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Its easy to have a car and no insurance. I buy a car off my neighbor. I have 30 days in the state of Oklahoma to tag it. I don't need proof of insurance until I tag it. I could go 29 days without.
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I do have a question though... How do you really know if someone is being lazy or as you say just stupidity? And how do you know if it is in fact their fault? Honestly - We can assume many things and by making such assumptions, people are hurt. What constitutes poor choices? And who are we to judge, they are poor choices? And why is it based on how you feel? Could your feelings be wrong, based on bias or wrong information? I believe this is how we get in trouble in this society - we make life changing calls for people, based on our own emotions and logic - we can certainly be skewed. Julie |
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These are not my photos, but they resemble and look, like many of the people I saw when I was down there.
This give s you a good feel for what and who is there: portraits of people occupying Wall Street This is also good... 14 Reasons People are Occupying Wall Street I have to go to work now. I am lucky that I have a job. No health Insurance, and no raise for over 10 years, but its a job.... I know so many people, falling through cracks..They are no longer cracks, they are fissures.. These aren't people that didn't work, or that did drugs, or misbehaved in general.. Just ordinary working people, that are now homeless.. and trying really hard to find work .. It just doesn't exist .. I don't have time to go point by point ,but 1 ) Bankruptcies due to health problems, is NOT limited to those without Insurance, quite the contrary. 2 ) the idea that anyone can afford some kind of Insurance is ludicrous, and no way fits the reality., ..I really have to go, maybe later.. |
Income inequality in the US
This is a great article about income inequality in the US:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html It's really worth reading, and illustrates how wealth is being squeezed out of the middle class and into the hands of the top 1%. |
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Brother, I see your point entirely, but I also see how reality works for many folks, too. I'm not going to pick you apart for your view. I think what it all boils down to is this. Most folks make choices based on the best they can do, at the time they have to do it in, with what they have to work with. Sometimes, a person can't always make the "best" choice that another person would agree with. Most of the time, it's entirely dependent on what you have to work with that your choices hinge on. There have been times in my life when I've had to make some rather unsavory choices, and perhaps someone else might have viewed what I chose to be a "wrong" choice, but I had nothing else to work with and few options to choose from. I ended up making a few choices that I didn't even agree with, and would have rather *not* done, ordinarily, but I did what I felt I had to do, with what I had to work with. I think there are a lot of folks out there who are in some pretty desperate situations, and none of their options are what those of us, viewing it from the outside, would choose, but it is what it is for these folks. Who judges another's choices from the outside?? How do we fairly do that?? How do we know what another's priorities are in their situations?? We don't. We've *all* had tough times, at one time or another. It's the human experience. Sometimes I shake my head when I see someone do something that I, personally, might think as being a "bad choice", but I seldom am in a position to know exactly what that person's situation is, and what their options truly are. For instance, as someone who has never had children of my own (because I didn't *choose* to have them), I could look at someone with 2-5 kids, who is living on $20K/yr (or less), and think to myself "Dayyyum, keep yer legz SHUT!!!", but you know, that person may have, as a priority in their lives, a desire for a (large??) family. Now, some/most of us might see that and think the same thing I think, but the reality for that person with the kids is that family, and having kids is *the* most important thing in their lives. They may or may not have been raised by their parents to have this as their priority, or they may have been raised in a large family with the same mentality. Their take on it is, "We'll have the family we want and we'll somehow make it, the same as my parents did when I was born. We'll get by somehow. We'll make it work." Someone like me, however, sees that as a piss poor choice in life. I don't share those priorities, so I have very little empathy for someone who just keeps "poppin' 'em out" with no idea about how they're going to provide for these kids. Still, do I get to judge?? Do I have a right to condemn?? I don't really care for folks like that to be driving my taxes up with an increased demand on public assistance. On the other hand, I collect disability from the federal government, based on the fact that I developed a severe health problem during my time in military service. Taxpayers pay me a rather good check every month, yet I'm able to still work (and I have a full time job) as I am able to. You know, that fact alone pisses a LOT of folks off. Thing is, they don't see or feel the pain I do as I move through my day with chronic severe pain. I "suck it up" most of the time and I don't complain about it. There's no need to. It is what it is, but I've made a *choice* to keep going and cope with this pain in order to fulfill my own priority of staying "useful" for as long as I can, as much as I can. These other folks who might want to stand in judgment of my choice don't know my personal circumstance, or might not understand my priority of needing to maintain "usefulness" as long as I can. For me, it's not money. My priority is, at the end of the day, what I think of myself. My self esteem is very much linked to my sense of "usefulness". So, who gets to judge me?? Who knows exactly how much I hurt, and what I go through to just be able to live MY priority....my need to be useful?? That's important to me, just as having that big family and "figuring it out as we go/living hand to mouth/living with public assistance". One person's priority might be someone else's view of a "poor choice". Who gets to judge?? I've had this discussion many times, over the years, with folks who have all sorts of different viewpoints. My conclusion is this......none of us have a right to judge others' choices. We're all doing the best we can, with what we have, with what we have to do it with, at the time we have to do it. My .02 :winky: ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
People have been socially hypnotized and manipulated by the great white lie. Their unpreparedness and ignorance is due to the fact that they believed in this "One Nation under God" bullshit. They ignored the facts and solicited the propaganda because they were lied to. They believed that social security would take care of them. It's not their fault.
As mentioned in other post most live pay check to pay check. It's a constant struggle just to stay afloat so it's no wonder they long to escape even if it's a form of sabotage. We are all victims of this trap. My son wants to go to DC and I'm going to get him a ticket. He wants to stand up for his daughter's future. I am proud of him. I am worried but I am proud. I wondered why the fuck it took so long for people to actually do something. You are witness to a revolution we can not allow it to die. There are tons of people out there that STILL don't know what's going on or why. If you can't be there or financially support them then spend some time posting on facebook or anywhere you can giving people information and getting them proactive to do the same. If you live close to a city protesting find out how you can send blankets, jackets, sweat shirts, water, anything. Some people were unprepared- lol- Yep, sometimes passion rules! |
JAGG,
Poor choices? Maybe I should have refused a severance package from my teamster job and maybe one day they would have eventually called me back. Which would have been great had they called me in for 4 hours of work because I would then be paid for 40 hours .The weeks they don't call you in, you get nothing. Starting over today is not like it was ,starting over 5 or 10 years ago, I can assure you of that . At 45 ,I may have been hired for jobs that now wont hire a 50 year old. I will be fine .I know this somehow but there are people out there who are 60 and people with less skills who wont be hired for anything but part time minimum wage jobs (if they find work at all) They drive a hooptie and decide feeding their kids takes priority over fucking car insurance. I agree with them,it is. It's like having no compassion for someone with a back injury until you have one yourself ,its impossible to really relate maybe until you live it. It's very easy to judge poor people until you become one. I used to do the exact same thing maybe not to the level of your recent posts but close. |
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Case in point....the family who owned this house before us. They bought it 9 years ago, refinanced it five times, took the money and bought boats, 4 wheelers, fishing gear, an RV, cars, etc. By the time they left, after not making a single mortgage payment in over a year, they owed 3 times what the house could sell for. The bank took the hit...sold it...and now I'm paying that smaller mortgage. Honestly...their choices. I wouldn't make them. I prefer to keep my living expenses reasonable enough that I could pay them on a bartenders salary because, as you say....we can all be there, or have been there. I've been there. I dug myself into financial holes that took me years to dig out of and cost me dearly. I (mostly) learned my lesson. So....they can refinance their house, bet on "pie in the sky" real estate speculation, and buy a mountain of toys that I couldn't afford even with the job I have now. When they left, they took the toys. They also stole the solar pool heaters off the roof, but that's another issue. They walked out on about $200,000 in debt....and we are all paying it off for them....while they still have their toys. That just bothers me, and I don't think it's right. To Linus' (and others) point...I have no idea how many people in foreclosure were like the previous owners here, and how many got caught in a bad situation they couldn't help....losing a job, health problems, etc. I don't think we should ignore the difference though. No, it's not easy to figure out who deserves help and who doesn't....but dang....I work hard and I can't afford a boat...yet the previous owners of this house still have one, while we all pay the higher fees and interest that the bank will be charging for years to make back that $200,000. |
She who's 5 kids equates I never shut my legs
I often wonder why women get that whole keep your legs shut cast on them when they have more than the "right" amount of kids, why doesn't the other person HELPING make these children get told wrap that dick in a knot?? Why do we as women get shit upon over and over for giving birth to a child that was not a fucking immaculate conception.
