I like the way you stated this. Sun-Thurs, I am in full-blown, kid-wrangling mode. I leave work, pick up kids, run necessary errands, go home, do homework, do housework, make sure showers are taken & clothes laid out for the next day. And, at some point in the day, I try to have a little "me" time.

Honestly, I think that my life can be a circus.

I understand that there are people out there who would gladly be part of that in exchange for an always quiet house, always eating alone, going to bed alone. But I would never want anyone to think I was looking for a maid, a parent, a tutor, a fellow ringleader etc when what I really wanted was a partner.

:sparklyheart:

Had I been asked if I believed in marriage twenty years ago, I would have answered with a resounding "hell no"; but I have come to realize that my perception was tainted by my parents bad marriage and very ugly divorce.

Today, my answer is absolutely. For me, it is the deepest level of commitment, trust and love.

Now, to stray off for a minute, I wanted to say something about this:

I guess the way I look at this is:

Let's say that Dapperbutch and I were married and hy started a business that helped people learn how to ask the right million questions to clarify whatever they needed clarification for, in life.

So imagine 10 years down the line, when hys business is successful...when hy is world renowned and featured every Wednesday night at 8:00pm on OWN TV for hys expertise on the Art of Questioning, I decide I want a divorce. Is it hys success and hys success only? No. Because 10 years earlier, hy wanted to start a business and he needed support. For hym to start this business, hy needed to rent space to be able to work (because I don't think the marriage would have lasted that long had it been run out of the house) and that costs money, as did all necessary equipment, services, business license, insurance etc...

Now, as we all know, businesses normally do not make money for the first few years, and most of hys time would be at the site. Well, I imagine it would have been my salary that would cover the loan payments, and bills for a while, along with my having to cover hys medical and dental insurance through my agency. Not just the money I paid out, but I would have managed the household, the household bills and any issues that come up at home so that hy was able be able to concentrate on building hys business.

And let's not forget emotional support. I was the one that was there for hym, during the ups and downs all these years, cheerleading him on. (imagine the pom pom smiley here)

Would it seem reasonable that when we divorced that I don't get anything from the business? To me it doesn't. And for most people I know who own their own businesses, the spouse is the person that does everything outside of the business to make it possible for that person to focus on the business and not have to worry about household/child issues. So I believe that I would be entitled to a percentage of the business, as I did help to build it.

I hope that all made sense. :)

Thanks for letting me ramble.

I think this would be the ideal situation...I love living with Kasey and the family we have made...I love coming home to her, and watching her sleep...but I would LOVE to have a couple of days a week, month, whatever to myself. I crave alone time, and now that she works from home I get very little.

Although I am not married, I am in a 3 year monogomous relationship with my girlfriend. I spent many years living alone. Either I was "dating" or in a serious long distance relationhip. I discovered the joys of alone time.

Logistically I have the best scenario going, for me. I live next door to my girlfriend. Our schedules allow the two of us some alone time at least once a week. My gf has joint custody of her 9 year old daughter and finding alone time can be a challenge.

I am not complaining. What I am saying is that I have found that the "traditional" set up may not always work in the best interest of my relationship and maybe for others.

For me, there has always been marriage between myself and those I love, whether it was legally sanctioned by the state or not. Marriage means a commitment of my heart. And I wouldn’t be with you if I were not committed to you. Well, it happened once. However, I prefer to believe that was an anomaly brought about in response to a unique set of circumstances and not likely to reoccur. So when I partner it has always been a marriage to me. However the benefit of a legal marriage is another matter and one I had not considered important until recently.

Truly Scrumptious and I lived in different countries and when we first began our relationship neither country recognized same sex marriage. However, Canada recognized common law or conjugal relationships between same sex partners for purposes of immigration. The U.S. has no provision for same sex partner immigration, so there didn’t need to be a lot of conversation about what we were going to do.

It was right around the time of my moving to Quebec, that Canada decided to recognize gay marriage federally. It would be another six years before we would get married.

I married Truly because I love her, of course, but also for legal purposes and in the hopes that someday I might be able to bring my wife home to be near the other love of my life, the Cape Cod National Seashore. I married for the ease and convenience that marriage affords. Although I had a hard time figuring out what those conveniences were living here. In Canada one need not be married to claim one another for income tax purposes. In Quebec, if they offer health insurance, employers are required by law to insure the partners of employees including same sex partners, or any common law/conjugal partner of any sex. Also in Quebec when you marry no names are changed. If you want your name changed you need to go and do it legally and pay for it. It is not an automatic thing. So really I was hard pressed to imagine what the difference a piece of paper could possibly make. I did figure it would make things easier in the event of illness or death. Although a friend who gives financial advice for a living recommends a will for ease and speed. Yet, I could not help but think if we were married it would appear more of a commitment.

