i had no idea that thread was supposed to be about heteronormative relationships. i thought it was about trans folks and partners of trans folks (heteronormative or not).

Yikes
 

:| I must of read it wrong

My apologies

Shit, sorry Steph I was totally mistaken about the thread I put the saddle ahead of the horse:|

This isn't funny, having a vagina doesn't make you a passive aggressive communicator.

c. and i have exchanged rings. i don't know if we'll ever have a ceremony, and we can't get legally married. my parents were gone well before we got together and he doesn't have a close relationship with his, although i might be meeting his dad at christmas. neither of us are big fans of tradition so there was no asking (nor would there ever be). the only person whose consent really matters to either of us is our own.

ick if that is assumed to be dad as a rule

Well, I don't claim to make sense. Lol. I was also agreeing w/Greyson but obviously not communicating well. I believe women are in charge AND they should be. Albeit, more visibly, but I still think more than people believe they are. And again, THAT'S A GOOD THING! ;-)

Our wedding and such
 

This is a slight derail, but with the talk of religion and rituals and wedding and heterosexuality and such, I figured I may as well mention our wedding and how/why we did what we did, if there was even a reason.

We were legally married within an inter-faith church by a pagan priestess. We were given a blessing by a fellow pastor because he wanted to be there, and his religion would not allow him to marry us so that was the best gift he could give us.

The church we were married in is one of Bard's favorite places. It was not a matter of religion, or how it may be more acceptable to society - it was simply a place that was sacred to her. Mary, our priestess, was absolutely wonderful. We wanted more of a spiritual ceremony than religious. She spoke of the elements, the higher being, the union of our families - vague enough not to offend any of my Catholic family but enough to feel the love.

We had a unity sand with three vases to bring Bard's daughter into the ceremony with us, because it was not a bonding of not two but three. We were handfasted, then exchanged rings because as Mary put it: we can not be together physically all the time, so the rings are a representation of our bond and commitment towards each other.

I am her wife, and she is my husband, wife, husbutch - we have not settled on an exact term. Normally, she is just my wife. My father (lovingly) will refer to her as my husband, and she occasionally refers to herself as my hus(house)butch. There is fluidity in the pronouns, but we don't care. I wore a dress because I like dresses, and she wore a tux because she likes tuxes. It was not a matter of her representing the 'man' in the relationship. It's just how she dresses, and it is no different than her everyday wear.

Would our wedding fit the stereotypical heterosexual wedding? Yes. Do I care? Not in the least. I got married, our family and friends were there to celebrate it with us, and we put aside enough wedding money to come celebrate with you fine folks. Win, win!

:rrose:

I detest this sort of gender stereotyping. In my mind, it's the reverse of "women cannot ...." way of thinking and it's the same bull****.

Doesn't matter whether you say it's a good thing or whether it's seen as pro-women. In my opinion, it's crude gender stereotyping.

the head of our household was my mom...even though she did remarry a few years after getting divorced. she made the decisions no matter what.

i think that's one of the funny things about our relationship...i love it when he tops, or takes on the role of daddy (we take turns, it's cool)...but he usually defers to me when it comes to decision making.

with traditional marriage stuff, a lot of the ickiness i have with it is around class and cultural differences. even if my parents were alive, there'd be no asking, although my mom's input would probably be a part of the process of deciding whether the relation even GOT that far. i mean, my mom's opinion mattered a lot to me so if she thought it was a bad idea then i'd stop and question why, though it wouldn't be a make or break thing. most people don't really get legally married, though, so i don't think it would be an issue that we can't and don't want to...we'd fit right in with the rest of my family, lol.

but paying for the wedding and economic support and all that...i get that some people can do that or want to do that, but it completely and utterly blows my mind. i don't know anybody growing up whose parents did that (or were able to). c.'s extended family is pretty upper class and traditional so i guess they see things that way when it comes to his cousins and stuff, but for me it's mind-boggling. i mean, i know people do it, it's just very far removed from the way i grew up and the relationships i was around, so it's hard for me to imagine.

With all due respect, I am not stereotyping. I am however obviously guilty of not communicating well today via this stupid smart phone.
And I said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot."
I do believe I was more than supportive of women, so my apologies for being misunderstood.

desd-Other than our officiant being a UU minister, our weddings are quite similiar.

Kobi-VERY interesting info on traditions and their origins.

Yes exactly! I wore a tux last year to the Reunion and will wear one this year. If I get married I will be wearing one as well. I will be a butch groom, not representing the man. :)

I do not subscribe to butch=male; femme=female. Some do, but I do not.

We did not intend for anyone to help us pay. Our parents offered to pay for the reception 50/50, and we felt it would be rude to decline such a gift. My parents passed down the rings they were married with 25 years ago. I am the oldest, and the first one married, and my father went above and beyond and paid for our dj and cake. My sister will be given the same. Everything else we paid for ourselves.

We were set on pizza and wings in a big log cabin by some waterfalls, but apparently that was too eccentric for my father (and thus the offering to pay for the reception came). :mohawk:

No apology needed.

However, you were sterotyping. You said women "have much better reasoning power" than men. If that's not stereotyping, I don't know what is.

I know that you said nothing remotely resembling "women cannot". However, I was simply responding that, in my view, crude gender stereotypes such as "women have much better reasoning power than men" are all part of that same gender stereotyping equation which discredits the individual.

I believe Ciaran was saying it's the same as saying "Women cannot do ___ because only men can." "Men cannot 'reasonably communicate' because only women can."

That is how I read it, please correct me if I am wrong.

Bard mentions sometimes that mayhaps hy will lose hys butch card because hy can't do something "a butch should be able to do". This is in reference to say, car stuff. Some things we associate as more a male trait, but it is mostly in jest and not in a serious or condescending manner.

In our relationship, hy cooks because I am a limited cook, and I clean because I enjoy it whereas hy would prefer to just cook. Hy does most of the laundry, and I am often buying stuff to decorate the home. When the car breaks down, we go to a mechanic. Easy as that!

I did say "I believe women have better reasoning power than men." I stand by that but I should have added, IMO. That's what I believe these threads & forums are about; voicing & discussing opinions. The word stereotype has a negative connotation, which come to think of it, might make for a good thread in itself.
The differences, perceptions of opinions versus stereotyping.