Ah, I see what you're saying.

I think when I think of the Butch/Femme dance in my head, it is a specific dynamic based on mutual attraction of certain gender-types. This is probably binary thinking. That dance has been exploded for me in amazing ways by witnessing Butches date other Butches and Femmes date other Femmes and Transmen dating Butches or Femmes and vice-versa.

My specific brand of Femme is attracted to Butches when it comes to sex and partnering. I like the genderfuck and the mind-fuck. The other wonderful thing that comes from that is that I find camaraderie with other Femmes who have a similar kind of specific attraction to other Butches. It's just familiar and intimate on levels that feel cozy (and maybe safe?)

Doesn't mean I don't have anything in common with Femme sisters who exclusively date other Femmes or Transmen. It's just a different orbit and a different level of connection.

When I think of the kind of boundaries I want to have in friendships and dating, I think about the value of my connections and not the gender of those connections.

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.

Nor do I!!

Assuming it is natural or the norm IS, however.

I think I am probably way more likely to assume that on this website microcosm than I am out in my general Queer circles. That's just based on what I perceive to be the patterns of attraction in this community.

Have certainly seen folks date across all genders here but I do think that the majority of connections I see are based on an attraction that looks very much like a yin/yang.

still trying to understand
 

I'm glad you do that! I think it helps break down some of those pre-conceived notions or maybe patterns of expectation that we all bump into.

I know I feel much the same way (gratitude) when people speak up for "ahem, not all Butches identify as 'he'" and "not all fat Femmes want to lose weight" and "ahem, bottom Butch does NOT equal submissive".

Dating other femmes exes:
 

Every Butch who has ever dated a femme is some femmes Ex

And are all femmes to be considered Sister femmes to every femme on Planet?

Perhaps it would it be better for each butch to come with a warning label - Be forewarned my ex is _____ and ______ and ______.

And at what time does my own desire, my own happines mean anything - Good lord, does this mean I'm bad and wrong if I find someone attractive who has dated someone on Planet who is someone's EX.

And If I decide to do the right thing in another femme's eyes and not date her EX, will she help me look outside of Planet for someone for me to date?

And is this discussion about any Ex on Planet OR the just the Ex of a femme that I've developed a bond?

I hate stepping on other people's hearts - why did this subject have to come up - man!! NOW I have more worries on my plate.

My little list of what is acceptable for a perspective date has just become almost Nil.
:seeingstars:

Ah!
 

Ahhh, see I post with the assumption Ex meant ex period, not just specific to butch.femme relationships.

I'm personally not goinfriendship friendship over lust/dating that goes across the gender board.

I like gender. I like people who rock it, be they femme, butch, genderqueer or something else.

I also like power; powerful people do it for me.

I am not interested in someone because they are butch or femme. I like butch. I like femme. But I like my kinda butch and my kinda femme. Butches who are not like the kind who do it for me -- I am no more interested in than in anyone else who does not ring my bell.

What I do get from butches and femmes that I am grateful for (and need) is that mutual recognition that we offer one another, that respect and appreciation of one another that we so far can only get from one another. I value that highly.

Edited to add: This probably seems like it follows from nothing. Just commenting on the Ying-Yang thing. I am not so ying yang except where power is concerned. Not so much with gender.

Lady-

I perceive people to be talking about *very* close friendships, not the casual connections that I think you are describing.

Just for example, June and I are very close friends. She is my sistergirl and I have known her and her partner for going on 8 or 9 years now. I love them both.
They also know Jackhammer and I has a couple. We have been in each other's homes several times and June and I are probably responsible for keeping AT&T in business with thousands of hours of phone calls.

We are close in ways that are super intimate and I have confided in her as she has in me about very personal things. If she and Kat broke up, you couldn't PAY me to date Kat. Or even consider it. (and that isn't because I don't think Kat is awesome, because she is, but she is my girl's partner and therefor off limits in huge ways fo-eva-eva).

And honestly, it's not even something that will ever come up because my relationship with Jackhammer is forever and #2 My friendship with June is a primary friendship.

Woooo!
 

You're welcome to date any of my exes!!

for me it would be the same thing if i get into a relationship/date my heterosexual male friend's ex.

makes no difference if my friend is homosexual/heterosexual/transexual/bisexual/butch/femme, etc. ... it's still my friends ex.

Wow Queen of Smirks!

I snubbed my nose at no one and clearly said we all have our own opinions and and as usual, many of us disagree.

I DO get that many if you have a different value or belief system. In what universe is that not OK?

Rhetorical question because I don't know if you play devils advocate or what but you do tend to frequently poke at an opinion that you do not agree with.

That feels real judgmental to me!!

In the same way that you are entitled to your opinion:

I am also entitled to mine!!

I agree whole heartedly with all the above here....

I think the above is important to repeat.


Anya, I can tell by your very emotional reaction to this situation/subject that you really care for your friend. I hope that this will soon be a distant memory for her and bitterness stays far away. :)

Many good points have been made. The main one that I agreed with is the issue of acquaintance vs good friend. A good friend's ex would be off limits for me without a considerable amount of discussion with that friend. But to exclude acquaintances' ex's would be unreasonably limiting in an already limited and therefor unavoidably incestuous community.

And I have to say honestly that in a situation of A and B break up, A starts dating C then gets hurt because her acquaintance D is flirting with her ex B at a party? Sorry, but to me, there's too many degrees of separation there in MY mind for A to justify getting upset that her ex and an acquaintance are flirting when A already has someone new.

I guess I'm not understanding this question in the context of a situation that you described as being all "real life" and not online. Do you mean people who are acquaintances only online? Or people who are real-life acquaintances but who interact online? or do you mean online "dating" without having ever met?