FFS check your sexism and mysoginy at the fucking front door.. |
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As for the differences (unless this has changed), I know in Canada if you quit your job and there is no justifiable reason for it (e.g., health, wanting to do a significant career change, etc.) you don't get employment insurance. That said, I do believe that basic health care (e.g., to cover things like accidents, etc.) should be available. A healthy workforce and a reduction in stress makes for a far happier workforce. As a tangent, my biggest beef right now is the banks charging rates well above those of those cheque cashing places. For all intents and purposes, banks are a form of legalized loan sharks. Interest rates are at less than 1% and mortgages are less than 4% (for 30 years). And yet, credit cards have fees that range from 25%+. I've never missed a payment and always pay more than minimum and yet, it got raised (I argued it back down but seriously!) |
[QUOTE=Linus;433315]A question, then: how many people do you think, who are currently in the midst of foreclosure, have had foreclosure, are out of work, have no savings, in dire need of help and have none, are those who made poor or "stupid" choices?[/QUOTE
You can pick a million and one situations and say that's an exception, what about that person. I have a huge problem with people run credit cards up and want there debts forgiven. Who read sign and accept the terms of a mortgage they know they can't afford. Just because you are approved for 175,000 dollars doesn't mean you can afford it. Then when they fall behind go into foreclosure they want to be bailed out. That is not fair to the people who bought the 80,00 dollar house in an older not as nice neighborhood without a pool granite countertops, because they knew they couldn't afford it at that time. I'm not talking someone who has a brain tumor removed and is brain damaged from it. Not talking about diabled. Or something toatally out of your control. |
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But that said, to me, there is a point where even the "poor choices" becomes something out of their control. Do we always say "You sucked at choices and we will never help you"? Is there a point where we say "You made a poor choice but still need help. Let's see what we can do?" (this questions are for everyone) |
[QUOTE=Linus;433315]A question, then: how many people do you think, who are currently in the midst of foreclosure, have had foreclosure, are out of work, have no savings, in dire need of help and have none, are those who made poor or "stupid" choices?[/QUOTE
You can pick a million and one situations and say that's an exception, what about that person. I have a huge problem with people run credit cards up and want there debts forgiven. Who read sign and accept the terms of a mortgage they know they can't afford. Just because you are approved for 175,000 dollars doesn't mean you can afford it. Then when they fall behind go into foreclosure they want to be bailed out. That is not fair to the people who bought the 80,00 dollar house in an older not as nice neighborhood without a pool granite countertops, because they knew they couldn't afford it at that time. I'm not talking someone who has a brain tumor removed and is brain damaged from it. Not talking about diabled. Or something toatally out of your control. |
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Totally and absolutely agree....and that's one of the most frustrating things (to me) in this whole situation. People who got lied to by predatory lenders, people who lost their job and got caught in a market with no jobs to be had....they're all suffering because so many speculators got greedy and then called foul. And...yea....me too on the credit card thing. Frustrating as hell. Banks, I believe, need some serious regulation....and we need to organize a heck of a lot more credit unions that are non-profits, run cooperatively by members, who keep the costs of borrowing down. Banks, as they exist now, ARE loan sharks in my view...and it's disgusting. |
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The packet of information is being put together now for child support enforcement...and no doubt he'll squeal when he has his tax returns taken, wages garnisheed, drivers license and passport pulled if he doesn't comply, etc. No doubt, I'll be the greedy bitch and he'll tell everyone how unfairly he's being treated. He'll try to play the victim in all of this. What he'll ignore is the total responsibility I've taken for the last 14 years of food, allowances, clothes, housing, medical insurance, dental bills, college fund, glasses every year, school incidentals, vacations, etc. No doubt he'll consider it horribly unfair. Poor baby. Having children is a huge responsibility...on the part of both parents. |
Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.
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Every time I've gone to the bank for pre-approval on a mortgage, they've approved me for about double the amount that I personally felt comfortable paying and knew I could afford. Is that their responsibility or mine? Maybe what we need is to have more heavily regulated truth in lending, and more education about personal finances and money management in the schools. Just thinking aloud here....not really having an answer. I understand the feeling of "screw this, I'm never going to get even on this mortgage" and the urge to walk away on the part of people who bought at the peak of the market. But what about those (like this house's previous owners) who bought low, refinanced like mad to play, and then walked away? For me, those are two very different scenarios. ETA: Grant, I totally agree with one thing you mentioned and then forgot to include it :) In my opinion, the biggest speculators in this real estate disaster were the banks. They made loans that were absolutely ridiculously inflated, and fed the real estate bubble all along. They, of all people, should have known better....and been saner...in both the amounts they loaned on property, and on the types of loans they made. |
Jagg,
I just want to say that when my ex-wife and I got together I had 2 credit cards and a total of $300 debt between them. By the time we split up, between my 2 cards we were about $12,000 in debt. There are many reasons, part of which is that she wanted to spend spend spend and we argued about it, and I unfortunately gave in way too much because I hadn't learned to stand up for myself back then. She was also someone who would never back down from an argument, and had I not backed down our argument would just go on and on. I gave in because she wore me down. My bad. Then she got laid off from her job in the mortgage dept at B of A in Concord, CA. That was in 2003. I was the only one working, and I made about $12-13 per hour. She went on unemployment, and our monthly income plummeted. I sold my Harley to pay bills. We had an apartment, a kid, and a car payment. We also were paying COBRA for my wife's healthcare since losing her job, which was 100s of dollars more per month. We ended up getting behind on our bills and paying for basic things like groceries with my credit cards. Her credit was so bad that she didn't have any credit cards. She refused to allow me to ask my parents for financial help. Well, I say allow because that was about fight that there was no way for me to win. She was verbally and emotionally abusive to me, and very controlling. When I finally left her after years of taking this abuse, she decided she wasn't going to pay her half of my credit card debt. She said that would count for my child support. Because we had missed payments, my rate was 30%. Before I had been with my ex-wife, I had excellent credit and was responsible with my money. I hadn't anticipated that things would end up this way. I had mistakenly thought that she would get another job soon and we would climb out of this financial hole. Instead, she decided not to look for another job and just take some classes to gain some more skills. She stayed on unemployment for a year. It wasn't until the end of that year that I left her, because she couldn't get by w/o my income. We had a child. I wasn't comfortable leaving them w/o an income that would sustain their basic needs. When I left my ex-wife, I was making $13/hr and couldn't afford to pay much more than the minimum payments, but I always paid a little more just to try to get it paid down. I had a small dive of an apartment and no car payments. I got by ok, but at the rate I was going, it would have taken me decades to pay it off. I was faithful with my payments. I was never late or missed any of them. I called my credit card companies asking them to lower my rates. B of A told me I had to make all my payments on time for 6 months and then they would decrease it. 6 months came and went and I was still being charged 29.99%. Same with my Citibank card. No matter how many payments I made on time, neither bank would lower my rates. My parents ended up paying off my cards after a few years, because they saw how ridiculous my situation was. That is how a lot of people end up with piles of debt they have no way to pay back. Yes, you could say I am at fault because of the choices I made. However, I wasn't able to anticipate how it would all turn out. I was in a bad marriage to someone I shouldn't have been with. I didn't see all the red flags ahead of time, because I had grown up with years of abuse and wasn't able to see those red flags. I was naive about a lot of things. I learned a lot of difficult lessons. I guess that is part of growing up. I now have zero credit card debt. I never use my cards under any circumstances. If I want something I save for it and if I can't save for it, then I don't need it. I am on disability so I am very poor. People get into a lot of debt for a variety of reasons. I think it's unfair to assume that you know all the ins and outs of a situation just on the face of it. People are human and make mistakes. That doesn't mean that the system isn't stacked against them and inherently unfair. It is. |
Oh, wait a sec and let me clarify this.....
