i boycotted Colorado to the best of my ability back when amendment 2 was presented. for a person that enjoys what Colorado has to offer winter and summer i frequented the state during vacation time. i am sure there are many people here that remember that boycott that the gay community organized back then and i also can remember people in our community moving from there. the gay bashing was out of hand and it was all over the news. do ya'll remember that???

i will boycott Arizona to the best of my ability.

as far as trying to compare the Ohio Easton area take over to the legislation that was created by the citizens and lawmakers of Arizona it really doesn't seem logical. it feels reachy.

i am never a fan of the "pile up" accusations. it seems to me if someone boasts an unpopular opinion then they should be able to deal with others coming in here and stating what they think about it without judgment from the poster or the posters supporters.

Kats,

Is it Americans who believe that their country is "empathetic and compassionate" (your last sentence in post 866)?

I have to say that, as a Canadian, those are two descriptors that no one I know would ever attach to the USA.

Many people around the world are enraged at the LACK of empathy and compassion demonstrated by some USA policies and laws -- especially when it comes to immigration, war, poverty, social issues, and equality in general.

Well, now you are referring to citizens of your country as empathetic and compassionate and not the country itself which is a much different sentiment than in your previous post, #866.

As for going through the process with your ex-husband of USA immigration, at least you were allowed the process.

I am denied the ability to immigrate, work and live with my husband--in the USA--based on the unjust laws of your country.

He's my husband, not partner.

Whether or not it was easy, you had the right to sponsor your ex for immigration. My husband does not have that same right.



As for the "empathetic and compassionate" -- your earlier post posited that the USA -- as a country -- is characterized by these qualities--your next post said the people have these characteristices--that is quite a difference and makes me wonder what qualities of the USA actually DO demonstrate these traits when the opposite appears to be true in so many of its policies!

I hope this clarified my earlier response.

I think I misread your question regarding my earlier post, so I edited my response quite a bit to, hopefully, clarify myself; I am confused that someone from our community--especially--would consider the USA "empathetic" and "compassionate" when so many of its laws/policies are in direct opposition to these qualities and have, actually, directly and negatively impacted our lives.

Just to let you know, it isn't just same sex marriages that have immigration issues. My husband is trans, and access to immigration rights are not a given based on transition.

//sorry for getting a bit off topic, AZ immig thread!//

Since you are half-native American (how you pulled off blue-eyed with one Native American parent given that the blue-eyed allele is not endemic to the native population is an issue I'll leave for another time) let me pose this question to you:

You are driving down the street. One of Tucson's finest pulls you over and, given that you are half native and thus would share SOME phenotype traits with the people who are the visual targets of these laws, demands that you do more than just prove you have a license to drive but that you were born in this state. How do you feel? You don't have your birth certificate with you (I'm not blue-eyed and, as far as I know, am nothing more interesting than simply a black American but I don't carry MY birth certificate with me, do you?) and so he then starts to presume you are in the country without proper documentation. NOW are you disturbed by the implications of this law?

One can make the statement that the people of Arizona elected the governor who has become the face of the proponents of this law AFTER she had told lies about beheadings in the desert as a means of justifying this laws draconian tenor without 'bashing' the law. One can boycott the state--as much as that is possible--without 'bashing' anyone.

Okay, here we get into a problem. Let's be clear, the 'outsiders' here are anyone whose ancestors were NOT here 2000 years ago. The relevant regions around the border have been inhabited since 9000 BCE (11,000 years ago). The people who are being termed 'illegals' are the descendants of those people. The border between Mexico and the United States has only existed since the mid-19th century. This is not enough time for the population north of the border to have diverged from that south of the border. This means that the two populations are going to be both genetically and phenotypically identical to one another. The problem, as I see it, is that this law targets American citizens who happen to share a phenotype with people who live one mile south of the border.