Although we could have gotten married in Montreal, we chose to marry in Vermont in order to keep a foothold in the U.S. On the off chance that the U.S. would recognize gay marriage on a federal level, we thought it would look good if we could say we had been married in the U.S. It is a way of keeping the possibility of coming back there to live with my wife a viable option should anything change. I did not choose to leave my country. My country pushed me away when it refused to allow me to sponsor the woman I loved for immigration. When it would not let me bring her home, the U.S. gave me no choice but to change my home so that my heart could stay in my chest rather than follow Truly to Canada alone. It is more difficult than I imagined to love two countries. Canada has earned my loyalty but the United States holds my history. I thought I would walk away from the U.S. and never look back, especially considering how pissed off I was about how things ended between us. But it is not that easy to turn one’s back on one’s roots. Besides I may have been forced to leave if I wanted to be with the woman I love, but I’m not letting them take any more away from me. It’s not that easy to get rid of me. So I still vote in U.S. elections and stay involved in U.S. politics. For me, legalizing marriage on the federal level in the U.S. means moving back there with my wife becomes an option. That is one benefit gay marriage affords us. The residing country for those in binational relationships becomes one of choice. Instead of a hmmm, what country will have us, then let’s move there, kind of thing. Not that we might not have chosen Canada anyway given socialized medicine, which is awesome by the way. As well as how the heart of the distinct society called Quebec matches mine so well. But it would have been our decision. And the pain of missing my ocean would feel different if I had chosen it.

When we decided to get married, I never imagined it would feel any differently. I knew I could not love T.S. more because of a piece of paper. I believed it would have no effect whatsoever. I was wrong. It deeply moved me. The ceremony itself and the reality of being married, of being legally required to be here, has been profoundly affecting.

I’m not a fan of prenups. I get why they are important but it feels like I’m betting against myself.

The idea of keeping separate condos or houses is an interesting one, but it is unlikely that the average couple could afford to maintain two homes, regardless of how independent they would like to remain. I guess it’s a good option if you have the finances for it. It is difficult enough for most people I know to live with roommates or partners sharing expenses. A singular existence is becoming more and more economically difficult in these hard times. I guess one could keep the apartment one has with one’s roommate or roommates. But I would imagine for many, if they have to live with someone, pool finances and share expenses it might as well be their spouse. Most will likely have to settle for reading a book in another room, or if they only have one room, they will have to take long walks alone, wander through a bookstore, take in a soft ball game at a neighborhood park or find some other affordable way to get the valued time alone they crave.

A while back I would of said yes to marriage, but now I love my alone time. My partner has hys own place down the road from me. Actually, it works out quite well. When we want to be together we can. And also enjoy own independence. I feel I have the best of both worlds. It's not about being able to be with someone else because we have an understanding that we are partners .... this is the happiest I been in quite awhile. We decided in the beginning that we would not rush it. So we took months of just getting to know one another without the sex, it was the best decision for me and hym.


It works for us so far. :koolaid:

A lot of very good points.

If someone no longer wants to work and make the marriage a living thing, no piece of paper is going to keep them there.

I really wish that we as a whole were better at fighting for our basic civil rights so that "marriage" would not be the focus of the struggle to earn an equal playing field in jobs/housing/basic human dignity.

The difficulty that I sometimes have is one of societal expectations and many of those expectations are the same whether we are straight, gay or somewhere in between.

One of those expectations is that, if you're in love with someone you want to spend 24 / 7 with them. I've no doubt that works for many, probably most, folk but it just doesn't for me. Part of the reason may be that I've spent most of my adult life either single or in what would be termed reasonably casual relationships.

As a result, I've become accustomed to my own space and feel very claustrophic if I feel it's under threat and, furthermore, for right or wrong, whilst I've craved love and intimacy, I've not craved it in a 24 / 7 sense.

I just cannot do 24 / 7 in that "normal way" .... closest I could get to this would be separate bedrooms / living spaces in the same h.ouse.

The difficultly I often have is that, in the past, when articulating these feelings to partners, many have felt slighted or have questioned my commitment when, from my perspective, it wasn't about love or commitment ... but about preserving my sanity and preserving and actually strengthening a relationship.

For those of you choosing "alternate joining" rather than marriage as your status, would you mind explaining your arrangements and why not "marriage", and for those choosing no marriage ever, what led you to this point?

I think I'm harder to live with as I get older. I get "peopled out" easily at work, and love to come home to a shower and a bowl of Raisin Bran for dinner. I like keeping my home as I like it, and not picking up all the time after someone else. If I want to decorate it a certain way, it can be mine, all mine :).

Ciaran's posts ring a bell for me. I'm so much better when I have about 2x "me time" for 1x "couple time", if that makes sense. It's not a reflection on my partner, but what I need to be happiest.

It's been pointed out to me that if my partner and I married, my taxes would likely go through the roof, and I would be liable for her debt (not that she's a gambler or anything; I just mean, in general).

I don't believe that is for the debt that he/she comes in with, but it probably would be for any debt she creates while in the marriage, if you divorce. To be sure, check where you live.

With that said, certainly we are held hostage to our new spouse's debt in one way or another. If I have 50K in debt, it surely would impact how many vacations I could go on with Tantalizing. Thus, my debt would be impacting her life if she is debt free and wants to go away every other month.

The person who pointed that out to me is my partner herself, LOL.

Being married is fun, so long as it's with the right person. Been married twice and they say the third time's a charm. Of course, it's not for everyone, but I kinda like it.

:blueheels: