So I realized my post was problematic... I basically fed into a believe that queer people look a certain way and that femmes don't look not queer. Rather than delete it I'm gunna own up and leave it... I guess we all drink the koolaid from time to time.

It makes me think, I think I held a lot of femme stereotypes. I felt insecure because they look like girls I've spent my life being grouped with and feeling so apart from. I could bet hack the girl thing and I think for that reason I felt, maybe even still feel, uncomfortable. I also have the, "they are pretty, I am ugly" insecurities. Slowly I started dating them, I still feel different, but I'm learning they can find me desirable and that without the society BS the differences are enjoyable and not threatening.

I think your post was fine.

It seems to me like you are figuring out you are attracted to strong, assertive femmes (and may also match well with a femme who tends to be the more dominant one in the relationship). It seems like you have opened yourself up to seeing that the "power" in a person can come from a feminine place, not just a masculine place as we have been taught. Femme energy is extremely powerful in its own right, and when you match that with a assertive woman you will see the "hot" fireworks come out when they need to "handle shit". It is definitely different when you see it in a femme, rather than just a feminine woman. That is what you are being drawn to. Goddesses, indeed...

This is a hard world that we live in.

If we are lucky enough to find love anywhere; I think that we should take it.

No one gets to walk in our shoes but ourselves.

I love this post, especially the last part of no one gets to walk in our shoes but ourselves!

I joined a group for butch on butch, on Facebook a couple days ago. I like it so far, I'm just glad to see like minded folks, of sorts.

I just stumbled upon this thread. Looking forward to getting caught up on previous posts.

For some reason... I've been getting approached by butches lately. Its always awkward to convey to someone (subtlety or directly) that you're not interested. It feels even more so to tell someone that it's because they're butch. It feels a bit like shutting someone down before they even get out the gate. I don't like how that feels or sounds.

I like the femme energy ... and all that comes with it... that is opposite to my own masculine energy. The Ying and Yang that I find in butch/femme relationships.

So you are saying that you don't think a butch/butch can be a ying/yang deal?

I think I'm saying... I've not met a butch that had the complimentary ... which has always been opposite energy .. that I dig.

No doubt there can be different types of Ying/Yang between two people. And no doubt some people dig Ying/Ying or Yang/Yang. ;) I've just not experienced any combination that has led me towards butch women.

I understand what you mean, however not all butches ID as women.

Anyone else open to this? I am curious to see the ratio of butch/butch to butch/femme!

A few weeks ago a butch lesbian flirted with me..I felt nothing.She had short hair and no makeup and was wearing a flannel shirt,blue jeans and dr martens..basically what I wear sometimes.She had a deep voice(probably from smoking) and really beautiful deep blue eyes.Still it did nothing for me.She works at a local gas station and is always trying to give me free jo jo potatoes with my chicken order.

Now if she were a lipstick lesbian,i'd be at her mercy.

Butch/butch is amazing! I am married to a butch lesbian, and increasingly ID as butch myself after feeling tomboyish but experimenting with more femme attire and hair at various times in my adulthood. I find that experimenting with butch gender expression has made things feel hotter than ever between my wife and I. The friction of female masculinities has given us new energy and deeper connection.

Yay, yall give me hope that butch/butch is going to see more norm, in certain places!

I think this is a good way of putting it. I'm a femme that *has* met other femmes that have tripped that yin/yang dance step. And that's when I am attracted to another femme - but only then. And and also I'm attracted to non-iding tomboy types who do the same thing.

Basically I don't care what the ID is of the person anymore, I care about the yin/yang thing, some kink yin/yang suitability too, the similar values, similar humour, and respecting each others independence (as I personally define my needs around that).

So I don't think the ID matters much in that regard, it can come inn any package.

to some folks, it does matter. It did matter to me, very much up until a couple years ago, even though I started to meet more and more femmes that *had* that yang to my yin that I went "oh! hello..." over.

I still don't find certain kinds of femininity very attractive - but then, I don't find certain kinds of masculinity very attractive either - never have. So I think that's more about the type of chocolate, rather than not liking chocolate itself (really don't like milk chocolate much and can't stand white chocolate, but I go ape for dark, dark chocolate, or spicy dark. Or semi-sweet dark)

But say 10 years ago, I would have been happy to fool around with a femme but never have a relationship with one.

I think there are plenty of butches who are slowly figuring their way around this. Most of the butches I personally know have zero issue with shagging other butches, most would date other butches and half of them would have relationships with other butches whether they be women, genderqueer, or trans.

But I don't live where you do JDeer. Most of the people I'm speaking of live in Canada or the UK.

Butch/femme has been my history. For me its like "Baskin and Robbins" 31 flavors..... most folks love ice cream... but we all dont pick the same flavor..And you can savor more than one flavor

Oh dear.............:blush:

I have joined a group on facebook for butch/butch. Lets just say its quite different.

Butch/butch
 

Well I just read, I think, several years worth of discussion on this topic and I've been a butch all my life and have always been attracted to butch. I did learn one thing that surprised me though... I had no idea my 40 years of butch on butch relationships was shunned in any way. Why am I just hearing of this now??? LOL

I recall about 12 years ago.. a friend of mine was on the butch threads.. part of the mailing out group on a different site, and she was interested in a butch that was also in the group.. and they had to keep it hush as to not get kicked out of the group. Personally I think it's crazy.. we (generally speaking) are so hard on each other and ourselves.. Love is Love in my books, and if you are lucky enough to find it... embrace! enjoy! celebrate! and fuck those who can't get past their own judgements.

Brisa
 

I see Butch/Butch couples around all the time...it has been more common than you think....

My beautiful and talented femme bride is the yin to my yang, the chocolate in my peanut butter, the aroma in my roses, and ALL things that complement.

We both love it that way, our relationship has that Butch-femme energy that pops! Her feminine smells, the way she moves her body, the way she shakes out her long scrumptious red hair.

So, whatever works for you. But for us, it is most definitely the Butch/femme dynamic.

.....:goodpost:..............

Ive heard of it being frowned upon for many years. It's a shame actually because it shouldnt matter who you love, people can shove their judgements up their arse as far as im concerned.

B/b B/f
 

Also the community makes you feel unwelcome, if your b/b as well.

If you're talking about this community, I don't think that's true. The site promotes butch, femme and everything else. There are times people (may) seem intolerant but it's usually because they don't understand or are fearful. Everyone is capable of growing and changing in time.. Sometimes we just have to be patient and love them anyway.

In general, online and offline. Online yeah it's made known that it's frowned upon and feels unwelcoming. Offline I see the looks and stares as well as hearing the talk. Noone should feel unwelcome in the GLTBQI community.

J, it's funny you should say that because when i was younger i never knew b/f existed..every couple i saw was b/b and as a femme i was made to feel i was unwelcome and even told i didn't belong...so you see, meaness, indifference and ignorance..exists everywhere in different spaces and times depending..take heart it will change where you are someday..probably sooner then later..in the meantime when you get a stare, give them back a smile or a wave..you will feel better and just maybe you will make them pause and rethink :hangloose:

I date all over the spectrum. Butch, femme, ftm, mtf. I go out often and really people watch, like detailed watching. I see mannerisms, etc and know who possibly to avoid, im not worried about myself mainly the younger crowd as well as the newly out younger ones, to hopefully they wont feel unwelcome.

J, I've always thought you quite young but very confident..i wish i'd had your mad skills when i was your age..

Thank you, I'm 41 so not that young LOL

Anyways, at a young age like 8 or so, I learned from my gram to read people in different ways and being a stickler for details as well as obsessive about things, helps me decided about issues.

Seriously? That's wrong as well as ridiculous! :blink:

Yes, it is horrible and ridiculous.

I can appreciate that ... dating across the spectrum. Why not?! :koolaid:

As I sit and recollect ... my only dating femmes may have been due to the fact that that's how it was way back when. The menu in those days was UBER small and social norms, even in the LGB* community, did influence one's behavior.


*TQ hadn't been added yet. ;)

I don't discriminate when it comes to love lol

Honestly i wasnt making it about me, just using myself as an example of what I've seen and heard.... Plus i see newbies on here that have posted in this thread, i can't think how to word it, shocked maybe that b on b is frowned upon by some.

Life is WAY to short to worry about how someone identifies.....it's about finding someone who complements your life. Love is love, it should never matter how someone identifies, what color they are, how much money they make or what sex they are.

I guess call me a romantic.*shrugs*

:goodpost: