let us not get into literary derails.......I am currently reading the unabridged version of Stranger in a Strange Land. I grok in the fullness of time......when I don't...

Idiocy around the Constitution makes me unreasonable. I doubt anyone who has never taken an 'oath to uphold the Constitution'.......understands what that mean.

All y'all.............would you willingly take an

'oath to uphold the Constutution against all enemies foriegn and domestic' seriously...........

think about it............that means I will work to overthrow a government that subverts the Constitution ..........and I will do it in spite of orders from my superiors.........mutiny if required to uphold that oath..................

Hmmm, Interesting. Do you mean our elected leaders have created war against (we) the people?

If so, nicely stated.

Short answer: No, I wouldn't.

Longer answer: I understand the implications of oaths and why it's imperative that they be honored. I am really grateful that there are people, such as you, who take this particular oath and follow through with whatever is required. I am relieved that there are people like you who are on "my side". It is people like you who enable me to have the freedom to examine and critique and explore whatever I think will ultimately make the world a better place.

Believe me, I completely understand that if people like myself didn't have protectors, we'd be killed early in the fight and then the world would belong to the biggest military power, no matter what they believed in. They might even do a better job running the place. But it would be a world created by a smaller portion of all the people who could have lived and contributed and loved and worked and created, if the physically weak hadn't been protected.

Summary: I wouldn't take that oath because my loyalty is to Truth, Love, Beauty and the Universe. The power of Good. The Force. God/dess. Laugh if you will, call me naive, but somebody has to do it, or there will be no one around to point out the possibilities of what we could become. It's simply in my nature to be this way - it's how I think. So no, I'd never honestly be able to take that oath, because I would always reserve the right to question it, to make sure it continued to support Everything That's Important and didn't become misused and warped.

But thank you for taking it.

economic and social justice............for all


check your local news about occupy no foreclosure,,,,,,,,,,,,

laughin.............

I will be back to talk about this...........but not now...........

just as a point......My oath was to all those ideals of truth, good , love and all that blah blah blah...read the document I swore fealty to........

I am secure in my belief and sworn oath to a voice of equality for all

Awesome! Words are great, but action is more satisfying. Let's all go lie down in front of a bulldozer and handcuff ourselves to each other!

Toughy-


Your post was reported for ugly name-calling.

I get that you are pissed off but it is not ok to call people names anywhere on this forum. You are now on a two week time-out.

During that time-out you are not to access this site, our Facebook page, or make a second screen name in order to circumvent the system.

Thanks,
Medusa

So what is your alternative? What would you do?

(@Toughy - I will! I don't think I've ever read it before. I'm interested now.)

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was serious. I think it's Brilliant. Even if I don't lie down in front of a bulldozer, I'll find a way to support it. I can at least find the Atlanta one and drop off some pizzas and water. (And I was also trying to make a handcuff joke, but no one bit. Never mind that part.)

i liked it.

as for me...i write "Occupy" on every piece of paper currency that passes through my hands in a black sharpie. it's created some interesting conversations at the grocery store, the credit union, the bookstore, the utility companies ( i like to walk my payments in), anyplace where i buy anything with cash.

If literature "derails," then maybe we should find another track. Writers and artists have been giving us visions of the past, present and future for some time now. And if these visions represent derailments, may we need to be stopped and taken off course and be forced to look at the paths we're on. Stranger in a Strange Land may well be the right place to begin our new journey.

The funny thing about democracy is that it's like conversation. It relies on patience, respect and a fundamental belief in equality. You may not agree with what someone is saying, but you pay them the respect of listening because that's what's right and because you want them to hear what you're saying.

Creativity, individuality, the promise of the human mind - these are all things I value, defend, cultivate and work with every day as a teacher and against increasing odds. And I suspect others on this thread do exactly the same thing in their personal and professional lives.

These Occupy efforts really are important. I am elated to see these actions begin and spread throughout Occupy demonstrations all over. Wouldn't it be something if somehow an independent "mortgage" company sprung from this? Something that could just pay-off the loans and re-sell the home to people at low interest rates and the principal amount of the market today. And no FICO scores required! So many of these people could pay a sane mortgage- some have become re-employed, but at lower take-home pay. Maybe even a "grace period" of a few months until payments began (with no accrued interest) if they are not yet back to work.

I had a fantasy today about winning the super-duper lottery and setting up a non-profit re-finance that is totally different than traditional profit motivated banks and mortgage companies that could intervene and partner with the Occupy movement to save these homes. LOL- I don't even buy lottery tickets- but it was the only thing I could think of to do something like this.