I didn't mean that *I* would look at someone and think "Keep yer legz shut". I was, well, using "myself" in the vernacular way, to illustrate how I've heard people talk about that kind of a situation. To further clarify *my* own personal point of view, birth control is, to my knowledge, available for both males and females. I certainly don't believe that women should bear the brunt of pregnancy prevention over the responsibility of men to do the same thing!!! I think it's a matter of personal responsibility for both, in the issue of consensual sexual relations!! You know, I just try to not take an opinion when I see what I perceive to be gross irresponsibility in a person's choices. I don't walk in their shoes, so I don't think I get to judge, because just looking from the outside at a stranger (say, in the grocery store) I don't know their circumstance, or their priorities in life. I am, however, *very* human and I have to catch myself from making judgments. I'll own that!!! I just don't think that's always fair to do that to everyone who makes what I think is a poor choice. Oh no, birth control is *everyone's* responsibility. Now, things like rape and such are a totally different matter.....entirely different. ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
l
I am going tell you my experience in realestate and forecloures. You read a story about a person. Who got sick or injuried house is in foreclosure and you think we should bail him out. I own an investment business. We buy houses that have been forclosed on . I get to see these cases up close and in person I know the details of the reasons why the house forclosed. I have been doing this for 9 years now.you can say I lack empathy, I say you are naive and lack experience and facts. Here is a real truelife case. Family with 2 kids dad gets hurt can't work. He is a welder hurt his back. Wife works teaches 3rd grade. He can't work they fall behind house goes into forclosure. 3 months later bank takes possestion. They still occupy home. Free for 3 months now . They have at least 7 different notices to vacate they don't . 5 months later bank trys to sell it at auction. We buy it. 8 months they are there for free, we knock on the door to inform them we bought their house they should have been out 8 months. We talk and agree on a plan for them to move out they are usually pretty understanding. We actually pay them 250 dollars to be moved out within the agreed time frame. His wife has a brand newDodge Dakota less than a year old. He had. Dodge ram less than 2 yrs old. And a minivan 5 years old. They were saving it for the 15yr old when he learns to drive. Nice guy we talked about everything he showed me around. He had a 55 in led tv he was. Proud to show me that all its features. And surround sound. Then he shows me the garage where he has 7 dirt bikes. He and his 2 kids, love playing in the mud. 7 dirt bikes? 3 new cars? Really? I wish I had a 55in led with suround sound.
You want to bail this poor guy out? He can't work bad back . Medical condition not his fault long term unemployed , fore closed on , he fits all your criteria. You think he is an acception to the rule? I will tell you he is not. You hear his story in the news, you don't know the facts just the sad story of an innocent family kicked out,into the cold because of unforesseen medical problems. I flipped about 21 houses all but 4 fit your criteria. Out of those 17 I will tell you only 1 fit the real picture, the one the media paints . I will give you more examples later on. |
Angela Davis- both parents college educated, professionals as well as her father a business owner. She is a graduate of an Ivy League university. And a professor.
