

As such, any proposed argument dismissing the use of the term "fake news" just because someone else has misused the term is utterly fallacious and ridiculous and misleading, because it failed miserably to address the fact that someone made false allegations about someone else.

kittygrrl 01-06-2019 07:11 PM

charley i wasn't trying to insult you, but your argument and expression doesn't move me nor is your current explanation polite however, considering the combative nature of this thread in general (except for a few) and the passionate argument without careful consideration of opposing views, it's not a mystery why people in general would not want to wander in here for fear of being slaughtered. Do enjoy.

WheatToast 01-06-2019 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittygrrl (Post 1237520)
charley i wasn't trying to insult you, but your argument and expression doesn't move me nor is your current explanation polite however, considering the combative nature of this thread in general (except for a few) and the passionate argument without careful consideration of opposing views, it's not a mystery why people in general would not want to wander in here for fear of being slaughtered. Do enjoy.

Basically, don't we all want to to see Trump ousted in favor of a president who actually cares about Americans of all stripes?
I believe so,
IMHO, I love Hillary, but that doesn't give me the right to excoriate anyone who can't stand her.
Conversely, I don't like Bernie Sanders (though I used to) but I don't think that should be a ticket for anyone to play pin the tail on the donkey on my ass--which, unlike Bernie, is all Democrat.
If we could agree not to get personal with each other in a hostile way, wouldn't that beat what we may have brewing here?
I stand for the first amendment in all things, including political discussions. :|

kittygrrl 01-06-2019 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheatToast (Post 1237533)
Basically, don't we all want to to see Trump ousted in favor of a president who actually cares about Americans of all stripes?
I believe so,
IMHO, I love Hillary, but that doesn't give me the right to excoriate anyone who can't stand her.
Conversely, I don't like Bernie Sanders (though I used to) but I don't think that should be a ticket for anyone to play pin the tail on the donkey on my ass--which, unlike Bernie, is all Democrat.
If we could agree not to get personal with each other in a hostile way, wouldn't that beat what we may have brewing here?
I stand for the first amendment in all things, including political discussions. :|

Agreed, very reasonable:hangloose:

WheatToast 01-06-2019 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly (Post 1234020)
I watched Senator Amy Klobuchar on “The Rachael Maddow show” recently; she is considering a campaign, and figures that the field of likely candidates will be more than 20 to start.

I’m with Martina on how outstanding a President Kamala Harris would make; she is strong and confident and knows the law. She was an excellent AG for California and would be someone I would have faith in to run this country. Hillary Clinton? Fuck Hillary Clinton and the horse she road in on. She was unable to win before because she’s an arrogant white elitist, with no concept of what middle America (or real people) cares about.

Bernie? You know, I STILL think Bernie is a great Senator, but I don’t think he is President material. In any case, (and it shows my prejudice) NO MORE OLD WHITE MEN!!! :praying:

Hillary beat Trump by more than 3 million popular votes, so I guess she was able to win in spite of whatever negative propaganda (or truth) is out there.
This thread begs the topic--if every qualified Democratic candidate is so hated by a segment of people because they don't fulfill their personal desires, that opens the door for some bland scrub nobody likes to sneak in via a consensus of every other candidate being hated by voters.
I think we should simplify, and let's stop adapting rhetoric from GOP assclowns who hate all Democrats and make no efforts to legitimatize their insults with facts.

By example, look no further than Nancy Pelosi. So many GOP used her as a prop to represent all that's horrible in politics, a lot of Democratic men fell for it and also starting saying she was crazy, etc.
But on the day she was sworn in as House Majority Leader, it was clear to see that all the shit piled on her was due to fear, jealousy and misogyny.

When I see lesbians talk shit about any Democratic female candidate, it's painful, especially when the woman in question is well qualified to represent most of our interests.

P.S. If I was married to Bill and he screwed Lewinsky, and people wanted me to say something PC about her, my line would be, "Fuck her." Hillary should be allowed to have her own feelings about this mess without having to pretend that Monica had no role whatsoever and should be considered an innocent victim. For the record, I like Lewinsky and considered her a young, naive fool who fell for the charms of a powerful old lecher. But then I would have divorced him when Hillary opted to stay. That made the whole thing a personal matter between those three, and who am I to condemn any of them?

I say we refuse to give the GOP talking points for more of their hatred. Yes?

MsTinkerbelly 01-07-2019 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheatToast (Post 1237537)
Hillary beat Trump by more than 3 million popular votes, so I guess she was able to win in spite of whatever negative propaganda (or truth) is out there.
This thread begs the topic--if every qualified Democratic candidate is so hated by a segment of people because they don't fulfill their personal desires, that opens the door for some bland scrub nobody likes to sneak in via a consensus of every other candidate being hated by voters.
I think we should simplify, and let's stop adapting rhetoric from GOP assclowns who hate all Democrats and make no efforts to legitimatize their insults with facts.

By example, look no further than Nancy Pelosi. So many GOP used her as a prop to represent all that's horrible in politics, a lot of Democratic men fell for it and also starting saying she was crazy, etc.
But on the day she was sworn in as House Majority Leader, it was clear to see that all the shit piled on her was due to fear, jealousy and misogyny.

When I see lesbians talk shit about any Democratic female candidate, it's painful, especially when the woman in question is well qualified to represent most of our interests.

P.S. If I was married to Bill and he screwed Lewinsky, and people wanted me to say something PC about her, my line would be, "Fuck her." Hillary should be allowed to have her own feelings about this mess without having to pretend that Monica had no role whatsoever and should be considered an innocent victim. For the record, I like Lewinsky and considered her a young, naive fool who fell for the charms of a powerful old lecher. But then I would have divorced him when Hillary opted to stay. That made the whole thing a personal matter between those three, and who am I to condemn any of them?

I say we refuse to give the GOP talking points for more of their hatred. Yes?

I think everyone is allowed an opinion here, whether you feel they are right or wrong. If you go about pulling everyone’s posts apart, you will have no one interested in interacting with you. You may not care about that, but i have seen people much like you wanting to stir the pot, and I will not engage.

Please do not address me in any way...no questions...no comments...no reps...no nasty rep notes...no private messages . DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE my existence in any way.

I will extend to you the same courtesy.

kittygrrl 01-07-2019 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheatToast (Post 1237537)
Hillary beat Trump by more than 3 million popular votes, so I guess she was able to win in spite of whatever negative propaganda (or truth) is out there.
This thread begs the topic--if every qualified Democratic candidate is so hated by a segment of people because they don't fulfill their personal desires, that opens the door for some bland scrub nobody likes to sneak in via a consensus of every other candidate being hated by voters.
I think we should simplify, and let's stop adapting rhetoric from GOP assclowns who hate all Democrats and make no efforts to legitimatize their insults with facts.

By example, look no further than Nancy Pelosi. So many GOP used her as a prop to represent all that's horrible in politics, a lot of Democratic men fell for it and also starting saying she was crazy, etc.
But on the day she was sworn in as House Majority Leader, it was clear to see that all the shit piled on her was due to fear, jealousy and misogyny.

When I see lesbians talk shit about any Democratic female candidate, it's painful, especially when the woman in question is well qualified to represent most of our interests.

P.S. If I was married to Bill and he screwed Lewinsky, and people wanted me to say something PC about her, my line would be, "Fuck her." Hillary should be allowed to have her own feelings about this mess without having to pretend that Monica had no role whatsoever and should be considered an innocent victim. For the record, I like Lewinsky and considered her a young, naive fool who fell for the charms of a powerful old lecher. But then I would have divorced him when Hillary opted to stay. That made the whole thing a personal matter between those three, and who am I to condemn any of them?

I say we refuse to give the GOP talking points for more of their hatred. Yes?

<<<enjoyed your post

i think GOP pollution(ie hatred, intolerance, evil) has crept into our consciousness and some of us have decided that since it's working for them, we had better adopt the same malignant zombie rhetoric only with our talking points. I'd like to believe we're better then that, but now i'm worried we're not. If we use their propaganda we can't claim higher ground. We're kidding ourselves, we are in the same cesspool and no better and maybe far worse because we know better but lower ourselves to wallow on their level.

At this point, i'm not in love with any of the tentative candidates that are out there. Meh....none are impressive. And any candidate that wants to play footsie with Russians is definitely out. You can't make a pet out of a rattlesnake.

WheatToast 01-07-2019 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittygrrl (Post 1237570)
<<<enjoyed your post

i think GOP pollution(ie hatred, intolerance, evil) has crept into our consciousness and some of us have decided that since it's working for them, we had better adopt the same malignant zombie rhetoric only with our talking points. I'd like to believe we're better then that, but now i'm worried we're not. If we use their propaganda we can't claim higher ground. We're kidding ourselves, we are in the same cesspool and no better and maybe far worse because we know better but lower ourselves to wallow on their level.

At this point, i'm not in love with any of the tentative candidates that are out there. Meh....none are impressive. And any candidate that wants to play footsie with Russians is definitely out. You can't make a pet out of a rattlesnake.