Laws have consequences. Arizona passed this law and now Hispanics are leaving the state (a quite sensible response if you ask me--I know that if Oregon passed a similar law targeting blacks, I'd be looking for the exits because this kind of thing *never* turns out well). This may be what the proponents of this law, its supporters and apologists believe that they want. However, I think that in a year or two, they may discover that the law of unintended consequences is as irresistible as gravity. Right now, many may be saying "and good riddance" as Hispanic families drive away. However, each family that leaves AZ is money flowing out of AZ. Those are sales tax dollars that aren't being collected. Those are dollars that are not being spent at restaurants, supermarkets, gas stations, and convenience stores. At last estimate ~100,000 Hispanics have left the state since this law has passed. That is going to start to add up. What's more, these things tend to have feedback loops which play out like this:

Law gets passed, so Hispanics leave the state. This means their money leaves the state with them. So businesses have to lay off some people. The layoffs get blamed on Hispanics who remain in the state so some *new* punitive law is passed. So more Hispanics leave the state. Which causes more economic hardship, which gets blamed on the remaining Hispanics, who leave the state, which causes yet more hardship...

I may be wrong about this. It may play out differently but right now, it appears to be playing out more or less in this fashion. Be careful for what you wish or vote in favor of, you just might get it.

Cheers
Aj

The very same thing could be said about, say, the states south of the Mason-Dixon line prior to the end of Jim Crow. Not *everyone* in the state supported those laws--the 30 - 50 percent of those states that were black, for instance, largely did not support segregation laws targeting them. Not all of the whites in those states supported those laws. NEITHER of that actually matters all that much on a day-to-day basis. Precisely how much good does it do to know that not all people in the state support SB 1070 if one is legally driving down the street, gets pulled over for a broken tail light and is then asked for their birth certificate and, when it turns out one is not in possession of it, one is detained? In that moment, as you are put into the police car, how much do you think it matters to know that not everyone supports the law? The law is in force, you are feeling the full effect of the law, do you think it helps to know that your neighbor doesn't support it?

Cheers
Aj

Well the drug cartel will probabbly still be there, along with the slaves her campaign contributors have...So the gov and her cronies won't run out of those cushie gov. prison jobs. I am being treated like a terrorist and illegal now and I don't have to have the look. The TSA protocols will probabbly spread to trains and buses, and I'll need a license to grow tomatoes in my own backyard soon.

I'm gonna add my $.02 even though I hadn't planned on coming back here. I live in Tucson, AZ and raise my daughters in a co-parenting situation (with my ex-husband) and will continue to do so until they are both graduated from high school. I have lived here since January of 1995 and have seen many changes in this once very quiet pueblo town. While most of Tucson is very liberal (as opposed to Phoenix which tends to be rather conservative) we do have pockets of very uber-conservative, republican, religious right communities...aka: the Jan Brewer/Jesse Kelly pack.

In my 15+ years here I have noticed one major theme present when grappling with border/immigration/human rights issues, and that is fear based tactics as a means of control by those in power. As a state situated directly on the Mexico-US border we deal with racially infused situations on a daily basis. Right now the majority of Tucson is staunchly opposed to SB1070. At the last rally I attended where over 3,000 opponents marched in support of those who do not appear "white" only a dozen or so in favor of SB1070 turned out to voice their opinion. Tucson is vehement in its opposition and I would challenge anyone who thinks otherwise. Local business as well as many corporately owned organizations have come forward in a unified stance against 1070. Signs stating "we do not support hate" with a large SB1070 x'ed out are in nearly every window of every store in town. Even the Tucson Police Department has declared their opposition by refusing to ask for anyone's papers based on 1070's "probable cause" mandate.

Brewer is a complete idiot and I refuse to even discuss her policies because she bases and reinforces them from a place of fear and hate...two things I have zero tolerance for...empathy for the person who embodies their attributes, but not tolerance of. The sheriff has proven mental health issues and should not be in office, but has his hands in the pockets of Big Money and also has a large following of fear mongers who are at his beck and call. I have met Jesse Kelly and the man has not a properly firing neuron in his brain.

As someone earlier stated, AZ is not "my" state, it just happens to be the state I currently live in. Just as I have also lived in NY, California and Arkansas and will hopefully live somewhere on the west coast again in a few years. I do not adopt the mentality spewed forth by our current legislature nor does the majority of the town I live in. Do I support a boycott by the rest of my country/continent/planet...hell ya! We all will feel the inevitable pocketbook pinch but for the most part, we can take it. Standing idly by looking naive and confused or loading up your house with guns and surrounding your property with barbed is your right...but it is not how I choose to live. This state was inhabited by my brown friends long before you or I got here, and I for one am appalled at how these so called "border negotiations" have further ostracized and disenfranchised the AZ/Mexico populous from one another. SB1070 is not the answer and is not supported by Tucson, AZ. Boycott away!