Caesar Chavez- his father owned not only a grocery store, but a large ranch in AZ. During the Great Depression, their land was lost and never recovered by the family. Thus- how Chavez began working as a migrant worker. His roots are middle class. This is a story of many in the US during that time period. Joan Baez (not just a folk singer)- father was one of our leading physicists (co-invented the x-ray microscope) and served as a diplomat for the US in UNESCO. His family was highly educated in seminary as was her mother’s family, originally from Scotland. Alex Haley- both parents highly educated, his father a professor of agriculture and his mother a teacher. Very much a middle-class New York family. And well, Haley is one of our most brilliant minds and writers. There are many civil rights movement leaders of color that did not come from poor backgrounds and were middle-class. A pet peeve of an African American man I dated in college during the 70’s was that “white people immediately assume we are all poor and from the same kinds of backgrounds“- (paraphrasing). A central theme throughout the social movements in the 1960’s and 70’s is that college and university campuses served as fertile grounds for free speech and political activism. Access to higher education has always been slanted toward middle or upper middle-class people, even among minorities. Many did find access that were from very desperate backgrounds, but not all. After JFK’s initial “affirmative action” executive order in the early 60’s, doors opened to many that it had shut on previously. If you go back and look at the suffrage movement, you will find a very distinct middle and upper middle class- and very white grouping of leaders. Although, take a look at African American women in the 1800’s that were part of social movements in the US. The other thing that amazes me about these conversations is that are many of us in the age group of the 60’s and 70’s activism and were there! I had many conversations with “sisters” & “brothers” telling me that most of the people they wanted to represent had no way of taking to the streets because of their socio-economic class. But, this is only my story from one region of the US at that time. One of my pet peeves here is that so often, one or two sentences are quoted from a post and flamed. The rest of one’s comments and thoughts are left out. One reason, I quote entire posts so that the entire context is available for other’s to look at. I do this even with lengthy posts because I don’t think is fair to “cherry pick” someone’s post and then take aim. Also, there are some members that take the time to explain where they are coming from and I think I ought to honor their entire process. It looks like the thread is getting back to the OP’s initial ideas for discussion- good because this is really an important thing going on. |
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As a post-Greatest Generation group of Boomers, Gen X'ers, Gen Y'ers, etc., we're used to "good times" and all of these wonderfully new gadgets, gizmos, cell phones, IPads, E-Readers, whathaveyou. More specifically, we've bought into the idea that we (generic "we") have absolute entitlement to these and that we should have them, even if it means going financially out on a limb for them and buying them with funds we don't have now (the credit card phenomenon)!! The media and sales/marketing has conditioned us to believe that. It's been pushed on us. At the same time, no one has really taught us, as a group, how money works. I recently read the book, "Rich Dad/Poor Dad" and it really hit me how even the best and most money-savy of our parents/elders never really taught us how to handle money responsibly. Oh yes, I think we've all gotten such vague direction as "don't spend more than you make", and "pay your bills on time" and, "save your money", but how many people here have honestly been taught, by their parents, or even their educational systems, how to buy a house?? What about how interest actually works, and what the various types of loans are out there?? How many people, before they entered those mortgage contracts that were sold to them by predatory lenders, took the trouble to educate themselves about the home buying process?? Did anyone ever teach these same folks to sit down with a pencil and paper (and a calculator) to do simple addition and subtraction so they could figure out for themselves how much they could spend and how much they should save?? How about figuring out a simple household budget?? Not many, let me tell you. Money matters have gotten far more complicated, over the years, and education about these things just hasn't happened. That's how we've all been hoodwinked. If you dumb people down, you can take advantage of them. Simple as that. This is one big thing I am so angry about, in recent years. This country has been systematically dismantling our educational system and it's been happening right under our noses, while we're distracted with games, gadgets, television, too damned much entertainment and too few useful financial education programs in our schools. Does anyone remember the old Economics classes we used to have in the 60's, 70's and 80's?? Those have gone nearly entirely away. Those classes, for those who can't remember them, and those who never heard of them, were the ones that taught us how to balance a checkbook, how to make a simple household budget and how to calculate interest and use a basic expenses spreadsheet. We're just not teaching our kids these skills anymore and now an entire generation(s) has been the victim, wholesale, of financial swindling. This is criminal, but we allowed it to happen!!!!! No fucking wonder our children are afraid to face the world when they graduate from our high schools these days!!! Where is the fucking outrage??? :rant: This entire financial crisis, worldwide, is the simple result of our being completely and totally distracted by the commercial world, while the carpet was slowly being yanked out from under us. We let it happen. IMHO, there's nothing left to do now but revolt. I think another American Revolution is on the new horizon. ~Theo~ :bouquet: |
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Real story. My cousin married a very successful top mortgage director guy of some sort. Six figure income, things were great ,they bought a home ,had two kids. Several years later he loses his job. His youngest has severe autism and requires 24/7 care (which requires my cousin to be a stay at home mom) Now their oldest (12 years old) has been diagnosed with diabetes and has to have daily insulin shots and medical testing to get her all balanced enough to attend school. They gave up their two car's which required payments for two that are paid for. They need two because driving around in the car sometimes is the only thing they can do to calm their autistic child when he's having a rough patch. He has been working 6 days a week for the last two years just so his family can have medical insurance. They have defaulted on their mortgage and are still there two years later. For free, as you call it. All of their toys and fancy shit was sold when the youngest was diagnosed. I think you lack a great deal of empathy and you can keep coming up with loser stories who you think deserve to be homeless all day long if thats what makes you feel better. Some of us are not talking stuff, we are talking about survival. Go buy your big tv now while things are great for you .That may not always be the case. |
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What do you do when you have kids who are ill, who are disabled, who need you there 24/7? You do the best you can....and one of the biggest failures of our society (I think) is that there aren't enough supports available for people who find themselves in this kind of a situation. I don't know what the answer is....but a better health care system, better childcare supports (especially for kids with health issues or special needs...who frequently can't access "regular" child care)...certainly couldn't hurt. |
And this one gets it.
Dear Mr. :
Thank you for taking the time to contact me about campaign finance reform. I appreciate hearing from you about this issue. On January 21, 2010, the Supreme Court issued a ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission that overturns long-standing campaign finance laws and prohibits the government from banning political spending by corporations in candidate elections. The Court’s 5-4 decision held unconstitutional parts of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) and the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (BCRA), (sometimes referred to as the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law). It also overturned two precedents: Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce, which upheld restrictions on corporate spending to support or oppose political candidates, and McConnell v. Federal Election Commission, which upheld the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law’s restriction on campaign spending by corporations and unions. According to the Court’s majority, restricting corporations from directly participating in elections violates the right to free speech guaranteed under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. By holding that corporations have the same constitutional right to free speech as individuals, this ruling represents a fundamental doctrinal shift. Although the full extent of the ruling’s impact is not yet known, this is a significant decision that many believe could reshape the political landscape by increasing the power of corporate special interests and the role of money in politics. Those with the deepest pockets, such as Wall Street, Big Oil and insurance companies, may have a greater influence in future elections. President Obama, some Members of Congress and legal scholars have criticized the ruling as overreaching and setting a dangerous precedent. Others believe the ruling accurately interprets the First Amendment. I strongly believe that our democracy hinges on fair and transparent elections, and I will continue to advocate for limiting the influence of corporate special interests in politics. In response to the Citizens United decision, S. 3295, the Democracy Is Strengthened by Casting Light On Spending in Elections (DISCLOSE) Act was introduced in the Senate on April 30, 2010. The DISCLOSE Act, of which I was a cosponsor, would place controls on the flood of special interest money in elections by requiring new disclaimers on all television advertisements that are funded by special interests, including an appearance by the CEO of the corporation running the ad. It would also prevent government contractors and corporate beneficiaries of TARP from spending money on elections. Moreover, the DISCLOSE Act would close loopholes and prevent foreign-controlled entities from spending unlimited amounts of money through their US-based subsidiaries and require all corporations and advocacy groups that make political expenditures to establish easy-to-track campaign accounts. On both July 27 and September 23, a revised version of the bill, S. 3628, came before the full Senate for consideration. In both instances, I joined many of my colleagues in voting to proceed with consideration, but the measure did not garner the necessary 60 votes. In order for this legislation to be considered by the full Senate, it must be reintroduced in the 112th Congress, which began on January 5, 2011. As always, I appreciate your views, thoughts and concerns as they assist me in understanding what is important to the people of Pennsylvania. Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future about this or any other matter of importance to you. If you have access to the Internet, I encourage you to visit my web site, http://casey.senate.gov. I invite you to use this online office as a comprehensive resource to stay up-to-date on my work in Washington, request assistance from my office or share with me your thoughts on the issues that matter most to you and to Pennsylvania. Sincerely, Bob Casey United States Senator |
http://www.occupytogether.org/
This is kind of a central hub for the various Occupy branches of the movement. |
11 Things You Can Do to Help the 'Occupy Wall Street' Movement
This is an older article but still has some good stuff:
http://www.alternet.org/economy/1524...'_movement |
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When you are done rereading my post, tell me where in my post I said we shouldn't help people of catastrophic events, also show me where it says I wouldn't help a neighbor in need. "Maybe I will find out one day and my tune will change"? Is that YOUR attempt to invite me in, and school me, on what you think I should have done to be more like you? Yes somethings in life one can't be prepared with money or planning alone, somethings become more expensive than you could have ever planned for. But some can!!! I am saying when you can , you should. If you opt not to it's your choice, but don't look for people to bail you out when you make the wrong choice. It's not fair to people who opted to sacrifice new shoes, a new car, a plasma tv, pack their lunch not eat out everyday, to put money aside to pay for extra insurance. It's wrong to shrug your personal responsibility and expect others to pick up your slack, when your shrugging causes you dismay. |
[QUOTE=Julie;433282]True Story!