I know, I'm not a good candidate for running a business. Anyway- any focus on the housing situation and those losing their homes due to the Wall Street greed that brought our economy to where it did, excites me. There was predatory lending going on with junk securities bundled and sold at insane profits. Relaxing mortgage qualifying documentation and requirements made it very easy to rope all of these people in- and that was exactly what they wanted to do.

You go, George Bailey! You go! (Just watched _It's A Wonderful Life_ this past weekend for the I-won't-say-how-many-Christmases-in-a-row. Down with Potterville! Honestly, if you need a temporary escape from the crisis, it's a good movie - unless you can't stand sugary-sweet escapism.)

New from Anonymous re: The National Defense Authorization Act
 

GeorgiaMa'am with all due respect I appreciate the discussion and Corkey and Toughy and anyone else that responds to My questions.

Yes these are matters that deserve further discussion and not everyone has the same beliefs but nonetheless I respect everyones opinion and try to see their point. It doesn't mean I won't debate it or question it. I've been known to change My mind on some things. Just to be clear I am not here to fight. I am here to have an opinion also and feel free to understand others. I'm sorry if people get upset by that or see me as trying to cause problems cause that is not me. I respect everybody and their opinions.
I do give people the benefit of the doubt. I never said anyones points were not valid and I was just trying to understand some ones view. I was not tearing anyone down. I don't appreciate name calling and i do appreciate others here and the discussion. I have seen people torn down although and I don't understand where that comes from. A bad day? It's a shame some won't make discussion or voice their opinion because others are hateful towards them. I will voice my opinion and I have always been respectful doing so and appreciating others thoughts. So I do thank you for those that do appreciate that also.

Build the New Economy - Generate Alternatives
Across the world millions of people are actively resisting the process of corporate globalization while simultaneously creating viable local alternatives in the here and now. This powerful emerging movement represents a radical departure from ‘business as usual’. In place of the imposition of a single, global world economy, the new paradigm seeks ‘a world that embraces many worlds’ – an adapting biocultural mosaic rather than a global monoculture. Proponents of this approach call for ‘small scale on a large scale’ rather than one-size-fits-all, ‘too big to fail’ blueprints. In turn, the kind of solutions that are being generated flow from diversity, are attentive to the ecological particularities of place, are more responsive to social needs, and are often far more equitable, participatory and democratic.



Help create the new economy from the ground up!




http://www.theeconomicsofhappiness.o...ck-the-economy

Heads up: The National Defense Authorization Act
 

The video is worth watching, folks, especially if you are just coming into the dialogue here and haven't read about the act yet. The Senate just passed this bill last week. The bill allows for indefinite detention in secret prisons, secret interrogations and trial-free domestic terror proceedings and processes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...mericans-face/

http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes...orization-act/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...on-Act-of-2012

Well thank you! One of my favorite Christmas movies! I just can't help but think there is a way to tackle this problem via OWS. I really am happy to see the Occupy people in many places on the lawns of foreclosure situations. A couple of these actions have helped get some more time for some folks. We need to get these properties completely out of the hands of banks and re-structure loans based upon actual market values today. Just that would enable many to stay in their homes and pay it off. Some of the bogus loan products people were sold were just nuts! Some of these loans can't even be traced to wherever they ended up!

Oh, I can deal with sugary-sweet escapism!

60 Minutes Asks: 'Why Aren't We Prosecuting Wall Street?'
 

This past Sunday 60 minutes did a segment on all the fraud that went on at banks such as Countrywide and how no one in the SEC or FBI is willing to do a serious investigation or prosecute them. This link has a transcript and video of the show:

http://occupyamerica.crooksandliars....t-we-prosecuti

Here's a snippet of the interview:

Los Angeles votes to end corporate personhood
 

LINK: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/0...te-personhood/

Yes! This is exactly what needs to be done! No easy task, but must happen. This would be such a great OWS focus nationwide. The Citizens United decision is so very much at the core of why there has been such wage disparity in the US for so long.

Here's the video - Go City of Angels
 

"Los Angeles is the first major city in the United States to call for a constitutional amendment that clearly establishes that human being and only human beings are entitled to constitutional rights and that money is not the same as free speech, thus providing the basis to overturn Citizen's United decision."

