I've noticed that a lot of transmen feel a lot more understanding of men after transition, to the point of being sympathetic. Their libido's go up, they physically feel bigger, they start to realise what an aggressive world men live in, and they have to balance this new realisation with their understanding of the world they lived in before they became male.

What transmen lack, that perhaps Chaz forgot in his excitement, is the sense of entitlement that bio-boys are fed from birth. Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, women are supposed to say no. Sex is the male arena. Even without the social pressures we expect, a female animal of any sort would take care who she slept with in case she became pregnant to the wrong male.

Hopefully when things have calmed down somewhat, Chaz will look back at some of the things he said in the public sphere (in fact he may have already done so), and acknowledge the many way he could have been misunderstood.

I'm really glad that everyone is talking about Chaz, it makes me happy.

That is something I have heard coming out of the mouths of a few transguys, as well as read on online forums. My bf is also less interested in chitchat and gossip now that he's transitioned, which makes me wonder if there really is something going on. Maybe the hormones do make boys less verbal, which in turn would make them less interested in non-essential talk. I'm guessing too that Chaz, being in his adolescent stage at the time the documentary was made, pretty much behaved like most adolescents do - Self-absorbed, blustery and impatient.

I am guilty of finding myself less interested in chit chat; however, that's not exclusive to chit chat from women.

My "becoming" occurred (socially) at a poker table in a truck stop.....almost always all-men-all-the-time. And lemme tell ya.....some of those guys could do a serious amount of gabbing about nothin' much. There were times I had that "nails on a chalkboard" reaction and had to take a little table break.

So, yeah, I find anything that is said along the lines of "women this" and "women that" to be sexist. There aren't a whole lot of qualities, gifts, annoying traits, etc... that belong solely to --insert gender ID here--.

That really bothered me too. I have to say that when I got on my full dose of T, my basic personality and the way I interact with people didn't change much. I am still me, still careful about how my words and deeds affect people, and I have made it a priority to not become self-absorbed into my transition. Whatever my friends and family are going through, I still try to be engaged in their lives and a source of support for them. I have always been sensitive to the feelings and needs of others, and that hasn't changed.

I was surprised and taken aback at how Chaz treated his girlfriend in the "kitchen" scene. And to say that when his girlfriend is upset she has to make everyone around her upset, well maybe Chaz needs to own his own feelings and not place her as responsible for them. That was my reaction when I watched the documentary.

However, since I have had some time to reflect, I have decided that I don't have enough context and exposure to their relationship to really understand what is going on with them. I am hesitant to pass judgment on someone else's relationship when I have so little exposure to it. The documentary gave us a glimpse, and I recognize that my initial feelings and thoughts about it all are based on a very limited amount of information.

As for some of his sexist comments about women and men in general, and his seeming assumption that being an asshole is just a male trait, those are things that irritate me because I know they aren't necessarily true. They aren't true for me! I keep thinking, and I don't want to be lumped into that stereotype. It is an ugly one and it doesn't have to be that way for men. My father is nothing like that. He is a kind and gentle soul who is very other-centered. I get these traits from him. I was raised by a father who isn't a sexist, self-absorbed pig. A lot of the assumptions that those are male traits ignores that fact that these are social constructs.

I am a woman and I have zero interest in "gabbing," chit chat or gossip. Actually I'm pretty quiet and not a big talker. (may come as a big surprise to some here ;) ) I know of plenty of men who just go on and on about nothing as well as women. In fact for me, one of the trademarks of men's entitlement is them talking on and on. Not all men do it and not all women engage in "chatter." It's sexist to characterize women's talk that way.

I think one of the things that the doc does poorly is maintain the idea that T is the cause of all the anger, frustration, "personality changes", etc. Personality stays the same but we tend to attribute it to T when in fact it was always there. We just ignored it or downplayed it.

Yeah and unfortunately Chaz is reinforcing these ideas in his interviews.

You are being very candid, June and I admire you for this- as much as my mother loved me and supported my being lesbian, she had a few "beats" to deal with and I think that is just plain human. The sexism displayed by Chaz is nothing new, unfortunately. No, it is the acceptance and rolling it into T effects that is nothing new. And I think this hurts Transmen and is an affront to them.

I get really tired of the T-blaming with this and feel that it is quite a negative view of transmen. Adolescent self-absorption does not justify sexist attitudes and behaviors- not for anyone. I certainly had many discussions with my son about this growing up. In fact, he came to me during adolescence and was the child of two alcoholics and a neglectful mother that due to her own abuse background, surrounded herself with abusive misogynists that my son viewed for many years as male role models. There was a lot to undo- it wasn't teen angst and puberty propagating sexism for him!

Also, grieving the loss of gender of a child, parent, sibling, friend, partner is an area of our whole response to transitioning that I think gets swept aside as the trans person's experiences become the main event. This bothers me a lot because we humans are "not islands." I know that even as trans supportive as I am, if my son transitioned, it would be difficult for me in some ways and I would grieve the loss of him as a male. Not very PC of me, I know, but truthful. Frankly, I would be concerned and scared about any possible health risks that could arise for him as well as just the usual fear of having someone you love undergo surgeries under anesthesia. I would deal with these things on my own and seek help for myself (not put my fears on him), but I know I would have these feelings. I also know that I would support him in every way possible.

Throughout the years with the (unfortunately) public trials of Chaz and his celebrity parents, I have felt there was a lot of self-absorption and immaturity. But, there are many Hollywood children that appear to be indulged, and end up doing some very self -destructive things (talking about drugs, alcohol, not transitioning). All ending up in the public eye- which in and of itself seems to add to the mess. For years, Chaz's weight struggles have been blasted all over the tube (he even was on the Biggest Loser), for example. Frankly, it seems like when he was female (to the outside world), these weight comments were common and worse- hummm… what does this say about weight issues and women as opposed to men? Now, his transitioning.

Part of me wonders just how much he really wanted such a public display of his life... yet, again. Or, did he just feel that no matter what he felt and wanted, there was no escape? So, he might as well let the cameras roll. There is just something in his defensive posturing (that was also part of Chastity that I remember) that always gives me pause. Something in his eyes that just felt/feels both angry and sad- even now that he has been able to transition. Maybe this will dissipate as he is able to live his life as who he always has been. I hope so.

I am happy that the trans community has found this documentary to be positive. But, I hope that Chaz finally just gets to have his own life. But, I don't see that happening and I think this is something Hollywood celebrity) kids pay a very high price for.- having a life.

I don’t know if other folks have done any searches online and run across some of the blogs, etc. by the general public about this documentary and Chaz- I have and it is upsetting. Very upsetting- most of them are in response not only to the documentary, but the appearances on shows like Piers Morgan and Joy Behar. The same old gender-ignorance in comments along with a lot of horrible comments about his obesity. Some really ugly things being said. Seeing this hurts and makes me wonder if there is any way to educate the general public about this at all. But, I have no idea how representative these are really. I would really like to see links that are to positive reactions from outside the LGBTIQ community. Please, post some if you have seen them. I can’t take any more of the kind I keep seeing. There is such a long way yet to go.

When I first started My T, and I'm not even on a full dose yet, I noticed that My sex drive went through the roof ~ its also not something I was used to so it threw Me off and at first I kinda pushed the increased sexual thoughts aside because I still was not used to wanting it that much (or even at all). I think now that I've gotten more used to the increase I'm celebrating more the fact that I even have a sex drive. I agree that just because you have a heightened sex drive does *NOT* mean you can sexually abuse/assault/rape anyone .......... even just to use that as an excuse is appaling and there is no reason for it. I know thats not what Chaz was saying, and I get where he was coming from but you do have to choose your words carefully no matter what gender you are

I kinda shook My head here too, cuz I thought why would you try and justify that stuff on the hormones when thats not it at all

On the morning news It said Chaz will be on Dr.Drew either tonight or tomorrow..Should be intresting to see what Dr.Drew comes up with.
One thing I noticesd on the Piers Morgan show was that there is some unease going on between Chaz and Jen,corse haveing been on so many
shows may be getting to be a bit much.After watching them as well as seeing the body language I wonder if they will be together in a year...I get she is a bit snippy about how she deals with all of this and chaz reminds me of a hormone driven teenager(from The T shots) I gess its normal or maybe a change on dosage will still do the job and chill him a bit.

I liked the point Jenn made that everyone is in transition when a friend, loved one, etc goes through a transition. I thought about my own "transition" on many levels as Rufus decided to and then went through his own transition. I am interested in knowing what types of transitions partners of trans men and women go through.

Melissa

I do think that many of Jenn's responses were inappropriate and there were a lot of cringe moments for me. On the other hand, she states she was drinking at this time so I think a lot of these comments and behaviors might be related to her drinking. I think we don't really have a good sense of who Jenn is because a lot of what she said and did was while under the influence. My first reaction was that I didn't like her. But by the end of the doc and the interview with Rosie I really did come to like her (like is such a vague word, but I don't know how to describe it). She said some things that resonated with me and made me think. She didn't come across as phony but as very real. But again this could be a product of good filmmakers and editors plus the drinking. But all in all I got a lot out of this documentary and I'm glad Jenn was included. This was a doc about Chaz's transition, but also his relationship, Jenn's responses, his mother's response and so on.

Melissa

Good points, Melissa--ones that I hadn't thought about (re: the drinking) and, toward the end, she didn't irritate me as much. That post was first impressions about a half hour or forty five minutes into the doc.

I am VERY glad she was included. Very.

I have this feeling her and Chaz are in for rough times. I wish them the best.

I totally agree. I really hate that he *went there* about chalking up temper tantrums to the T.

I believe our sense of character stays the same but testorone is a drug and hormone and it does have side effects. But how these manifest in each individual is different and irregardless of how they manifest it doesn't excuse a persons behavior.

I know if I take my shot and I haven't eaten or if I take it too late in the day I will have a similiar effect to drinking several pots of expresso. The couple times i had this reaction I laid low until it passed, took note and I don't take my shot on an empty stomach nor at night. I knew i was on the edge and knew to stay clear of people.

Otherwise it has had the opposite effect on me. I am way calmer and mellower then I ever was. I am far less emotional. This doesn't mean I still don't have them they just aren't as easily seen. I use to bawl when watching extreme makeover home edtion, I now may have a tear or two well up. I am still touched but how it manifests in me is different.

I use to have extreme hormonal mood swing and actually what I called the pms flue and all that is gone. When things happen that would have put me in a tizzy i'm not really anymore. Do I believe some it is due to personal growth? yes but some of it is due to the change in my hormones.

I didn't like the general stereotypes also. What is really hard is this is an account of Chaz's transition and not a documentary on transition in general. So I do see where this is his experience. What is hard is the fact that it does reinforce common misconceptions. Also that most people won't say "oh this is just his experience" They will lump it into a one size fits all.

I guess I don't know what the complete role of a producer is but I would think that the producer would get a say in what goes in and what doesn't go in. On his facebook "Becoming Chaz" page he is listed as the producer. You are correct in that he isn't listed as an editor but wouldn't a producer still have a fair amount of say?

My BUTCH partner has never been interested in chit-chat--So you're saying there was a time, pre-transition when your BF liked the sewing circle? *just curious.

Why doesn't Chaz work--Am I the only a-hole who doesn't get his finances and thinks that "finances" are a super-relevent part of the picture?

He had money to be an addict for 10 years and, according to the documentary he laid on the couch for a year(s) playing video games...

What does he do besides the trans-stuff?

*Again, curious.

I'm having the worst time doing quotes with my iPad. Anyways, I do prefer Lisa Ling's piece on trans individuals for "Our America". I think that was far more informative on a non-celebrity basis as to what it's like.

And OH MY God--That house he's living in. If he couldn't afford his surgery why not sell that house? Downsize like a "regular" person would choose to do.

I wouldn't care so much if this was supposed fiction but it's being billed as a documentary.

And why is his sponsor paying for his surgery? A sponsor that pays for stuff is *so* inappropriate.

Also, it's bizarre to me that Chaz has a sports-bra tan line. I have never been with any butch/transperson or otherwise that would go out in a sports bra--In the sun! I am sure that I'm not saying this right but it seems to me that there are so many incongruences with his presenting "maleness" and his ease and comfortability with his female-parts. --It's like I blinked and missed that part of the documentary.

Also, has the depression been looked at? Is the chest surgery supposed to fix the depression (lying on the couch for a couple of years seems like depression to me)? And how can you live with an addict if your sobriety is at all important to you?

And why don't these people have jobs!

...They do have cute dogs, however. (But who brings a DOG to a doctor's appointment!)

I imagine that he got a nice advance on a book deal he made when he publically announced his decision to transition. My guess is that that is probably how he intended to repay his friends for the money they loaned him for his top surgery.

I don't know what he actually does for a living, either, and like you, I've been curious about these same questions that you ask. I, normally, don't make issue about the financial affairs of others, but money is a HUGE issue and sometimes OBSTACLE to others with transitioning. If Chaz is going to hold himself up to the public eye with his transitioning process, then yes, I do think that the financial aspects of transition and his own financial circumstance, insomuch as what he does for a living (and not the details of just how much he makes at doing whatever it is he does) should be addressed. In other words, yes I think it's altogether fair to ask just what he does for a living/support himself.

To me, this is totally proper and a relevent question. Thanks for bringing it up again, Dressy. :)

Theo :bouquet:.....on the Blackberry, so please excuse any typos!!!

My partner and I saw Chaz today at a trans conference we attended. It is a conference in Philly that I attend every year for both professional and personal reasons.

Chaz mentioned how crazy insane it is the privlege that he started to feel after being read as male. He said he was invisible as a masculine female and that it is amazing how that changed after he started being read as male.

He was also taken to task by an audience member for his comments others could read as sexist in the documentary.

Transfolks also asked that he make sure to clarify with the media as often as possible that this is HIS experience.

All the things I have heard people say here, I heard said there to him.

I really liked him and found him to be very, VERY genuine. I ended up caving and bought his book and got him to sign it.

tf and I tried to video record it on her phone but the phone kept cutting out over and over again b/c it is a new phone and we couldn't figure it out. Subsequently, we have an hour of footage of short clips (we finally got it down after a while though).

She needs to get something from work next week to download it to her computer before she can upload it to youtube. I will post the many clips next week.

P.S. Was anyone else there?

I seriously considered asking him (when I was getting him to sign my book), to let me record him saying HI to the Planet, but then I thought he may get all worried we would try to use it as an advertisement.

I should have asked though...Medusa, et. al would have loved it, I am sure. Fun thing to have on the front page!

I have read nearly all the post hear,but the thing that has me wondering is,why Chaz was siting at a playstation for a year playing vidio games?I understand he was probly dealing with depresion at this point...but a whole year?I dont mean any disrespect buy any stretch of the imaganation about being in depression cause I have delt with it in my life so know its effects on anyone.Shurely with his opertunities to gert help or find something constructive to do to get past this.Being Cher's son there had to be many ways to get help or just " man up" as my son would call it.Dont get me wrong hear cause im not trying to say he didnt try it just loks like all he did was have a pity party for a while,I hear it was booze then the vidio games I herd something about maybe drugs at some point.Many of us who dont nearly have the resorces as Chaz manage to be part of life and deal with how we feel about how we build our lives as best we can.
I realise how hard it is to deal with disfunctional familes,I guarente you my family almost invented the word or shurely put it in the capitial letter bracket.
Im wrighting this thinking about all ive read hear and herd on tv shows lately.What im thinking is about so many of us who manage life with way less chanches to get where we are today but have made it anyway.Im shure I prolly pised off someone hear,again my applogies.Geting off my sope box.