A friend of mine died yesterday. He was diagnosed with full blown AIDS 2 years ago. He lost his job because of illness, yet managed to find another one - less paying and without insurance. He could not go to the doctors for general care (just for his aids) and a year ago was diagnosed with Colon Cancer. He was at risk of losing his car - he could not make the car payments, which having a car might not seem like a lot - but it meant, he could not get his HIV treatment. No mass transit where he lived. We as a community raised a few thousand dollars to try and get him on his feet. He died from a massive infection. He would NEVER have become so ill, had they found the colon cancer earlier, but he did not have insurance. He could not get help. It was too late for him. He died because of our country - our country killed him. Julie, I agree 100 percent. Our health care system sucks . The way we treat our elderly and disabled including terminal illnesses, is a crying shame!!!!!!!! It's pathetic that an elderly person has to decide whether to buy their meds or food for the month. We all know alot of the problems would be easy to fix. Another good reason for these protests. |
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I think the point is being missed. No, you aren't funding the programs for this particular guy, when in fact this particular guy abused the system. The programs are there for the people like Dude's friend, and Julie's friend, a me and any other person who is in true need. There will always be the few who abuse the system, but throwing out the baby with the bath water doesn't seem very empathetic now does it.
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If I had people calling me ignorant and lacking empathy I would try to be a bit more teachable. So, no you and I are nothing alike. I'm cool with that. |
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ayor-says.html
I can't help but think back to what mayors and other politicians said in the 60's and 70's about demonstrations. It took them all awhile to understand that people were taking a stand on things that deeply effect their lives. I have been thinking about how these deomstrations are not on college campuses but the financial centers and willbe much more disruptive. But, I don't see how the protestors can make their point any other way and finally be heard. |
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Now let me guess what's gong happen. Someone is going to read this post. Get pissed and come up with some crazy scenerio that has nothing to do with what I am talking about then try to accuse me of meaning something I never even came close to thinking . Like this , well JAGG what if a steel mill blows up and 50 houses catch on fire, or what if a train derails and spews toxic liquid into a neighborhood, or a gas line explodes and burns up a nursing home, are you going make those people pay to be rescued too. Lets hope your house never catches on fire you never need to be rescued. It's clear you have never had any thing bad ever happen to you and you don't know what it's like to have your arms and legs cut off and need a paramedic. My 3rd cousin didnt tie his shoes one day and tripped on his lace fell down the steps broke his hip had to call a Paramedic are you saying that's his fault and he has to pay for his bad choice?????? I guess you would just leave him there to die. Because he didn't make the same choice you would have, he is just plain old fashion stupid and deserves to die. I think you're the stupid one. :| |
What if JAGG, he were 80 years old and didn't have a car and couldn't find anyone to take him out of harms way. Sound familiar? Katrina anyone? Not everyone has a choice as you put it, and some choices are not really a choice at all.
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I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. But you could save money on diapers that way. :happyjump: |
:seeingstars::seeingstars::seeingstars::seeingstar s::seeingstars:
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