People have opinions they deserve to express--but when the premise is based on horseshit that is wholly inaccurate, shall we refrain from correcting the record lest we hurt someone's little feelers? We are entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Politics is a rough business and a rough topic.
Mollycoddling is for kids and old people. :|

kittygrrl 01-07-2019 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheatToast (Post 1237600)
People have opinions they deserve to express--but when the premise is based on horseshit that is wholly inaccurate, shall we refrain from correcting the record lest we hurt someone's little feelers? We are entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Politics is a rough business and a rough topic.
Mollycoddling is for kids and old people. :|

agreed we're not entitled to our own facts..nevertheless the infection is invading the democratic base..it's like the plague, it doesn't discriminate :(

C0LLETTE 01-07-2019 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheatToast (Post 1237600)
People have opinions they deserve to express--but when the premise is based on horseshit that is wholly inaccurate, shall we refrain from correcting the record lest we hurt someone's little feelers? We are entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Politics is a rough business and a rough topic.
Mollycoddling is for kids and old people. :|

What patronising muddled poppycock!

Am I to understand from this that you are tough and can handle the rough business/topic of politics while I, an old woman, am to be sidelined, mollycoddled and lumped in with kids? My "little feelers" are definitely hurt.

charley 01-08-2019 08:01 AM

American Politics
 
In rereading some of the above posts, I confess that I was so busy prior to retiring that I really hadn't been following in detail what was happening re: American politics; and, so when Trump won the election a few years ago, I was somewhat surprised, to say the least. However, life is a learning process, and since that surprise and rereading posts here, and being online and chatting (elsewhere), and even though participating here in this thread and others, I was not expecting to learn anything of import, but I have to say thanks everyone for your input. It wasn't what I had expected, but learning is always discovery. And, I now think I understand why Trump won his election.

:readfineprint:

Martina 01-09-2019 04:08 PM

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/eliza...m-progressives

I certainly prefer Bernie to Warren. These differences are very real, but what a relief it would be to have Warren over other more conservative Dems if Bernie doesn't run or does not fare well in the primaries.

dark_crystal 01-10-2019 08:50 PM

Harris announced today! I think she would be a good nominee. I was watching some videos of her and she’s very sharp

MsTinkerbelly 01-10-2019 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_crystal (Post 1237815)
Harris announced today! I think she would be a good nominee. I was watching some videos of her and she’s very sharp

I’m a big fan of Kamala Harris, both for her work as the AG of California, and as a Senator from California.

Things are getting exciting!

homoe 01-11-2019 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_crystal (Post 1237815)
Harris announced today! I think she would be a good nominee. I was watching some videos of her and she’s very sharp



I loved watching her grill some of those bastards who appeared before her and the committee on the hill especially Kavanaugh! She not only tough, she's also nobody's fool as well!

dark_crystal 01-11-2019 07:43 AM

Here is where Harris is going to have problems (i don't endorse this magazine, but wanted to show what will come out):

Kamala Harris’ New Book Tries to Massage Her Record as a Prosecutor, But the Facts Aren’t Pretty
As California Attorney General, Harris' office continued to display indifference toward concerns of misconduct. In March 2015, the California A.G. appealed the dismissal of a child molestation case after a Kern County prosecutor falsified an interview transcript to add an incriminating confession.

Harris' office, citing state court precedent, tried to argue that the prosecutor's action "was certainly conscience shocking in the sense that it involved false testimony by a prosecutor in a formal criminal proceeding. But it did not involve 'brutal and … offensive' conduct employed to obtain a conviction." In other words, the defendant's false confession wasn't beaten out of him, and therefore didn't violate his constitutional rights. The appeals court disagreed and threw out the conviction.

In another 2015 case, Baca v. Adams, Harris' office opposed a post-conviction appeal by a defendant who was sentenced after the prosecutor in his case lied to the jury about whether an informant received compensation for his testimony. A state court found the prosecutor's testimony was "sheer fantasy," but declined to overturn the conviction.

As attorney general of California, Harris challenged the release of a man who had been exonerated by the Innocence Project and had his conviction overturned. Harris argued that Daniel Larsen, who spent 13 years in prison for the crime of possessing a concealed knife, had not produced evidence of his innocence fast enough. A federal judge overturned his conviction after finding that Larsen had shown he was innocent, that the cops testifying at his trial weren't credible, and that his attorney, since disbarred, was constitutionally ineffective because he had failed to call any witnesses.