My latest email from the NAACP
 

http://action.naacp.org/page/-/image...ader-email.jpg

Legislators around the nation have been working to strip or severely restrict the right of their fellow Americans to vote. They claim to be preventing voter fraud. They deny that their goal is to suppress the votes of people of color, students, the elderly, and the poor. The truth is their efforts amount to nothing more than a scheme to undo generations of work securing the voting rights for all Americans. The NAACP and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund have released an important new report on the relationship between the historic levels of participation in the 2008 election and the new voter suppression bills proposed and passed by legislatures around the country. The report removes any doubt about our opponents' intent, and we must not ignore this attack.

Take a moment to read the report and find out the truth. Then make sure your friends and family know about it too:

http://action.naacp.org/defending-democracy-report

The report, "Defending Democracy: Confronting Modern Barriers to Voting Rights in America," provides indisputable evidence of a coordinated attack intended to silence the communities who turned out in record-breaking numbers in 2008: young people and communities of color. The report exposes the reasons why new stringent voter ID requirements, bans on the formerly incarcerated -- people who have already paid their debt to society -- and suppressive rules on voter registration and early voting periods are being pursued.

In short, these laws threaten to undermine the record levels of political participation witnessed during the historic 2008 Presidential election by blocking access to millions of people, many of them our most vulnerable citizens. And it's no coincidence that this comprehensive assault was launched just in time to affect the 2012 election.

You can find full details of the voter suppression initiatives in the report. More importantly, the report provides a roadmap for our communities to begin to actively counter these block-the-vote efforts. "Defending Democracy" is eye opening, and serves as the backbone for our Stand For Freedom Rally at the United Nations in New York City on December 10th. Please take a moment to download the report and spread the word to friends and family:

http://action.naacp.org/defending-democracy-report

Today we face one of the biggest threats to civil rights in over a century. If these powerful forces capture our right to vote, the other rights we care so deeply about -- education, health care, equality for all -- could be at risk.

Thank you in advance for learning more about this crucial issue and taking action in your community.

Yours in justice,

Kim

Kim Michele Keenan, Esq.
General Counsel
NAACP

This Saturday December 10th NYC
 

Standing for Freedom
( copied from http://www.stand4freedom.org/ )

This year, two-thirds of state legislatures have introduced laws that undermine the right to vote. Early voting and Sunday voting are under attack, photo ID requirements will introduce the first financial and document barrier to voting since the poll tax, and racially-motivated bans on ex-felons will wipe tens of thousands off the rolls.

This effort is unprecedented, it is coordinated, and it is targeted. African Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, Native Americans, students, working women, seniors and immigrants of all colors will be disproportionately affected.

The right to vote is the heart of our democracy. Throughout our history Americans have been murdered for defending this basic human right. We will not let it be taken away from millions today.

Join us on Saturday, December 10th—The United Nations’ Human Rights Day—to proclaim to America and the world:

It’s time to Stand for Freedom. We must protect our right to vote.
Assembly and March Information

10:30 am to 11:30 am: assemble 61st St. and Madison Ave., the Koch brothers' NYC office.

11:30 am: March from 61st St. and Madison Ave. to Dag Hammarskjold Plaza at 47th St. and 2nd Ave.

12:30 pm: Rally at Dag Hammarskjold Plaza across from the United Nations.

End copy and paste

Join me anyone? Give a yell if you want to meet up...

If there is a separate thread for discussion of teh Citizen's United Case, I'll post this there also.
But meanwhile, if you , like me, believe that Corporations are NOT people, granted the same rights of Free Speech, PLEASE, help correct the Citizen's United Decision with this Constitutional Amendment . This is the time, there is awareness growing all over, even in L.A. :)
Sign Senator Sanders Petition and share widely !!!

Signed. Thank you for posting this.

slightly off topic but i find it relevant....here's what the military thinks about it's members


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...ry.html?wprss=


horrifying really.

BUMP! Let's bump this often!!
 

Please circulate on FB, Twitter.... and bump a lot!! Thanks MsMerrick!

That is FUBAR. Why isn't there more reports of this in the main stream press?

Thom Hartman with some good news about OWS
 

Tell Congress to end the Bush tax cuts
 

Didn't notice this posted in the thread:


http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/bush_tax_cuts_2011/

gee i can't imagine. we are just expendable trash after all. who wouldn't want us to know that? the count was 2700 soldiers. i'm sure there's more. mebbe no one wants the comparison drawn of mass body graves of the past? cuz Bush started it and it was clearly never ended by the current administration? cuz it's beyond disgusting? i could go on and on.

Not just FUBAR but SNAFU.

Yeah we're fucked. Most people are still not awake either.