Rockin, your post did not upset me. However, I can see how someone might spend a year in front of some sort of monitor zoning out. I also understand about some of us not having the option to forgetaboutit and must work to earn an income to survive.

Maybe if I was born into Chaz's situation of having more options, I may have been able to veg out, fall into my addictive patterns for extended periods of time. Money can buy a person things. I don't think it is a given because we may have money that we will know/have happiness.

I think it was actually two years the documentary said (I believe it was Jennifer who said this).

He would have been sober at this point, but sometimes the depth of depression can be so low that a person becomes immobilized. If the person has the monetary resources to "stay in that state", so to speak, it is even slower for them to move out of it b/c they do not have an external force pushing for the change.

Greyson im glad we arent at odds with my post,I understand veging out ..I have my own devils with it but in a diffrent way,for years I denied that my weight gain was cause of meds only..truth is im a foodaholic it has taken me years to admitt it and to finaly deal with it,and I do 95% of the time now..but I do have my moments.When I have those moments I acknoledge them and go do something totaly away from food.
I just wish ppl who are haveing a problem and veging out could find better ways to adjust to and with life...so much time waisted, so much time that u cant get back.

Tonight on the own chanel they are showing the doc on chaz again,this is one I havent seen yet,gonna tape it so I can rewatch it later.Its on at 7:00 central..check your time zone if u havent seen it.

I agree. I preferred "Our America" as well. I wrote a whole fucking blog rant on "Becoming Chaz." Some aspects were good, but others really irritated the hell out of me and I don't feel was representative of transguys and their transitions as a whole. And the sad part is that a lot of people who watched it are going to think he's completely representative. He counts himself a trans activist, and yet there were a lot of statements made in his doc that he should have known people would have taken as "all encompassing" as far as trans attitudes. I get it was about his personal transition and experiences and feelings, but at the same time he should have known better; that he was pretty much the first transguy to make it into mainstream television, that most people watching would have ever seen, and that would most would take his image and word as gospel.

It's good to have the visibility, but some of it isn't good visibility, imo. He acts like being an asshole and being misogynist is somehow a part of being on T and being a transguy in general...then goes and calls himself a trans activist. I dunno. I call bullshit and was kind of disappointed.

Just wanted to talk about this part of your post. I originally raised an eyebrow myself when it came to the sports bra tan lines, but then checked myself. I do know some transfolks who are not as dysphoric as others or some who are barely dysphoric at all. Some transguys might have a male identity and want to have top surgery, but don't feel the same kind of nausea around seeing or exposing their chest pre-op that others feel. We have to be careful not to put all transfolks into the same bucket, so to speak. Extreme dysphoria doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being trans. Also, I don't think transfolks should be judged on how they bind or if they bind at all, or what they happen to wear/expose etc. It's a bit like transwomen who never have bottom surgery, but who may not entirely exclude their natal sex organs during sex (though it's evidently a different experience on estrogen than without). Or transguys who are ok with using the sex organs they were born with during sex, while others like myself can't stomach the thought of doing so themselves. Everyone's different and I don't think it's possible to judge one's "transness" based on that.

I think what confused me mainly was that Chaz said that since puberty he had suffered a lot of dysphoria and still did up until his op, and that didn't seem to go with the whole tan line thing. But at the end of the day that's really his business and not mine, and all I have are my own feelings as a point of reference and not his.

Anyways, that's my two cents on the sports bra tan line issue.

I rewatched Becoming Chaz on tv this evening.

Made me think of the tough road ahead of me and how much support is needed in dealing with transition.

Chaz and Jennifer break up
 

This really dosent surprise me,I had hoped it wouldnt happen.