When the Supreme Court decided that California's overcrowded prisons represented cruel and unusual punishment, Attorney General Harris fought a ruling ordering California to release some of its prisoners. Harris claims she had to fight the ruling for Gov. Jerry Brown. "I have a client, and I don't get to choose my client," she said. But the attorney general in California is an independent, elected position, not an appointee serving at the governor's pleasure.

In October of 2016, just before she faced voters in her Senate bid, Harris spearheaded the arrest of current and former Backpage executives on charges of pimping and conspiracy, under the (ultimately unsuccessful) theory that providing an open online platform for user-generated content made them responsible for any illegal activity committed by users who connected through the site. Federal law explicitly says otherwise—something Harris certainly knew, as she had petitioned Congress a few years earlier to change the law so that she and other prosecutors could target Backpage (and its deep assets) through state criminal justice systems. What's more, myriad federal courts have affirmed that prosecutions like the one Harris attempted are illegal.

A Sacramento County Superior Court rejected Harris' case against Backpage, ruling that "Congress did not wish to hold liable online publishers for the action of publishing third party speech and it is for Congress, not this court, to revisit." Undeterred, Harris—as one of her final acts as California's top prosecutor—filed nearly identical charges against Backpage in another California court, a move the First Amendment Lawyers' Association called "a gross abuse of prosecutorial discretion" and part of Harris' pattern of disrespecting due process and constitutional rights.

Meanwhile, an actual underage sex-trafficking scandal implicated dozens of police officers and other local authorities throughout the San Francisco Bay Area. Oakland went through two police chiefs trying to address it, with a third doing only questionably better. People were pleading for the state to step in and oversee an independent investigation, since local governments seemed more motivated to quash a PR nightmare than punish public officials. Harris and her office refused to intervene.

Martina 01-11-2019 07:03 PM

Tulsi Gabbard. I don't know much about her, but she was a Bernie supporters.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/11/pol...www.cnn.com%2F

homoe 01-12-2019 12:03 AM

..

I watched Harris this morning (Friday) on Morning Joe and she has NOT decided yet, but she said she'll be making a decision soon!

Martina 01-12-2019 03:21 PM

Julian Castro now --

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...o-texas-speech

dark_crystal 01-12-2019 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina (Post 1237969)

There was a big turnout with a lot of energy at the announcement event. The article shows him on record with support for Medicare for all and raising taxes on the wealthy. Do not know about free college or student debt relief. Strong on social justice and compassionate borders.

We could do worse. Could he win?

Martina 01-12-2019 07:19 PM

I don't know. Turn out and energy are what it takes.

I noticed The Real Bernie Sanders FB group renamed itself Real Bernie Sanders / Tulsi Gabbard Activists.

dark_crystal 01-12-2019 07:31 PM

Twitter is already coming for Castro on DASP (Distressed Asset Stabilization Program)

ksrainbow 01-12-2019 07:59 PM

I am currently watching/learning/listening and researching every one who declare they are a 2020 presidential candidate.

For those who are currently in an elected position: their past/current/new future voting habits on issues will be insightful.

For those who are not: I am hopeful there is a past and current fact-based source for me to be informed.

Ks-

homoe 01-12-2019 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksrainbow (Post 1238001)
I am currently watching/learning/listening and researching every one who declare they are a 2020 presidential candidate.

For those who are currently in an elected position: their past/current/new future voting habits on issues will be insightful.

For those who are not: I am hopeful there is a past and current fact-based source for me to be informed.

Ks-

:goodpost:

homoe 01-12-2019 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksrainbow (Post 1238001)
I am currently watching/learning/listening and researching every one who declare they are a 2020 presidential candidate.

For those who are currently in an elected position: their past/current/new future voting habits on issues will be insightful.

For those who are not: I am hopeful there is a past and current fact-based source for me to be informed.

Ks-

Likewise I'm doing the same.However, I have a long memory and I will NEVER forget, forgive, nor support any of those women who voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh!

ksrainbow 01-12-2019 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homoe (Post 1238014)
Likewise I'm doing the same.However, I have a long memory and I will NEVER forget, forgive, nor support any of those women who voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh!

How they voted is definitely one item I will pay close attention too as well!

Ks-

C0LLETTE 01-13-2019 08:48 AM

Go whole hog or go home.

If Bill De Blasio declares, support and vote for him.

MsTinkerbelly 01-13-2019 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE (Post 1238049)
Go whole hog or go home.

If Bill De Blasio declares, support and vote for him.

I’m lazy this morning and don’t want to do my own research (yet), what do you think makes De Blasio stand out as a possible President?


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